Miscibility Table: A Hybrid's Handbook

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Miscibility Table: A Hybrid's Handbook

 


Introduction
So you've chosen to be a Hybrid.  In doing so, you've chosen to be just about two of anything. Maybe a little better, worse, explosively good, or not work at all. This guide examines the base values of each class, how they've changed by becoming hybrids, and whether or not they mix well with others. This guide is primarily concentrating on the basics - I'm not looking to comment on how to build a better feycharger, but to simply point out where builds that will be enjoyable to play that have a range of optimization levels can be found.

Ratings
GOLD indicates what is essentially a must-have option, a rare gem indeed.
Sky Blue options should be strongly considered, as these are optimal choices.
Blue options are very good; they're generally useful and often optimal depending on build.
Black is average.  Solid option, but you could probably do better (you're pretty safe sticking with these for thematic reasons, though).
Purple indicates a below average choice, but for certain character builds (or to preserve thematic consistency) it's still viable.  Still, you shouldn't choose too many of these.
Red is pretty much junk.  Take it at your own risk, but remember that you were warned.

Sources
PHB = Players Handbook
PHB2 = Players Handbook 2
PHB3 = Players Handbook 3

PrP = Primal Power (may also be referred to as PP, though I'll try to be consistent)
MP = Martial Power
AV = Adventurer's Vault
AV2 = Adventurer's Vault 2
D### = Dragon issue ###
PHH = Players Handbook Heroes minis set


Common Abbreviations
MBA = melee basic attack
RBA = ranged basic attack
OA = opportunity attack
NAD = non-AC defenses (Fortitude, Reflex, and Will)

 

 



Acknowledgements

LDB for the standardized format.

Everyone that posts with commentary/suggestions.
 


 

 

Class Overview

 

Class Features, etc.

Weapon/Implement:  Weapon users don’t usually mix with well Implements and vice-versa. A class with a Weapon that can be used as an Implement has a huge advantage. Swordmages in particular, but weapons that have the option of being used as an implement for the class are good too. There are a number of good combo feats - Staff Expertise, White Lotus Expertise(Arcane/BA only), Devout Protector Expertise, Mighty Crusader Expertise, War Wizard's Expertise(for Light/Heavy Blades/Arcane/BA only), Ki Focus Expertise and Versatile Expertise. Each of them have their flaws - Staff isn't a great weapon, Devout/Mighty require two items, Ki Focus doesn't have great choices, White/War are limited to Arcane, and Versatile doesn't give anything extra.
Slotless Implement:  Easy to mix, gives strong options to other classes. Still requires an extra item if mixing with weapon class unless Ki Focus. But Ki Focus choices are not that great
Weapon: Nothing wrong, but stick to two weapon-using classes.
Handheld Implement: Nothing wrong, but stick to two-implement using classes.

 

Attributes
Note:  Recommended starting values are post-racial bonuses. 
Primaries:  Keep these two your highest. Strongly consider a race that boosts at least one of them, if not both. Recommended starting value:  16-18.
Secondaries:: If you can make one of your primary stats a secondary stat for the other class, that’s what usually makes a secondary stat dark blue. Watch out for secondary stats that either have had a big downgrade due to the nature of the hybrid or are completely outside both classes. Recommended starting value:  10-18.

Tertiaries Usually a trap, but there are a couple of classes that have the same tertiary stats. Could be worth a 12-13. Recommended starting value:  10-13.

Sample Ability Spreads
Note: All examples are 1st level, pre-racial mods.  Abilities are presented in order of array values:
Balanced:  16, 16, 12, 12, 10, 8.  This array qualifies you for potential 18s in both classes.
Single primary stat:  18, 14, 11, 10, 10, 8.  This is for a hybrid that has just one primary stat, hopefully with strong defensive values such as Dex, Int, or Con.

Unbalanced:  16, 14, 14, 13, 10, 8. For the class that has a strong primary stat for one class and a weak primary for the other and multiple important secondaries. i.e. you end up with 1 encounter and 1 daily from your weak primary class.
Weirdly unbalanced: 17, 15, 13, 10, 10, 8. For the class that has a strong primary stat for one class, a weak primary for the other and an important tertiary. i.e. you end up with 1 encounter and 1 daily from your weak primary class.

 

 

Races
PHB Races
Dragonborn:  One of two race that does Str/Cha. Con/Cha isn't bad either. Accesses not just all the Str primary classes, but can mix them with the Cha primary classes.
Dwarf: Dwarves are okay. While there are a number of good Wisdom classes, Con is really just Warlock(and not all of Warlock) and it doesn’t really appreciate Wisdom at all. Battlemind is a newer exception, but for the most part, Battlemind is a weak marking hybrid - it marks easily, but it needs another Defender class to take advantage of the mark. Str adds some options, but Str/Con is the standard "I'm sacrificing a defense" move. Feat support is very strong, though.

Eladrin: Major upgrade from having Int/Cha as an option. Lots of good class choices open up there(and simply not needing to put Dex with Int on Int-based classes is a major upgrade)
Elf: Dex/Wis opens up a lot of good Archer + Wis class options. Only downside is that an Archer needs a bow and likely requires two weapons and/or implements. Dex/Int opens up some interesting choices if you're in love with Elven Accuracy.
Half Elf:  Dilettante strangely enough isn’t as good as it usually is - many Striker-critical class features won’t work with it as they would normally. But they boost Cha and it can still be used to supplement whatever the primary role of the PC is going to be. Con/Wis has some additional choices, but nothing spectacular.
Halfling:  Dex/Cha wouldn’t be especially bad except that they’ll likely end up being a Striker/Striker of some sort. Dex/Con allows for Battlemind/Striker, which is decent.

Human:  3 at-wills. Only downside is that they want their primary to be in the same stat.
Tiefling: Strong pair of stats. Many classes use both Int and/or Cha in some way. Cha/Con doesn't open up a lot of additional options, but it is hard to ignore all the crazy feat support that Tieflings have gotten access to.

PHB2 Races:

Deva: See Tiefling. Int/Wis is a slight upgrade on Int/Cha.

Gnome: Same stats as the Tiefling. But Small and not the same feat support.

Goliath:  Nothing horribly wrong here except Con really only fits Warlock or Battlemind, which greatly limits some of the options and stats figure in the same defense. Which is usually not as valuable for a hybrid.

Half-Orc:  A solid choice. Ranger goes with everything, Monk is strong, and Rogue isn’t bad. Would be Dark Blue except that Dex doesn’t really go that well with Str in the context of less class features. Dex/Con isn't a major upgrade to that either. Still, if you're going for a Str/Dex hybrid, there isn't a huge number of places to go.

Longtooth Shifter: Str/Wis has a lot of classes with at least partial support for that pair.
Razorclaw Shifter: Same stat bonuses as the Elf, without the other little perks.


PHB3 Races:
Githzerai:  Similar to Elf or Deva, not quite as good as a Deva.

Minotaur:  See Goliath and Longtooth Shifter. Slightly weaker support, but Str/Wis is a very good set of stats.
Shardmind: See Deva and Tiefling. Not as good support.
Wilden:  Stat bonuses of the Dwarf or Elf. Not as good support.

 

Controllers

 

In general, Controllers work best with Leader or Striker as their other half. They've usually been too dinged on defensive values to be any good at doing Defender and by picking Controller, they're often exchanging somewhat significant class features for additional power choice. As Wizard is usually going to be one of the choices and has so many great powers, this usually results in a net negative(though in the case of the Invoker|Wizard, a small net negative)

 

Druids:
Summary: Sentinel is almost strictly better by RAW unless you're here for a beastform MBA or the very nice encounter power Infiltrating Drone and don't want one of the Were-themes. Most of the best powers are non-beast form and Were-themes are an option if you have to have a beast form. RAI, hybrid Sentinel likely shouldn't have Druid encounter choices that actual Sentinels have, and some players or DMs may not be comfortable with that. If you're in one of those games, Druids shoot up to Blue.
Stats: Wisdom mostly.
Class Features: Wild shape is okay, but being action-limited in Wild Shape can be really dangerous - that you can't use any of the attack powers of the other class is really bad. The best hybrid builds seem to ignore Wild Shape.
Implement: Decent implement/weapon choice, but as Quarterstaff has limited melee uses, not as good as it could have been.
At-Wills: Magic Stones represents a top-tier controller at-will.
Hybrid Feat benefits: There are a couple of interesting options here, but with Hide Armor Expertise nerfed, not so great.
Interesting Builds: Given Druids relatively solid hit points/surges for a controller, they make a very strong mix with almost any Dex/Wis or Int/Wis build. They're not a bad Con/Wis option either.
Options of Note: WereX themes allow a Druid hybrid to use Beastform Powers and Weapon/Implement powers at the same time. This also opens up Charge options via Stampede(+boots) and Enraged Boar Form.

Notable Powers

Wis-Based At-Wills: Firehawk, Magic Stones, Grasping Claws, Savage Rend
Wis-Based Encounters: Wind Wall, Charm Beast, Infiltrating Drone
Wis-based Dailies: Summon Giant Toad, Clinging Drones, Writhing Henge
Stat-Independent Utilities: Verdant Bounty, Bear's Strength, Camouflage Cloak, Eagle's Splendor, Serpent's Cunning, Clear the Chaff, Feywild Sojourn, Elusive Wind

 

Invokers:
Summary: 
Good control, one main stat for the most part, very strong at-will option.
Stats: All Wisdom unless you take the Int-Divine Channel option via Hybrid feat.
Class Features
: You get the best feature in the form of the Covenant. Hit points, surges are limited. Good basic armor.
Implement: Decent implement/weapon choice, but as Quarterstaff has limited melee uses, not as good as it could have been.
At-Wills: Two really great choices of at-wills(Divine Bolts and Hand of Radiance), but you wouldn't take both. Better choices exist elsewhere, which really makes Invoker Hybrid a strong early choice.
Hybrid Feat benefits: Divine Channeling is excellent for Int-based characters.
Interesting Builds: Invoker|Cleric - one slotless implement. Invoker|Wizard. Mix of control. Invoker|Shaman - Con/Wis, but works with human. Can pick up the spirit with the hybrid feat with no real loss. No implement issues.

Notable Powers

Wis-Based At-Wills: Hand of Radiance, Divine Bolts(with Power of Skill and RBA granter)
Wis-Based Encounters: Thunder of Judgment, Compel Action
Wis-based Dailies: Silent Malediction
Int-Based Daily: Pennant of Heaven's Armies
Int-Based Utilities: Word of Urgency
Stat-Independent Utilities: Divine Call, Demand Justice, Shield of Justice
 

 

Ranger(Hunter)
Summary: Don't be a Hunter. Be a regular Human Ranger or Half-Elf with the Dilettante feat for a Ranger at-will who happens to have Archery Mastery.

 

Wizards:
Summary:
 Easy mixing with other classes, especially Int, Wis, Con, or Cha. Lots of solid racial choices(Tiefling, Gnome, Changeling, Deva, Human, Genasi, Eladrin).
Stats: Int + whatever you want your implement to be.
Class Features
: You get the best parts of Wizard and most of it is replaceable by feats.
Implement: Decent implement/weapon choice.
At-Wills: Wizard has a few too many good at-wills. You'll likely end up sacrificing somewhere by hybriding. Still, not a horrible place to be. Makes a strong case for Human.
Hybrid Feat benefits: Arcane Implement Mastery is great. But you can easily get by without it. Good to have choices regardless.
Interesting Builds: Pretty much anything with Int, Wis, Con, or Cha as a primary stat.

