Arcane Slasher (410 DPR)

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Yea I'm also confused the the your feats, some don't exist in my character builder, and why would you use bastard swords when you have no prof with it and why get all fullblade feats?

Longsword feats don't exist to my knowledge?

It would be nice for you to post where your feats, more work i guess though but would be nice.

Also why do you end up using shortswords if you're going to have heavy blade feats?

Radiant Recovery doesn't exist?

I like the idea/concpet of this build, I want to play it, but currently half the feats don't make sense or exist in the chracter builder (lastest update April 2010).



Radiant Recovery comes from Dragon Magazine 374, page 50.
hmm i see.. not included in my builder for some reason.

Either way it's a shame cause the group i play with generally won't allow dragon magzine stuff, which sucks, but makes sense for our group's mindset.

I would again point out though I don't understand the point of your fullblade/heavy blade feats if every item you have is lightblade, or a shortsword.
hmm i see.. not included in my builder for some reason.

Either way it's a shame cause the group i play with generally won't allow dragon magzine stuff, which sucks, but makes sense for our group's mindset.

I would again point out though I don't understand the point of your fullblade/heavy blade feats if every item you have is lightblade, or a shortsword.



I'm not the original poster. I haven't even taken a look at what s/he says about weapon feats.

As for Dragon magazine, it is really an integral part of this edition rather than, as with 3.X, a separate entity in many respects. It is also much more balanced than it was before 4e, despite a few slip-ups (which are not that bad when you consider some of the power issues in the books).
"With winning races tieflings coming out, and the feats that are supposed to be in it, the race is very valuable: the epic feat that adds another slash effect (5+int/cha) and the feat that gives marked enemies vulerable 5 fire could both add tons of damage (fire is already included in the radiant one ablility). "  -  I don't understand what that poster refers to. As far as I know the last thiefling article revolved around feats and powers for breaking objects... "Gaze of Ruin" or something like that. Am I missing something here? Is there /another/ thiefling article or simply the rumored feats and powers (rumored where?) didn't make it to the final release?
"With winning races tieflings coming out, and the feats that are supposed to be in it, the race is very valuable: the epic feat that adds another slash effect (5+int/cha) and the feat that gives marked enemies vulerable 5 fire could both add tons of damage (fire is already included in the radiant one ablility). "  -  I don't understand what that poster refers to. As far as I know the last thiefling article revolved around feats and powers for breaking objects... "Gaze of Ruin" or something like that. Am I missing something here? Is there /another/ thiefling article or simply the rumored feats and powers (rumored where?) didn't make it to the final release?


51m6U-JH5JL._SS500_.jpg
Oops. Yeah, I meant Player's Handbook Races Tieflings.
I've read thru the thing and nothing not even the character builder gives any bonuses when using fullblade or even heavy blade feats for.. light weapons...
Jinu there are some discrepancies that have developed as the build has changed over time, I believe the current version takes light blade expertise (and focus?) and uses shadowrift shortswords to gain extra slashes on each hit
     The slasher is optimizing so rapidly that it's becoming difficult to accurately document.  It's like that moment in the monster movies where the mysterious organic substance begins to grow at an exponential rate and all the scientists in the lab can do is stare in horror as they murmur 'My god... what have we done?  What have we done...?'
(I employ zie/zie/zir as a gender-neutral counterpart to he/him/his. Just a heads-up.) Essentials definitely isn't for me as a player, and I feel that its design and implementation bear serious flaws which fill me with concern for the future of D&D, but I've come to the conclusion that it isn't going to destroy the game that I want to play. Indeed, I think that I could probably run a game for players using Essentials characters without it being much of a problem at all. Time will tell, I suppose.
I like the arcane slasher. It's awesome to move around and cause havoc just by moving.

But maybe it is time for a new thread. Arcane Slasher 2.0 or whatever. Cleaned up builds and new layout for the win.
I like the arcane slasher. It's awesome to move around and cause havoc just by moving.

