Dragon 384 - Class Acts: Avenger – Vengeful Traditions

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For Insiders Only!       Dragon 384
Class Acts: Avenger
Vengeful Traditions
By Robert J. Schwalb


The avenger lives to destroy his or her gods’ enemies and represents the divine interests in the world by the weapons each wields.  These zealots are the godsworn nemeses, and they represent some of the most ferocious and single-minded warriors known in the world and beyond.


The monastery defined your early life. You might have trained in a secluded temple, hidden high in the mountains as Moradin’s and Kord’s often are. Or perhaps your home was tucked away in a city, concealed by powerful wards so it blends in, unseen, such as Erathis’s monasteries sometimes are. How did you come to this monastery? What was life like for you? In what ways did you excel in your training? In what ways did you fall short?

Talk about this Dragon article here.


By Corellon's Light, I will avenge my fallen comrades!!



Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

IMAGE(http://images.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/user/marandahir/thumb/9ac5d970f3a59330212c73baffe4c556.png?v=90000)

A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

I really wonder what designers think when they make powers  for a striker class that doesn't use its striker feature. This is like the complete opposite of that avenger article a while back. You don't have rogue powers that specificly deny you sneak attack (heck, you get a bunch of powers that GRANT you sneak attack), or powers that go "oh you can't rage/quarry damage/curse/get your lock bonus with this attack". So why does the avenger get so many of these powers?

Also, effectively 1 feat and 3 powers, just vary depending on god.  Utilities are ok, but powers are not avenger powers. If they want to make a ranged implement divine striker, just go and make one and stop cluttering the avenger section of the CB, atleast these ones don't show up unless you take the feat, which only shows for your  deity.

If they want to make a ranged implement divine striker, just go and make one and stop cluttering the avenger section of the CB, atleast these ones don't show up unless you take the feat, which only shows for your  deity.


I can understand having a couple of ranged powers for Avengers, but yeah I have to agree, don't clutter Avengers with them. Make a new class if there's a need for a ranged divine striker.
I like the simplification for the leveled-up powers in the sidebars. It is something people would guess on, and is nice to have it as ruling.

(Ho, and the Eladrin Avenger is sexy!)
Actually Play'ng: Nothing. My old party is full of short-sighted racists and sexists (on their own admission), so I left.
Here I was excited that maybe we'd get something useful for my current main character. Instead I find myself staring at an article full of stuff that almost no Avenger in his right mind would use.

The only reason any Avenger would carry a bloody implement is to be easily identified as a person of a particular faith (has saved my character some trouble)

Either errata the oath to work on ranged attacks or start publishing powers that don't completely deny us the one thing Avengers truely have going for them.
It's almost as if these were originally some sort of pseudo-multiclass setup (Godsworn Nemesis) that allowed you to switch out powers ala Bravo et al. They just took out the power feats, and did some sidebar scaling.

There's what... 44 powers/feats in here? Big article.

Girl has a bent grip.
D&DNext: HTFU Edition
Well, it doesn't completely ruin the striker damage element for Commanding and Isolating Avengers.

It's only Pursuing Avengers that really can't benefit from ranged attacks, since they want to be as close as possible to their Oath of Enmity.

However, not having the rerolls on attacks is troubling.  It would be an easy fix to just allow rerolls on any one of these powers (thus working in Oath of Enmity's main effect into the ranged powers, since it doesn't stack with other rerolls). 

I'm going to mention something to this effect in the errata, since the Avenger who invests more in ranged attacks isn't rerolling enough right now.

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

IMAGE(http://images.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/user/marandahir/thumb/9ac5d970f3a59330212c73baffe4c556.png?v=90000)

A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

most people consider the oath of enmity the striker damage element of avengers.
Girl has a bent grip.


I've followed some of the Artists previous work and she's really good. For the most part the picture is nice fantasy, slightly cartoony, piece. But yeah the bent sword is a little jarring.

most people consider the oath of enmity the striker damage element of avengers.


Yeah WotC needs to clarify and support the Avenger's striker damage feature. They keep wanting to quash your Censure bonus but then they give us powers with no OoE rolls.
I'm going to mention something to this effect in the errata, since the Avenger who invests more in ranged attacks isn't rerolling enough right now.


