Simple questions from a noob.

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Hey, I am extremely new to Magic, but I believe I have grasped most of the basics. There are a few things that I am having trouble understanding, and I apologize ahead of time if I am just repeating someone else's question(s). I searched, but that does not mean I didn't miss something on the forums.

First question: Cards like "Jace, the Mind Sculptor," are used how? I noticed four different abilities with a different symbol and number next to each. Again, I know this is probably a simple question, but bare with me since I am not denying being a noob.

Second: When a (nonbasic) land card has an ability that says "Add 1(colorless) mana to your mana pool" does that mean just add 1 more mana to the mana you have from lands or does that mean add any color land to the field under your control? An example being the "Quicksand" land card. On that same note, does that card act as a colorless land just with the ability to add more mana or does the ability refer to the card being the equivalent of 1 land? Another example is "Everflowing Chalice" and the multikicker ability. The ability adds a charge counter for each time it was kicked, and for each charge counter on Everflowing Chalice your mana pool increases by 1 (colorless).

Also, is there a purpose behind the land card "Terramorphic Expanse"? I understood that it counted as a colorless land card, but I am sure I am very likely mistaken. If, by chance, I am correct, what would be the purpose of tapping and sacrificing it to just find another land card if Terramorphic Expanse already counted as a land card? I realize things end up getting more complex than this in many different games, but I am just trying to get a basic grasp of things for now.

Another land question: Lands such as "Celestial Colonnade" had the ability to add 1 white or 1 blue mana to your mana pool. Does this mean to add one white or one blue land card or is it just the equivalent of either a white or blue mana? By that I mean if, for example, I have a mono-black deck and I play this land card's ability, would I be given 1 mana (either white or blue) in which I could use to satisfy a white or blue mana cost? Or would I be required to have that specific color land in my library? I realize that it does not say "search your library," but I just want to be sure I understand correctly. This question also concerns land cards such as "Teetering Peaks" which taps and adds 1 red (mountain land) card to your mana pool. Again, does this require 1 mountain land from your library to count or is it sort of an "invisible" red mana such as creature tokens usually are (pre-creature token cards)?

One last land card question: Enchanted lands. When you use an enchantment card, such as "Guardian Zendikon" that enchants a land and turns it into a creature (in this case a creature with 2/6, defender, and is a white wall) can it be any land card regardless of whether it is yours or your opponents? Or regardless of the lands color(even though it becomes a white creature)? And when it says that "It's still a land" does that mean you can still tap it for mana? If so, once tapped for mana I would assume that it cannot defend on that turn, correct?

Again, I understand these are noob questions, but that is what I am. I would greatly appreciate any and all help from all Magic players willing to take their time to do so. Regardless, I appreciate all of those that did take the time to read this, and I thank you.

I know I have more questions to ask, but at the moment I, unfortunately, cannot think of them. As they come to me I'll be sure to post them here. Again, thank you to all who understand where I am coming from and take the time to help!

EDIT: So I just thought of another question as soon as I hit submit...

Deck questions: I understand that there are varying rules depending on whether we are talking about casual play or tournament, etc., but on an average what is the maximum or minimum amount of cards a deck should have? I have heard of minimums from 40 to 60 cards in a deck. I realize the more cards in a deck the less likely that deck will be consistent, but is there any other limitations to having more cards in a deck? Such as a maximum allowed? With that said, is there a limit to how many creatures, instants, sorcerys, etc. are allowed in the deck? For example: a 60 card deck cannot have more than X amount of creatures? Also, is there a limit to dupilcates? Like, you can only have 4 copies of the same card, or is that unlimited (so to speak) as well?
Hey, I am extremely new to Magic, but I believe I have grasped most of the basics. There are a few things that I am having trouble understanding, and I apologize ahead of time if I am just repeating someone else's question(s). I searched, but that does not mean I didn't miss something on the forums.

First question: Cards like "Jace, the Mind Sculptor," are used how? I noticed four different abilities with a different symbol and number next to each. Again, I know this is probably a simple question, but bare with me since I am not denying being a noob.

Planeswalkers use their abilities once per turn, any time you play a sorcery. The numbers next to each ability reflect the changes in loyalty counters (their life) and are the costs paid to use said abilities. Planeswalkers come into play with a number of counters equal to the number in the bottom right.

By sorcery speed it is meant on your turn, when the stack is empty (you can use Jace's ability to dig for card while there are other spells or abilities still on the stack).

Second: When a (nonbasic) land card has an ability that says "Add 1(colorless) mana to your mana pool" does that mean just add 1 more mana to the mana you have from lands or does that mean add any color land to the field under your control? An example being the "Quicksand" land card. On that same note, does that card act as a colorless land just with the ability to add more mana or does the ability refer to the card being the equivalent of 1 land? Another example is "Everflowing Chalice" and the multikicker ability. The ability adds a charge counter for each time it was kicked, and for each charge counter on Everflowing Chalice your mana pool increases by 1 (colorless).

Lands like quicksand tap for colorless mana in the same manner that a forest will tap for a green. Remember that colorless mana can only be used to pay for colorless costs.

