Teachings

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So apparently Teachings decks have been doing well in MODO daily events.  From what I've seen, Guillaume Wafo-Tapa popularized the deck, which automatically makes it worthy of consideration. 

Sample list by Wafo-Tapa:
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Mystic Gate
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain

3 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Plumeveil

4 Spell Snare
4 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
1 Logic Knot
1 Pact of Negation
1 Spell Burst
4 Doom Blade
1 Path to Exile
1 Repeal
1 Extirpate
1 Shadow of Doubt
4 Esper Charm
3 Mystical Teachings

1 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
2 Flashfreeze
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Shadow of Doubt
3 Deathmark
3 Thoughtseize
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Ghost Quarter

It looks pretty solid overall, but a few things jump out at me:
-4 Doom Blade and 1 PtE?  I'm sure he has his reasons for this, but it seems to me that some sort of split would be better.
-No Pulse of the Fields, even in the sideboard.  I know from experience lets you steal games from Zoo.  I guess it might be a little tough on the manabase, but that should be fixable. 

Also, a singleton Dralnu would be fun, like in the old Standard deck.  You basically win if you untap with him in play, but just one Lightning Bolt slipping through your counterwall can cost you the game.  Overall, he's probably a bit too vulnerable, but could be a good 1-of in the sideboard.

See this thread on Salvation for more detail.


Doom blade is better vs zoo, but seeing as how the meta has shifted to a ridiculous extent towards dark depths, a 3/2 path/blade split is probably better.

I keep looking at this and wanting to tool around with it on modo but 1) I really want to focus on testing foundry when I play ext, and 2) I'm 2 teferi's short... so I'll probably pick the rest up after oakland and play around with it :P
This is pretty damn cool.
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I know theiz has been playing this, but doesn't really post in extended anymore.  I'll see if I can get what his opinion on it is so far.
NO ONE EXPECTS THE QUAGSIRE INSURRECTION! My SUPER AWESOME GregtheEgg lightning bolt: http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm284/fengairen2/Scan.png pmppostchandraversion.png
I played a few games with Wafo-Tapa's list, but with Pulse of the Fields over Logic Knot, and the results were encouraging.

The games I played against Rubin Zoo were very similar: in both games, he led off with Noble Hierarch, which gave me the time I needed to set up a counter wall.  Eventually, I found Teachings, grabbed Pulse of the Fields, kept my life total high, and won with Baneslayer. 

Scapeshift was also pretty easy.  This deck tends to win counterwars, and Shadow of Doubt is great against Scapeshift.

A month or so back, I built a UB version, I used Dralnu for extra card advantage. The main difference between my list the above one was Moxen. I was using them to get early mana leaks online etc. I also played a tutorable copy of gifts.

The above list does look better though, but I found the deck needs a ton of mana.
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A month or so back, I built a UB version, I used Dralnu for extra card advantage. The main difference between my list the above one was Moxen. I was using them to get early mana leaks online etc. I also played a tutorable copy of gifts.

The above list does look better though, but I found the deck needs a ton of mana.


Yeah, I've noticed that the deck probably wants 25 lands.  I'm not sure what I'm going to cut for it yet, though.
I would love to play Teachings again, but I don't think the current format is conducive to such a thing.  Dark Depths Thopter is just a more potent deck overall.  While Teachings can certainly steal quite a few games, I think most of its matches come down to the pilot not making mental errors, which is a problem unless you are Wafo-Tapa.  That being said, I'd like to see some sort of hybridization between the more aggressive curve of Depths and the reactive nature of this deck.  I also think the rotation of Mirrodin will have the biggest impact on deck playability once October comes around.  There are simply too many dominant cards from that block, such as Chalice, Chrome Mox, Explosives and the like.  Once that set rotates, we'll get to see some real control deck design space, and I think Teachings will be up near the top once people figure out how to play it properly.

When chrome mox leaves, this deck will probably become the go to control deck. The deck itself doesn't like playing chrome mox, and that puts it a turn behind lots of the combo decks, and even some of the control decks. Which is the problem.
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When chrome mox leaves, this deck will probably become the go to control deck. The deck itself doesn't like playing chrome mox, and that puts it a turn behind lots of the combo decks, and even some of the control decks. Which is the problem.




When chrome mox leaves mirriodin will have rotated which will be one of the bigger changes to the format in the last few rotations.

