2/1/2010 MM: "Worldwake Me Up Before You Go-Go"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning (after the holiday break) on magicthegathering.com.

The first time I saw the new Jace, I also came to the conclusion that PW's were being evolved too quickly. I still think that's the case.

There have been so few PW's, that their (admittedly small) design space has hardly been mined at all. PW's have been around for three years, but there are still only a handful in existence.

Even the +1 / +1 loyalty on Elspeth is a significant evolution.

I don't disagree with this particular evolution. I just think it's premature.

I'd also like to see some structure to this evolution. The Elspeth +1 / +1 template could've been expanded out to all the PW's in the block, or Elspeth could've just had a black or red mirror. Will 4-ability Jace just be a random guy on his own?

Slow.... down.... the.... ev.... o.... lu... lu...

\:>
Urge to rant...decreasing?

By golly, mister, it looks like Magic is hiting its stride again.  Of course, this generally means the next block is likely to break the game in half, again, and the one after that is going to be Homelands-bad, again.
How do you not even mention Peel From Reality when talking about Aether Tradewinds?  May I suggest a less verbal diarrheaic description: "Tweaked Peel From Reality; more mana, hits permanents.

Eye of Ugin - what happened to "Lands should make mana"?
Eye of Ugin - what happened to "Lands should make mana"?

Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
I'm skeptical that Selective Memory would have been too good at 1U. Is it a Treasure Hunt Seismic Assault thing? Perhaps a Countryside Crusher thing?
I really favor the creation of simple cards like Æther Tradewinds. Props for the namer!Laughing

Yeah, what's with the Eye of Ugin card?


Plus ... Join the Ranks reminded me of Cenn's Enlistment.


Urge to rant...decreasing?

By golly, mister, it looks like Magic is hiting its stride again.  Of course, this generally means the next block is likely to break the game in half, again, and the one after that is going to be Homelands-bad, again.



For me, the power creep cycle has stopped being predictable unlike the last time. Alara feels like the power-level reset button, given how little play it saw while Lorwyn was still around. However, now that Zendikar appears to be even weaker and two consecutives steps down hadn't been made before, its pretty difficult if the next set is going to be more powerful or weaker than now (Mirrodin sequel bringing another Affinity would be quite ironic, and exactly what noone wants to see).
If Limited gets in the way of printing good Constructed cards... Screw limited
Alara feels like the power-level reset button, given how little play it saw while Lorwyn was still around. However, now that Zendikar appears to be even weaker and two consecutives steps down hadn't been made before...

The general "pattern", if we can call it that, is a Power-down block followed by experimentalism.  When the crazy experiments don't rip the game in half, R&D starts to get cocky.

"Okay, guys, let's dial it back a bit."
"Now that we're settled down, lets do some things that never would have been 'safe' before."
"Hmmm... this worked out surprisingly non-disastrous.  Let's maybe make a 'fixed' version of some 'broken' cards?  Another 'free' mechanic, perhaps?"
"Aw crap!  We have to ban nine cards in Standard again!

It's not really a truly clockwork "Broken->Crap->Weird->Broken" pattern, but it does seem to be a recurring theme.

How do you not even mention Peel From Reality when talking about Aether Tradewinds?  May I suggest a less verbal diarrheaic description: "Tweaked Peel From Reality; more mana, hits permanents.


This.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
Calcite Snapper has reminded me - I'm pretty shocked that the power/toughness switching rules weren't hit during the M10 rules cleanup.  It just makes no sense and is completely counterintuitive that switching power and toughness also switches the effect of any later p/t modifiers.  Back when MED2 drafts were running on MTGO, I had numerous opponents get confused by Phantasmal Fiend, and one who tried to argue pretty vigorously that the (correct) behavior was a bug.
Calcite Snapper has reminded me - I'm pretty shocked that the power/toughness switching rules weren't hit during the M10 rules cleanup.  It just makes no sense and is completely counterintuitive that switching power and toughness also switches the effect of any later p/t modifiers.