But maybe it is time for a new thread. Arcane Slasher 2.0 or whatever. Cleaned up builds and new layout for the win.


There will probably be slasher errata in a few weeks so it would be better to wait.
I like the arcane slasher. It's awesome to move around and cause havoc just by moving.

But maybe it is time for a new thread. Arcane Slasher 2.0 or whatever. Cleaned up builds and new layout for the win.



There will probably be slasher errata in a few weeks so it would be better to wait.


What in particular is getting nerfed?
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I like the arcane slasher. It's awesome to move around and cause havoc just by moving.

But maybe it is time for a new thread. Arcane Slasher 2.0 or whatever. Cleaned up builds and new layout for the win.




There will probably be slasher errata in a few weeks so it would be better to wait.



What in particular is getting nerfed?



I do not know.  Greg Bilsland, a WOTC employee who works on the errata, was asking about slashers on twitter, which is a good indication that there will be errata that affects them.

twitter.com/gregbilsland/status/15287442...
twitter.com/gregbilsland/status/15288032...

I Always found problems with the updates and stuff simply because my group goes out and BUYS the books, and if certain things keep changing it sucks for some of us who even though we have the books wanna use some builds, but wouldn't exist or be allowed if we followed the books we have.

Bummer eh?
I Always found problems with the updates and stuff simply because my group goes out and BUYS the books, and if certain things keep changing it sucks for some of us who even though we have the books wanna use some builds, but wouldn't exist or be allowed if we followed the books we have.

Bummer eh?



There's nothing stopping you from using pre-errata versions of things.....if you intentionally want to make your play experience worse, you could also houserule that you have to pound a nail through your hand every time your character takes damage.


The point of errata is that Wizards is trying to make the game better over time.  If you disagree with the direction they take it (I have trouble believing that anyone would disagree with the concept of 'make the game better', but you could reasonably disagree with the execution), then unless you're playing LFR or Encounters, just don't use it.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
I Always found problems with the updates and stuff simply because my group goes out and BUYS the books, and if certain things keep changing it sucks for some of us who even though we have the books wanna use some builds, but wouldn't exist or be allowed if we followed the books we have.

Bummer eh?




There's nothing stopping you from using pre-errata versions of things.....if you intentionally want to make your play experience worse, you could also houserule that you have to pound a nail through your hand every time your character takes damage.


The point of errata is that Wizards is trying to make the game better over time.  If you disagree with the direction they take it (I have trouble believing that anyone would disagree with the concept of 'make the game better', but you could reasonably disagree with the execution), then unless you're playing LFR or Encounters, just don't use it.




"Make the game better" is an entirely subjective view.


What "Makes the game better" for one individual could suck the life out of it for another.


Yes, we can indeed simply ignore errata, but this does not prevent those of us who buy the books and pay a DDI subscription  from feeling a little annoyed when the are masses of changes made, rendering parts of the books we've paid good money for useless.


I understand that errata is sometimes necessary, but there have been a number of things that have been changed for what seem completely arbitrary reasons. Can you honestly sit there at your computer and tell me with a straight face that taking away leather armor from Avengers made the game better?


These things, as well as errata that nerf builds that require high levels and vast amount of investment, simply because they are possible, really grinds my gears, because although feat/power/item/feature X may well have been an integral part of Broken Build Y, the vast majority of players will not use it for such. But none the less, the change is made, making the books that little bit more useless and forcing us to either memorize the changed or carry around wads of notes.


As I have said before, I would not have an issue if there was the ability to ignore the changes in the CB, but there is not, and I am forced to use the errata material if I want to make use of the resource I pay for.


I am sorry if I came across as overly preachy, or whatever.


Wolf.

"Make the game better" is an entirely subjective view.

What "Makes the game better" for one individual could suck the life out of it for another.




Which is why I said you can ignore it if you disagree with their direction.

Yes, we can indeed simply ignore errata, but this does not prevent those of us who buy the books and pay a DDI subscription  from feeling a little annoyed when the are masses of changes made, rendering parts of the books we've paid good money for useless.