Also, is there a purpose behind the land card "Terramorphic Expanse"? I understood that it counted as a colorless land card, but I am sure I am very likely mistaken. If, by chance, I am correct, what would be the purpose of tapping and sacrificing it to just find another land card if Terramorphic Expanse already counted as a land card? I realize things end up getting more complex than this in many different games, but I am just trying to get a basic grasp of things for now.

Terramorphic expanse does not have an intrinsic mana ability- it doesn't tap for mana. It is used to go and get out of your deck the type of basic land you want. Terramorphic can only get basic land.

Another land question: Lands such as "Celestial Colonnade" had the ability to add 1 white or 1 blue mana to your mana pool. Does this mean to add one white or one blue land card or is it just the equivalent of either a white or blue mana? By that I mean if, for example, I have a mono-black deck and I play this land card's ability, would I be given 1 mana (either white or blue) in which I could use to satisfy a white or blue mana cost? Or would I be required to have that specific color land in my library? I realize that it does not say "search your library," but I just want to be sure I understand correctly. This question also concerns land cards such as "Teetering Peaks" which taps and adds 1 red (mountain land) card to your mana pool. Again, does this require 1 mountain land from your library to count or is it sort of an "invisible" red mana such as creature tokens usually are (pre-creature token cards)?

Celestial colonade taps for either color. You choose when you tap. If you tap for blue you can't spend that to pay white costs.

I'm not sure what  you mean by invisible mana in respects to the teetering peaks. It taps as if it were a mountain, making 1 red.

Again, I understand these are noob questions, but that is what I am. I would greatly appreciate any and all help from all Magic players willing to take their time to do so. Regardless, I appreciate all of those that did take the time to read this, and I thank you.

I know I have more questions to ask, but at the moment I, unfortunately, cannot think of them. As they come to me I'll be sure to post them here. Again, thank you to all who understand where I am coming from and take the time to help!

EDIT: So I just thought of another question as soon as I hit submit...

Deck questions: I understand that there are varying rules depending on whether we are talking about casual play or tournament, etc., but on an average what is the maximum or minimum amount of cards a deck should have? I have heard of minimums from 40 to 60 cards in a deck. I realize the more cards in a deck the less likely that deck will be consistent, but is there any other limitations to having more cards in a deck? Such as a maximum allowed? With that said, is there a limit to how many creatures, instants, sorcerys, etc. are allowed in the deck? For example: a 60 card deck cannot have more than X amount of creatures? Also, is there a limit to dupilcates? Like, you can only have 4 copies of the same card, or is that unlimited (so to speak) as well?



60 cards is the minimum, and generall all decks should be 60 cards. It helps maintain the consistency of your deck. As for composition of your deck, thats up to you, so long as you only use up to 4 of any given card, except for basic lands and Relentless Rats,  of which you can have any number.

3DH4LIF3

1) Jace, the Mind Sculptor is a Planeswalker, therefore has it's own specific rules on how it is used. For info on how to use a Planeswalker see here.

2)First off, mana and lands are not the same. You see, by tapping a land, it produces mana. Mana is the invisible resource you use to pay for the spells you cast. The mana produced goes into a zone called the mana pool until it is used or the phase/step ends. You do not place a new land card onto the Battlefield. Lands also have no color regardless of the type of mana it produces.

Whenever a land says"t: Add 1 to your mana pool," it means it adds one colorless mana to your mana pool. Colorless mana can only be used to pay for colorless costs. For example, colorless mana can be used to pay for the 1 in Runeclaw Bear's mana cost, but not the Green mana.

3)Terramorphic Expanse is a land card, but it produces no mana when tapped. It's only purposes is to let you fetch a basic land of your choice from your library.

4)Celestial Colonnade can only add 1 white or 1 blue to your mana pool, no other colors. See answer 1 for other questions related to this.

5)For constructed Magic, a Deck must be at least 60 cards, no more than 4 of any card with the same name other than basic lands (Forest, Island, Mountain, Swamp, Plains). Other than that there is no maximum to the deck size, but you must be able to shuffle it without assistance.

In limited (Booster Drafts, and Sealed Deck) the minimum number of cards in a deck is 40. Other than that the rules are the same.
Ah, that does definitely answer a lot of my questions, thank you! Yeah, the "invisible" thing was a bad example, but what I meant was does it count for a specific colored mana type regardless of whether or not you have that specific card. Such as with creature tokens you, from what I understood, do not necessarily need a card for that creature, but rather any thing to represent that token creature could be used (coin, etc.). So in other words, I did not know if that turned the land card in question (colonnade) into that specific color or if it rather created one. But what you said does make sense, and if I am correct you explained that colonnade basically turned into whatever color I choose between the blue or the white options.

I did not realize colorless only counted for colorless costs, but that does make sense. In a case of a card costing (for example) 1 red and 3 colorless, I could use a colorless mana ONLY for the colorless cost and not the red, correct? But, I could use 3 of any basic land to pay for the 3 colorless cost as long as the 1 red is paid for with exactly 1 red, right?