It makes more sense than switching the power and toughness of a 1/1 equipped with slagwurm armor and having it remain a 1/7.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
I'm glad that cards like Ruin Ghost and Join the Ranks were added in this set - with Landfall and Allies both being primarily sorcery-speed mechanics, limited was getting a little predictable.  In fact, I think a few more ways to put lands into play at instant speed would have been in order - eg could Explore have been printed as an instant?
It makes more sense than switching the power and toughness of a 1/1 equipped with slagwurm armor and having it remain a 1/7.

Right, but what ought to happen is that WotC should fix it so that it works the way everyone assumes it works prior to contact with the layer rules.

* I have a 1/1, I equip Slagwurm Armor, I switch its P/T - now it's a 7/1.
* I have a 1/1, I switch its P/T, I equip Slagwurm Armor - now it's a 1/7.

Anyone who knows the Comp Rules well will at this point start shaking their head and say "No, no, it can't work like that, because...". Never mind why it's tricky to sort out. It's an absolute requirement that if I switch the P/T of a creature which is currently an X/Y it becomes a Y/X. Anything else is a failure on the part of the rules.

And it used to work that way not so very long ago. I understand why the change was made, but just because it was rational that doesn't mean it's acceptable.

(I rant because I care. Like MaRo I love P/T switching...)

[Caustic Crawler] was handed over in the Zendikar design handoff. It was killed in Zendikar development for reasons other than a dislike for the card, so the Worldwake team put it back in.
What reasons?


And yes, I definitely spotted immediately that Comet Storm was TUNOWOTCCS (but one mana cheaper and an instant), as soon as I saw the card


The vein for planeswalker design is smaller than that for many other areas of the game
Not sure I see how this is the case. Planeswalkers give you a great opportunity to combine two or three simple spell-like effects that work well together.


On Join the Ranks, I'm very happy to see it, but I wish there had been a second Ally with flash. White is my favourite colour and clearly the best colour for Allies, but it'd be nice if Ally decks didn't have to go to white for Allies with natural flash. (Though the idea of a Vedalken Orrery or Teferi Allies deck is quite tempting.)


An interaction I hadn't foreseen until the prerelease: Ricochet Trap is utterly awesome on Zendikons


I utterly love Ruin Ghost, and am very shortly heading off to buy 4, along with 4 Quest for Renewal and 4 Amulet of Vigor, for a silly Johnny landflicker deck. I'm delighted you made it instaflicker rather than the more common return-at-EOT version, because instant-speed landfall is very useful.

Until then may you take the time to stop and smell the cards. (Kind of inky.)
Mmmm, that freshly-opened booster pack smell. Not inky, but like a smooth kind of cardboardy. Gotta love it.

In fact, I think a few more ways to put lands into play at instant speed would have been in order - eg could Explore have been printed as an instant?


Waking Atlas and Frontier Guide. Oh, and Explorer's Scope. And Harrow.

Even if Explore was an Instant, that wouldnt let you play a Land at any time you couldnt normally play one anyway (just like if you Cascade into it) - You still would only be able to play one in your own main phases while the stack is empty.

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
OK, the title's pretty weak.
The general "pattern", if we can call it that, is a Power-down block followed by experimentalism.  When the crazy experiments don't rip the game in half, R&D starts to get cocky.

"Okay, guys, let's dial it back a bit."
"Now that we're settled down, lets do some things that never would have been 'safe' before."
"Hmmm... this worked out surprisingly non-disastrous.  Let's maybe make a 'fixed' version of some 'broken' cards?  Another 'free' mechanic, perhaps?"
"Aw crap!  We have to ban nine cards in Standard again!

It's not really a truly clockwork "Broken->Crap->Weird->Broken" pattern, but it does seem to be a recurring theme.



The general "pattern", if we can call it that, is you don't know what the heck you're talking about.

What was Tempest powered down from?  Certainly not Mirage or Ice Age.
Are you trying to imply that Onslaught was a power-down block? Compared to what?  Odyssey? Invasion? Masques?  Each block was more powerful than the last  (which was made very apparent, as the super-linear themes meant that once a block became more powerful than another, the older block stopped appearing as much)

Apparently it's not cockiness we need to worry about, but laziness in allowing design to try to top itself. 
Aether Tradewinds: New design space? Hardly!! Do you remember Peel from Reality?
What was Tempest powered down from?  Certainly not Mirage or Ice Age.