Notable Powers

Int-Based At-Wills: Beguiling Strands, Freezing Burst, Hypnotism, Winged Horde
Int-Based Encounters: Color Spray, Charm of the Defender, Twist of Space, Dark Gathering, Prismatic Burst, Charm of False Glory, Charm of Puppet Strings, Impenetrable Gloom, Steal Time
Stat-Independent Encounter: Mass Charm
Int-Based Daily Power: Sleep, Face of Death, Visions of Ruin, Mirage Arcana, Summon Succubus, Symphony of the Dark Court, Slumber of the Winter Court, Phantom Reality, Prismatic Spray, Summon Abyssal Horde, Summon Marilith, False Reality, Flash Freeze, Visions of Wrath
Stat-Independent Daily: Wrath of Battle
Int-based Utility: Illusory Wall
Stat-Independent Utilities: Shield
  

 

Psion
Summary: Easy mixing with other classes, especially Int, Wis, or Cha. Lots of solid racial choices(Tiefling, Gnome, Changeling, Deva, Human, Genasi, Eladrin) - due to it being a lot newer than Wizard, not quite as good. Why it isn't black is due to its ability to have 3 total at-wills, not 2 like everyone else.
Stats: Int + Wis or Cha. Lots of options.
Class Features: You get the best parts of Psion and there's really no strong reason to spend a feat on the hybrid option.

Implement: Decent implement/weapon choice, but as Quarterstaff has limited melee uses, not as good as it could have been.
At-Wills: Lots of solid choices and Augment 1s look very suspiciously like at-wills once you get to high enough level. Strong case here for Human - you'll want to sacrifice Dishearten or Mind Thrust at paragon/epic, but this allows the character to retain the basic benefit - simple at-will debuff or RBA.
Hybrid Feat benefits: Nothing to see here.
Interesting Builds: Psion|Avenger - surprisingly interesting due to the ability for a human to take an 18 in Int and a 16 in Wis. One of the few multi-stat Human builds. Avenger brings Holy Symbol into play and can grant a 19 AC at 1st level by spending the obvious feats. Many obvious Wizard|X combos work for Psion as well.
Warning: You are going to want a good Cha or Wis score or your riders will suffer greatly 

Notable Powers

Int-Based At-Wills: Dishearten(Cha), Dimensional Scramble, Mind Thrust(Cha), Kinetic Buffer(Wis), Thunder Tether(Aug 1 in particular), Forced Opportunity(Cha), Sudden Control
Int-based Dailies: Mind Blast, Far Realm's Embrace, Thrall
Stat-Based Daily: Living Missile(Int), Living Barrage(Int)
Wis-Based Utilities: Forceful Repositioning
Cha-Based Utilities: Intellect Fortress
Stat-Independent Utilities: Mind Shroud, Mind over Flesh

 

Seeker 
Summary:
 Do Ranged Control until you miss, then blow things up with Inevitable Shot, then do your other class. And the Hybrid Feat benefit.
Stats: Dex is not especially great here, but Str/Wis can have a lot of options, particularly if you multiclass into Assassin for the ability to ki-focus all your weapon choices. Other Wis|X stats can work reasonably well - just pick powers without riders based on stats. As you kind of want to miss as fast as possible, having only a 16 Wis is okay.
Class Features
: Inevitable Shot(Hybrid) basically determines how this hybrid behaves. i.e. you want to trigger this class feature, possibly reactivate it with an action point, then move on to your other class.
Weapon
: Bow
At-Wills: Decent, but not spectacular at-wills. It is important to pick a Seeker power that works as a Ranged Basic attack. Half-Elves can now pick a Ranger at-will as their dilettante, then take the Archery Mastery feat to replace it with an RBA upgrade option. Rapid Shot could be a lot of fun with Eagle Eye Goggles.

Hybrid Feat benefits: Very strong. Str to AC and +1 to hit with thrown weapons? Makes a lot of interesting Ranged options work for primarily melee types.
Interesting Builds: Builds that use weapons that have Wis as a secondary stat. Str Ranger|Seeker - no need for Chainmail proficiency, solid opening move, +1 to hit with thrown weapons(note this is not when specifically throwing them, it is based on the property...). Artificer|Seeker - at first, doesn't seem quite natural, but there's a lot of useful bow alignment. Warlord|Seeker. +1 to hit with all your ranged attack powers and Str to AC can really make this work.

Notable Powers

Wis-Based At-Wills: Tidal Spirit Shot
Wis-Based Encounters: Fey Jump Shot, Bonds of Moonlight, Wisp Shot
Wis-based Dailies: Fey Sinkhole, Captivating Missile
Stat-Independent Utilities: Feywild Jaunt, Land Passage
 

 

Warlock(Binder)
Summary: Be a Star Pact + Nova Striker. Blow things up, then turn invisible. What's not to like? Completely cornercase - gain the big benefit of being a permastealth build(be invisible some of the time) without needing to commit significant resources to being invisible all the time.
Stats: Cha/Dex works well with many things. Cha/Int. As you're generally trying to avoid Binder encounter powers, this is really a Cha-only in terms of need class.
Class Features: Keep most of the somewhat decent features, but nothing crazy good

Implement: Standard implement fare.
At-Wills/Encounters: Interesting question is how do at-wills work? Does the build really get no at-wills from the Binder(or maybe the Warlock) side? Does Pact choice limit Encounters from Binder side? Is there access to Warlock? Who knows.
Hybrid Feat benefits:
 Shadow Walk is solid, though available for poaching via MC'ing into Assassin.
Interesting Builds: Binder|Rogue. Binder|Ranger. Binder|Barbarian. Binder|Sorcerer. Note the trend? Striker with Dex, possibly Cha. 

Notable Powers

Cha-Based Encounters: Delban's Deadly Attention, Otherwind Stride, Touch of Command, Web of Lies
Con-Based Encounters: Banish to the Void
Cha-Based Daily Power: Crown of Stars, Deathly Conduit, Delusions of Loyalty, Passionate Betrayal, Curse of the Twin Princes, Curse of the Dark Delirium
Con-Based Daily: Vestige of Baatar, Feast of Souls, Vestige of the Onyx Queen
Cha/Con-Based Daily: Word of the Sorcerer-King
Stat-Independent Utilities: Ethereal Sidestep, Infuriating Elusiveness
 

 

Defenders

 

 

 

Cavalier
Summary: If you're never using Divine Challenge for option access, better than Paladin. But if you want Weakening Challenge in Epic or need Divine Challenge to make your Paragon Path work, Cavalier is not a choice. Also, if you plan to take Channel Divinity over Hybrid Armor and the other class is not a divine class, again, something of a problem.
Stats: Str+Cha on its own Could go Cha or Str only. Lots of options. Given the lack of Lay on Hands, Wis isn't that valuable for the Cha builds.
Class Features: Good access to Divine sanction. Gets either +4 Init/+2 Healing Surge Value or +1 surge and the ability to use Second Wind as a minor to heal an ally.
Implement/Weapon: Has a lot of flexibility with either Holy Symbol or all martial weapons and Devout Protector Expertise is made for them.
At-Wills: Decent at-wills, but many builds will be trying to figure out how to avoid ever using them.

Hybrid Feat benefits: Plate and Heavy Shield. M
Interesting Builds: Cavalier|Cha Ranged Striker(Warlock or Sorcerer) - can easily function with Str/Cha, Dex/Cha, or Int/Cha for those.
Warning: Really loses a lot compared to Paladin in specifically Epic due to the inability to get Weakening Challenge. Not going to Epic is a big plus for Cavalier. 

Notable Powers

Cha-Based At-will: Virtuous Strike
Cha-Based Encounters: Valorous Smite, Astral Thunder(Wis), Price of Cowardice, Castigating Strike, Hand of the Gods(Wis), Demand Respect
Str-Based Encounters: Castigating Strike, Champion's Call, Stunning Smite
Cha-Based Daily Powers: Majestic Halo, True Nemesis
Stat-Independent Daily Power: Discipline the Unruly(Cha)
Cha-based Utility: Call of Challenge, Shared Valor
Stat-Independent Utilities: Virtue
  

 

Fighter
Summary:
 Fighter isn't really a true hybrid. It desperately needs to pick choices that give it marks outside of using Fighter powers for attacks - if it can do that or simply doesn't care about being a Defender, it turns Blue
Stats: Mixes well with all stats
Class Features: Something of a hit or miss. Your mark is structured around using your fighter powers and Fighters don't have a lot of minor action or interrupt attacks.
Weapon: Decent weapon choice, but often doesn't work well with many implements
At-Wills:
 With hybrid, not the strongest selection.
Hybrid Feat benefits: Solid Armor choice or Tempest Style both have their place. The problem for Fighters focused on being a Defender is that they have to figure out some way to get a decent AC of 17+ or some way of replacing all the hit points they're going to lose.
Interesting Builds: Fighter|Seeker. Deft Hurler Style. Fighter|Runepriest. Two wrongs make a right. Mark them - they ignore you and you get to swat them. They attack you and you get bonus damage. Multiclass into another Defender class for additional mark capabilities.

Key Compendium Searches: Mark and Primary Stat of other class. Mark and other class.
Useful Options: Daring Blade, Battle Chaplain, Warpriest, Avernian Knight, Huntmaster, Blade Bravo, multiclass Defender feats(especially Warden), Kirre's Roar as a power choice. Sentinel Marshal, the theme, gives an encounter long mark.
Warning: Must have alternate ways of marking for when you don't use Fighter attack powers in a round.

Notable Powers

Str-Based Encounters: Rain of Blows, Come and Get It, Warrior's Urging, Cruel Reaper
Stat-Independent Daily Power: Rain of Steel, Unyielding Avalanche, Goad of Blood
Dex-based Utility: Kirre's Roar
Stat-Independent Utilities: Battle Fury's Stance, Glowering Threat, Clearheaded, Undeniable Challenge
 

 

Paladin
Summary: One of the better Defender options due to Holy Symbol and their armor. If only they had an at-will option that didn't use a melee weapon...
Stats: Str+Wis or Cha on its own. Lots of options. Given the lack of Lay on Hands, Wis isn't that valuable for the Cha builds.
Class Features: With the Essentials update amazing. Double mark for Defender|Paladins, free action damage at-will and soft control for Ranged Attacker|Paladins, and functional mark for off-defender Melee Attacker|Paladins.
Implement/Weapon: Has a lot of flexibility with either Holy Symbol or all martial weapons, and Devout Protector Expertise is made for them.
At-Wills: Decent at-wills, but many builds will be trying to figure out how to avoid ever using them.

Hybrid Feat benefits: Plate and Heavy Shield
Interesting Builds: Paladin|Cha Ranged Striker(Warlock or Sorcerer) - can easily function with Str/Cha, Dex/Cha, or Int/Cha for those.
Warning: Hybrid Paladin has been updated such that its Divine Challenge does not take an Immediate to punish.