Quoting myself

Strike of Perfect Beauty(D384,e3)


One ally does some extra damage. But you know, if you'd actually hit, you'd have done extra damage.



To be more precise in my language, the difference in expected damage between an avenger using this power and an avenger using a generic 2W encounter power is greater than the bonus damage given out by this power, and that bonus damage is contingent on someone else hitting.

Assuming I hit on a 10 with a weapon, and 11 with an Implement (implement one plus below the weapon)

Generic 2W power: 0.8*(2d12b2+4+1+2(misc))+0.09*(12+1*3.5+12-1d12b2) =~ 17.8
These powers: 0.5*(2d10+4+2)+0.05*(20-2d10) =~ 9

So, lose 8 points of expected damage to get a 55 percent chance of applying 4 damage.  Or, lose 8 points of expected damage to gain 2 points of expected damage.  That's an idiotic trade.

And yet that's a power I have to spend a feat to get, and also competes with Fury's Advance, or walking through walls before my 2W attack.

kthx, no.  Not even if I had a non-magical execution axe and a +2 holy symbol.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

The only reason any Avenger would carry a bloody implement is to be easily identified as a person of a particular faith (has saved my character some trouble)


Eh, some symbols have nice nice powers, and don't require you to use them as part of an attack to use the power.  Symbol of Victory comes to mind.  Pick up a +2 one when the cost of couch-change, and don't ever upgrade it.

(Along the same lines, +1 or +2 Spiked Gauntlets of <cool power> )

But attack with one?  Only if you love Bond of Censure.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

I like the simplification for the leveled-up powers in the sidebars. It is something people would guess on, and is nice to have it as ruling.

i wonder if and how will those get entered into CB, only as the lower level powers? same powers repeated at each appropriate level?
Eh, some symbols have nice nice powers, and don't require you to use them as part of an attack to use the power.  Symbol of Victory comes to mind.  Pick up a +2 one when the cost of couch-change, and don't ever upgrade it.

(Along the same lines, +1 or +2 Spiked Gauntlets of )

But attack with one?  Only if you love Bond of Censure.

And Temple of Brilliance ofcourse...

BTW, don't spiked gauntlets take up your hands slot? In that case I'd rather have Strikebacks...

I like the article. It may not be for min/maxers, but I am coming more and more to prefer articles which give us different themes and different ways to play the same class, not more efficient ways to play the same class. In this the article resembles the vistani articles or dusk elf articles of a few months ago, and I want to see more of them.
While I enjoy different themes and ways to play a character, an article that completely ignores the basic striker mechanic of a class doesn't just make it bad for min/maxers, it makes it bad for everyone. Encounters are generally built around people doing a specific amount of damage, and if you aren't using your striker feature, you aren't going to be pulling your weight.
I like the article. It may not be for min/maxers, but I am coming more and more to prefer articles which give us different themes and different ways to play the same class, not more efficient ways to play the same class. In this the article resembles the vistani articles or dusk elf articles of a few months ago, and I want to see more of them.

My problem is that nothing in the concept/fluff of this article necessitated the decision to make the powers ranged attacks and therefore unattractive. Even if the goal was to make an implement article this could have been done better by including a double roll clause or making them melee touch. That way the great concept would see more play...

Just have a "Special: this power can be used with Oath of Enmity if no one is adjacent to you" in these powers and they'd be perfect.  I like how the Godsworn feat gives you all 3 power swaps and a small entry bonus- nice touch.
While I enjoy different themes and ways to play a character, an article that completely ignores the basic striker mechanic of a class doesn't just make it bad for min/maxers, it makes it bad for everyone. Encounters are generally built around people doing a specific amount of damage, and if you aren't using your striker feature, you aren't going to be pulling your weight.



Some times, or I would dare say all times, it’s not mandatory to pull your weight... No one is going to say anything to you, if you play with good friends that enjoy the game for the general fun. You will have to play nice and not try suicide of course, but I don’t think a sane party member would tell you: " Omg Avenger, you do 10 less damage per turn than (*******) you are such a noob LP2!" Ohh, that reminds me of something...
If you are a Min/Maxer... Well, it’s your problem!


Tongue out

Nice article!