Unlimited Edition.  Yes, all the way back to 2E.
Great article. Although now i am going to have that stupid 80's song stuck in my head. Thanks Rosewater!



I am Blue/White
I am Blue/White
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical.
Calcite Snapper has reminded me - I'm pretty shocked that the power/toughness switching rules weren't hit during the M10 rules cleanup.  It just makes no sense and is completely counterintuitive that switching power and toughness also switches the effect of any later p/t modifiers. 


Right, but what ought to happen is that WotC should fix it so that it works the way everyone assumes it works prior to contact with the layer rules.


That is the way p/t switching effects have worked since the beginning. The only difference is that, before Ravnica (?) brought us the layer system in its current glory (obviously there have been detail changes since then, but that's when the fundamental overhaul came), those effects used to explicitly spell out that later power adjustments would instead affect toughness, and vice versa.

Could this little fact be communicated better? Probably. Maybe by putting reminder text on those cards.

But leave the fact alone.

Anyone who knows the Comp Rules well will at this point start shaking their head and say "No, no, it can't work like that, because...". Never mind why it's tricky to sort out.


Yes, that would probably make a mess of a simple and elegant chunk of important rules and create a lot of headaches for players and judges alike.
Not to mention the fact that it would change how p/t switching has always worked.

It's an absolute requirement that if I switch the P/T of a creature which is currently an X/Y it becomes a Y/X. Anything else is a failure on the part of the rules.

And it used to work that way not so very long ago. I understand why the change was made, but just because it was rational that doesn't mean it's acceptable.


I'm not sure what you're complaining about here. If you take a creature that's currently X/Y and switch its p/t, it'll be a Y/X. This is as true today as it was when the first p/t switch was printed.

DCI Lvl 2 Judge

Right, but what ought to happen is that WotC should fix it so that it works the way everyone assumes it works prior to contact with the layer rules.

* I have a 1/1, I equip Slagwurm Armor, I switch its P/T - now it's a 7/1.
* I have a 1/1, I switch its P/T, I equip Slagwurm Armor - now it's a 1/7.

Anyone who knows the Comp Rules well will at this point start shaking their head and say "No, no, it can't work like that, because...". Never mind why it's tricky to sort out. It's an absolute requirement that if I switch the P/T of a creature which is currently an X/Y it becomes a Y/X. Anything else is a failure on the part of the rules.

And it used to work that way not so very long ago. I understand why the change was made, but just because it was rational that doesn't mean it's acceptable.


Bull.  Power/toughness switching never worked the way you describe.

Here's the original printed text of Transmutation from Legends:

Until end of turn, target creature's power and toughness are switched. Effects that alter power alter toughness instead, and vice versa.

At some point, Wizards decided to drop that second sentence, deeming it redundant.  The way the effect worked, however, never changed.  Once you switch the power and toughness of a creature, you're switching them for all effects that modify power and toughness as well.
The way the effect worked, however, never changed.  Once you switch the power and toughness of a creature, you're switching them for all effects that modify power and toughness as well.

Actually, sometime between 4E and 6E, the rules was changed to swap only the actual printed numbers in the lower right corner.  There was a similar change at the time for P/T setting (such as Sorceress Queen) effects.

Wow, Ruin Ghost would have been a terrible rare.  I like it a lot at uncommon though (for Limited).

I also like the current P/T switching rules -- they're pretty easy to apply in practice.

I like Join the Ranks a lot two.  Actually, I think another one or two card slots could have been devoted to instant speed allies (perhaps a blue and a green one with flash).  The possibility of instant speed allies makes for great bluffing in Limited.  It's nice to have a few combat tricks that vary greatly depending on the current state of the board.
The biggest challenge actually wasn't doing it, but not doing it. Here's the design issue. We like planeswalkers. You all like planeswalkers.


I hate Planeswalker cards. I never use them and I hate them with everything that I've got. But I think I'm the exception...