Notable Powers

Cha-Based At-will: Virtuous Strike
Cha-Based Encounters: Valorous Smite, Astral Thunder(Wis), Price of Cowardice, Castigating Strike, Hand of the Gods(Wis), Demand Respect
Str-Based Encounters: Castigating Strike, Champion's Call, Stunning Smite
Cha-Based Daily Powers: Majestic Halo, True Nemesis
Stat-Independent Daily Power: Discipline the Unruly(Cha)
Cha-based Utility: Call of Challenge, Shared Valor
Stat-Independent Utilities: Virtue
  

 

Swordmage
Summary: Easy mixing with other classes, except for Dex-based. Lots of solid racial choices(Tiefling, Gnome, Changeling, Deva, Human, Genasi, Eladrin). Just wow.
Stats: Int. Lots of options.
Class Features: You get the best parts of Swordmage
Implement/Weapon: Weapon as implement plus Int. Still though, options are limited for really making things happen due to Versatile Mastery or sticking to either weapon or implement options.
At-Wills: Swordburst is a strong choice no matter what the build.
Hybrid Feat benefits: Swordmage Warding is very nice. But many builds have other options, in particular Aversion Staff - as a Mark is an effect, so all your marked targets would therefore grant you +2 item to all defenses...
Interesting Builds: Pretty much any build that doesn't have Int as a dump stat. And even some of those. Swordmage|Barbarian as an example. Note that Swordmage|Avenger lets you swing a big Fullblade for the same AC.

Notable Powers

Int-Based At-will: Booming Blade, Sword Burst
Int-Based Encounters: Dimensional Vortex, Dual Lightning Strike, Hypnotic Swordplay, Thundering Vortex
Stat-Independent Daily Power: Quicksilver Blade
Stat-Independent Utilities: Borrowed Confidence
 

 

Warden
Summary: Its main benefit is cornercase builds, Dex or Int Defender|Defender or high Defense/hp strikers. The big problem is that their mark is only valuable if they spend resources to improve stickiness. And at that point, they benefit more from multi-marking than single-target marking.
Stats: Str + Con or Wis.
Class Features: Assuming you spend the Hybrid feat, you get almost everything of value. Font of Life is an unfortunate sacrifice here, but it isn't as if Wardens could interrupt everyone they marked in the first place...
Weapon:
 Decent weapon options
At-Wills: Nothing to see here really. Most characters will be figuring out how to avoid ever using them.
Hybrid Feat benefits: Hide+Shield+Con or Wis to AC. Really strong for a lot of builds.
Interesting Builds: Lots of Str/Wis or Str/Con melee builds. Some Str/Dex or Str/Int builds, particularly Defender|Defender. A Str/Dex Fighter|Warden who picks up Font of Life kind of solves both hybrid problems as an example.
Warning: Mark is only valuable if they spend resources to improve stickiness. If you're playing a Warden hybrid, you're either gaining some other ability to easily mark targets or you're dipping Warden for something else.

Notable Powers

Str-Based Encounters: Wildblood Frenzy, Guardian's Pounce, Warden's Lure
Stat-Independent Daily Power: Form of Winter's Herald(Str), Boiling Cloud(Con/Wis)
Str-Based Daily Powers: Form of the Oak Sentinel, Form of the Crushing Mountain, Form of the Imperious Phoenix
Str-based Utility: Cleansing Earth
Stat-Independent Utilities: Treacherous Ice
  

 

Battlemind
Summary: Con makes it complex to add to another Defender except Paladin. Mixing with some other kind of class ends up with a tough not-defender.
Stats: Something of a dead zone. Con/Cha and Con/Wis don't have a lot of direct support for Defenders.

Class Features: Blurred Step is a huge improvement pre-update. If it weren't for the stat issues, this would be Gold. Example: Opponent shifts away from Fighter|Battlemind. Smacks with Fighter CC, free action shifts towards opponent after Shift and you still get the OA if that's why the creature was shifting away from you...
Weapon:
 Would have been a decent weapon choice, but due to Con/Cha or Con/Wis, most of the options involve bad choices.
At-Wills: Two at-wills(eventually) make this blue.
Hybrid Feat benefits: The usual blue for Scale+Heavy Shield
Interesting Builds: Paladin|Battlemind. Decent armor right off the bat without needing the hybrid feat. Blurred Step+Paladin Mark gives solid OA+mark potential. Fighter|Battlemind - very strong as long as you don't mind the lack of Battlemind riders or are willing to go Daring Blade.

Notable Powers

Con-Based At-Wills: Lightning Lure, Lightning Rush, Forceful Reversal, Brutal Barrage, Intellect Snap, Brilliant Recovery, Mind of Mirrors
Con-Based Daily Power: Iron Tomb, Mind Blade, Omniscient Strike
Stat-Independent Utilities: Instant Move 

 

Leaders

 

Ardent
Summary: Lots to potentially like in terms of powers, but stats, melee weapon focus, and hybrid feat benefits make this one hard to mix.
Stats:
 Con/Cha is pretty much required. Secondary stats are very important to Ardent and you can't ignore them. Cha is nice, but Con doesn't have a lot of support. Cha/Wis has almost no support at all due to most other hybrid Cha/Wis classes ignoring Wisdom, even if their non-hybrid version doesn't do that.
Class Features: Standard Leader qualities.
Weapon: A bit problematic. Con/Cha means your 2nd class is probably using an implement or ranged weapon of some kind. And Ardent doesn't exactly give you the best armor choices.
At-WillsSolid at-wills and eventually gets 2. Ire Strike is very flexible, even if you don't have the correct stats.
Hybrid Feat benefits: Nothing to see here. Too situational and/or why are you spending your hybrid feat on Chainmail when you have Con as a secondary stat?
Interesting Builds: Ardent|Paladin. Ardent|Bard. Ardent|Battlemind, just as PHB3 says. Ardent|Psion where you mainly ignore Ardent and are human could be useful, too.

Notable Powers

Cha-Based At-Wills: Focusing Strike, Forward-Thinking Cut, Violent Upsurge
Stat-Independent At-Will: Ire Strike, Exhilarating Strike
Cha-based Daily: Forward-Thinking Cut
Stat-Independent Dailies: Fate Exchange, Violent Spark
Stat-Independent Utilities: From the Brink, Disbelieve Danger, Borrowed Time
Warning: Most Ardent hybrids will want a Con score

 

Artificer
Summary:
 
Strong, but has weapon/implement and stat issues. Its main strength is that it works very well with classes that share the same stats.
Stats: Int+Wis or Con. Secondary stats are reasonably strong here and that's not helpful.
Class Features: Standard Leader qualities. The ability to distribute healing surges is awesome, but that's all you get...
Weapon/Implement:
 Normally would rate a blue, but here it limits choice - go ranged weapon and there isn't a great Wis or Con class to pair up with. Go melee and then lose flanks. Go implement and lose Magic Weapon. Go weapon and implement and need to support. The Moonbow Dedicate feat is a very decent way to resolve this, but then you lose Superior Implement options.
At-Wills: Very nice. This would be sky blue except weapon/implement issues. 
Hybrid Feat benefits: Both are quite good. Issue will be not spending the feat on the other side.
Interesting Builds: Artificer|Int-classes.
Warning: Most Artificer Hybrids will want Wis or Con

Notable Powers

Int-Based At-Will: Magic Weapon
Int-Based Encounters: Shocking Feedback, Gale-Force Infusion, Prismatic Strike
Con-based Dailies: Icebound Sigil, Lightning Sigil
Int-based Dailies: Punishing Eye, Simulcrum
Stat-Independent Utility: Slick Concoction

 

Bard
Summary: 
Strong except for at-wills - combine with a class that has the at-will(s) you want.
Stats: Cha. Int or Con can be nice, but not required. Mixes with almost everything due to this. In addition, if you have a good MBA, the Skald choices can be very good, especially the encounter choices.
Class Features: Extra skill and Skill Versatility add a lot. Majestic Word is very, very good.
Weapon/Implement: Works very well with others.
At-Wills:
 Decent at-wills, but a little bit behind the times. I'd strongly advise looking at either Human, Half-Elf, and/or a Psionic class for additional at-will options.
Hybrid Feat benefits: Bardic Virtue is a solid use of a feat. I'd only go for Cunning, though as otherwise, there are likely armor issues.
Interesting Builds: Bard|Ranger. Very, very strong - Bard has sky blue immediate interrupt ranged weapon powers, Ranger has Twin Strike. Lots of skills, healing, and damage. Strikers in general tend to work well, Defenders go for mobility(saving the heal for themselves so they can heal and slide 1)

Notable Powers

Cha-Based At-Will: Staggering Note
Cha-Based Encounters: Blunder, Rhyme of the Blood-Seeking Blade, Chant of Bad Fortune, Pounding Rhythm
Stat-Independent Encounters: Lesser Flash of Distraction, Lesser Dimensional Step, Echoing Weapon(ETV), Dimensional Step, Greater Echoing Weapon(ETV), True Prescient Warning
Cha-based Dailies: Arrow of Warning, Song of Discord, Timeless Trek in Mithrendain, Strike Up the Dance, Whispers of the Dream King, Frenzied Rhythm, Arrow of Destiny, Horrifying Truth, Spellbind
Stat-Independent Utility: Moment of Escape, Revitalizating Incantation, Illusory Erasure, Mantle of Unity, Aura of Reverence, Climactic Chord, Invisible Troupe, Note of Aggression

 

Cleric
Summary: Big upgrade via Cleric's new option of Battle Lore. Edging close to Gold if you want an upgrade on your primary class and just poach the Cleric options.
Stats: Str or Wis. Much easier to start with a 20 Str or Wis now due to phenomenal AC. 

Class Features: Strong healer enabler. +2 to hit has potential ability to be exploited as well.
Implement/Weapon: the usual benefits from Holy Symbol
At-Wills: A touch on the stale side. Heroes of Forgotten Lands improves things somewhat, but they're still situational.
Hybrid Feat benefits: Very situational.
Interesting Builds: Cleric|Invoker is one of the most natural builds - you can be human for the extra Invoker at-will...and pick up a solid AC. Cleric|Fighter to use two-handed weapons. Melee Cleric|Ranger for a 'heal thyself' Str/Wis build that regularly gets +2 to hit and great AC.

Notable Powers

A significant number of 'stat-independent' powers are not. Just that their key effect is so good that it doesn't matter about the rest of the power:
Str-Based At-Will: Righteous Brand(with Power of Skill)
Wis-Based At-Will: Icon of Fear
Str-Based Encounters: Mighty Hew
Wis-Based Encounters: Cause Fear, Fey Beguiling, Deadly Lure, Healer's Reproof
Stat-Independent Encounters: Sever the Source
Con-based Encounter: Valorous Charge
Str-based Dailies: Weapon of Astral Flame, Divine Power, Righteous Might
Wis-based Dailies: Tree of Creation, Firestorm, Sacred Word
Stat-Independent Daily: Moment of Glory(helps if you have Wis, but...), Inspire Fervor, Augment of War, Weapon of the Gods, Servitude in Death(ETV, use on Solos), Beacon of Doom
Stat-Independent Utility: Cloak of Courage

 

Runepriest
Summary: 
Sky blue if mixing with a Str/Con Defender. Serene Runepriest is sky blue also for the mixing of AC via Wis and temp hit points. The Rune of Destruction +1 to hit for all your allies against your marked target is very, very, very nice. Str/Wis otherwise isn't nearly as strong as you're often not going to want to be adjacent to an ally.
Stats: Str/Con or Str/Wis have lots of melee support and work with the class features.
Class Features: Standard Leader qualities+striker-style damage buff+Scale and Light Shield. What's not to like?
Weapon:
 Not much to see here. This should receive an upgrade from the other side in any case.
At-WillsSolid at-wills
Hybrid Feat benefits: Focus Fire with Con Destruction
Interesting Builds: Runepriest|Fighter - they attack you, you should turn into a striker the next round. They don't attack you, you again turn into a striker by getting to attack them.