I disagree completely, 100%.  It is literally NOT POSSIBLE for me to disagree more with any statement than I disagree with this one.

 


I have a DDI subscription.  I buy the books.  I love errata.  In all of its forms, I enjoy it when things I buy are updated and continue to be supported for free after I paid for them.



I cannot understand why people dislike the concept.



I understand that errata is sometimes necessary, but there have been a number of things that have been changed for what seem completely arbitrary reasons. Can you honestly sit there at your computer and tell me with a straight face that taking away leather armor from Avengers made the game better?



Yes.  I can.  And I can also tell you that if you care, then give them leather.  Can you honestly sit there and tell me that taking leather away from avengers affected your game experience in any fashion significant enough to justify the sheer amount of whining that has occurred as a result of it?

These things, as well as errata that nerf builds that require high levels and vast amount of investment, simply because they are possible, really grinds my gears, because although feat/power/item/feature X may well have been an integral part of Broken Build Y, the vast majority of players will not use it for such. But none the less, the change is made, making the books that little bit more useless and forcing us to either memorize the changed or carry around wads of notes.



See above.  Quite frankly I think this is an insane objection; things that are too powerful should be changed, period.  I houserule nerfs onto things all the time, and I simply do not understand the position of DMs who refuse to change things that are clearly too powerful (outside of LFR/etc).

As I have said before, I would not have an issue if there was the ability to ignore the changes in the CB, but there is not, and I am forced to use the errata material if I want to make use of the resource I pay for.



The CB doesn't support my houserules either, but I don't expect it to.  Not using the errata is your houserule.  The fact that the dwarf swordmage in my campaign is actually an axemage (replace all instances of 'heavy blade' or 'light blade' with 'axe' in the swordmage class) is not supported by the CB.  And I don't expect it to.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.

You and I shall never agree, we're simply diametrically opposed in this regard and as such argument is futile.


Let's simply agree to disagree and move on.


Wolf.

ankiyavonwhat you said makes sense if you have first the time to keep up with every update, write it down, and keep EVERYONE else in your group(s) updated with your build. It isn't about you it becomes a problem for certain people you play with to accpet certain things, because, for example not everyone in my group has access to the errata's not keeps up with them, and most stick to the core books, some don't some do.

It's a matter of balance. I have no problems with "nerfing" updates, but this isn't a online game where everyone is equally updated, this is pen and paper, and even if I were to have the time to copy every single thing down and keep up with every update, I would then have to explain to the rest of my group and see if they AGREE.

Your argument stats you're own personal opinion. A lot of people would go as far as to say yes taking away leather armor from my avenger ruins the game concept for me. Yet another person in my group would disagree entirely, but since there are two sets of rules who decides what's right? It's get annoying and complicated to spend a bunch of cash to support D&D and yet have to do all these extra things in order to get a campgin or even during the campgin such as leveling/gear wise...

Just my 2 cents.

Anyway I just wanna know if this build will ever be fully updated.
Here's a sample build I compiled in a slap-dash manner: (Please note that some of the feats are house ruled as of yet because they're from the upcoming Tiefling book)

Hellfire Slasher


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======

Hellfire Slasher, level 30Tiefling,
Swordmage|Warlock, Long Night Scion, Radiant One
Swordmage Aegis (Hybrid): Aegis of Assault
Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Infernal Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Reflex
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade
)Hybrid Talent: Shadow Walk
Twofold Pact: Fey Pact
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Cold
Arcane Admixture Power: Eldritch Strike
Background: High Imaskar (High Imaskar Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORESStr 12, Con 13, Dex 12, Int 24, Wis 10, Cha 28.

STARTING ABILITY SCORESStr 10, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 18.