And i agree that Ruin Ghost would have been a terrible rare. But it's one of my favorite uncommons from the set (I too love flickering).

Edit: And why is Stone Idol Trap red? I still don't understand it...
OMG click HERE! OMG! How to autocard and use decklist format
--->
For autocarding, write [c][/c] with the name of the card inside it. [c]Island[/c] = Island For linking a card to Gatherer without writting the name of said card for readers, use the autocard brackets together with and equal sign and right the name of the real card. Then put the message you want inside the tags, like you would do with autocarding. Like this: [c=Curse of the Cabal]Captain Never-resolves[/c] = Captain Never-resolves For using the decklist format, follow this: [deck] 4* Terramorphic Expanse 4* Evolving Wilds ... [/deck] It equals:
Real signature, Sblocked for space:
57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!


Edit: And why is Stone Idol Trap red? I still don't understand it...


Because you get a temporary creature. Plus rares are allowed to be a little off-color

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
As a purely limited player, the design of this entire block disgusts me, and Worldwake is just another slice from the same fabric as Zendikar.  It's so purely aggressive that it makes actual interaction during games rare.  The sheer lack of blocking that tends to occur, given that creatures are often better on their controllers' turns (in what other format would Kraken Hatchling been playable...), makes this block a failure in limited design.

The fact that a card like Eye of Ugin exists in Worldwake might keep Rosewater sleeping soundly, but it ticks me off to no end.  It has absolutely zero application in ANY format right now, and even though it's a mythic rare, the fact that any drafter or sealed player could open this up and basically have to take a de facto mulligan on the pack is insane.  Sure, there are always crap rares for limited (here's looking at you, Selective Memory), but they're usually at least something someone will try in some way.  Eye of Ugin is absolutely and unequivocally useless.  The future application is cute.  It's not practical, and it borders on insulting to people who want to play with the cards they open.
On the Eye of Ugin issue I wholeheartedly disagree with you Semantics !
You are welcome to your opinion though, and it would probably be a fruitless discussion, but I want to be a voice for those that find Eye of Ugin exciting
I'd also be happy if it becomes playable or even good once we get some Eldrazi
Although obviously, it is not for limited at the moment. But some cards in Zendikar got better with the release of WWK, and maybe Eye of Ugin will become playable in limited come Rise of the Eldrazi

Okay, I disagree on the limited factor as well. Now I only Judged a Prerelease so I don't know if you have seen a lot more limited play with WWK than I have, but from what I saw of the draft and the Sealed, the limited format has slown down considerably (like WotC said it would, thanks )!
The winner of our prerelease top 8 draft played a W/U control deck.
Now of course this doesn't mean it is representative, but I don't believe you have enough information to judge this new limited format, am I right?

Personally, I think it seems like control strategies might well be viable in this new limited format, and I don't think I'm alone!


Edit: And why is Stone Idol Trap red? I still don't understand it...



Keep in mind that it sticks around through your next turn, so it is as much an offensive weapon as it is a defensive one. 

Mainly, I think that it is part of the push by Wizards to focus on flavorful cards that do what you'd expect, rather than focusing on mechanical minutea.  Dropping a big rock on a trespasser's head and gleefully watching it roll off to wreck more havoc as it goes is exactly the sort of thing a red mage would do, right? 

- Patch

As a purely limited player, the design of this entire block disgusts me, and Worldwake is just another slice from the same fabric as Zendikar.  It's so purely aggressive that it makes actual interaction during games rare.  The sheer lack of blocking that tends to occur, given that creatures are often better on their controllers' turns (in what other format would Kraken Hatchling been playable...), makes this block a failure in limited design.



So, because it's not tailored to your personal playstyle taste, it's a failure in Limited design?  And that's to say nothing of whether or not your perception is even accurate in the first place...
So, because it's not tailored to your personal playstyle taste, it's a failure in Limited design?  And that's to say nothing of whether or not your perception is even accurate in the first place...

Wait...

"I hate it, therefore it sucks!" isn't a valid argument?

Of course, this generally means the next block is likely to break the game in half, again, and the one after that is going to be Homelands-bad, again.