I am still a little confused with the Planeswalkers cards, but I definitely have a better understanding now thanks to your help.

I understand where the terramorphic card would allow you to get a basic land card from your deck(any color I would assume), but I was just curious about the purpose of that when terramorphic already counted as land. I now understand the purpose, because as you said colorless can only pay colorless and I think terramorphic is a colorless. So if you needed a specific color it would basically allow you to replace terramorphic with that basic land color you chose from your library, right? That way you could use it to pay for specific costs (such as 1 mountain/red) or colorless, versus only being able to use it for colorless. Or am I wrong?

So quicksand can only count as a colorless mana, and the tap symbol means that it can be used as a land card which, when tapped, counts as colorless, correct?

So, concerning duplicates, no more than 4 unless you are talking about basic lands and relentless rats. That makes sense. I figured there had to be some limitations, but was not sure, and I had quite the time locating an answer.

Anyway, I GREATLY appreciate all of your help, despite how simple you may think it was! Thank you very much, and if I come up with more noob questions I'll be sure to post them here.
1) Jace, the Mind Sculptor is a Planeswalker, therefore has it's own specific rules on how it is used. For info on how to use a Planeswalker see here.

2)First off, mana and lands are not the same. You see, by tapping a land, it produces mana. Mana is the invisible resource you use to pay for the spells you cast. The mana produced goes into a zone called the mana pool until it is used or the phase/step ends. You do not place a new land card onto the Battlefield. Lands also have no color regardless of the type of mana it produces.

Whenever a land says"t: Add 1 to your mana pool," it means it adds one colorless mana to your mana pool. Colorless mana can only be used to pay for colorless costs. For example, colorless mana can be used to pay for the 1 in Runeclaw Bear's mana cost, but not the Green mana.

3)Terramorphic Expanse is a land card, but it produces no mana when tapped. It's only purposes is to let you fetch a basic land of your choice from your library.

4)Celestial Colonnade can only add 1 white or 1 blue to your mana pool, no other colors. See answer 1 for other questions related to this.

5)For constructed Magic, a Deck must be at least 60 cards, no more than 4 of any card with the same name other than basic lands (Forest, Island, Mountain, Swamp, Plains). Other than that there is no maximum to the deck size, but you must be able to shuffle it without assistance.

In limited (Booster Drafts, and Sealed Deck) the minimum number of cards in a deck is 40. Other than that the rules are the same.



Thank you for all of that as well. I apologize as I was writing my response about the same time as you posted yours. Nonetheless I will definitely check out the link for the planeswalkers article. Hopefully that will help fill in some of the stubborn blanks. Between your descriptions and niheloim's I think I will get the hang of this stuff soon. I definitely appreciate your time and help, and you have my many thanks!
Land is not mana; conversely, mana is not land.

Let's use this analogy: Lands are like batteries, and mana is like the energy that each battery can produce.

Basically lands are a physical representation of how much of the mana resource you can produce.

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One last land card question: Enchanted lands. When you use an enchantment card, such as "Guardian Zendikon" that enchants a land and turns it into a creature (in this case a creature with 2/6, defender, and is a white wall) can it be any land card regardless of whether it is yours or your opponents? Or regardless of the lands color(even though it becomes a white creature)? And when it says that "It's still a land" does that mean you can still tap it for mana? If so, once tapped for mana I would assume that it cannot block or attack on that turn, correct?



This is so far the only question that I still am unsure about the answer. Any insight on this would be most helpful and appreciated. Thank you all again!
Another good resource is the [thread=997093]Rules Q&A FAQ[/thread]. It actually has sections on all of the things you're asking about here--planeswalkers, lands, mana, and deck construction.

On your question about Auras: Yes, you can enchant any land with a Guardian Zendikon, even one of your opponent's. Look at the first line in its text--it says "Enchant land". That describes what it need to target as you cast it, and what it can legally be attached to. If it could only be attached to one of your own lands, it would say "Enchant land you control". If it could only be a specific type of land (like, say, a Plains), it would say something like "Enchant Plains".

"It's still a land" means just that. It's still a land, which means your opponent could Demolish or Stone Rain it. It's just also a creature, in the same way that something like Ornithopter is both an artifact and a creature at the same time. You can still tap the land for mana, because the Zendikon doesn't say it removes any abilities from the land. So it doesn't. And yes, tapped creatures cannot block.

One minor note, as well. Lands (all lands) are colorless unless something specifically says otherwise. A Plains is colorless, not white. A Mountain is colorless, not red. The color of a card is determined solely by the colors of the mana in its mana cost, and since lands have no mana cost, they therefore have no colors, and are colorless.


In future, please remember that rules questions are best placed in the Rules Q&A forum; they'll receive better answers than you would get elsewhere, and you'll usually get them faster to boot. I'll just get this thread moved to Rules Q&A for you now.

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Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

You got the basic idea of it, but keep in mind, when you tap a land for mana it does not change the color of the land. Lands never have a color unless an effect of another card says so. Also mana has no direct relation to specific land cards. Whenever you see a mana symbol in a text box, it is referring to 1 mana of the chosen color, not the basic land that produces it.