AC: 41 Fort: 32 Reflex: 41 Will: 41
HP: 171 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 42

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +27, History +27, Arcana +27

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +16, Bluff +26, Diplomacy +24, Dungeoneering +15, Endurance +16, Heal +15, Insight +15, Intimidate +24, Nature +15, Perception +15, Stealth +18, Streetwise +24, Thievery +16, Athletics +16

FEATS
Level 1: Imperious Majesty
Level 2: Arcane Familiar
Level 4: Versatile Expertise
Level 6: White Lotus Riposte
Level 8: Hybrid Talent
Level 10: Bloodied Boon
Level 11: Twofold Pact
Level 12: Lasting Frost
Level 14: Arcane Admixture
Level 16: White Lotus Master Riposte
Level 18: Blood of Levistus (Paragon)
Level 20: Secrets of Belial (Paragon) ---> Martial Supremacy
Level 21: Charging Aegis
Level 22: Warlock's Wrath
Level 24: Hellfire Blood
Level 26: Warding Curse
Level 28: Hell's Burning Mark (Epic)
Level 30: Hellfire Teleport (Epic)

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Sword Burst
Hybrid at-will 1: Eldritch Strike

Armathor's Step
Ethereal Sidestep
Aegis of Lost Souls
Giant's Might -> Martial Supremacy

ITEMS

Blade of the Eldritch Knight Longsword +3, Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (epic tier), Shadowrift Blade Short sword +3, Planestrider Boots (paragon tier), Eladrin Ring of Passage (paragon tier), Charger's Headdress (paragon tier), Gloves of Ice (epic tier), Iron Armbands of Power (epic tier), Ring of Free Time (epic tier), Belt of Breaching (paragon tier), Symbol of Divine Light +4, Tattoo of Vengeance (epic tier), Cloak of Translocation +6, Quickcurse Rod +1, Subtle Longsword +6, Dancing Longsword +4 (6), Subtle Dagger +6, Shadow Warlock Swordwing Armor +6, Battle Harness Swordwing Armor +6, Rod of Corruption +1, Rod of Starlight +5, Incisive Dagger +2====== 
 


Note: I'm not really sure if everything works as I imagine it. For example I don't know if I need an Arcane Familiar - can the Battle Harness simply substitute for its effect or is it a completely different way of working? I never really understood how does the Battle Harness work. Then again, do Radiant One lvl11 feature add fire/radiant keywords to my attack (and trigger Hellfire Blood for example)? From here the build could be tweaked either for pure DPR and record breaking or for actual play (cherry-picking the most useful feats for both offense and defense resulting in a better character overall but lowering the maximum damage a bit)


p.s. Please someone explain to me how to include those Hide/Show spoilers that expand on a click because I don't know how.

Removed the spaces:



[s b l o c k = hide things ]



hide things


I hid this.





[/s b l o c k]


 


And yes, Radiant One adds both the Radiant and Fire keyword, provided you have combat advantage.


So if you have combat advantage you gain +1 to hit and damage because the attack now has the Fire keyword.


 


Wolf.

Thanks, Wolf - the help is much appreciated. Cheers, mate --

Any time.


And as I forgot to say before, Arcane Hand Familiar  trumps Battle Harness. I think the only way you can use it in exactly the same way is to tie things to it, as the Battle Harness doesn't allow you to stow things for free like the Dismembered Hand, but you can drop it as a free action and then retrieve for free.


 


Wolf

This is probably a bit silly, but I (after my initial foray into the slasher with my Winter Stun-Lock build) have always ignored the slashers; anyway, I'm wondering if anyone could explain to me the DPR formula, as my initial look at Alpha's leaves me vaguely confused.

Primary things that confuse me:  The attacks hit/crit chances.  Why each attack in the sequence seems to trigger 4 slashes, regardless of hit/crit; the lack of exultant shadow step in the actual build.  What is 'ram' that adds +2 to hit on a charge?  The Charger's Headdress adds +1, but I don't see anything else (like Reckless Charge, etc)  Why does the build have 2 suits of +6 armor?

As a note, all of these things seem to be very clearly explained in the fluff above the build that outlines all the actions per turn; just the numbers don't seem to have actually have any link to the explanations.