Notable Powers

Str-Based At-Will: Word of Exchange, Word of Diminishment
Str-Based Encounters: Rune of the Astral Phalanx, Word of Divine Battle
Stat-Independent Encounter: Word of Healing Assault, Rune of Rising Fury
Str-based Dailies: Rune of the Undeniable Dawn, Rune of Warding Light, Rune of the Penultimate Step, Rune of Awakening, Rune of Pacifism
Stat-Independent Utility: Shield of Sacrifice, Protective Scroll, Rune of Astral Winds, Rune of Invigoration, Rune of the Hero's Resolve

 

Sentinels(Druids):
Summary: At worst, this is Druid Dailies/Utilities+Animal Companion. There are at least a couple of options where the character could reasonably be assumed to boost their overall attack almost all the time. The major issue for them is whether or not RAI, they can use Attack Druid Encounter powers. RAW, no problem. DM runs a RAW-only game, ignore regular Druids.
Stats: Wisdom mostly.
Class Features: Standard Leader qualities+bonus to hit or damage with specific options. Animal Companion is solid too.
Implement/Weapon: Decent implement/weapon choice.
At-Wills: Very solid, particularly Magic Stone
Hybrid Feat benefits: Likely spending this on an AC, though Con for AC could be very workable for some dip-based builds
Interesting Builds: Sentinel|Cleric - one slotless implement and a fix for the AC problem. Ranger|Sentinel. Striker+Control+Leader. Con Warlock with 20 Con/16 Wis for a base of 17 AC.
Warning: Hybrid Sentinels only get the Animal Companion and skill bonus - no +1 to hit with some weapons or d12s from Staffs

Notable Powers

Wis-Based At-Wills: Firehawk, Magic Stones
Wis-Based Encounters: Wind Wall, Charm Beast
Wis-based Dailies: Summon Giant Toad, Clinging Drones, Writhing Henge
Stat-Independent Utilities: Verdant Bounty, Bear's Strength, Camouflage Cloak, Eagle's Splendor, Serpent's Cunning, Clear the Chaff, Feywild Sojourn, Elusive Wind
 

 

Shaman
Summary: 
While it might seem a bit weaker than other choices, Spirit Companion is amazing for supporting your Defender when you're a hybrid - unlike a typical Shaman, you're not as dependent on where it is. A party of 5 hybrid Shamans would be really funny to watch in action - capable of doing other things, yet also able to wall people off.
Stats: Wis is important, other stats less so due to the lack of the Spirit Boon.
Class Features: Standard Leader qualities.
Implement:
 Decent, nothing to see here. Totems don't have a lot of support, so you're likely using the other one.
At-Wills: Again, would like some additional choices. Nothing really pops out as amazing.

Hybrid Feat benefits: Very nice hybrid feat benefit with the Spirit Companion, but if you're not taking that hybrid feat, you shouldn't be in Shaman. Taking the hybrid feat, though, means dinging AC badly if you're trying to mix in Defender.
Interesting Builds: Shaman|Controller is very, very strong - you're generally sacrificing a touch of controller by hybriding, yet by gaining the Spirit Companion, you usually end up with a lot more control. Shaman|Ranger with an Alfsair Spear would sacrifice a bit of damage, but would add control. A party composed of at least 2 Shamans can really cause havoc.

Notable Powers

Stat-Independent At-Will: Spirit Infusion(Int)
Wis-Based Encounters: Boar's Toss
Stat-Independent Encounter: Spirit of the Ram
Wis-based Dailies: Sunder Spirit
Stat-Independent Utilities: Medicines of Many Forms
 

 

Warlord
Summary: Wow. Uber-flexible addition to almost anything.
Stats: Int, Wis, Cha, or Str+any of those. Or heck, just Str. Phenomenal.
Class Features: Standard Leader qualities+Combat Leader.
Weapon:
 Generally not a big deal.
At-Wills: Solid at-wills. Can go human for a selection in combo with their other class.
Hybrid Feat benefits: Not much to see here - given most parties use Commanding Presence around 3 times per encounter, only getting to use it once isn't quite so hot and feat supporting something that you can use once per encounter is expensive. Something else is probably more valuable.
Interesting Builds: All over the place. It really does work with anything.

Notable Powers

Stat-Independent At-Will: Direct the Strike
Int-Based At-Will: Commander's Strike
Str-Based Encounters: Hail of Steel, Sudden Assault, Hold that Thought
Stat-Independent Encounters: Powerful Warning, Vengeance is Mine(MBA), Death from Two Sides(MBA), A Plan Comes Together
Str-Based Daily Power: Lamb to the Slaughter
Stat-Independent Daily Power: War Master's Assault(Cha), Victory Surge(Str), Relentless Assault(Str), Break it Up(RBA)
Int-based Utility: Reorient the Axis
Str-based Utility: Draw Their Eyes
Stat-Independent Utilities: Rousing Words, Tactical Orders, Rush of Battle
  

 

 

 

Strikers

 

Strikers usually have a half-striker mechanic going on - they lose a significant chunk of striker damage even if they always use powers from the striker side. As different strikers gain either offensive or defensive benefits(and lose both choices from hybriding), I'm generally looking at the loss of offensive capability as a simple way of measuring the difference.

 

An example of this is Rogue - Str Rogues normally gain +Str to sneak attack damage which happens once per round. They have a +1 to hit that they lose. They lose the automatic CA of going first(which has both offensive and defensive benefits - Rogues who go first don't generally want to move into melee). This is where Assassin really gets dinged as Cha Assassins normally gain +Cha damage to all their attacks. On the other side is Monk, which loses almost nothing, and Ranger which loses a +1 to hit in a somewhat limited situation.

 

Assassin
Summary: If it weren't for ki focuses, it would be red. Oh, wait, that got dinged...the best Assassin options are usually available by hybriding two other classes and then MC'ing into Assassin.
Stats:
 Dex in general is bad because it usually only works with other Strikers and Striker|Striker isn't a great choice.
Class Features: Only gets the usual half-striker capabilities, but gets dinged on hit points and healing surges. If heal were on the skill list, I'd bump it to Purple on irony.
Implement/Weapon: Ki Focus is now one of the best options. A little too poachable by MC Assassin and Monk Feats and Elemental Initiate Theme.
At-Wills: Not much to see here.
Hybrid Feat benefits: Spending the hybrid feat on any of the choices are good ones. But that just represents just how far behind you are.
Interesting Builds: Assassin|Bard. Assassin|Paladin. You won't regret playing these choices as much as all the other ones.

Notable Powers

Dex-Based Encounters: Flurry of Talons(ETV), Shadow Fire(ETV), Shadow Knives
Stat-Independent Utilities: Ghost of the Rooftops

 

Assassin(Executioner)
Summary:
Better than expected
Stats:
Dex in general is bad because it usually only works with other Strikers and Striker|Striker isn't a great choice. If you want to go Essentials|Essentials, that's an upgrade, but Dex/Cha isn't that common.
Class Features: Solid use of MBA counts for a lot.
Implement/Weapon:  Ki Focus is now one of the best options. A little too poachable by MC Assassin Feats
At-Wills: Not much to see here. Mostly specialized weapon use when a hybrid will look for a one-handed option
Hybrid Feat benefits: Technically hard to justify even if you got both possibilities
Notable Powers:
Dex-Based Encounters: Flurry of Talons(ETV based on how many hits do you get), Shadow Fire(ETV based on how many hits do you get), Shadow Knives
Stat-Independent Utilities: Ghost of the Rooftops
Interesting Builds: Assassin|Defender. Assassin|MBA specialist.

Notable Powers

Dex-Based Encounters: Flurry of Talons(ETV), Shadow Fire(ETV), Shadow Knives
Stat-Independent Utilities: Ghost of the Rooftops
 

 

Avenger
Summary: 
This is what you take to make your weak controller tough or give your Avenger something to do when Oath isn't practical.
Stats: Int/Wis or Dex/Wis. Int/Wis works with a lot of the stronger classes. It gets a sky blue because it is one of the few classes that can honestly take a 16 in the primary stat without too many problems, allowing for an 18 in the other one. The race of Human loves this.
Class Features: Typical Half-Striker capabilities.

Weapon/Implement: Normally it would be blue, but there's just enough support to go implement-only. Bond of Censure in particular is a great 'so I'm down to single targets, what do I want to do now?' for Controllers.
At-Wills: Okay at-wills, not especially great. Overwhelming Strike with Power of Skill or Bond of Censure for a controller effect.

Hybrid Feat benefits: +3 AC with a hybrid feat. Upgradable to a total of +5 with 1 more feat? No hand requirements? That's very nice, Sky Blue even if you are wearing Cloth on both sides anyway...

Notable Powers

Wis-Based At-Will: Overwhelming Strike(w/Power of Skill)
Wis-Based Encounters: Raging Tempest(ETV based on how die rolls of damage do you get), Fury's Advance, Relentless Stride, Lifedrinking Covenant, Soulforge Hammering, Spark of Hatred
Wis-Based Utilities: Loyal Sanction
Interesting Builds: Avenger|Controller. Avenger|Swordmage. 

 

Barbarian
Summary: 
Strong basic features make this work well.
Stats: Str and that's basically it, works well with a lot of different classes, especially Defenders who want some Striker capabilities. Most Barbarians won't have their other capabilities as they don't get that for free and they're generally on the weaker side.
Class Features: Unusual Half-Striker capabilities. A downside of hybrid Barbarians is that they lose at least one rage per day and many of their capabilities depend on them being in a rage. On the other hand, Rages are generally on the lousy side.

Weapon: Blue. They've got some issues with weapons vs. hands.
At-Wills: Generally solid at-wills
Hybrid Feat benefits: Armored Agility is very nice - a Str/Dex or Str/Int character

Notable Powers

Str-Based Encounters: Thundering Howl, Storm of Blades, Hurricane of Blades
Str-based Dailies: Rage of the Crimson Hurricane
Interesting Builds: Str/Dex Fighter|Barbarian. Str/Int Barbarian|Warlord. Str/Wis Barbarian|Seeker

 

Blackguard
Summary: One of the better Off-Defender Striker options due to Holy Symbol, their armor, and ability to pick up Divine Sanction. If only they had an at-will option that didn't use a melee weapon...
Stats: Str+Wis or Cha on its own. Lots of options. Given the lack of Lay on Hands, Wis isn't that valuable for the Cha builds.
Class Features: Functional mark for off-defender Melee Attacker|Blackguards and free damage bonus to everything with a Virtue pick.
Implement/Weapon: Has a lot of flexibility with either Holy Symbol or all martial weapons, but potentially being stuck with Versatile Mastery brings this down.
At-Wills: Decent at-wills, but many builds will be trying to figure out how to avoid ever using them. Interesting question at the moment is whether or not you can pick Paladin at-wills instead of being limited to just Virtue choices.

