2/3/2010 StF: "The Look of an Awakening World"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Savor the Flavor, which goes live Wednesday on magicthegathering.com.

Should I be able to read this story? Im pretty sure it's not supposed to be up just yet, but it is....

Without giving anything away ( Foot in mouth ), I liked the article. Its pretty short, but has some nice larger art. And apparently he was grumpy when he wrote it?

EDIT: Awe, they fixed it now, I was gonna go back and quote something too....Now I have to wait a few hours
98% of people use statistics in their sigs, or have used them in the past. If you are one of the 2% that haven't or don't, place this into your signature. New Magic Forums, Im'a let you finish, but the old Magic Forums were one of the greatest boards of all time!
Was this a hint at Ajani #3 in Rise? Card game wise I hope not, but story wise, something goes wrong, Ajani shows up and eats it, is a pretty amusing trend.
Should I be able to read this story? Im pretty sure it's not supposed to be up just yet, but it is....

Without giving anything away (  ), I liked the article. Its pretty short, but has some nice larger art. And apparently he was grumpy when he wrote it?

EDIT: Awe, they fixed it now, I was gonna go back and quote something too....Now I have to wait a few hours



Yeah, I saw the article earlier today (on Tuesday). It was linked from the front page. I was wondering why we had 3 articles today, why Doug Beyer was a day early, why none of the images were showing, and why no one on the forums had commented about it.

Apparently, the article was not up long. I guess you and I got lucky.
I was hoping someone would misspell Persecutor as Prosecutor, then we could have an Abyssal Attorney that yells OBJECTION XD
Kudos!

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I saw the article early too, and didn't think anything of it, except that the images weren't part of it. So I thought it was an article for that day that just got posted wrongly and late - because the Worldwake Sortable Spoiler from the day before had been up before it, not that day's article.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

The land is awake everywhere



really? that's weird i hadn't noticed. i see a cycle of man land enchantments, but we had that in kamigawa. i don't remember the land being awake everywhere in kamigawa. oh and i see a colorless man land, but kamigawa had that extra genju too. and that guy who makes lands turn into elementals, but we had that in kamigawa and lorwyn (soilshaper and elvish branchbender). so based on the theory that your set's theme shouldn't be carried by your rares, worldwake is a failure. but at least the theme will be stronger in your rares, right? oh i see you have a cycle of rare man lands and that's it. and the avenger who makes plants for all your lands, i guess that sort of counts. of course, kamigawa had tomb of urami, too. and it had some cards that got better the more lands you had. like a fair number of them. so compared to zendikar block, kamigawa block is just as much about lands. hmm. don't remember kamigawa being "also the land block."

regarding the persecutor, i had no problem with his flavor. in my opinion, it fits the flavor of a demon even better than previous demons. it's cheaper (easier to go down the dark path) and the consequences don't come til later, which is perfect for the whole "i'm all powerful and i have everything i want UNTIL THE VERY END OF THE STORY WHERE MY LIFE IS DESTROYED!" plus the reversal of platinum angel is clever and cute. i think it's one of the best demons ever designed!
Regarding demons - creatures with huge drawbacks can be lots of fun, but sometimes the consequences are weird from a flavor point of view. Abyssal Persecutor knows that you're going to eventually kill him (or dump him off on someone else,) and yet there's nothing he can do about it. He lacks the instinct for self-preservation that characterizes black mana. There should be a demon with a mean drawback plus the ability "[CARDNAME] can't be sacrificed." I don't think that would cause too much trouble from a rules point of view.
Regarding demons - creatures with huge drawbacks can be lots of fun, but sometimes the consequences are weird from a flavor point of view. Abyssal Persecutor knows that you're going to eventually kill him (or dump him off on someone else,) and yet there's nothing he can do about it. He lacks the instinct for self-preservation that characterizes black mana. There should be a demon with a mean drawback plus the ability "[CARDNAME] can't be sacrificed." I don't think that would cause too much trouble from a rules point of view.



self preservation doesn't characterize black creatures the way you seem to think. an entire iconic race of black creatures (thrulls) exist soley to die. black creatures tend to have sacrifice abilities more than other colors. dying is just as black as living.

the way black philosophy works is, the powerful use the less powerful, and they use the less powerful than them, all the way down. as a planeswalker, you are potentially more powerful than any black creature. you summoned the demon, and yes you can kill him off and win, but it's not without risk. i guarantee that people have already lost the game to their own persecutor and will continue to do so in the future. a good player minimizes the risk, but the risk is still there. when you lose, and pay with your life for his power, the persecutor laughs and laughs.

one thing i think black shares with red is risk. black characters will put a lot on the line. the demon shows up, and he knows you might kill him, but maybe you won't be able to. it's worth it to you to risk it, just as it's worth it to him to risk it. he is big and black, so has protection from many spells that could potentially destroy him. so he's not showing up totally unprotected. plus, he knows you want to keep him around until the end, AND he knows your opponent will likely protect him. it's not as one sided against him as you suggest.
Regarding demons - creatures with huge drawbacks can be lots of fun, but sometimes the consequences are weird from a flavor point of view. Abyssal Persecutor knows that you're going to eventually kill him (or dump him off on someone else,) and yet there's nothing he can do about it. He lacks the instinct for self-preservation that characterizes black mana. There should be a demon with a mean drawback plus the ability "[CARDNAME] can't be sacrificed." I don't think that would cause too much trouble from a rules point of view.



self preservation doesn't characterize black creatures the way you seem to think. an entire iconic race of black creatures (thrulls) exist soley to die. black creatures tend to have sacrifice abilities more than other colors. dying is just as black as living.

the way black philosophy works is, the powerful use the less powerful, and they use the less powerful than them, all the way down. as a planeswalker, you are potentially more powerful than any black creature. you summoned the demon, and yes you can kill him off and win, but it's not without risk. i guarantee that people have already lost the game to their own persecutor and will continue to do so in the future. a good player minimizes the risk, but the risk is still there. when you lose, and pay with your life for his power, the persecutor laughs and laughs.