For instance:  Main attack (+42 vs AC 44) could go one of two ways:
High Crit:
crit chance = 0.05 (crit before re-roll) + 0.95*0.05 (re-roll anything not a crit) =  9.75%
miss chance = 0.95*0.05 (re-roll anything not a crit) = 4.75%
hit chance = 85.5%
High Hit:
crit chance = 0.05 (crit before re-roll) + 0.05*0.05 (only re-roll a miss) = 5.25%
miss chance = 0.05*0.05 (only re-roll a miss) = 0.25%
hit chance = 94.5%

But quite clearly these aren't the numbers that Alpha is using.  Perhaps he's accounting for the possibility of missing all his attacks on the previous round, and so not having CA on the next round?  (Although that's a ridiculously low chance, assuming he goes the high hit route with Martial Supremacy) 

And as I forgot to say before, Arcane Hand Familiar  trumps Battle Harness. I think the only way you can use it in exactly the same way is to tie things to it, as the Battle Harness doesn't allow you to stow things for free like the Dismembered Hand, but you can drop it as a free action and then retrieve for free.


Wolf



Dropping it and stowing it in the battle harness are 2 different things.  Once retrieved from the battle harness as a free action you can thereafter drop it as a free action.  Provided it is attached to you, retrieving it would be a minor action as it is not stowed in the battle harness. 

Another way to get free draw/stow, provided you only need a few number of them / round, is through the fast hands skill power.  1/round as a free action you can draw or stow or pick up something as a free action.  That combined with a battle harness or a deep pocket cloak or a ruby scabbard might provide the quick draw you need.  This is a much more inexpensive way of getting the effect you desire.  If you need pure at-will free action draw and stow, there's nothing like the arcane famaliar.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
This is probably a bit silly, but I (after my initial foray into the slasher with my Winter Stun-Lock build) have always ignored the slashers; anyway, I'm wondering if anyone could explain to me the DPR formula, as my initial look at Alpha's leaves me vaguely confused.

Primary things that confuse me:  The attacks hit/crit chances.  Why each attack in the sequence seems to trigger 4 slashes, regardless of hit/crit


each shadowrift blade can be activated with a hit.  I believe that the 4*37 is usually only within a hit ( ...) and he does 4 slashes even when he doesn't hit he has his other actions that teleport.
; the lack of exultant shadow step in the actual build. 


True, but that only effects crit stuff, so he's wrong here.
What is 'ram' that adds +2 to hit on a charge?  The Charger's Headdress adds +1, but I don't see anything else (like Reckless Charge, etc) 


Charging gives you a base +1 to hit.  Tack on the Charger's headdress for the total of +2.
Why does the build have 2 suits of +6 armor?


I think he's using the battleharness wrongly.  In my previous post you must stow the item in the battle harness.  Perhaps with only 1 free stow / round he could pull it off assuming he has fast hands, which is trivial to get.


As a note, all of these things seem to be very clearly explained in the fluff above the build that outlines all the actions per turn; just the numbers don't seem to have actually have any link to the explanations.

For instance:  Main attack (+42 vs AC 44) could go one of two ways:
High Crit:
crit chance = 0.05 (crit before re-roll) + 0.95*0.05 (re-roll anything not a crit) =  9.75%
miss chance = 0.95*0.05 (re-roll anything not a crit) = 4.75%
hit chance = 85.5%
High Hit:
crit chance = 0.05 (crit before re-roll) + 0.05*0.05 (only re-roll a miss) = 5.25%
miss chance = 0.05*0.05 (only re-roll a miss) = 0.25%
hit chance = 94.5%

But quite clearly these aren't the numbers that Alpha is using.  Perhaps he's accounting for the possibility of missing all his attacks on the previous round, and so not having CA on the next round?  (Although that's a ridiculously low chance, assuming he goes the high hit route with Martial Supremacy) 


I think he's going Martial Supremacy route.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Oh! He's activating BOTH shadowrift blades, for a total of 4 slashes.  Got it.
And he's dropped exultant shadow step entirely, just not updated that part of the explanation.  OK.