So who knows what we will see no one expected thopter foundry this season or DD.
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal
89522235 wrote:
niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK! "ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day..." "MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

When chrome mox leaves, this deck will probably become the go to control deck. The deck itself doesn't like playing chrome mox, and that puts it a turn behind lots of the combo decks, and even some of the control decks. Which is the problem.




When chrome mox leaves mirriodin will have rotated which will be one of the bigger changes to the format in the last few rotations.

So who knows what we will see no one expected thopter foundry this season or DD.




Well as soon as Foundry was printed, we knew Thopter-sword would be good, same goes for hexmage and DD. And the general consensus was Tezz would be the top control deck this season, but fae has proven it's power mroe than most expected I feel.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/

When chrome mox leaves, this deck will probably become the go to control deck. The deck itself doesn't like playing chrome mox, and that puts it a turn behind lots of the combo decks, and even some of the control decks. Which is the problem.




When chrome mox leaves mirriodin will have rotated which will be one of the bigger changes to the format in the last few rotations.

So who knows what we will see no one expected thopter foundry this season or DD.




Well as soon as Foundry was printed, we knew Thopter-sword would be good, same goes for hexmage and DD. And the general consensus was Tezz would be the top control deck this season, but fae has proven it's power mroe than most expected I feel.



What I mean is we have no idea what will be printed in the next 2 sets so we could get some amazing control engine(like teaching or gifts) that could completely change the format.

And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal
89522235 wrote:
niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK! "ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day..." "MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
In my testing, I've found that this deck is very unforgiving if you make a mistake.  Like Cyrus said, you start off slower than most decks, so one mistake and they're just too far ahead for you to win.  Fortunately, Mystical Teachings is powerful enough to just flat-out steal games if you can resolve it.
I've actually found this to deck to be really powerful, I havn't played a lot of it. probably have played around 20 or so games with it, but it doesn't differ much from most control decks I like. With the version I've been playing I've had dralnu in there to really just shut down the late game playing like the orignal DDL where you just continully one for one your opponent and late game have some much CA that you put them into the ground.

My list right now is

// Lands
    4 [M10] Drowned Catacomb
    2 [RAV] Watery Grave
    2 [M10] Glacial Fortress
    2 [SHM] Mystic Gate
    3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    3 [ZEN] Island (4)
    1 [ZEN] Swamp (1)
    2 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
    1 [WWK] Celestial Colonnade
    1 [CHK] Minamo, School at Water's Edge

// Creatures
    3 [TSP] Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
    1 [PLC] Crovax, Ascendant Hero
    1 [TSP] Dralnu, Lich Lord

// Spells
    1 [FUT] Logic Knot
    4 [CNF] Path to Exile
    2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    1 [PLC] Extirpate
    1 [RAV] Shadow of Doubt
    3 [TSP] Mystical Teachings
    4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
    3 [9E] Mana Leak
    4 [DIS] Spell Snare
    4 [ALA] Esper Charm
    1 [ON] Smother
    2 [TSP] Ancestral Vision
    1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [ON] Smother
SB: 2 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 3 [M10] Deathmark
SB: 3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [SHM] Fracturing Gust
SB: 1 [M10] Baneslayer Angel
SB: 1 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
SB: 2 [M10] Celestial Purge

I'd likely drop shadow of doubt for another mana leak but it pretty much a limited use cantripping counterspell and isn't terrible in g1 in any mu but does get sided out a lot. But my current list I am really liking, though evil doesn't like smother over doomblades but bob is just such a power house in thopter depths atm that killing that is just so amazing. I was orignally had tolaria academy in my deck to get back EE but I was never in situation where I felt like I wanted to get back EE even though it is really powerful it just wasn't worth it just or EE, only thing I would want to use it for was to wasteland someone elses academy ruins.

I actually really like the miser logic knot since late game its really a counterspell where you end up delving fetchlands and other things that are on the bottom of your flashbacking with dralnu. The CA suite of 3 teachings and 4 esper charm is necessary but I also really like the 2 ancestral visions, since this deck is so slow and deliberate even suspending it late game isn't something you don't like because you normally can keep yourself in pretty good position and even keep your life total up with pulse of fields, even negating some attacks depending on what they have.
But you were deceived.
I've actually found this to deck to be really powerful, I havn't played a lot of it. probably have played around 20 or so games with it, but it doesn't differ much from most control decks I like. With the version I've been playing I've had dralnu in there to really just shut down the late game playing like the orignal DDL where you just continully one for one your opponent and late game have some much CA that you put them into the ground.