Hybrid Feat benefits: Plate and Heavy Shield
Interesting Builds: Blackguard|Cha Ranged Striker(Warlock or Sorcerer) - can easily function with Str/Cha, Dex/Cha, or Int/Cha for those.

Notable Powers

Cha-Based At-will: Virtuous Strike
Cha-Based Encounters: Valorous Smite, Astral Thunder(Wis), Price of Cowardice, Castigating Strike, Hand of the Gods(Wis), Demand Respect
Str-Based Encounters: Castigating Strike, Champion's Call, Stunning Smite
Cha-Based Daily Powers: Majestic Halo, True Nemesis
Stat-Independent Daily Power: Discipline the Unruly(Cha)
Cha-based Utility: Call of Challenge, Shared Valor
Stat-Independent Utilities: Virtue
  

 

Monk
Summary: Add some striker with a dash of controller to your weapon-using build. May have AC issues.
Stats: Str/Dex - a Striker who has some options! Or Dex/Wis with implements. 
Class Features: Lose the defenses, but unlike a lot of the striker classes, does full Monk damage when hitting people with monk powers.
Weapon/Implement: Implement that turns weapons into magical is now just blue.
At-Wills: Burst 1 at-will that does a lot of damage with the class feature - nice thing to have.
Hybrid Feat benefits: Deceptive. Unarmored Defense doesn't have the support that Armor of Faith does. The other options are Red(you don't actually use real unarmed attacks for anything)
Interesting Builds: Monk|Warden. Monk|Seeker. Monk|Invoker. Lots of other options work. Monk/Ranger can be surprisingly strong either Str/Dex or Dex/Wis depending on focus. Assuming you spend the hybrid talent feat on AC, essentially you're a Monk who has some other capability.
Warning: Monks need either Str or Wis for their hybrid striker feature on OCB. Not actually a rule, though - should be able to take the Con or Cha striker builds.

Notable Powers

Dex-Based At-Wills: Five Storms
Dex-Based Encounters: Drunken Monkey, Dance of the Stinging Hornet(ETV), Furious Bull, Death's Chilled Embrace(ETV), A Feather's Weight(ETV), Fist of the Whirling Tempest, Heart-Sundering Strike(ETV, but almost who cares), 
Dex-Based Dailies: Stunning Palm, Water Gives Way, Lightning Leap, Tsunami Throw
Stat-Independent Utilities: Cat and Mouse, Quicksilver Motion

 

 

Ranger
Summary: Add class features, use Twin Strike.
Stats: Str/Dex or Dex/Wis
Class Features: They get roughly the same striker class features everyone else does, but then on top of it, get powers that take advantage of it.
Weapon:
 Greatbow or Superior Crossbow is nice, but doesn't combine that well with other options. Ditto for two-weapon fighting with many of the other builds.
At-Wills: Twin Strike. Throw and Stab is nice in theory, but I'd really be curious to see someone try to pull that off in game - there are simply going to be situations where there is nothing to throw at and then move up to...Human got a big upgrade with access to an extra-at-will and Archery Mastery to play a bit of controller at the cost of a feat - getting both Twin Strike and Throw and Stab + good MBA option can make this work well.
Hybrid Feat benefits: Not much to see here, mostly for specific feats or paragon paths.
Interesting Builds: Almost anything works, even things crazy suboptimal in theory.

Notable Powers

Str/Dex-Based At-Will: Twin Strike
Str-Based At-Will: Throw & Stab(move+spread damage+mba. Pales before Twin Strike though)
Str/Dex-Based Encounters: Disruptive Strike(Wis)
Str-Based Encounters: Offhand Strike, Ruffling Sting, Offhand Diversion, Nonchalant Collapse, Death Rend
Dex-Based Encounters: Pounding Barrage, Triple Shot, Manticore's Volley
Str-Based Dailies: Blade Cascade, Cruel Cage of Steel
Dex-based Dailies: Five-Missile Dance
Wis-based Utilities: Master of the Hunt
Stat-Independent Utilities: Invigorating Stride(Wis)

 

Rogue
Summary: 
Loses a lot of damage, doesn't necessarily gain a lot, might have issues getting riders.
Stats:
 Str/Dex or Dex/Cha. Dex has issues. On the plus side, both Str and Cha attract a lot of builds.
Class Features: Typical Half-Striker capabilities. Rogue Tactics, +1 to hit with certain weapons, and the First Strike capability are a big loss. Especially as they don't get sneak with MBAs, only Rogue powers.
Weapon:
 Light blade, while can be dealt with by feats, is not the best choice for many of the obvious mixtures. It does generally only take up one hand, so implement users aren't as badly off as they are normally.
At-Wills: At-wills have Light blade issues. They're good, needing that as a base is not.

Hybrid Feat benefits: Rogue Tactics is decent. If you're concentrating on being a Striker, you're going to want to pick this up or else lose all your encounter riders...Rogue Weapon Talent can be handy for certain highly focused builds that could want to use a dagger as an implement(Monks, Sorcerers)
Interesting Builds: Tempest Fighter|Rogue. You gain +1 to hit with offhand weapons, +2 to damage - in effect, you're a dagger rogue who gains the benefit of a slightly bigger weapon and has +1 AC. With a feat for Hide Armor, you have a respectable AC of 18. Rogue|Invoker - Invokers like to daze multiple targets, Rogues like dazed targets. Also gives the hybrid Rogue something to do when there's no CA. Rogue|Sorcerer for all the +1 to hit feats you can pick up, along with the melee/ranged quality of a dagger.
Permastealth could be in theory interesting, but usually it is a party-negative encouraging your DM to be smarter.

Notable Powers

Note: There are a lot of corner-case interesting Rogue at-wills that could be the basis of a build. Ignore them if you're not going there.
Dex-Based At-Wills: Deft Strike(Daring Performer+Arena Champion or Ghostwalker Style+Permastealth), Disheartening StrikePiercing Strike(Elf+Criterion of Balic Practice+Permastealth), Riposte Strike(Vigilante Justice Style or Defender Mark), Sly Flourish(Halfling+Deft Hurler Style)
Dex-Based Encounters: Darting Strike, Low Slash, Startling Offensive, Snap Shot, Stunning Strike, Tumbling Strike, Path of the Blade
Dex-Based Dailies: Press the Advantage, Compel the Craven, Knockout
Stat-Independent Utilities: Tumble, Acrobat's Escape, Counter-Step, Hide in Plain Sight, Anticipate Attack, Leaping Dodge, Shadow Master, Invisible Stalker

 

 

Sorcerer
Summary: 
Stats are a problem. Otherwise, would be Blue.
Stats:
 Str/Cha or Dex/Cha. Secondary stats are very important. Class features give a lot, but that makes Sorcerer very unflexible.
Class Features: Typical Half-Striker capabilities. But better than average due to the Str to AC option.
Weapon/Implement: Dagger and Staves are not the best possible weapon choices. But better than nothing.
At-Wills: Solid at-wills, but not exceptional. You'll feel like you want two. Human Cha builds with an AC option are very solid.

Hybrid Feat benefits: Okay. Some decent benefits are hiding in the Soul of the Sorcerer option, especially the riders.
Interesting Builds: Blackguard(or Paladin)Sorcerer. Bard|Sorcerer.
Warning: Hybrid Sorcerers almost always need Str or Dex as secondary stat

Notable Powers

Cha-Based Encounters: Lightning Cuts, Spark Form, Thunder Summons
Stat-Independent Encounter: Flame Spiral(Cha)
Cha-Based Dailies: Slaad's Gambit, Thunder Leap, Lightning Daggers, Entropic Whirlwind
Stat-Independent Dailies: Cloak of Winter Storm(Cha)
Dex-based Utilities: Dominant Winds
Str-based Utilities: Draconic Majesty, Platinum Scales
Stat-Independent Utilities: Dragonflame Mantle, Sudden Scales, Chaotic Defense(Cha), Maiden's Waking, Elemental Rift

 

Vampire
Summary: Lots of nice features, if only there wasn't that only having 2 surges issue and likely not wanting Vampire encounter powers. If you're going Vampire, you're doing this because your game typically has 4-6 encounters per day, not because you have 2-3.
Stats: Dex or Cha. You get one at-will from Vampire and it will be either Dex or Cha. Not too bad other than it might limit Daily choice.
Class Features: Solid, again, just two surges being the limiting problem and needing to get a Vampire feat to make up for it. Hurts to lose Vampire Reflexes though given only getting Cloth.

Implement/Weapon: Ki Focus is now one of the best options. A little too poachable by MC Assassin Feats, but you get Holy Symbol as well? Two off-slot implements and a shield bonus means lots of options for picking items for your hands.
At-Wills: At-wills are all decent.

Hybrid Feat benefits: Near worthless. You really want Darkvision that badly, be a Drow which is one of the best races for Vampires.
Interesting Builds: Paladin(or Blackguard)|Vampire. Martial|Vampires can end up being really tough via the Martial Vampire feat.
Warning: Many hybrid Vampires will suck and not in the blood kind of way.

Notable Powers

Dex-Based At-Wills: Vampire Slam
Cha-Based At-Wills: Dark Beckoning
Cha-Based Dailies: Domineering Gaze
 

 

Warlock
Summary: Not bad. Has some stat issues and the loss of defensive values and boons hurts.
Stats: Cha/Int works well with many things. Con/Int, not so much, Cha/Con can be fun, too.
Class Features: Keep most of the striker capabilities, but lose the defensive values.

Implement: Standard implement fare.
At-Wills: Okay at-wills, not especially great. Especially in the context that the Con/Int side lacks support.
Hybrid Feat benefits:
 Shadow Walk is solid. Prime Shot might be necessary for feat support.
Interesting Builds: Warlock|Paladin. Melee + Ranged options. Warlock|Invoker - a bit strange, but Con/Wis isn't too bad if you get some AC via the usual Hexhammer methods while triggering Pact Boons...Warlock|Battlemind - use Warlock's ability to control movement to force things into spots where Battlemind's mark is more useful.

Notable Powers

Cha-Based Encounters: Delban's Deadly Attention, Otherwind Stride, Touch of Command, Web of Lies
Con-Based Encounters: Banish to the Void
Cha-Based Daily Power: Crown of Stars, Deathly Conduit, Delusions of Loyalty, Passionate Betrayal, Curse of the Twin Princes, Curse of the Dark Delirium
Con-Based Daily: Vestige of Baatar, Feast of Souls, Vestige of the Onyx Queen
Cha/Con-Based Daily: Word of the Sorcerer-King
Stat-Independent Utilities: Ethereal Sidestep, Infuriating Elusiveness
 

Unusual Interactions

 

Pick a race that gives you a +2 to both primaries or have a really good reason as to why not - human with its two at-wills is often a really god reason. Not needing a significant to-hit chance is another one. Avenger with its two hit rolls and Seeker with Inexorable Shot for attacks on a miss are good reasons. If having a 20 in your primary stat is important to you as a player, don't combine two classes that need 20s in two different primary stats.