Armor, I was just confused why bother with 2 suits; looks like that didn't make it into the shift slasher anyway, so no big deal there.. I'll just ignore it while I check the math, although I think he'll need to pick up a familiar.  (I think he might have a spare feat lying around, but that's not all that important right now.)

The charging/ram thing is wierd.  He lists +1 charge +2 ram - so he gets +3 when he charges.  I just don't know what the third +1 is from.  I think it's leftover from a previous build, but it will reduce his DPR (a very minute amount).

The hit/crit chances I posted already account for Martial Supremacy - but because you have to take the second roll even if it's lower, you can either aim for lots of hits, or lots of crits.  But his numbers seem to take the worst of both worlds, and so I think his hit/crit DPR should in fact be higher.

However, I'm looking over the shift slasher now, and with my new knowledge, I'll see if he's corrected things on the (presumably) more up to date build. 
The Battle Harness doesn't require the item to be stowed in it, only stowed. You could probably have a basket or something attached to your waist so that they fall into it if you rule that items attached to your belt are not stowed, or you could have some kind of counterweight to pull the items into sheaths.
I'd like to explore the progression of a slasher.
Obviously he doesn't achieve the awesome DPR until 21st but does get very good DPR at level 16, even the king's spot.  Thus at level 16+ we want all feats in place to be a slasher.

Before 16 I feel we have the capability of fulfilling other roles.  Striker is difficult with a warlock, but possible by choosing tiefling.  There are a plethora of feats to choose from, now that we can add the fire and radiant keyword on all our attacks with Radiant one's 21st level feature.  The trick is is there enough to be a full striker pre-16th level?

If we can't do that can we achieve a respectable defender (high con + swordmage can be respectable)?

What roles could be easily and fully fulfilled by a teifling swordmage | warlock?  I'm going to see if I can get my DM to let me have the teifling be a Con/Int race.  Perhaps I'll be swayed if there's enough feats to support a mediocre Cha.

We can see that a warlock | swordmage can be a defender and obviously a striker.  Is there enough in warlock pre-16th to support a controler, or are we spreading ourselves too thin?
All righty; I've worked out (most) of the kinks now.

I've 3 big glaring things left though:

Does anyone know how Alpha gets 13 slashes with the shift slasher per turn, regardless of attacks? (I get: 2 from move action, 2 from each attack due to mobile warrior = 8... but I don't know where the other 5 come from.)

Secondly, Alpha appears to have forgotten his own White Lotus Enervation with the shift slasher; given that he has phenomenal DPR without it, he effectively has a feat free.  Also note: The shift slasher has both the Battle Harness AND an Arcane Familiar, so no need to worry about drawing/stowing items.

Last: Alpha still seems to claim 3 slashes per hit with his shift slasher; except he only has 1 shadowrift blade, and he doesn't have exultant shadow step, so I only see him getting 2 slashes per hit.


Anyway, at the moment, ignoring all the things I seem to be missing the Shift Slasher is at a whopping 755/833 after milestone DPR; but if someone can point out how he gets the extra 5 slashes per turn +1 slash per hit, that will increase to a potential 1063/1140 after milestone DPR.

@Kulguy: Warlocks generally get all their control from their powers, and it's generally single target control.  Swordmages have a sprinkling of AoE control, also from their powers.  So you could probably get a moderate controller pre-16, although, in my opinion, very few controllers are particularly controller pre-paragon anyway. 
 I'm going to assume you're talking about the "cheesy" slasher here, rather than the shift or other versions.
Keep in mind that my bookkeeping has been a little sloppy, I've been meaning to clean everything up but since I got married I've found it difficult to work up the motivation to get it done.


Why each attack in the sequence seems to trigger 4 slashes, regardless of hit/crit


As borg said.
Shadowrift blade triggers a single teleport when you hit.  It is a free action power, so I can use two of them to trigger off the same hit.  Planestrider boots split that into 2 each, so that's 2 teleports from each shadowrift blade, for 4 teleports on a hit.

the lack of exultant shadow step in the actual build.


