FINAL ABILITY SCORESStr 10, Con 18, Dex 13, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 8.
STARTING ABILITY SCORESStr 10, Con 15, Dex 13, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 8.
AC: 28 Fort: 17 Reflex: 20 Will: 16HP: 56 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 14
TRAINED SKILLSEndurance +12, History +15, Arcana +13
UNTRAINED SKILLSAcrobatics +4, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Dungeoneering +3, Heal +3, Insight +3, Intimidate +2, Nature +3, Perception +3, Religion +8, Stealth +4, Streetwise +2, Thievery +4, Athletics +3
FEATSLevel 1: Hybrid TalentLevel 2: Weapon Proficiency (Spiked shield)Level 4: Mark of WardingLevel 6: Improved Swordmage Warding
POWERSHybrid at-will 1: Static ShockHybrid at-will 1: Sword BurstHybrid encounter 1: Burning WeaponsHybrid daily 1: Punishing EyeHybrid utility 2: Channeling ShieldHybrid encounter 3: Transposing LungeHybrid daily 5: Swordmage Shielding FireHybrid utility 6: Regeneration Infusion
ITEMSMagic Leather Armor +2, Boots of the Fencing Master (heroic tier), Rhythm Blade Spiked shield +2, Aegis Blade Longsword +1 (2)
In your opinion and why? Please include builds.
@ Obsid10 Base5 Int mod3 half level2 leather2 enhancement1 fencing boots3 swordmage warding1 improved swordmage warding27 total AC unless I'm missing somethingYou don't get a shield bonus from the spiked shield since you're not proficient with light shields, and since rhythm blade says your shield bonus increases by 1, you lose out on that too.
There's one problem with that. True, using the fullblade as an implement one handed is fine, but you wouldn't gain your warding benefit from it unless you hold it 2 handed. To do otherwise wouldn't actually be wielding it, even if used as an implement.
There's one problem with that. True, using the fullblade as an implement one handed is fine, but you wouldn't gain your warding benefit from it unless you hold it 2 handed. To do otherwise wouldn't actually be wielding it, even if used as an implement.Holding an implement in one hand and wielding it are two different things. Dual Implement Spellcaster would be an example denoting the difference. You're mistaking it for the former.A mage wields his quarterstaff in two hands to attack as a weapon, and wields it as a staff implement in one hand to cast spells. It is a free action to switch between and Swordmages can do the same. Swordmage Warding's RAW states that you must wield a heavy blade, but does not require it be wielded as a weapon. As a corollary, a dagger does not stop being a dagger if a Sorcerer uses it to cast spells, hence a Sorcerer/Daggermaster can still crit on an 18-20 with her spells cast through her dagger. The same can be said of Swordmages - the blade is still being wielded. It's an interpretation that's been backed up by Dragon Magazine articles and Customer Service queries (for what it's worth, then again they are RPGA legal sources).@obsidAha, I had a hunch I was forgetting something. Resistive formula is indeed very powerful.
It only requires proficiency to get the bonus (at least RAW), I am proficent with a spiked shield (through the weapon proficency), and therefore get the shield bonus. If you disagree, just swap out improved swordmage warding for light shield prof, and lose a point of AC. You also forgot to count resistive formula and the +1 from mark of warding to resistive formula (I didnt count shifting with the boots, as its not a perm bonus).
A Str/Cha Paladin can have a Divine Challenge that at times cannot be ignored. I say balanced and not strickly CHa or Str defenders because the primary Divine Challenge with Mighty Challenge will stack the base damage with Cha and Str. Divine Sanction is also very potent when Paladin's multi-mark. Unlike other defender marks the Paladin Challenge or Sanction is a No Action once per round, per mark. If a Paladin sanctions 5 enemies and all decide not to attack the paladin, they all take damage once they commit to the attack. This is an advantage over a Fighter who can only punish one marked target per round. However, this does say a Paladin's immediate action for utility powers and some daily attack powers which only add to their defender role.