You are correct in how to pay for the colorless cost of a spell.

Terramorphic Expanse cannot produce mana on it's own. Only lands with the "Tap: Add x mana to your mana pool" or lands that have a basic land sub-type such as Underground Sea will produce mana, unless stated otherwise. Keep in mind though, although a land may have a basic land sub-type, it is not considered a basic land unless it has the super-type Basic [Compare Mountain with Madblind Mountain)

If you have anymore questions feel free to PM me, and I'll be happy to answer them to the best of my ability.
First off, thank you all for your time, patience, and thorough answers. I believe that I have learned quite a lot, and am much more comfortable with the concepts. With that said, I do not believe there is a need to forward this thread unless you feel there is or must do so. Obviously I am a forum noob as well. My point being, I believe the majority of my questions, if not all of them, have definitely been answered. If another question does arise I will be sure to refer to the sources provided, especially the Q&A section.

Thank you all again!
With that said, I do not believe there is a need to forward this thread unless you feel there is or must do so.

We tend towards moving threads even when their questions have already been answered--it tends to reduce instances of misplaced threads, since other new posters don't come in, see the threads, and think "Oh, if that person was asking these kinds of questions, this must be the place for that".

It's also possible that the answers in any given thread might have been inaccurate or lacking some important detail, and the folks who hang around RQ&A are the best judges of that kind of thing. (That's not the case here, but it does happen from time to time, generally in the less active forums.)

In any case, since you say you're new, welcome to the forums!

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Ah, that does definitely answer a lot of my questions, thank you! Yeah, the "invisible" thing was a bad example, but what I meant was does it count for a specific colored mana type regardless of whether or not you have that specific card. Such as with creature tokens you, from what I understood, do not necessarily need a card for that creature, but rather any thing to represent that token creature could be used (coin, etc.). So in other words, I did not know if that turned the land card in question (colonnade) into that specific color or if it rather created one. But what you said does make sense, and if I am correct you explained that colonnade basically turned into whatever color I choose between the blue or the white options.

I did not realize colorless only counted for colorless costs, but that does make sense. In a case of a card costing (for example) 1 red and 3 colorless, I could use a colorless mana ONLY for the colorless cost and not the red, correct? But, I could use 3 of any basic land to pay for the 3 colorless cost as long as the 1 red is paid for with exactly 1 red, right?

I understand where the terramorphic card would allow you to get a basic land card from your deck(any color I would assume), but I was just curious about the purpose of that when terramorphic already counted as land. I now understand the purpose, because as you said colorless can only pay colorless and I think terramorphic is a colorless. So if you needed a specific color it would basically allow you to replace terramorphic with that basic land color you chose from your library, right? That way you could use it to pay for specific costs (such as 1 mountain/red) or colorless, versus only being able to use it for colorless. Or am I wrong?

So quicksand can only count as a colorless mana, and the tap symbol means that it can be used as a land card which, when tapped, counts as colorless, correct?

It sounds like you might be having trouble with a mechanical aspect of the game.

Most lands tap for something. A forest taps for a single green mana. Tapping is how you show that you have used something. For example, I have a Llanowar Elves in my hand and a forest in play. I tap the forest (turn it 90 degrees sideways) to add a green mana to my mana pool (the 'invisible' place you hold onto your mana until you use it). Then I play my elf using the green that I added. Now, in the example, my mana pool would be empty. The forest I tapped is still tapped and cannot be used again that turn.

Now compare Terramorphic Expanse with Bant Panorama. Notice that the Bant Panorama can Tap for a colorless while the terramorphic only has the "Tap, Sacrifice" abilty.


I am still a little confused with the Planeswalkers cards, but I definitely have a better understanding now thanks to your help.

So, concerning duplicates, no more than 4 unless you are talking about basic lands and relentless rats. That makes sense. I figured there had to be some limitations, but was not sure, and I had quite the time locating an answer.

Anyway, I GREATLY appreciate all of your help, despite how simple you may think it was! Thank you very much, and if I come up with more noob questions I'll be sure to post them here.



Keep at it.

3DH4LIF3

Well, regardless thank you Zammm for your help, and welcome!

@niheloim:

I get it now. I was overlooking the fact that Terramorphic's tap ability was just that -- an ability. I was being dumb, but I understand it now. It gives no mana, it just lets you get a basic land from your library/deck. Versus some nonbasic land cards, such as Celestial Colonnade, can tap for mana of a specific color. In this case you have a choice of Celestial Colonnade acting as either 1 plains(tapped for white mana) OR 1 island (tapped for blue mana). It also has an ability, when the mana cost is satisfied, that allows it to be used as a creature. Which there is an obvious difference between using an ability(whether or not it requires to be tapped, which it does not in this case) and tapping it for mana. I believe I am on the right track -- or at least I hope I am.

While I'm on this example of the Celestial Colonnade, when you use it's ability to turn it into a creature, it is still a land type card, but does that mean it can still be tapped for mana or no? I know that it would be somewhat pointless to tap it for mana after making it a creature since it would defeat the purpose of giving it power/toughness, but I figure I've already asked dumb questions, what's one more? I would assume that once it is a creature, that is it. Yes, it is still of land type, but it no longer would be able to be tapped to produce mana, but I am sure that I am wrong somewhere.