My list right now is

// Lands
    4 [M10] Drowned Catacomb
    2 [RAV] Watery Grave
    2 [M10] Glacial Fortress
    2 [SHM] Mystic Gate
    3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    3 [ZEN] Island (4)
    1 [ZEN] Swamp (1)
    2 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
    1 [WWK] Celestial Colonnade
    1 [CHK] Minamo, School at Water's Edge

// Creatures
    3 [TSP] Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
    1 [PLC] Crovax, Ascendant Hero
    1 [TSP] Dralnu, Lich Lord

// Spells
    1 [FUT] Logic Knot
    4 [CNF] Path to Exile
    2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    1 [PLC] Extirpate
    1 [RAV] Shadow of Doubt
    3 [TSP] Mystical Teachings
    4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
    3 [9E] Mana Leak
    4 [DIS] Spell Snare
    4 [ALA] Esper Charm
    1 [ON] Smother
    2 [TSP] Ancestral Vision
    1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [ON] Smother
SB: 2 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 3 [M10] Deathmark
SB: 3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [SHM] Fracturing Gust
SB: 1 [M10] Baneslayer Angel
SB: 1 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
SB: 2 [M10] Celestial Purge

I'd likely drop shadow of doubt for another mana leak but it pretty much a limited use cantripping counterspell and isn't terrible in g1 in any mu but does get sided out a lot. But my current list I am really liking, though evil doesn't like smother over doomblades but bob is just such a power house in thopter depths atm that killing that is just so amazing. I was orignally had tolaria academy in my deck to get back EE but I was never in situation where I felt like I wanted to get back EE even though it is really powerful it just wasn't worth it just or EE, only thing I would want to use it for was to wasteland someone elses academy ruins.

I actually really like the miser logic knot since late game its really a counterspell where you end up delving fetchlands and other things that are on the bottom of your flashbacking with dralnu. The CA suite of 3 teachings and 4 esper charm is necessary but I also really like the 2 ancestral visions, since this deck is so slow and deliberate even suspending it late game isn't something you don't like because you normally can keep yourself in pretty good position and even keep your life total up with pulse of fields, even negating some attacks depending on what they have.


LOL, tolarian academy (you mean academy ruins) :P.  Two comments: one, the singleton logic knot is good tech.  Two, you might actually be right about smother.  When I play faeries I don't care about bob that much, honestly, but for this deck you really do.
NO ONE EXPECTS THE QUAGSIRE INSURRECTION! My SUPER AWESOME GregtheEgg lightning bolt: http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm284/fengairen2/Scan.png pmppostchandraversion.png
I've actually found this to deck to be really powerful, I havn't played a lot of it. probably have played around 20 or so games with it, but it doesn't differ much from most control decks I like. With the version I've been playing I've had dralnu in there to really just shut down the late game playing like the orignal DDL where you just continully one for one your opponent and late game have some much CA that you put them into the ground.

My list right now is

// Lands
    4 [M10] Drowned Catacomb
    2 [RAV] Watery Grave
    2 [M10] Glacial Fortress
    2 [SHM] Mystic Gate
    3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    3 [ZEN] Island (4)
    1 [ZEN] Swamp (1)
    2 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
    1 [WWK] Celestial Colonnade
    1 [CHK] Minamo, School at Water's Edge

// Creatures
    3 [TSP] Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
    1 [PLC] Crovax, Ascendant Hero
    1 [TSP] Dralnu, Lich Lord

// Spells
    1 [FUT] Logic Knot
    4 [CNF] Path to Exile
    2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    1 [PLC] Extirpate
    1 [RAV] Shadow of Doubt
    3 [TSP] Mystical Teachings
    4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
    3 [9E] Mana Leak
    4 [DIS] Spell Snare
    4 [ALA] Esper Charm
    1 [ON] Smother
    2 [TSP] Ancestral Vision
    1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [ON] Smother
SB: 2 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 3 [M10] Deathmark
SB: 3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [SHM] Fracturing Gust
SB: 1 [M10] Baneslayer Angel
SB: 1 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
SB: 2 [M10] Celestial Purge

I'd likely drop shadow of doubt for another mana leak but it pretty much a limited use cantripping counterspell and isn't terrible in g1 in any mu but does get sided out a lot. But my current list I am really liking, though evil doesn't like smother over doomblades but bob is just such a power house in thopter depths atm that killing that is just so amazing. I was orignally had tolaria academy in my deck to get back EE but I was never in situation where I felt like I wanted to get back EE even though it is really powerful it just wasn't worth it just or EE, only thing I would want to use it for was to wasteland someone elses academy ruins.