AC: 28 Fort: 17 Reflex: 20 Will: 16
Level 1: Hybrid TalentLevel 2: Weapon Proficiency (Spiked shield)Level 4: Mark of WardingLevel 6: Improved Swordmage Warding
I always root for the Fighter, because I'm an athiest. I'd rather play something that doesn't make me role play religion, but the fighter features always end up a mix of defense/offense. I like my defender to be DEFENDERS. 1. Paladin- mark dmg is 100% accurate- mark dmg can be dealt at range, wardens and fighters only ever get reach 2- mark dmg does not use an action, so if you mark 5 enemies, you can use mark dmg on 5 enemies, Fighters and Wardens only ever triggers once per round- mark dmg is radiantAlso, preferred paragon path is Hospitaler, so now Divine Challenge heals the attacked ally. This furthers discourages the montser from attacking allies.Purely on a basis of aggro, the paladin is hard to argue with, but what about defense?- start with Plate and +1 to all defenses- great feat selection. Honored Foes brings in a steady flow of temp HP, Virtuousy recovery gives you resistance. Some nice exclusive options for defenseAlso, Lay of hands isn't truly a defensive power, but it keeps you alive all the same.My Defender Opt philosophy is that you want to stack Aggro and Defense as high as you can. For example, when picking feats you can use a pattern of agrro feat, defense feat, agrro feat...1. Mark of Warding2. Toughness4. Astral fire6. Virtuous recoveryThen you have a back and forth between aggro and defense management. You need both to do your job. Its important to remember that doing dmg on your turn isn't aggro. Monsters don't really care whether you did 20 or 30 dmg with your encounter powers. What counts is how much punishment you can do with your mark.More Often. Mark Hard.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
1. Paladin- mark dmg is 100% accurate- mark dmg can be dealt at range, wardens and fighters only ever get reach 2- mark dmg does not use an action, so if you mark 5 enemies, you can use mark dmg on 5 enemies, Fighters and Wardens only ever triggers once per round- mark dmg is radiant
@Plaguescarred on twitter
I don't know... my Polearm Master can use Combat Challenge at reach.
Though this Feature uses an Immediate Interrupt to make an MBA, it's not Combat Challenge how similar it can be. Many Feats can benefit CC that wound't work with Longarm Grasp. Difference here.Normally that's how Fighters and Wardens work but different Options out there can alter how they work or mimic certain aspect of them. So i just was saying how they generally work.
I don't know... sounds like Combat Challenge to me, just reflavored. Except I don't do all that silly stuff. Just immobilize them.Pinning Challenge. A real defender feat.
I'd go Fighter as the best Defender. Lot's of Options around, and sticky to the max. Defender do their business on threats of punishments and Fighter do well at this, limiting your choices or increasing their risk. Not the best for Multi-Marks, but overall on top of my Defender's List.1. Paladin- mark dmg is 100% accurate- mark dmg can be dealt at range, wardens and fighters only ever get reach 2- mark dmg does not use an action, so if you mark 5 enemies, you can use mark dmg on 5 enemies, Fighters and Wardens only ever triggers once per round- mark dmg is radiantI am not too sure the bold part is right unless i didn't understand what you said. In some cases, it will be up their Reach, which isn't necessarly topped at 2 with the different options out there.Warden do normally Mark adjacent target only, using Nature's Wrath, but the punishment it will trigger will be wether up to it's Reach for Warden's Fury or up to 5 squares away for Warden's Grasp.Fighters do normally Mark up to their Reach depending on the attack they'll use since they can Mark on every attack they make. But the punishment it will Trigger, Combat Challenge, only trigger by adjacent Marked enemy.
Swordmage as for as I know can only apply their cool mark power to 1 enemy, which makes them like paladins without Divine Sanction. Swordmages seem to need a divine sanctionish ability to catch up to the other 3.