While I'm on this example of the Celestial Colonnade, when you use it's ability to turn it into a creature, it is still a land type card, but does that mean it can still be tapped for mana or no? I know that it would be somewhat pointless to tap it for mana after making it a creature since it would defeat the purpose of giving it power/toughness, but I figure I've already asked dumb questions, what's one more? I would assume that once it is a creature, that is it. Yes, it is still of land type, but it no longer would be able to be tapped to produce mana, but I am sure that I am wrong somewhere.


Why would it not be able to be tapped for mana? It doesn't lose any abilities it had before. It still has the ability that's printed on it, though you're right that you wouldn't normally want to use that ability in a situation where you also want to animate the land.
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
That makes sense, it just seemed redundant, but there are quite a few options in which there would be some redundancy anyway. So obviously, unless the card description specifically states that an ability (or anything else for that matter) is removed, that ability still exists regardless. Cool, thanks!
That makes sense, it just seemed redundant, but there are quite a few options in which there would be some redundancy anyway. So obviously, unless the card description specifically states that an ability (or anything else for that matter) is removed, that ability still exists regardless. Cool, thanks!


Most of the time, that's true. There is one non-obvious exception to that, though, that I feel I should mention because it is somewhat related to the situations you've been asking about. If a land gains a basic land type (Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, Forest) and the effect that did this doesn't say it keeps its old type, this overwrites all abilities that card previously had. For example, if something turns Celestial Collonade into a Mountain, it can be tapped for red mana, but not blue or white, and it loses the ability to be animated. (However, if it's already animated at the time this happens, it will remain so for the remainder of that turn.)
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
Ah, that is tricky. I understand it, and it makes sense. Thank you for mentioning that because I had no idea. 

I had another basic question. I seem to come up with a new one the more I look through the different cards.

There are some cards, like Archon of Redemption, that heal the player when a certain "thing" has been met. The description, in Archon of Redemption's case, says "When Archon of Redemption or another creature with flying enters the battlefield under your control, you may gain life equal to that creature's power," so my question is more about the first part of the text. I understand that as long as Archon of Redemption is on the battlefield, anytime the controller of Archon plays a flying type or another Archon of Redemption that player gains life equal to that creature's power. I apologize for repeating myself, I am just trying to show that my confusion rather lays with the "When Archon of Redemption" part. Does this mean that the first Archon of Redemption you put into the battlefield, meaning there are no other Archon's on the battlefield under your control, still heals you? Or does it only activate for any Archon of Redemption (or any other flying creature) that you put on the field under your control AFTER the first one? I know this effect can take place multiple times due to the key word "Whenever," but like I said my confusion, and thus the epicenter of this question, pertains to whether or not you gain that health from the Archon of Redemption you JUST put into the field, as well as others afterwards, or ONLY the others afterwards.

Another example are a lot of the "Allies" type creatures. Most of them have some kind of counter that activates when another ally is put into play. Usually they have similar text to the Archon of Redemption one. "Oran-Rief Survivalist" is one that says "Whenever Oran-Rief Survivalist or another Ally enters the battlefield under your control, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Oran-Rief Survivalist." Again, does this only concern duplicates of Oran-Rief Survivalist or the one just played AS WELL as the duplicates that may show up in addition to other ally type creatures?

Hopefully I didn't make that question too confusing, but I apologize if I did. I have a horrible way of explaining things, but if that is the case I'll definitely try to make more sense of it.

Anyway, as always, I am in everyone's debt that has proven helpful. Which has literally been EVERYONE. So, thank you.
When a card mentions itself by name, it means "this card right here", not "cards that happen to be named the same as this one".

Read Archon of Redemption again like that: "When this card right here or another creature with flying..."

So yes, the first Archon does trigger on itself. (And the second one also triggers on itself as well.)

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Okay, cool. Thank you for clearing that up for me. I had just forgot to add something to my post so I did not see yours beforehand. I did not expect such a quick response, but again, thank you. I understand most of this stuff, it's just how some things are worded that make it somewhat tricky. Which I assume is the intention in some cases.
I have another quick question. I did not want to create another thread when I could post here, but I know this one is old. I don't know how all of that works, but sorry again if I'm making a mistake.

My question is about the Celestial Mantle card. If I play this card and attach it to a creature with lifelink, and that creature hits the opponent player with combat damage, which effect happens first; lifelink or Celestial Mantle?

Also, concerning Celestial Mantle, the way I read it was that basically as long as the creature it is attached to hits the opponent player with combat damage it doubles the controller's (owner of Creature that the mantle was attached to)life points. So I see it as, for example, say I have 10 LP and my opponent has 20. I hit them directly with a creature, that has Celestial Mantle attatched, and deal X damage to them. Their LP is dropped by X(X being whatever the power of the creature card in question would be at the time), and mine, assuming the creature card does not have lifelink, is doubled from 10 to 20. If I were to deal more combat damage to the opponent player with this creature and the mantle my LP were go from 20 to 40, and so on. Am I correct, or am I missing something?