I actually really like the miser logic knot since late game its really a counterspell where you end up delving fetchlands and other things that are on the bottom of your flashbacking with dralnu. The CA suite of 3 teachings and 4 esper charm is necessary but I also really like the 2 ancestral visions, since this deck is so slow and deliberate even suspending it late game isn't something you don't like because you normally can keep yourself in pretty good position and even keep your life total up with pulse of fields, even negating some attacks depending on what they have.


LOL, tolarian academy (you mean academy ruins) :P.  Two comments: one, the singleton logic knot is good tech.  Two, you might actually be right about smother.  When I play faeries I don't care about bob that much, honestly, but for this deck you really do.



My defense it was like 2 am.
But you were deceived.
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Mystic Gate
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain

3 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Crovax

4 Spell Snare
4 Mana Leak
4 Cryptic Command
4 Path to Exile
4 Esper Charm
3 Mystical Teachings
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Logic Knot
1 Pact of Negation
1 Repeal
1 Extirpate
1 Pulse of the Fields

3 Deathmark
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Smother
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Echoing Truth
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Engineered Explosives
So a couple questions about these lists and this deck in general.
1) Is it fast enough to beat Weenie Zoo?
2) Should their be more life gain for the faster matchups? Example: Zoo, Burn, Brozek...
3) Does the lack of Vendillion Clique hurt the control matchup?
4) Does the deck have enough to threats to beat the real control decks?
5) Is it really better than Thepths?  
So a couple questions about these lists and this deck in general.
1) Is it fast enough to beat Weenie Zoo?
2) Should their be more life gain for the faster matchups? Example: Zoo, Burn, Brozek...
3) Does the lack of Vendillion Clique hurt the control matchup?
4) Does the deck have enough to threats to beat the real control decks?
5) Is it really better than Thepths?  


1. It's not exactly a positive matchup, but it's not like you can't win, either.  Your goal is to use your counters and removal to stay alive until you can use Mystical Teachings to get Pulse of the Fields.  That should usually seal you the game unless you're way, way behind. 
2. One maindeck Pulse of the Fields and maybe more in the board seems good to me.
3. I'm sure that the control matchup would get better if you added Vendilion Clique, but keep in mind that you have 12+ counters, 3 Teferi, and plenty of card draw.  Control really isn't a hard matchup.
4. What control decks are we talking about here?  Tezzerator?
5. Hard to say.  I guess Thepths has more pure power, but it also sees way more hate than Teachings.  That being said, Teachings is becoming less of a rogue deck, so people are at least going to be thinking about it.
I have been doing some testing, and the two counterspells that seemed good to me are logic knot and disrupting shoal. While the shoal is CDA, it can act like a force of will, but more conditional. Logic knot is sooooo good. What are your thoughts? Maybe the shoal as a one-of?
Real men hold shift. If everyone has their fingers in the pie, then someone is eating fingers.
So i've been messing around with this deck... A LOT since i played this in standard and its really the only deck that really interest me in extended. This is my newest list....

Creatures - 3
1x Teferi
2x Baneslayer Angel

Spells - 26
3x Mystical Teachings
3x Esper Charm
1x Thirst for Knowledge
3x Cryptic Command
4x Spell Snare
3x Mana Leak
1x Logic Knot
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Extirpate
1x Gifts Ungiven
4x Path to Exile
1x Tezzeret the Seeker

Artifacts - 7
3x Thopter Foundry
2x Sword of the Meek
2x Engineered Explosives

Lands - 24
1x Academy Ruins
4x Marsh Flats
2x Scalding tarn
1x Plains
1x Swamp
2x Tolaria West 
1x Ghost Quarter 
2x Snow-Covered Island
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Watery Grave
2x Mystic Gate 
1x Snow-Covered Plains 
4x Island

Sideboard - 15
1x Faerie Trickery
3x Kitchen Finks
1x Pulse of the Field
1x Extirpate
1x Crovax
1x Celestial Purge
2x Aven Mindcensor
2x Ravenous Trap
2x Dispel 
1x Fracturing Gust


The Faerie Trickery is really AMAZING against Thepths because they usually play 2 Thopter Foundry's and only 1 Sword of the Meek, which is your main target. Because once you make Thepths one sided (i.e. only being able to win with DD or Thopter) It makes the matchup thousand-fold easier. 