I'm not sure what you mean by "break the game in half", but for the one after that being at least Kamigawa-bad, that is, unpopular because of not being strong enough to rotate Standard (despite perhaps being well-designed in other areas) I agree, for reasons... not to be discussed outside Future Set Speculation.

I have to think, though, that Amulet of Vigor is broken. Not Power Nine broken, but Lion's Eye Diamond broken. So we hardly have to wait for the next block to see cards that stretch the game a bit... hopefully not too far out of shape.

It's so purely aggressive that it makes actual interaction during games rare.



I don't think you have to be a Limited player to dislike that. I'm not inclined towards Limited myself, as I want to play more than once with the cards I buy. I will admit that not having any colorless Eldrazi spells in Zendikar and Worldwake - if that is the case - is a Steamflogger Boss kind of thing to do (and that was a rare in Future Sight), but that just means the first player with that pack ends up taking the best uncommon in it instead; Booster Draft is a format in which chance plays a big role.

Presumably, though, players who get Eye of Ugin should hold on to it, because it will be worth something when the next set comes out. (A pity Magic cards aren't liquid enough to be really good investments...)

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

So, because it's not tailored to your personal playstyle taste, it's a failure in Limited design?  And that's to say nothing of whether or not your perception is even accurate in the first place...

Wait...

"I hate it, therefore it sucks!" isn't a valid argument?




Are you illiterate?  The argument is that they have created a format that drastically reduces meaningful player interaction.  That is the heart of any Magic format, especially limited.  A healthy limited format is one that allows for multiple draft avenues in some level of equity.  Not only is there color imbalance in Zendikar and Worldwake, but there is also a serious lack of feasibility of pure control strategies or really a whole lot in between.

That, to me, IS a failure in design.  That doesn't mean that it doesn't satisfy people, but making casual players happy and allowing for a healthy limited format are not mutually exclusive ideas.
Could the Eldrazi cards have "'x' is colorless" rules text on them like Ghostfire?
So, because it's not tailored to your personal playstyle taste, it's a failure in Limited design?  And that's to say nothing of whether or not your perception is even accurate in the first place...

Wait...

"I hate it, therefore it sucks!" isn't a valid argument?




Are you illiterate?  The argument is that they have created a format that drastically reduces meaningful player interaction.  That is the heart of any Magic format, especially limited.  A healthy limited format is one that allows for multiple draft avenues in some level of equity.  Not only is there color imbalance in Zendikar and Worldwake, but there is also a serious lack of feasibility of pure control strategies or really a whole lot in between.

That, to me, IS a failure in design.  That doesn't mean that it doesn't satisfy people, but making casual players happy and allowing for a healthy limited format are not mutually exclusive ideas.




Seems like you are kinda jumpin the gun on that one, three days is a pretty short amount of time to make a conclusion on wether the format is healthy or not.  As for the aggressiveness of the format, there are plenty of new tricks added in to make blocking viable.  They also weakened the army of 2/1s through things like caustic crawler, the new vulshok sorcerer, and halimar excavator.  Blue was also strengthened (quite a bit) through the additions of things like calcite snapper and the new mind control which in many situations has a boon rather than a drawback.

Sure there is still some color imbalance still, but that doesn't make drafting bad either.  Green might be weak, but that just means less people draft it and you have a high chance of getting 5th pick terra stompers or seeing a harrow table.  Blue currently has one of the strongest suit of flyers I have ever seen, and white continues to have a large amount of both combat tricks and strong removal cards.

The one worldwake draft I had the chance to do at my prerelease was very eye opening, as were the sealed rounds before it.  I don't think they made black/red weaker, but they gave other colors a lot of answers to deal with the aggressive format.

As for drafting straight control, sure it's hard but that's more a symptom of wizards trying to keep the power level in constructed down I think.  However I don't think it is at all impossible.  I have managed to win drafts with nothing but late game flyers by using a variety of early game cancels and spreading seas to keep the board clean and their mana locked out of one color.  I will admit to it being a pretty bad deck by todays current limited standards, but it still could win and managed to do so multiple times.  So far you are the first person I have heard that is actually unhappy with the addition of worldwake to the format.