Thank you in advance, and again I apologize if I am doing something wrong by sort of resuscitating this thread.
My question is about the Celestial Mantle card. If I play this card and attach it to a creature with lifelink, and that creature hits the opponent player with combat damage, which effect happens first; lifelink or Celestial Mantle?

Lifelink happens first.

As the creature deals damage, lifelink causes you to gain that much life. This happens immediately. A little later, celestial mantle's triggered ability is put on the stack, and then each player gets a chance to repsond to it, and then it resolves, doubling your life.
Also, concerning Celestial Mantle, the way I read it was that basically as long as the creature it is attached to hits the opponent player with combat damage it doubles the controller's (owner of Creature that the mantle was attached to)life points. So I see it as, for example, say I have 10 LP and my opponent has 20. I hit them directly with a creature, that has Celestial Mantle attatched, and deal X damage to them. Their LP is dropped by X(X being whatever the power of the creature card in question would be at the time), and mine, assuming the creature card does not have lifelink, is doubled from 10 to 20. If I were to deal more combat damage to the opponent player with this creature and the mantle my LP were go from 20 to 40, and so on. Am I correct, or am I missing something?

If the creature deals combat damage to an opponent multiple times, you will double your life multiple times. Usually, this means you can only double your life once per turn, since there is only one combat phase per turn.

Nice, thank you. That helps a lot. Celestial Mantle is an "Aura" type Enchantment, so that means it stays on the creature until that creature dies or that enchantment is removed by some other means, right? So, assuming you only had the one Celestial Mantle attached to one creature, you would only be able to double your life once per combat phase. Also assuming that your creature was actually able to deal combat damage to the opponent player directly, and no one killed or removed your creature beforehand. Hopefully I am on the right track.

I am curious about one thing. When you said it gets put on the stack, and each player gets a chance to respond, what means would those players have to interrupt an aura type enchantment other than removing the enchantment with an instant? I understand you may be able to kill the creature, or stop it from doing damage somehow, before the damage part of the combat phase, but we are talking about after the creature has already dealt damage, but just before Celestial Mantle's ability has activated. I am just curious about what there is out there to stop such a thing in this, and other, scenarios.

Thanks again for your help!

Nice, thank you. That helps a lot. Celestial Mantle is an "Aura" type Enchantment, so that means it stays on the creature until that creature dies or that enchantment is removed by some other means, right?

The aura can also "fall off" if something changes that makes it be illegally attached. For example, if the thing its attached to stops being a creature, then it is illegally attached (because it says "enchant creature"), and the aura is put into its owner's graveyard.
I am curious about one thing. When you said it gets put on the stack, and each player gets a chance to respond, what means would those players have to interrupt an aura type enchantment other than removing the enchantment with an instant?

There are many possible responses to celestial mantle's triggered ability. They can stifle the triggered ability so that it never resolves. They can point a Lightning Bolt at your face, so you will have less life available for doubling. They can play a False Cure and make you very sad. They can, if they want, mortify your enchantment or your creature, but that will not counter celestial mantle's triggered ability. 

So, assuming you only had the one Celestial Mantle attached to one creature, you would only be able to double your life once per combat phase. 


no, twice (a creature with Double Strike could hit once in each combat damage step of the combat phase)

@Cyphern: I know you already said this but the post following yours asked this question and your next response did not correct this misunderstanding so I posted it again to bring attention to it for the OP.

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Ah, cool, thank you both. I did forget about double strike, that does make sense. I knew there had to be multiple ways to mess with an enchantment, especially one such as Celestial Mantle, I just did not realize how many ways there were. I realize there are likely many more than what you posted, but you gave me the basic idea of the diversity of the possiblities. Lol @ "make you very sad." That would indeed be sad.

Again, thank you both. I'm sure I'll have more noob questions soon enough.
I have another dumb question. I am not sure how many cards have a similar triggered effect, but the Vampire Aristocrat's effect (gains +2/+2 until end of turn) is activated by sacrificing a creature. Now, to me I would assume the owner (and/or controller maybe?) is the one that would have to sacrifice the creature, but the reason I am not sure is because it does not say "a creature you control." On that same note, it also does not say anything about a creature your opponent controls, etc. Again, sacrifice being the keyword, it sounds to me the owner would be "sacrificing" in order to beef up the Vampire Aristocrat, but I have read other cards that said your opponent would have to "sacrifice" a card. Again, I think I know how this one goes, but I would rather be safe and sure. Thank you all in advance!
I have another dumb question. I am not sure how many cards have a similar triggered effect, but the Vampire Aristocrat's effect (gains +2/+2 until end of turn) is activated by sacrificing a creature. Now, to me I would assume the owner (and/or controller maybe?) is the one that would have to sacrifice the creature

The person who controls vampire aristocrat is the only player that can activate the ability, and the cost of doing so is for him to sacrifice one of his creatures.
but the reason I am not sure is because it does not say "a creature you control." On that same note, it also does not say anything about a creature your opponent controls, etc.