The Finks and Pulse are obviously there for the Zoo matchup, which is surprisingly better than i thought it was. 
 
The rest of the board is for the other main matchups predicted, and even those who havent had a lot of showings, but are always something to prepare for. 

Dispel is actually really good as a silver bullet in this deck, against tezz or other control decks, dispel is usually a lot better than spell snare. 


 
// Lands
    1 [DIS] Ghost Quarter
    3 [M10] Glacial Fortress
    3 [RAV] Watery Grave
    2 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
    3 [SHM] Mystic Gate
    4 [M10] Drowned Catacomb
    4 [P3] Island (2)
    1 [7E] Plains (3)
    1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
    2 [FUT] Tolaria West
    1 [PT] Swamp (4)

// Creatures
    2 [M10] Baneslayer Angel
    3 [TSP] Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
    1 [PLC] Crovax, Ascendant Hero

// Spells
    1 [ZEN] Into the Roil
    1 [GP] Repeal
    2 [ON] Smother
    1 [PLC] Extirpate
    2 [PLC] Damnation
    4 [LRW] Cryptic Command
    2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    4 [9E] Mana Leak
    4 [DIS] Spell Snare
    2 [CFX] Path to Exile
    1 [HOP] Thirst for Knowledge
    1 [FUT] Logic Knot
    1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
    3 [TSP] Mystical Teachings

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [M10] Celestial Purge
SB: 3 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
SB: 1 [RAV] Shadow of Doubt
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 1 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
SB: 2 [CHK] Night of Souls' Betrayal
SB: 1 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [PLC] Damnation
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields

I may add 4 fetches, but I won't add more.  It requires too much on having big mana that fetches hurt after a few.
57860688 wrote:
121183109 wrote:
57074928 wrote:
So when UR Delver came out to win a GP, did Christian Calcano email/call you and thank you personally, or was there just a mutual understanding?
Legitimately laughed at this...haha
No kidding. +1 internets for a hidden gem in the standard deck help.
Glad to see more people getting back into this thread, im not sure if with or without Thopter is the way to go with this deck. With Thopter. which is what im going with, once you play gifts you essentially win the game. If you know what cards to play around, being able to teachings for gifts, and then locking the game down with thopter-combo seems really good. 

But, im no opposed to possibly going with this deck like standard control decks. Playing Thopter-Combo mainboard, and then bring in Baneslayers for game 2 and 3 depending on the matchup.

Newest List... btw, im going to the March 6th PTQ in Jersey with this deck

Creatures - 1
1x Teferi

Spells - 27
3x Mystical Teachings
3x Esper Charm
1x Thirst for Knowledge
3x Cryptic Command
4x Spell Snare
4x Mana Leak
1x Logic Knot
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Extirpate
1x Pulse of the Forge
1x Gifts Ungiven
4x Path to Exile

Artifacts - 8
3x Thopter Foundry
2x Sword of the Meek
3x Engineered Explosives

Lands - 24
1x Academy Ruins
2x Marsh Flats
2x Tolaria West 
1x Ghost Quarter 
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Watery Grave
2x Mystic Gate 
3x Glacial Fortress
3x Drowned Catacombs
2x Island 
2x Snow-Covered Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp


Sideboard - 15
2x Night of Soul's Betrayal
1x Echoing Truth
1x Shadow of Doubt
1x Extirpate
2x Baneslayer Angel
1x Aven Mindcensor
2x Celestial Purge
2x Ravenous Trap
3x Kitchen Finks
i don't like the thopter combo in this deck. in my limited testing resolving a teferi usually means you are in a good position. i tried ee but found it to be very lacking against most match ups. i found wrath/doj to be much more helpful. i really think that 3 teferi's is the rights amount. usually bsa or dralnu is seen as a good finisher with teferi. crovax is so good in this format right now too. i feel like you should have a maindeck bounce besides command. repeal or into the roil. also you put the wrong pulse down