Ran out of feat space.  Two-weapon opening is far more valuable to the build anyway, as long as we're dual-wielding weapons.

What is 'ram' that adds +2 to hit on a charge?  The Charger's Headdress adds +1, but I don't see anything else (like Reckless Charge, etc)


The Charger's Headdress and Fleece of Renewal are both part of the Aspect of the Ram item set, which grants a +1 to charges when you have two items in the set.  So between the headdress and the set, that's a +2 bonus (which I labelled Ram).

Why does the build have 2 suits of +6 armor?


Two options that I never decided between.  It's really not terribly important, Fast Hands is trivial to obtain.  A better defensive option than Armor of Dark Deeds now may be Armor of Dark Majesty.  Good stuff.
* However, I have to dispute borg285 on one point: the Battle Harness doesn't require you to stow anything on the harness itself.  Indeed, there is no indication that you CAN stow anything on the harness.  The harness simply bestows the ability to freely draw anything that has been stowed or sheathed (anywhere, apparently).  If you count "hanging by a cord from my shoulderpads" as being stowed, that qualifies.  If not, then fast hands may be called for.  Or a hand familiar if you can find the feat-space.

As a note, all of these things seem to be very clearly explained in the fluff above the build that outlines all the actions per turn; just the numbers don't seem to have actually have any link to the explanations.

For instance:  Main attack (+42 vs AC 44) could go one of two ways: 
High Crit:
crit chance = 0.05 (crit before re-roll) + 0.95*0.05 (re-roll anything not a crit) =  9.75%
miss chance = 0.95*0.05 (re-roll anything not a crit) = 4.75%
hit chance = 85.5%
High Hit:
crit chance = 0.05 (crit before re-roll) + 0.05*0.05 (only re-roll a miss) = 5.25%
miss chance = 0.05*0.05 (only re-roll a miss) = 0.25%
hit chance = 94.5%

But quite clearly these aren't the numbers that Alpha is using.  Perhaps he's accounting for the possibility of missing all his attacks on the previous round, and so not having CA on the next round?  (Although that's a ridiculously low chance, assuming he goes the high hit route with Martial Supremacy) 



After looking back over the calculations, I was going the hit route with martial supremacy.  It took me a moment to figure the discrepancy between our numbers, until I went back to my notebook and found I'd added a mysterious limiter on the chance of the second crit.  So instead of .05+.05*.05 as our crit chance I was running .05+.05*.05*.05 (or .05+.05*.1*.1 in the case of a different hit chance).  That actually undermines our dpr, but probably not by a lot.
Thanks for that clarification Alpha!  Hopefully the answers to my questions about the shift slashes are just simple.

Edit: Also having recently married, I totally understand how clean-up isn't terribly high priority.  I'm really only going over all these things because my Marilith Summoner actually competes for high DPR titles, AND I have a broken foot and can't move much. 
All righty; I've worked out (most) of the kinks now.

I've 3 big glaring things left though:

Does anyone know how Alpha gets 13 slashes with the shift slasher per turn, regardless of attacks? (I get: 2 from move action, 2 from each attack due to mobile warrior = 8... but I don't know where the other 5 come from.)

Secondly, Alpha appears to have forgotten his own White Lotus Enervation with the shift slasher; given that he has phenomenal DPR without it, he effectively has a feat free.  Also note: The shift slasher has both the Battle Harness AND an Arcane Familiar, so no need to worry about drawing/stowing items.

Last: Alpha still seems to claim 3 slashes per hit with his shift slasher; except he only has 1 shadowrift blade, and he doesn't have exultant shadow step, so I only see him getting 2 slashes per hit.


Anyway, at the moment, ignoring all the things I seem to be missing the Shift Slasher is at a whopping 755/833 after milestone DPR; but if someone can point out how he gets the extra 5 slashes per turn +1 slash per hit, that will increase to a potential 1063/1140 after milestone DPR.

