Deities in LFR for Divine Classes.

90 posts / 0 new
Last post
All of my characters worship non-standard deities too - Illmater and Waukeen for my divine PCs and a wide variety of other deities for the others (including Berronar Truesilver - based on her travels my PC is starting to think she's the only worshipper in the world).  It'd just be nice if worshippers of non-PHB equivalent or high-profile deities got fun toys to play with like everyone else does.  Smile

Lori Anderson

WotC Freelancer, LFR author

@LittleLorika

 

Dragon Magazine #412: Unearthed Arcana: Ships in Your Campaign

Calimshan Adventures (LFR): CALI3-3, CALI4-1, and QUES4-1

Epic Adventures (LFR): EPIC5-1 and EPIC5-3

Other LFR Adventures: NETH4-1, ADCP5-2, and MYTH6-3

 

 

 

 

I have two Divine worshipers of  Tempus, neither has Righteous Rage *shrug* I like the god, I have other uses for feats and the cookie cutter is boring =P
Blah blah blah
Does the worship of Tempus really dominate the campaign? If I count the deities amongst the players I game regularly with Tymora, Kelemvor and Selune dominate with one or two divine PCs of Sune and Illmater. I only know one paladin of Tempus and no cleric in that group.
Let there be no doubt that all those pale next to the shining malevole..err magnificence that are Bahamat and Tiamut..

Honestly I don't see that may Tempus people either in my region of play (i.e. the Netherlands), but when abroad I see them pop up an awful lot. I guess your mileage will be varied but linked to the rarity of optimizers in your playing circle.  From the pure damage perspective Tempus rules supreme (well if there are undead involved, Kelemvor chimes in loudly).

A Dragon article that would put some more focus on the lesser known Realms deities could only help create more diversity, and be a fun read. And if such an article came with some of the crunchy bits some crave we might even see non-fullblade martial style paladins . But I for one don't truly feel crunch is needed.

Reality is just a continuous stream of failed pereption checks, the dragons are real!

Around here... you'd be hard pressed to find a divine character that wasn't a Tempuran with RRoT.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Around here... you'd be hard pressed to find a divine character that wasn't a Tempuran with RRoT.

In my region, Tempus is a dying fad, and Amaunator is the new diety of the week.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

The majority of players in my area who play divine characters stick mostly to obvious racial/class deities. Most Dwarf Cleric/Paladin/Avengers worship Moradin. Dragonborn worship Bahamut, etc etc. There is actually a balance between Divine RRoT players and non-optimizers.
Dragonborn worship Bahamut, etc



Except that in FR, that is NOT the logical race/deity combo.
Except that in FR, that is NOT the logical race/deity combo.



Exactly.  I suspect that most of the players of Bahamut-worshipping dragonborn in LFR don't have the FR books, or haven't done much research into the Realms-specific history of the dragonborn.  (Since, if you assume the core "fluff" is applicable to the Realms, as well, then Bahamut is a perfectly reasonable choice.)
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
I will bring up the Platinum Cadre in TYMA adventures as a reason that some players will consider this to be a reasonable and common thing to do.

Don't blame the players for breaking "continuity/background" when the background does it too. ;-P
I will bring up the Platinum Cadre in TYMA adventures as a reason that some players will consider this to be a reasonable and common thing to do.

Don't blame the players for breaking "continuity/background" when the background does it too. ;-P



Yes.  There is even a sidebar about the Platinum Cadre in the FRCG.  So a dragonborn worshipping Bahamut is PERFECTLY LOGICAL from someone who has the FR books... 

But I suspect most people who do such a thing don't do it for that reason, they do it because Bahamut is awesome, and they played a lot of Final Fantasy.
Don't blame the players for breaking "continuity/background" when the background does it too.

This.  I dislike it when players are obviously playing D&D characters instead of FR characters, but it's tough to blame them when adventure authors do the name.

If you see adventures with dragonborn who worship Bahamut, eladrin who call themselves eladrin (and don't know if they're moon or sun elves), shadar-kai who serve Kelemvor and tieflings who reference Bael Turath, it's natural for a players to assume that this is what they're supposed to do.

And yes, of course, there are characters about whom those things are true even in canon (well, maybe not the last one), but if all the campaign presents are the aberrations, you can't blame players for thinking that this is the norm.  If all you see is good drow, then as far as you're concerned, all drow are good.
  If all you see is good drow, then as far as you're concerned, all drow are good.



But in the modern (current) FR good Drow are a dime a dozen =) they are not the oddity they were 101 years ago.
Blah blah blah
I will bring up the Platinum Cadre in TYMA adventures as a reason that some players will consider this to be a reasonable and common thing to do.

Don't blame the players for breaking "continuity/background" when the background does it too. ;-P



Yes.  There is even a sidebar about the Platinum Cadre in the FRCG.  So a dragonborn worshipping Bahamut is PERFECTLY LOGICAL from someone who has the FR books... 



To an extent.  The Platinum Cadre is an extremely small portion of the Dragoborn population and the rest of them think they're nuts.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Hey adventurers are a extremely small portion of the realms population and the rest of them think they're nuts.
 
Additional thoughts

Ok there are exceptions to every rule and in the realms all player characters are exceptional.  As a LFR DM I have not committed every facet of the players and campaign guide to memory and run as best I can.  I have seen a lot of Dragonborn Paladins and not seen how exceptional any dragonborn paladin is in realms terms.

Living forgotten realms where I am is run as an introduction to DnD and fourth ed more than an introduction to the realms.  As such my focus at first is on ensuring a good grasp of the rules than bringing them up to speed on realms lore.  Of course it doesnt help if I'm not up to speed either.