That's true - it's characteristic of black to create thrulls, and thrulls don't have much of a choice as to whether they get sacrificed, but thrulls aren't willing to die in the way that, say, goblins or soldiers are. Sometimes even they will gang up and kill your Endrek Sahr rather than take any more guff from him.
The land is awake everywhere



really? that's weird i hadn't noticed. i see a cycle of man land enchantments, but we had that in kamigawa. i don't remember the land being awake everywhere in kamigawa. oh and i see a colorless man land, but kamigawa had that extra genju too. and that guy who makes lands turn into elementals, but we had that in kamigawa and lorwyn (soilshaper and elvish branchbender). so based on the theory that your set's theme shouldn't be carried by your rares, worldwake is a failure. but at least the theme will be stronger in your rares, right? oh i see you have a cycle of rare man lands and that's it. and the avenger who makes plants for all your lands, i guess that sort of counts. of course, kamigawa had tomb of urami, too. and it had some cards that got better the more lands you had. like a fair number of them. so compared to zendikar block, kamigawa block is just as much about lands. hmm. don't remember kamigawa being "also the land block."




This makes me think you didn't go to a prerelase, becuase it shure feels like the lands are comming alive and beating you down.

First off you're compaing a set before size reduction, to one after the size reduction, so natually Betrayers has more room to play around with things like that whereas World Wake has fewer cards to get the point accross (which it does well).

Secondly the flavor of the Genju works fine it Kawi's Spirt drivern storyline. The Geju were some form of imortal nature spirit that kept comming back. Whereas the Zendikon is a bit of rogue magic bringing the land to life, once defeated the land is still standing whereas the Genju are willing to lose some spires or cedars to cary out its revenge. Bolth work.

Third, Zendikons are common, this counts for a lot. If you want to get the feel for how a set is suposto play, play it in Limited. Shure in the Worldwake heavy sealed its themes are a lot more apparent, but even in Zen-Zen-Wwk draft I was able to pull 4 Zendikons, trust me, the land beats.

Maybie you're one of the YMTCers who care more about how a set looks then it plays, and shure you can criticze its astectics until kingdom come, but if the game plays, with the theme they want it to play, then their goal was reached; in my oppoion the goal was reached with Worldwake, and it proved to be pretty much everything I was hopping Zendikar was going to be.
This makes me think you didn't go to a prerelase, becuase it shure feels like the lands are comming alive and beating you down.



i played at the prerelease. i did two sealed events. i have also gone through 4 packs of worldwake with pack wars.

First off you're compaing a set before size reduction, to one after the size reduction, so natually Betrayers has more room to play around with things like that whereas World Wake has fewer cards to get the point accross (which it does well).



set size isn't different enough to excuse a set that was supposed to have little to do with lands being noticeably similar to "the land set." i was exaggerating the comparison between the two blocks on purpose. yes, worldwake and zendikar have more land related mechanics than kamigawa block. but not that much more. and that's a problem. not only are they similar in quantity, but many of the same ideas are recycled. take a look at something like shadowmoor block: theme was hybrid. the set had more hybrid than had ever existed in the game. look at alara block: theme was multicolor and shards and those themes were explored in higher amounts than ever before (all multicolor set + more ally arc support than existed in the history of magic prior to the block being released). zendikar block simply doesn't do this for land based mechanics. a block where "land matters" should explore man lands and turning lands into creatures more than just recycling already existing ideas in single one-per-color cycles.

Secondly the flavor of the Genju works fine it Kawi's Spirt drivern storyline.



nowhere in my post did i suggest lands matter themes were inappropriate in kamigawa. that is not a point i was making. i am simply pointing out that kamigawa had nearly as much lands matter ideas and cards as zendikar block. which is obviously a problem as kamigawa wasn't considered a land block at all and zendikar block is supposed to be. and i'll take this time to add something i didn't add before: kamigawa had tons of legendary lands that were exciting and made lands matter on top of what i had already pointed out.

Third, Zendikons are common, this counts for a lot. If you want to get the feel for how a set is suposto play, play it in Limited. Shure in the Worldwake heavy sealed its themes are a lot more apparent, but even in Zen-Zen-Wwk draft I was able to pull 4 Zendikons, trust me, the land beats.



at my prerelease and in the pack wars i played, there was never more than one zendikon in play. none of them made much (or any) difference in the outcome of the games. i'm not saying i dislike the cards, or they're not powerful (the black one is particularly great) and i put any on color zendikons i pulled into my decks, but they are simply not a big enough presence in limited games to make me feel that lands are "coming alive." and in a previous article someone (tom lapille i think) actually stated that they deliberately avoided having too many lands become creatures on purpose. lands mostly stay in the back and tap for mana, just like in a non-lands-matter set.

Maybie you're one of the YMTCers who care more about how a set looks then it plays, and shure you can criticze its astectics until kingdom come, but if the game plays, with the theme they want it to play, then their goal was reached; in my oppoion the goal was reached with Worldwake, and it proved to be pretty much everything I was hopping Zendikar was going to be.



the sets are both fun in limited, color imbalance aside. i enjoyed my prerelease quite a bit, and pack wars with zendikar and worldwake have been as or more fun as other recent sets. but it's just a fact that they didn't break new ground with their theme as basically every previous modern set has. landfall is really cool, but generally makes landfall creatures matter more than lands. i pay less attention to the lands in play than i would have expected.