Good article!!!


But the point is: wwk is one of the worst expansion...
What was Tempest powered down from?  Certainly not Mirage or Ice Age.

Unlimited Edition.  Yes, all the way back to 2E.


Are you claiming that Tempest was a powered-down block by comparing it to a set with the P9 that had been completely out of print for about 3 years before it was released?
Are you claiming that Tempest was a powered-down block by comparing it to a set with the P9 that had been completely out of print for about 3 years before it was released?

Tempest was the end of the long climb out of The Dark implosion.  Then all hell broke loose.

Another love of mine is flickering



great! i love flickering! especially the kind that doesn't wait until the end of my turn to finish!

why would you bring up stone idol trap without addressing it's bizarro color pie issues? a red card whose cost is reduced by attackers? a defensive card? a 6/12? this all seems rather white/green. and yes, i understand the ball lightning concept: this is ball lightning that blocks and has 11 more toughness. sorry. not mono red.

but if red is being shifted a bit (given more depth) that's fine. i would just have liked to hear about it.

i should also admit now that i hated this card violently until playing it at the prerelease. fun. now i'm just mildly irritated about its pie antics.



Edit: And why is Stone Idol Trap red? I still don't understand it...


Because you get a temporary creature.



that's white, too. and white tends to emphasize the defensive applications. stone idol trap is a red/white gold card in a block stressing monocolor. as a red/white card it would have made perfect sense and been a really clever example of cross-color synergy. instead of being kind of confusing.

Plus rares are allowed to be a little off-color



no, rares shouldn't be off color. they should be very, very on color. ball lightning is on color, this isn't. this is ball lightning with a very white defensive mode attached to the front of it. bolas was irritating to me but at least has multiple excuses (ITZ TEH BOLAS, recoil can destroy an artifact, etc) and was addressed by numerous writers on this site. they made an exception for one of the most major characters in magic, but that doesn't mean they should make exceptions for a giant stone head or whatever else they want to make exceptions for. that said, i do understand the flavor of the stone head thing, and it's cool, but i wish it would be addressed, because i'm interested.

Not only is there color imbalance in Zendikar and Worldwake, but there is also a serious lack of feasibility of pure control strategies or really a whole lot in between.



i'm not quite as angry about it as you are, but i can attest to the fact that the prerelease i went to was pretty unbalanced. everyone played black, and almost no one played blue. white, green and red were secondary colors. limited is always pretty creature heavy, though, so i didn't find the lack of control surprising. i did see one mill deck (i don't know how well it did, though). in general, though, it was aggro/midrange with black all the way. i don't know similar my experience is to the average.



Edit: And why is Stone Idol Trap red? I still don't understand it...


Because you get a temporary creature. Plus rares are allowed to be a little off-color



It's a temporary creature, yes, but it's a temporary creature that comes into play easilly the more people are attacking you. It's a temporary creature that has twice as much toughness than power. It's a temporary creature that punishes your opponent for attacking you (since it will attack back). All this sounds very white for me. As qq said, it would be a wonderfull card, but not mono. If it were better for each creature you controlled that was attacking (in some sort of way) it would be trully . The fact that it can attack is , ok, but the fact that it comes as a surprise blocker is totally .

Keep in mind that it sticks around through your next turn, so it is as much an offensive weapon as it is a defensive one. 

Mainly, I think that it is part of the push by Wizards to focus on flavorful cards that do what you'd expect, rather than focusing on mechanical minutea.  Dropping a big rock on a trespasser's head and gleefully watching it roll off to wreck more havoc as it goes is exactly the sort of thing a red mage would do, right? 

- Patch




Yes, it is. That's why it should be instead of mono! If it is as much a defensive weapon as it is an offensive one, why is it mono? White and Red are both good in the combat step. White likes defense and red likes attack. So since this card does both things (and is played easier if you are being attacked, what screams "defense" for me) it shouldn't be monocolored.
OMG click HERE! OMG! How to autocard and use decklist format
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Real signature, Sblocked for space:
57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!