Please bear with those of us who are not quite so familiar with backgrounds as you are.  When so0meone points out a flaw in my characters worldview and the background I can rarely take it on board straight away.  However I will think about it and try and mesh it in next time I'm at a game.
Calimoakheart on RPGTableOnline
To be fair, not all the Writing Directors and authors were well versed in the Forgotten Realms, AND initially there was encouragement to write a good D&D adventure as primary emphasis, with the Realms unique parts as secondary.  Different Writing Directors interpreted that encouragement in different ways.  Yes, I try to insert when I see eladrin whether it is a moon or sun elf (in rare cases, it is neither), but I have to be careful to not confuse the DM.

Keith
Keith Hoffman LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
I would like to take this opportunity to once express my intense displeasure at the editorial decision to kill off 80% of the Forgotten Realms deities with the new edition.

One of the Realm's nice features was it's wild diversity of worship.

"Simpler" is not always "better".




-karma

LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard | Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard | Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric

AL Character: Talia Ko'bori Silverwane - Tiefling Tome Fiend Warlock

Not all deities got killed off though. Some became archfey or primordials.
Or aspects of other Gods.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
It should be noted that we have been specifically been asked to call eladrin eladrin and not sun and/or moon elfs. The request has been made to prevent confusion with the new players.
Eh, wasn't talking about those deities.

Most of the Drow, Dwarf, monster pantheons. A lot of the Elf, Gnome, & Halfling pantheons. Many of the Human lesser & intermediate deities. Either explicitly spelled out as dead or not mentioned in 4E at all.

Mystra, though, I'm actually kinda expecting to return as a major plot somewhere down the line.



-np

LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard | Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard | Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric

AL Character: Talia Ko'bori Silverwane - Tiefling Tome Fiend Warlock

Mystra returning is really unlikely.
Except that's her schtick.

She keeps dying and a new deity rises and assumes her name and post, usually an ascended mortal.



-np

LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard | Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard | Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric

AL Character: Talia Ko'bori Silverwane - Tiefling Tome Fiend Warlock

If R&D had wanted her reincarnbatedm they would have already done so.
The signal I received is that they do not want any dead gods back.
Some words about Mystra from DALE2-1 "Forever"

Show

About Mystra (“Will Mystra return?”): Some say there is life after death. But for gods? For us? Who can say? I can feel that Mystra will not be back. I am the last of the old ways. The last of the Weave. Soon, I will die, and then it will be all gone. Forever.


Of course, who can say?
Well, the name of the adventure had to feature somewhere...
Around here, we have one or two Tempus worshipping PCs, a handful of Pelor/Amunator, a couple of Garl Glittergold priests (all leader types), and quite a few Beronar Truesilver (some of which, believe it or not, chose that god because it just 'sounded awesome when you say it out loud'). We had a dragonborn worshipper of Bahamut, but she changed it after several disagreements about exactly how it is pronounced - she now worships Kelemvor.
Now, people may question Kelemvor's sexual preference, but calling him a queen is just not okay.  Especially by one of his "worshippers."  It just shows a lack of respect if nothing else.
she now worships the Raven Queen.



I think you mean she now worships Kelemvor.  The Raven Queen does not exist in the Forgotten Realms.  (although as a Kelemvor worshipper you can qualify to take feats/PPs/Etc. that require RQ worship as a pre-req)
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
LOL good catch, I fixed that. I'm used to her telling everyone she worships the Raven Queen. Can't wait to tell her she's mispronouncing her deity again. Innocent
Just tell her it's Gaelic or Old English.  Those are never pronounced the way they look.  "I know it's spelled R-A-V-E-N Q-U-E-E-N, but it's pronounced Kelemvor."

(I remember a building in town that had a sign that said: Cholomely (pronounced Chumley))
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
"I know it's spelled R-A-V-E-N Q-U-E-E-N, but it's pronounced Kelemvor."



Or, alternately, "Throat-Warbler Mangrove".  Wink
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
No.  You are not a God, Kenobi.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
I still find that despite only having a fraction of the published history and background that Kelemvor had, the Raven Queen still seems like a more interesting character than 'ol boring Kelemvor ever was.

I mean, seriously, even when he was mortal Kel was boring. He had little personality beyond grim emoness. He didn't really even want the job of death god.

The Raven Queen at least shows some enthusiasm.




-karma

LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard | Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard | Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric

AL Character: Talia Ko'bori Silverwane - Tiefling Tome Fiend Warlock

No.  You are not a God, Kenobi.



But...I was once advised, if anyone asked if I was a god, I should say "yes". Laughing
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
No.  You are not a God, Kenobi.



But...I was once advised, if anyone asked if I was a god, I should say "yes".



Well, if some glitzed up 80's rocker chick deity ever asks you that, then be my guest.  Just watch out for the marsh mallow golem.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
I mean, seriously, even when he was mortal Kel was boring. He had little personality beyond grim emoness. He didn't really even want the job of death god.



Well, it may be just me, but I thinkw e have enough over-enthusaistic deities, killing each other off.
We don't need another one. Raven Queen is just too trigger happy (having killed off Nerull and Kala).
Kelemvor is fine being a Big Sulker. Though I guess we can add some depth to him... what happens to the souls of dead gods? What if he is eternally watching over Mystra's soul drifting aimlessly thorugh his place - hardly aware of her surroundings, unable tot return his love for her?

Gomez
The Raven Queen killed Nerull?!  Lame.
The Raven Queen killed Nerull?!  Lame.



Are you a Greyhawk fan?
Kinda.  I started playing with 1st edition and the old-school greyhawk gods.  I always thought Nerull was cool, and it bothers me that they killed off a classic deity to fit in a newbie and make her seem stronger.
Sign In to post comments