@Kulguy: Warlocks generally get all their control from their powers, and it's generally single target control.  Swordmages have a sprinkling of AoE control, also from their powers.  So you could probably get a moderate controller pre-16, although, in my opinion, very few controllers are particularly controller pre-paragon anyway. 


The shift slasher is a tad out of date, for a couple reasons:
1. The new tiefling feats make this build totally out of whack.
2. Luring Strike gives 4 separate teleports per standard action hit, which puts us up to 6 with a shadowrift blade.

It'll probably be easier for me to rework the build than to go back and deconstruct the numbers.

Incidentally, the build uses a Floating Weapon familiar rather than a hand familiar...which gives a free shift when we make an attack.  By alternative, we can grab White Lotus Master Evasion(which was the point of having WLEvasion in the first place) to accomplish the same objective. 
All righty; well if you do go ahead and update, I'll just have to cry even more, as the Slasher is the only thing ahead of my Marilith right now.  And given that you're easily 800 DPR ahead of me already.. well.. I don't think anything is catching a shift slasher.
All righty; well if you do go ahead and update, I'll just have to cry even more, as the Slasher is the only thing ahead of my Marilith right now.  And given that you're easily 800 DPR ahead of me already.. well.. I don't think anything is catching a shift slasher.




I think my rogue | assassin could do it.  Being a daggermaster means I get to crit on 18's!!!  Couple that with an exocutioner's bracers and I can really push out the damage.   ^/ sarcasm  ^
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
The Battle Harness doesn't require the item to be stowed in it, only stowed. You could probably have a basket or something attached to your waist so that they fall into it if you rule that items attached to your belt are not stowed, or you could have some kind of counterweight to pull the items into sheaths.



I don't think this is a valid tactic to use if you are playing by RAW.  You are just making up things to get benefits that do not require you to spend the necessary resources.  Take the feat to get the hand familiar if you want to do this sort of thing.
I don't think this is a valid tactic to use if you are playing by RAW.  You are just making up things to get benefits that do not require you to spend the necessary resources.  Take the feat to get the hand familiar if you want to do this sort of thing.


This argument has come up before, and I just want to request that it stay out of this thread.  As a DM, I reward creative thinking on the part of my players, but real-world solutions come with real-world problems.  The DMG has good guidelines for mechanical benefits of actions not explicitly covered in the rules.
You may disagree, and for sure it's a DM-dependent thing.  But just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not valid.  It just means it's not always reliable.
This may seem like a foolish question, so forgive me in advance... But I was wondering how come the Slasher builds don't use Sword Burst and rely on Eldritch Strike? I get it for when you charge because it is your MBA.... but what about when you don't? Do slashes (from shadowrift dagger, mostly) not trigger off hits through Sword Burst (even if cast through the dagger via AIP)?
This may seem like a foolish question, so forgive me in advance... But I was wondering how come the Slasher builds don't use Sword Burst and rely on Eldritch Strike? I get it for when you charge because it is your MBA.... but what about when you don't? Do slashes (from shadowrift dagger, mostly) not trigger off hits through Sword Burst (even if cast through the dagger via AIP)?


Deft Blade makes mbas with light blades target ref instead of AC.  That's worth +2 to hit on average.  Eldritch Strike is also usable for Aegis of Assault attacks, and is pretty boss in its own right.  It is easier to beef up a melee attack than an implement attack.  And so on.  Eldritch Strike is just much easier to buff.  Dancing weapons make MBAs, which means...Eldritch Strike.
All this means Arcane Admixturing Eldritch Strike is the wiser idea, which means we only get our frost vulnerability if we're attacking with it at some point, so sword burst doesn't enter in.  Recently I've been using Luring Strike for my standard action attack, but that's just because it gets 4 more slashes in per hit, at the cost of losing Frost damage for the attack itself. 
The new Monk At-will let's you shift 2 as an imidiate interupt.  Not sure if hybrid or go half-elf would mess things up more then help them, but it seems worth looking into.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.