Armor Class. Resolve Armor Class - are you spending your hybrid feat or not on this? Do you have an AC good enough to fill either of your expected roles? A Defender|Controller might not be able to go toe to toe as long as a normal Defender, but if they don't have the AC, they'll fall quickly. Overcome your weaknesses - is there a problem for your class? Does a particular item, feat, multiclass, or paragon path resolve this? One quick trick is if you have proficiency with Staff Implements is carrying an Aversion Staff in your offhand - if you're someone who typically throws a lot of effects around(marks, curses, etc...) - anyone under an effect from you means you have a +2 item bonus against all attacks from them.

Use Compendium - Compendium can let you do very controlled searches via keywords.

------- 

 

 

Here's an example - Fighter|Bard. The issue for Fighter is that unless you find some way to mark outside your Fighter attacks, you won't be able to mark, which greatly limits your ability to use Bard melee attacks.

So let's take a look: Dragonborn is the obvious racial choice - it gets us +2 Str and +2 Cha, our two primary stats. But as we'll later see, Half-Elf, Human, Changeling, or Tiefling can be excellent choices as well. Armor Class - our base is 17 with Chain+Light Shield. That's not particularly great for a Defender, but it is probably good enough to avoid spending the Hybrid feat on the upgrade to Scale+Heavy Shield. It could be an issue to resolve.

Weakness - Fighter has that big weakness - if we're in melee using a Bard power, we want the option of marking our target. First, let's pick up the obvious feat - Soldier of Faith - that gives us a mark to use once per combat that will both trigger Divine Challenge and Combat Challenge if someone violates the mark. That's great. Let's do some searches of Compendium:
Bard Mark - Daring Blade

 

 

Fighter Charisma - Harlequin Style, Avenging Slayer, Daring Blade 

That Daring Blade sounds like it is almost perfect - it lets us use Charisma for martial melee attacks(i.e. most Fighter attacks) - that opens up other +2 Charisma races as options and other stats as secondary options. But we do need to wait until Paragon. We can overcome that partially with Melee Training(Charisma). Hybrid Training on the Fighter side might give a nice bonus to hit with the Charisma powers. On the Bard side, might let us use one of the virtues effectively.

 

 

Those are the things to look for....

 

Cursed Mixtures



Striker|Striker: While there are builds where this works well, many strikers lose either irreplaceable defenses or damage by hybriding. And with some builds, it gets dinged twice. An example of this is the Rogue|Assassin. It might look like they get to build up shrouds, but with each hit, they're losing:
+Cha to damage, a +1 to hit, Riders on both sets of powers, the ability to go insubstantial, the ability to teleport from creature to creature, and the bonus to defenses vs OAs.

In combo with the controller-like hit points and surges of Assassin, that lack of defenses is a really big deal...

Monk, Ranger and to a lesser extent Sorcerer and Avenger managed to mostly avoid this fate. Warlock, Rogue, and Assassin, classes that everyone agreed were massively overpowered, got whacked hard with the nerf bat...

Controller|Controller: Not as bad as Striker|Striker. The big issue is mainly that Controllers tend to have a good selection of powers, so they're generally losing a class feature in exchange for larger selection. Which they don't need.

Ranged|Melee: It sounds good in theory to be able to make ranged attacks and melee attacks, but a lot of people overinvest in them without gaining synergy. This can turn particularly nasty when the character can't use one of the powers and therefore sucks. An example of this is the ranged specialist who  then hybrids into another class for toughness and some melee options. He's now significantly worse at his original role(ranged specialist) for something that doesn't generally benefit him all that much - he runs out of ranged encounters much faster and once he does, he doesn't have the range of at-wills to use.

The exceptions to this are as follows:
The class is that good. Ranger as an example. Who cares if you're stuck with Twin Strike as your only at-will after you run out of ranged encounter powers?

There is some form of unusual synergy that happens that regardless of whether or not one class is ranged or melee, it adds something to the other class. A Paladin as an example, can easily add Divine Challenge and significant AC to a ranged build. Paladin is really only dependent on Charisma. So a Sorcerer|Paladin with Mighty Challenge and Str/Cha can easily overcome the lack of riders. Doing 20 points of Divine Challenge damage in Epic will get your Blazing Starfall noticed.

Things to Avoid
2 primary stats of the same defense.
Primary stats are the dump stat of the other class. Especially if one of the classes has a strong secondary, such as Sorcerer, Monk, etc...strong secondary stats can be identified usually because the stat has an influence on every single combat round as opposed to once an encounter.
Neither use armor and the primaries aren't Dex or Int or the special defensive stat. Double negative points if the build wants to melee.
Both classes want their hands full for different reasons.
Paragon Hybrid option. This really is about either doing one of two things: breaking the game or being suboptimal. There's a reason why Half-Elf builds for paragon multiclassing aren't especially popular on CharOp and they gain much of the same kind of things from doing it and even more flexibility. i.e. not very good.

Discovery


In terms of what I call Interesting Builds, this reflects one(or more) of the following rules in play:
  • Reasonably competent at both roles, such that the build easily makes a party work. Classic 5th party member. Striker|X and Leader|X work here. Examples: Sorcerer|Warlord or Swordmage|Artificer.

  • Extremely competent at one of the roles, such that the build can be slotted into the party as that role. It either has to do something unique via synergy or do it better than either of the base classes. Defender|X, especially involving Fighter or Striker as the X work well here. Examples: Battlemind|Fighter or Warden|Barbarian.

  • Be good at one of the roles, but be more fun than the base class that defines that role. Ranger|not-striker or Leader|X are examples of this. Examples: Archer Ranger|Bard, Monk|Cleric.




Miscibility Table: A Hybrid's Handbook
Hybrids mix, but not as expected

There are a few options that make sense for Paragon Hybrid - even the best really do end up resembling top-tier paragon paths without the action point option. The general categories that I think compete best are:
+1 to hit with weapons. In combo with Arcane Implement Proficiency, each other, or a class not expecting an additional +1(i.e. controller), this can have very useful results. Rune Master is here simply because Rune of Destruction is that good. It is likely though that someone can afford to pick up Rune Master by combining it with a class that grants Scale in the 1st place. I'm leaving out Ranger and Warlock because they need a feat investment to increase Prime Shot. That could be worth it for the right build. Those classes are:
Fighter: Gains +1 to hit with almost any weapon type(aka staff)
Seeker: Gains +1 to hit with thrown weapons
Rogue: Gains +1 to hit with daggers, crossbows, or slings
Rune Master: Grant all allies a +1 to hit with Rune of Destruction active when enemies are adjacent to you.

Significant Armor bonus that doesn't assume you're wearing armor. They stack with each other and can therefore get some really powerful bonuses. Swordmage can actually work with other armored classes and solve some other issues as well - an example of this is the Brawler Fighter|Swordmage. +4 base to AC, Int for AC, eventual 13 Con for Hide Armor, and all the various Swordmage AC boosters.
Avenger: Gains unusually large independent AC bonus via additional feats.
Monk: Gain significant independent AC bonus via additional feats.
Swordmage: Gain unusually large independent AC bonus via additional feats

Shaman: Companion Spirit. The advantage of this class feature is for a Defender(or almost anyone else for that matter) to place the Companion Spirit 3 squares away from a Defender. This then blocks off a huge amount of real estate on the board, making it very difficult for enemies to get past the Defender without taking OAs. You don't want to be a Defender/Shaman as you'll take a big hit on the Defenses, but great for all kinds of mischief.

---------

Corner-case problems:
Assassin/Warlock: Cursed Shadow grants Shadow Walk feat. While this appears intended for Assassin/Warlock hybrids, it is actually available elsewhere.
Ranger: Throw and Stab. Throw is Ranger, Stab is something else, allowing builds to exploit both striker and their other hybrid class with one standard action.

 

Friendly Hybrid Summoned



I think there are 3 specific things to do which will make a significant percentage of hybrids work regardless of actual player or build skill:
Make your stats work. 18s in all primary stats should be the general goal. With some specific exceptions(classes that get big bonuses from a secondary stat every round), you can often dump secondary stats.

Figure out where your AC is coming from - many hybrids destroy AC. Non-defenders should ask themselves how they're getting at least Chainmail quality AC, Defenders should be 2 higher.

Decide your role in the party - the best hybrids do one of three things:
Be 90% of one role and a good 40% of the other. An Archer Ranger|Bard does many of the things that a typical Archer Ranger does with additional great interrupt choices as an example.

Be 80% of both - the ultimate 5th member of a party. A Warden|Avenger is an off-defender who does okay striker damage and has an easy route to AC(Hybrid Talent for Hide+Heavy Shield+Wis to AC) as an example.

Combine two of the same role for 100% of a role. Does not usually work with Strikers due to each side being a half-striker and Leaders eventually lose a heal. Fighter|Paladin.


Two-stat combinations, if I'm not mistaken, are:

STR, DEX, Barbarian (Whirling), Fighter (Blade, flail, spear), Monk (Stone Fist), Ranger (Balanced), Rogue (Brutal), 
Races:
 Half-orc, Bugbear
STR, CON,
 Barbarian (Rageblood, Thunderborn), Fighter (Axe, Hammer, Pick), Runepriest (Wrathful), Warden (Earth, Storm) 
Races: Goliath, Minotaur, Orc, Warforged
STR, INT,
 Swordmage (Assault), Warlord (Tactical)
Races: Genasi   
STR, WIS, Cleric (balanced), Fighter (Polearm, Opportunist), Paladin (STR-adin), Ranger (Melee/Hurling), Runepriest (Defiant), Seeker (Spiritbond), Warden (Wildblood, Lifespirit)
Races: Longtooth Shifter, Minotaur   
STR, CHA, Barbarian (Thaneborn), Cleric (Battle), Paladin (Balanced), Sorcerer (Dragon, Cosmic), Warlord (Inspiring), 
Races: Dragonborn   
DEX, CON, -  
Races: Gnoll, Kobold

DEX, INT, Rogue (Cunning), Wizard (Wand)  
Races: Eladrin   
DEX, WIS, Avenger (Pursuit), Druid (Predator), Monk (Centered), Seeker (Spiritbond) 
Races:
 Elf, Githzerai, Razorclaw Shifter, Wilden, 
DEX, CHA, Rogue (Artful), Sorcerer (Storm, Wild)  
Races: Drow, Goblin, Halfling   
CON, INT, Warlock (CON-lock), Wizard (Staff, Summoning), Swordmage (Warding), Artificer 
Races: 
Githyanki
CON, WIS, Battlemind (Resilient), Druid (Guardian), Invoker (Wrath) 
Races: Dwarf, Wilden   
CON, CHA, Ardent (Elation), Bard (Valorous), Battlemind (Resilient), Warlock (Balanced) 
Races:
 Half-Elf, Hobgoblin
INT, WIS, Avenger (Retribution), Invoker (Preserver), Shaman (Stalker), Psion (Telekinetic), Wizard (Orb, General), Artificer
Races: Deva, Githzerai, Shardmind   
INT, CHA, Bard (Cunning), Psion (Telepathic), Warlock (CHA-lock), Wizard (Illusionist) 
Races: Doppelganger, Gnome, Shardmind, Tiefling
WIS, CHA, Bard (Prescient), Cleric (Ranged), Paladin (CHA-ladin), Shaman (Protector) 
Races: -  



Cool, looking forward to seeing this fleshed out.  I guess I'll point out that there's something weird with a few font tags in the second post, in case you weren't aware.
Cool, looking forward to seeing this fleshed out.  I guess I'll point out that there's something weird with a few font tags in the second post, in case you weren't aware.



Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what the heck is going on there - I don't see it in the preview, it just shows up when I post it. And the more I try to fix it, the worse it gets. I may just have to retype everything.
I'm looking forward to the guide, but mostly I wanted to give you props for the 1e/2e potion miscibility references.  I hope you keep those section titles in the finished guide
Cool, looking forward to seeing this fleshed out.  I guess I'll point out that there's something weird with a few font tags in the second post, in case you weren't aware.



Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what the heck is going on there - I don't see it in the preview, it just shows up when I post it. And the more I try to fix it, the worse it gets. I may just have to retype everything.


You can try copying the text, pasting into notepad, and then copying from notepad bad into your post; that should remove formatting.  Then you just need to add formatting back in.

Alternately, if you know HTML you can hit the HTML button in the editor and alter the HTML directly; the editor sometimes adds in things that it shouldn't that you can't edit out any other way.
Under Sample Ability Spreads you might consider adding the 'iconic' 17 15 13 10 10 8 stat distribution.  For 14 out of 30 levels it's top knotch, and especially relevant if you allow ability score retraining (such as with LFR).
Can't wait to see this fleshed out!
Can't wait to see this fleshed out!



As PHB3 is going to have rules for all the various PHB3 classes in terms of hybrids, I'm going to hold off until it is released.

Normally, I wouldn't have done that, but Monk appears to have possibilities of rewriting the entire handbook. i.e. ki focus or weapon proficient with as implement. Wow. And there are the psionic rules to consider as well for doing hybrids.
Okay -- Are you still studying PHB3?  There is a lot to digest there.  Add in the Dragon article about Assassins,  and I count 300 possible hybrid class combinations -- most of which can be made viable.  So far the worst combination I have come up with is Seeker|Warlock.  Has anyone else come up with anything that is even worse?
Seeker|Warlock doesn't seem like *that* huge of a stretch to me. Warlocks are better as hybrids than they are primary classes, and your combination makes for a striker|controller that can function at range and still maintain decent proficiencies and hit/damage rolls by simply picking a race that uses Wis and Cha or Con (Dwarf? Wilden?)  

Anyhow, my opinion is that Psion|Druid would be the worst. Terrible proficiencies, horrible ability score alignment, zero interesting uses of Hybrid Talent, and no real class features to speak of. You'd be a controller, sure, but... probably about as poor in that role as a class is possible of being.

Another possibility is Druid|Sorcerer. You'd need to have Wis and Cha, but be forced into cloth proficiencies. A Dex mutual secondary would add *something* to the defenses and general functionality of this build, but as a 3rd stat, it's probably about as bad as you could do. And if you pick con/str? Heaven help you.

For the Seeker/Warlock, the chief problem seems to be what to hold in your hands -- you either need to be swapping between a bow and an implement, or you need a thrown weapon -- which won't return to you after you throw it.

The Druid/Sorcerer is also pretty bad,, primarily because of the AC issue.


The Druid/Psion does not seem too bad, though.  Intelligence and wisdom are primary, and you can use your hybrid talent to get hide armor (which for me would make it a mediocre choice -- I prefer the combinations where you have no real reason to bother with the AC boosting option).  You can use a totem as an implement for all of your powers, which would make your character look like a druid -- with some nasty surprises in store for foes when he reverts from beast form to humanoid form.
 

Actually, what you want is a hand crossbow and an implement, plus Two-Fisted Shooter.  Slight feat tax, but TFS is good for Seekers anyway.

Or a PACT BOW!  Remember those?
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
Actually, what you want is a hand crossbow and an implement, plus Two-Fisted Shooter.  Slight feat tax, but TFS is good for Seekers anyway.

Or a PACT BOW!  Remember those?



Yes, but you have problems at 1st level.  What do you take as your initial feat?  Without Shadow Walk as your hybrid talent you are way too easy to hit.  I guess you can do without an implement until you can get an appropriate magic weapon.
Yes, but you have problems at 1st level.  What do you take as your initial feat?  Without Shadow Walk as your hybrid talent you are way too easy to hit.  I guess you can do without an implement until you can get an appropriate magic weapon.


At first level, just be down an at-will.  You can have one at-will, your encounter, and your daily all for the same class; just do that until 2.  A little painful, but could be worse.

Initial feat is Hybrid Talent: Shadow Walk.  Which you then retrain at level 2, and replace it with oh look I'm a ranged striker let's not get close up.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
You don't need to weild an implement or have hands free to use implement powers, and at 1st to 2nd level you can make do without an enhancement bonus.  Just carry a bow or crossbow and use your warlock powers without an implement until you can pick up either a pact bow or TFS.
Psi Powerpoint classes have a (very) minor trick available.

EDIT - I got close, but it's only for Paragon Multiclass. Dang that's complicated.

Non-Psi Class hybrid Psi P P Class
is down 2 pp at 3rd level.
But it is down just 1 pp at 17th level, if all the psi power picks are as high a level as possible.
Then at 23rd level, again if all the psi power picks are as high a level as possible,
it actually goes up 1 pp, and keeps it at 27th level, provided retraining to the top at-will.

Non-Psi Class hybrid Psi P P Class, with multiclass into a psi p p class
and pick the Aug At-will feat that subs it for the Encounter slot,
and restricts the At-will to just 1/enc,
also gets the powerpoints that the above hybrid combo gets.

All in all, you get
1 non-psi At-will
1 non-psi Enc
3 psi p p At-wills (1 of which could be a 3rd class just 1/enc)

Weird.
Not necessarily any good at any thing, but possibly useful.

Here comes your 19th forums breakdown ... ohh who's to blame, it ain't 5E driving you insane.

 

I should have time next week to work on this.

But as for worst? I'd generally point out that the following have major problems:
2 primary stats of the same defense.
Primary stats are the dump stat of the other class
Neither use armor and the primaries aren't Dex or Int or the special defensive stat. Double negative points if the build wants to melee.
Both classes want their hands full for different reasons.

I think that puts Avenger|Sorcerer in a fairly nasty spot...feats can initially make up for the AC issues, but when it comes right down to it, the build isn't leveling Str, Dex, or Int...Sorcerer is getting dinged by Wisdom, Avenger has no use for Cha. Avenger wants a big weapon, Sorcerer is looking for a dagger or staff.
When you fill out your section on Warlords, make sure to include the Armor cheesing I mention in this thread: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

19AC for any class without having to spend your hybrid talent, is stupidly spicy. So much so, it will be errated eventually.
Warlords also have a choice of INT, WIS, or CHA riders depending on character build.

That just leaves DEX and CON

Stat-wise, based on primary stat and riders, we'd have this class table (assuming you pick the builds that fit together best):

7-Near-perfect synergy: Barbarian (STR/CHA, STR/CHA), Cleric [battle] (STR/WIS, STR/WIS), Fighter (STR/WIS, STR/WIS), Paladin (STR/CHA, STR/CHA), Ranger (STR/WIS, STR/WIS), Runepriest (STR/WIS, STR/WIS), Warden (STR/WIS, STR/WIS)

3-Good synergy: Seeker (STR/WIS, WIS/STR), Sorcerer (STR/CHA, CHA/STR), Swordmage (STR/INT, INT/STR)

9-Moderate synergy: Ardent (STR/CHA+WIS, CHA/WIS), Artificer (STR/INT+WIS, INT/WIS), Avenger (STR/WIS+INT, WIS/INT), Bard (STR/INT+CHA, INT/CHA), Invoker (STR/WIS+INT, WIS/INT), Psion (STR/INT+WIS+CHA, INT/WIS+CHA), Shaman (STR/WIS+INT, WIS/INT), Warlock (STR/CHA+INT, CHA/INT), Wizard (STR/INT+WIS, INT/WIS)

4-Subpar: Druid (STR/WIS, WIS/DEX); Monk (STR/WIS, DEX/STR+WIS), Rogue (STR/CHA, DEX/STR+CHA); Battlemind (STR/WIS, CON/WIS)

All of the black combinations use STR+CHA+INT or STR+WIS+INT, which covers all three defenses with primary/secondary riders; that's not a bad situation to be in.

We can see that warlords have potentially perfect stat synergy with classes in three out of four roles, and one good controller stat synergy, although not all build combinations work within those pairings (e.g., archer warlord + archer ranger = STR/INT, DEX/WIS, worse off than Battlemind). I think Warlords are pretty good for hybridizing.
The notorious tjhairball of legend and lore.
When you fill out your section on Warlords, make sure to include the Armor cheesing I mention in this thread: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

19AC for any class without having to spend your hybrid talent, is stupidly spicy. So much so, it will be errated eventually.



That's what the Warlord gets for sacrificing Combat Leader...

I'm not sure that it is all that great. There are probably a few builds where it makes a lot of sense, but you'd have a 17 AC by just spending a feat on Unarmored Agility and that means you add +Int to Initiative for the entire party in Paragon/Epic. Unless you've got Warlord infestations in your group, I'd rather see the +Init guy than the Battlefield Shift guy at my table... 
Well I feel like I'm stealing, so if you're right, then great.
Once the CB gets updated I'm going to have a go at a STR/WIS Seeker|Warlord thrown weapon build.

With the advent of Dwarven Throwers, you can get a decent thrown weapon - ranged mordenkrand or executioners axe anyone?

Pick up the seeker hybrid talent to get STR mod to AC and +1 to hit with thrown weapons (and to warlord thrown weapon powers as well.)

Thinking of going minotaur for the perception boost - and the epic feat which uses perception for initiative check.

MC into fighter for pit fighter and eterenal defender for a decent damage boost and throwing very big hammers or axes.

Take risky shot for warlord at-will - weap +str + wis damage at range, all for minor cost of granting CA.

Some healing, some controlling and the ability to mix up melee as well as ranged and some fairly decent damage all in one package.



I should have time next week to work on this.

But as for worst? I'd generally point out that the following have major problems:
2 primary stats of the same defense.
Primary stats are the dump stat of the other class
Neither use armor and the primaries aren't Dex or Int or the special defensive stat. Double negative points if the build wants to melee.
Both classes want their hands full for different reasons.

I think that puts Avenger|Sorcerer in a fairly nasty spot...feats can initially make up for the AC issues, but when it comes right down to it, the build isn't leveling Str, Dex, or Int...Sorcerer is getting dinged by Wisdom, Avenger has no use for Cha. Avenger wants a big weapon, Sorcerer is looking for a dagger or staff.



I agree with the last two, but I think you are overstating the first two.

For 2 primary stats of the same defense -- many single class builds already have that problem.  Many hybrids can compensate a bit for weak defenses from having choices of where to assign their class defense bonuses.  Every character is going to have at least one defense lag behind the others in the long run.