Stating the controller would be redundant. It is impossible to sacrifice something you do not control.
701.13a To sacrifice a permanent, its controller moves it from the battlefield directly to its owner's graveyard. A player can't sacrifice something that isn't a permanent, or something that's a permanent he or she doesn't control. Sacrificing a permanent doesn't destroy it, so regeneration or other effects that replace destruction can't affect this action.

That makes sense, and that is what I figured. I appreciate your help once again, but for the sake of clearing things up I did not mean for it to sound as if someone would be sacrificing a card that was not under their control. I meant a card that forced the opponent to sacrifice a card. Regardless, thank you again, and especially for a quick response.

One more thing that I just thought of. If someone enchanted a land with a Zendikon and had the Terra Eternal card on the field, would that mean that the Zendikon is indestructible as well considering it is still a land? At least until someone removes Terra Eternal of course. Or someone removes the Zendikon enchantment, which would not destroy the land (First, because it is only removing/destroying the enchantment anyway, and second because the land is indestructible), but just turn it back into a regular land rather than a creature. Am I on the right track?
One more thing that I just thought of. If someone enchanted a land with a Zendikon and had the Terra Eternal card on the field, would that mean that the Zendikon is indestructible as well considering it is still a land?

The zendikon is not a land, so terra eternal does not make it indestructible. Only the land is indestructible. If the zendikon is destroyed, the formerly-enchanted land ceases to be a creature.
Right, but the text that says "It's still a land." is a little misleading then.

EDIT: I am sure you have responded by the time I post this, but I tried, lol. Anyway, I know that "It's still a land." initially means it can still be tapped for mana, I am just saying that it still is misleading in the fact that it is still considered a land regardless.
Right, but the text that says "It's still a land." is a little misleading then.


Wind Zendikon says:
"Enchanted land is a 2/2 blue Elemental creature with flying. It's still a land."

"Enchanted land is ... still a land."

It never says that Wind Zendikon is a Land. ;)

~ Tim




I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)

EDIT: I am sure you have responded by the time I post this, but I tried, lol. Anyway, I know that "It's still a land." initially means it can still be tapped for mana


No, it doesn't mean this. It means "it retains the card type it originally had". Even without this, it would retains all his abilities - non-lands creatures can still produce mana, just ask Llanowar Elves.


 


One more thing that I just thought of. If someone enchanted a land with a Zendikon and had the Terra Eternal card on the field, would that mean that the Zendikon is indestructible as well considering it is still a land? At least until someone removes Terra Eternal of course. Or someone removes the Zendikon enchantment, which would not destroy the land (First, because it is only removing/destroying the enchantment anyway, and second because the land is indestructible), but just turn it back into a regular land rather than a creature. Am I on the right track?


I am just saying that it still is misleading in the fact that it is still considered a land regardless.


There are three permanents here. One is the enchantment - aura called ____ Zendikon. Another one is land enchanted by said aura. The third is the Terra Eternal. As Terra Eternal is white, let's assume the other are a Guardian Zendikon and a simple Plains.


The Guardian Zendikon itself is not a creature; it make the Plains a creature that's also a land. Terra Eternal make the Plains (that's a creature land - plains wall) indestructible, not the Zendikon (just an enchantment - aura).


When you say "the Zendikon", we understand you're talking about the enchantment, not the land, because that's the aura name.


 


* Guardian Zendikon is not indestructible. The Plains enchanted by it (Creature Land - Plains Wall 2/6 with Defender) is.
* Yes, destroying Guardian Zendikon doesn't destroy the Plains, with or without Terra Eternal in the field. It will just revert to a normal Plains.

[<o>]
@LMTRK That would makes sense, but, and I'm not trying to argue I am just trying to understand, the Wind Zendikon card I have does not say "Enchanted land is still a land," but rather in a separate sentence "It is still a land." So that is why I was confused, but if you are trying to say read it as "Enchanted land is still a land" that would be a little less contradicting to the card's text. Like I said, I am not trying to argue about this, I am just confused and want to make sure I am clear on the little details. Also, on that same note, I never intended for you to think I meant the Zendikon was considered a land, or was by any means indestructible. Lol, that was my missuse of words. I was only ever refering to the enchanted land being indestructible.

@will_dice Thank you for explaining that. Yes, what I meant to say was that the land is indestructible. I guess I said it wrong so that others were confused, I apologize. With that said, since the land is indestructible it cannot be destroyed without first destroying Terra Eternal, unless another card says otherwise, right? Meaning that the 2/6 White Wall - Plains Land Creature w/ Defender is indestructible, but obviously the enchantment (Named _____ Zendikon) can still be removed. Which is what I said earlier as well, but again I apparently was unclear with my explanation and I again apologize. Also, Terra Eternal could be removed or destroyed as well, which would leave all lands, including the enchanted land, vulnerable to being destroyed once again. So, my main question is that the land is what is used to block, not the enchantment, correct? If that is the case, and Terra Eternal is in play, and you block with the enchanted land, it cannot be destroyed by normal means, right? Normal means = normal combat damage, or any other damage to the land while Terra Eternal is in play and no other cards are able to remove/destroy the enchantments, etc..