1. Shielding Swordmage (best mark, good options)2. Fighter (decently sticky, high damage, easy to abuse polearms)3. Chaladin (sanctions)4. Warden (extremely sticky, but low damage)5. Assault Swordmage (good damage, bad at protecting)6. Ensnaring swordmage (at least it's sort of sticky)7. Straladin (weak sanction, but at least it can be decently built for damage)
Best = most fun.Overpowered is not fun. It usually means less fun for the DM and other players. Even if they're on board and enjoy you playing an overpowered PC, it usually means the DM is throwing tougher monsters at the party - which rockets them through the levels much faster than they should. The better the PC, the less time you get to enjoy them.Instead, I look for PCs that are the most fun to play. What makes a PC fun to play? 1.) Dynamic. A dynamic PC is a PC that gets to do different things and can bring a bunch of different approaches to solving problems. Their powers each feel different, and do different things. I like a PC that fills their role, but can contribute a bit to each of the other roles. Accordingly, a good defender to me needs to be able to offer a bit of control (minion sweeping, conditions), leadership (healing, making the other PCs more effective) and striking (high damage against solos, elites, etc...) while being a solid defneder (battlefield control, providing defense, etc...) A dynamic PC does these things through different abilities. They did a pretty good job with the fighter in making it dynamic, but it is less dynamic that the other defenders because it is hard to add these dynamic aspects without using magic as an explanation. The other defenders tend to have more dynamic powers because the designers were not limited in explaining the powers by the absence of supernatural explanaions.2.) Capable in non-combat aspects of the game. 4E combat is fun, but there is more to the game. I like PCs that can do things outside of combat to shape the direction of a game. PCs with the stealth to sneak around and spy are fun. PCs that can interact with the maffia in the big city are fun. PCs that can hob-nob with the social elite and play a role in politics are fun. To do these things, PCs need the right combination of skills and prime ability scores. I look for classes that tend to have high charisma, dexterity and wisdom and have access to the skills based on those ability scores. Right now, I rank the defenders as follows for non-combat base potential: Battlemind, Paladin, Fighter, Warden, Swordmage. Despite not being well suited to non-combat role playing, defenders can usually pick up a skill or two via multi-class feats or other techniques to give them the aspects they need to increase their role playing opportunities in a city setting, etc...3.) Appealing. In the end, the most important things to me is if the types of abilities that the PC has seem like fun to ME. Do you think teleporting is fun? If so, that certainly makes swordmage a solid choice. Is the nature gimmick your personal favorite? If so, warden. Do you like the idea of strong personalities and religion? Paladin works there.I think they're all good, but I'd say the defender I most want to try right now is a battlemind. They have interesting RPG opportunities built in, are not typical brutes with high strength and have intriguing powers... Perhaps a bit underpowered compared to the other defender classes (based on the limited amount we've seen), but interesting.
1. Fighter2. Swordmage at Paragon3. Avenger 4. Paladin5. Warden
1. Fighter2. Swordmage at Paragon3. Avenger 4. Paladin5. Warden I couldn't disagree more. Even if you hate wardens, a warden is 10x the defender that an avenger is. High hps, Good defenses (all not just ac), high surges (and things to do with them), consistant marks and penalties for ignoring them, and high threat are all equally as important. Avengers are flat out just not tanks.
The original core books said that this was our game too. It doesn't feel like that anymore.
I'm fairly certain the warden rankings aren't taking Wildblood Speed in to account.
The thread has already broken out fighter, paladin, and swordmage by build (or at least by primary stat). We might as well continue that trend and review the warden types separately, too. Combat Agility is... nice. But it's an immediate reaction to the wildblood's free action / immediate interrupt, and the warden can continue to take those free actions (if not the interrupt strike) so long as marked foes keep attacking his allies. That's damage and combat advantage against one foe, and combat advantage against a second. I'm not saying the wildblood warden competes with the paragon-and-up shielding swordmage for the top spot, but it surely does rate higher than its tough-as-stone-and-just-as-mobile CON-build brethren.