Primary stats are the dump stat of the other class -- while it is nice to have stats that complement the class functions, the only absolute necessities are to make your attack stats reasonably high (and keep boosting them at every opportunity) and -- the AC bit covered in your third item.

Let me first note that I'm not saying any of the problems I listed will make or break a hybrid. They're warning signs that something could be horribly wrong.

For 2 primary stats of the same defense -- many single class builds already have that problem.  Many hybrids can compensate a bit for weak defenses from having choices of where to assign their class defense bonuses.  Every character is going to have at least one defense lag behind the others in the long run.



Single classes that take the same defense are getting rewarded exceptionally so for doing so - the designers recognize that a character investing in say Wis/Cha is getting dinged. They're not doing that for hybrids. Someone who is taking from two different classes had better be getting some exceptional and unusual synergy or taking two classes that benefit from taking those two defenses. As an example, a Wis/Cha Paladin|Cleric.

Primary stats are the dump stat of the other class -- while it is nice to have stats that complement the class functions, the only absolute necessities are to make your attack stats reasonably high (and keep boosting them at every opportunity) and -- the AC bit covered in your third item.



The hybrid won't be getting any secondary/tertiary stat benefits compared to other hybrids who will get them. An example of this is again the Avenger|Sorcerer - by advancing Wisdom, Str/Dex suffers, creating the AC problem but also nerfing Sorcerer damage bonus. By advancing Charisma, Dex/Int suffers, again creating the AC bonus and losing a lot of riders on Avenger powers.

At the very least, you're writing off riders on powers, which should at least be limiting choice for no significant benefit. 
OK I can think of one other warning sign:

Be cautious if the two sides of your hybrid draw power from different power sources (such as Invoker|Wizard).  That often makes it difficult to boost all of your powers since abilities that boost your powers are often keyed to a specific power type (such as arcane).  Be exceptionally cautious, if you are drawing from two different powersources and almost all of your powers are implement powers.

Even so, doing this is not always a bad thing.  Paladin|Warlocks (esp Chaladin|Starlocks) are a good combo and arguably stronger than either a pure Chaladin or pure Starlock.  However, this is a bit of a special case leading me to.....

When considering a hybrid LOOK for the following:

1.  Classes that get all or almost all of their class power from their powers and not their class abilities (and may not even have meaningful class abilities).  The wizard is the posterchild here.  You lose little if any control potential if you hybrid a wizard providing the other side of the hybrid can support it (swordmage, artificer, taclord all can).

2.  Classes whose class features survived hybridization virtually untouched.  Example:  Swordmage.  Given that the swordmage hybrid aegis is almost as good (and in most cases as good) as the normal swordmage aegis, there is little reason not to play a hybrid swordmage if you want to play one assuming the other half of the class supports it (wizard and artificer are the two obvious choices)

3.  Classes that in pure form might otherwise underperform, but when taken together fill each other's holes.  The example I'm thinking of is the Chaladin|Starlock.  The Starlock gives the Chaladin reach and control ability that the Chaladin normally lacks along with the ability to ignore strength.  The Chaladin gives the Starlock the heaviest armor in the game (for a hybrid talent) which permits the Starlock to boost his Con and Cha both with impunity without taking a hit in his armor class.  Furthermore especially with the Crimson line of feats, the ability to mark at a distance, and then used ranged or strong melee attacks (often with divine sanction which is not affected by hybridization) allows for unmatched flexibility.  I mention this after playing one since it's one example of how two relatively weak single-classes hybrid into a very potent hybrid.

-Polaris

Throwing in my 2 cents.  Hybrid Assassin is the greatest Striker/Striker hybrid you can possibly add, in my opinion.  It's the only striker that adds bonus damage no matter which attack you use; Rogues require a rogue power to use sneak attack, Rangers require a ranger power to use quarry damage, etc, etc., however Assassins Shrouds don't matter what power you're using to tack on that extra damage.  The only limitation is to 2 shrouds.

There are 3 builds I've been working  on in heroic tier, The Ninja (Assassin/Monk), The Sniper (Assassin/Ranger), and the DPR machine (Assassin/Rogue).  The nice part about the latter 2 is you can make the build work extremely well and only focus on DEX, allowing you to really boost your abilitys, go human and gain 3 at-wills, complimentary feat, etc.

This is all from a static/rules/game only approach, not from a flavor context but dang am I kind of excited to try any of these hybrid options out. 
Throwing in my 2 cents.  Hybrid Assassin is the greatest Striker/Striker hybrid you can possibly add, in my opinion.  It's the only striker that adds bonus damage no matter which attack you use;  



This was changed.  Please look at the compiled version.
OK I can think of one other warning sign:

Be cautious if the two sides of your hybrid draw power from different power sources (such as Invoker|Wizard).  That often makes it difficult to boost all of your powers since abilities that boost your powers are often keyed to a specific power type (such as arcane).  Be exceptionally cautious, if you are drawing from two different powersources and almost all of your powers are implement powers.

Even so, doing this is not always a bad thing.  Paladin|Warlocks (esp Chaladin|Starlocks) are a good combo and arguably stronger than either a pure Chaladin or pure Starlock.  However, this is a bit of a special case leading me to.....

When considering a hybrid LOOK for the following:

1.  Classes that get all or almost all of their class power from their powers and not their class abilities (and may not even have meaningful class abilities).  The wizard is the posterchild here.  You lose little if any control potential if you hybrid a wizard providing the other side of the hybrid can support it (swordmage, artificer, taclord all can).

2.  Classes whose class features survived hybridization virtually untouched.  Example:  Swordmage.  Given that the swordmage hybrid aegis is almost as good (and in most cases as good) as the normal swordmage aegis, there is little reason not to play a hybrid swordmage if you want to play one assuming the other half of the class supports it (wizard and artificer are the two obvious choices)

3.  Classes that in pure form might otherwise underperform, but when taken together fill each other's holes.  The example I'm thinking of is the Chaladin|Starlock.  The Starlock gives the Chaladin reach and control ability that the Chaladin normally lacks along with the ability to ignore strength.  The Chaladin gives the Starlock the heaviest armor in the game (for a hybrid talent) which permits the Starlock to boost his Con and Cha both with impunity without taking a hit in his armor class.  Furthermore especially with the Crimson line of feats, the ability to mark at a distance, and then used ranged or strong melee attacks (often with divine sanction which is not affected by hybridization) allows for unmatched flexibility.  I mention this after playing one since it's one example of how two relatively weak single-classes hybrid into a very potent hybrid.

-Polaris




Those all make sense to me except I think the different power sources isn't that large of a deal. The roles are more of an issue. Striker/Striker and Controller/Controller generally sacrifice class features for a larger set of choices. Which usually don't add up. Different implements can be awesome, though - holy symbols in particular mean two free hands for arcane casters...

Throwing in my 2 cents.  Hybrid Assassin is the greatest Striker/Striker hybrid you can possibly add, in my opinion.  It's the only striker that adds bonus damage no matter which attack you use; Rogues require a rogue power to use sneak attack, Rangers require a ranger power to use quarry damage, etc, etc., however Assassins Shrouds don't matter what power you're using to tack on that extra damage.  The only limitation is to 2 shrouds. 



That has been updated. The striker damage is limited to only assassin powers. I wasn't a big fan of Assassin hybrid - you generally lose roughly shroud damage by going hybrid in the first place, so what you're really doing is killing your defensive values for a little extra damage.
A note: If Longtooth Shifter is blue on account of stats, Minotaur should be too, given they have the option of +STR/WIS. (Which is pretty well supported.) Especially given they have excellent racial support for charging, which is the cornerstone of some reasonably functional hybrid combinations - cross-class chargers. (E.g., Throw and Stab barbarian.)
The notorious tjhairball of legend and lore.
OK I can think of one other warning sign:

Be cautious if the two sides of your hybrid draw power from different power sources (such as Invoker|Wizard).  That often makes it difficult to boost all of your powers since abilities that boost your powers are often keyed to a specific power type (such as arcane).  Be exceptionally cautious, if you are drawing from two different powersources and almost all of your powers are implement powers.



I ran into a similar problem with an arcane/arcane multiclass (bard into artificer).  Many feats that are class specific are far less useful to hybrids and multiclassers -- to the point that most such feats are not taken.  Rather than count multiple power sources as a liability, I would count feat overlap for same power source as a plus for certain combinations.
Well, with levels being attached to TWO stat bumps, this might be helpful:

Two-stat combinations, if I'm not mistaken, are:

STR, DEX, Barbarian (Whirling), Fighter (Blade, flail, spear), Monk (Stone Fist), Ranger (Balanced), Rogue (Brutal),
Races:
Half-orc, Bugbear
STR, CON, Barbarian (Rageblood, Thunderborn), Fighter (Axe, Hammer, Pick), Runepriest (Wrathful), Warden (Earth, Storm)
Races: Goliath, Minotaur, Orc, Warforged
STR, INT,
Swordmage (Assault), Warlord (Tactical)
Races: Genasi   
STR, WIS, Cleric (balanced), Fighter (Polearm, Opportunist), Paladin (STR-adin), Ranger (Melee/Hurling), Runepriest (Defiant), Seeker (Spiritbond), Warden (Wildblood, Lifespirit)
Races: Longtooth Shifter, Minotaur   
STR, CHA, Barbarian (Thaneborn), Cleric (Battle), Paladin (Balanced), Sorcerer (Dragon, Cosmic), Warlord (Inspiring),
Races: Dragonborn   
DEX, CON, -  
Races: Gnoll, Kobold

DEX, INT, Rogue (Cunning), Wizard (Wand)  
Races: Eladrin   
DEX, WIS, Avenger (Pursuit), Druid (Predator), Monk (Centered), Seeker (Spiritbond)
Races:
Elf, Githzerai, Razorclaw Shifter, Wilden,
DEX, CHA, Rogue (Artful), Sorcerer (Storm, Wild)  
Races: Drow, Goblin, Halfling   
CON, INT, Warlock (CON-lock), Wizard (Staff, Summoning), Swordmage (Warding), Artificer
Races:
Githyanki
CON, WIS, Battlemind (Resilient), Druid (Guardian), Invoker (Wrath)
Races: Dwarf, Wilden   
CON, CHA, Ardent (Elation), Bard (Valorous), Battlemind (Resilient), Warlock (Balanced)
Races:
Half-Elf, Hobgoblin
INT, WIS, Avenger (Retribution), Invoker (Preserver), Shaman (Stalker), Psion (Telekinetic), Wizard (Orb, General), Artificer
Races: Deva, Githzerai, Shardmind   
INT, CHA, Bard (Cunning), Psion (Telepathic), Warlock (CHA-lock), Wizard (Illusionist)
Races: Doppelganger, Gnome, Shardmind, Tiefling
WIS, CHA, Bard (Prescient), Cleric (Ranged), Paladin (CHA-ladin), Shaman (Protector)
Races: - 

Combinations within the line would be the hybrids that really don't suffer much from MAD - they can have primary stats and riders just as easily as a single-classed version, especially when using a 16/16 array and the appropriate race.

These would be the "obvious" good hybrids, I should think, but not all of them are easy to come up with on the fly. Other combinations work because of synergy; these ones should manage OK just on the basis of having the right stats to work together.
The notorious tjhairball of legend and lore.