Also, on the note of the Zendikon being destroyed: Right, the Zendikon enchantment is destroyed, but the plains reverts back to normal land, but if the enchanted land is destroyed (whether by combat damage, direct damage, or any other creature or land killer spells may be available) the enchantment is also destroyed, correct? This is assuming that Terra Eternal, or any other similar cards, are not in play. Meaning that the lands are vulnerable.

Hopefully I am on the right track, but regardless I appreciate the help. I'll try to be more careful when explaining my questions. This way I don't cause anymore mislead posts.
@LMTRK That would makes sense, but, and I'm not trying to argue I am just trying to understand, the Wind Zendikon card I have does not say "Enchanted land is still a land," but rather in a separate sentence "It is still a land."



The most recently mentioned noun, "Enchanted Land" is "It"

Level 1 Judge. Feel free to call me out on any errors. I'm only human, and am working to improve.

@will_dice Thank you for explaining that. Yes, what I meant to say was that the land is indestructible. I guess I said it wrong so that others were confused, I apologize. With that said, since the land is indestructible it cannot be destroyed without first destroying Terra Eternal, unless another card says otherwise, right? Meaning that the 2/6 White Wall - Plains Land Creature w/ Defender is indestructible, but obviously the enchantment (Named _____ Zendikon) can still be removed. Which is what I said earlier as well, but again I apparently was unclear with my explanation and I again apologize. Also, Terra Eternal could be removed or destroyed as well, which would leave all lands, including the enchanted land, vulnerable to being destroyed once again. So, my main question is that the land is what is used to block, not the enchantment, correct? If that is the case, and Terra Eternal is in play, and you block with the enchanted land, it cannot be destroyed by normal means, right? Normal means = normal combat damage, or any other damage to the land while Terra Eternal is in play and no other cards are able to remove/destroy the enchantments, etc..




Yes, it is the land that blocks. the enchantment is not a creature. So you are correct, the land cannot be destroyed due to destroy effects and lethal damage. though if the land creature has lethal damage marked on him and terra eternal leaves play, he will be sent to the graveyard
Level 1 Judge. Feel free to call me out on any errors. I'm only human, and am working to improve.
The most recently mentioned noun, "Enchanted Land" is "It"





Right, see that explanation, though simple, makes more sense. Thank you for that. That is not to say LMTRK's explanation did not make sense, because it did, but I am rather referring to the explanation given with the card. Again, I made the mistake of calling a land a Zendikon, when that was not what I intended, and now I have caused a confusion. Lol, again I apologize, but hopefully we have that cleared up now.



Also, thank you for letting me know I am on the right track. I am still a noob, and still learning a lot. Magic is not necessarily a simple game. There are a lot of different things that could happen at any moment, and almost every card can alter the rules. So it is hard to remember the basic rules, if I may, while also keeping up with the other alterations that some cards have on the rules, and so on.

Again, thank you everyone for your help. It has definitely been of great use to me, and every single one of your posts has taught me one thing or another. I am still a noob, but thanks to everyone's help I am slowly growing out of that...slowly. Lol.
I have one last noob question for the day, and it concerns Gomazoa. Gomazoa has an ability that requires it to tap to activate the ability.

"Put Gomazoa and each creature it's blocking on top of their onwers' libraries, then those players shuffle their libraries."

Being a noob, I only ever thought one creature could only block one attacker. From this is sounds as if Gomazoa can block more than one attacker. Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated, as always. Thank you in advance!
I have one last noob question for the day, and it concerns Gomazoa. Gomazoa has an ability that requires it to tap to activate the ability.

"Put Gomazoa and each creature it's blocking on top of their onwers' libraries, then those players shuffle their libraries."

Being a noob, I only ever thought one creature could only block one attacker. From this is sounds as if Gomazoa can block more than one attacker. Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated, as always. Thank you in advance!



Normally, a creature can only block one creature.  But, there a cards out there that can change this, so Gomazoa is worded to affect all creatures it is blocking, even though that will normally only be one.
 
I get it, it is sort of a "just in case" set of words in the event you have played a card that allows you, or at least Gomazoa, to block multiples. That was simple, and makes sense. Thank you!
I get it, it is sort of a "just in case" set of words in the event you have played a card that allows you, or at least Gomazoa, to block multiples. That was simple, and makes sense. Thank you!

You will find that a great many cards (especially the more recent ones) are carefully worded to use the generic form as much as possible, specifically so that they continue to work without needing endless reams of FAQs and rulings in cases where other effects might change the set of things they normally work on.
The trick is to remember that even though the general case admits the possible existence of such effects, it also covers the normal case, when such effects don't exist, and thereby does not automatically imply the current existence of such an effect.

tl;dr: Cards do exactly what they say* they do, no less and certainly no more.





*What they say should be read to include the proper expansions of keywords and the full rules implications of their current types and other characteristics.
ΦΦΦΦΦ
Cards do exactly what they say* they do, no less and certainly no more.



That is definitely a good thing to keep in mind. You really couldn't have said it better.