Which race is the most "hi tech"?

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Which race is considered the most inventive? I need the most mechanical/engineer-ish type race.
Gnomes, with dwarfs proably as a second.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Add humans to that list!

Might just be my bias as a *human* mechanical engineer, but they're supposed to be good at everything and highly persistant.

With a little flavor, almost any race can be a tinkerer, but some fit better than others.  A tiefling tries to rebuild glories past from Baal Turath, a Deva gets sudden inspiration from inventions in past lives, a Warforged struggles to understand his composition.

Probably not Half-Orcs though.  Stupid green-skins.
Gnomes kind of got the psudo-eladrin treatment, which I personally prefer, but it wouldn't be hard to make him the mad-scientist-esque character from previous editions.

Dwarves kind of seem to me more structural engineering-ish to me, more about architecture rather than anything, but its not a stretch to imagine one who enjoys constructing complicated mechanical traps, or clockwork guardians, ect.

Humans are pretty much a given, as well as the psuedo-humans, Half-Elves, Tieflings, Shadar'kai, Half-Orcs, ect.

I think its more about a characters background than the race per se, since a technilogically savvy character more than likely had training somewhere along the line, or at least grew up around it somehow.

Edit: Blahhhh! I can't type......or it was a freudian slip. >_>
The Artificer text in Eberron references humans, then gnomes, then dwarves.
Githyanki
I would say it depends on the setting.

In the default setting, Githyanki have some hi-tech stuff and so do Dwarves and Humans

Kobolds are not hi-tech by any means but they are kinda techy with all their traps and stuff.

And in the default setting Gnomes are by no means a techie race, it even says so in their fluff "they have little interest or aptitude for the kind of technology found in human cities"

Dwarves kind of seem to me more structural engineering-ish to me, more about architecture rather than anything, but its not a stretch to imagine one who enjoys constructing complicated mechanical traps, or cockwork guardians, ect.



Where can I get a cockwork guardian?  My girlfriend would love one of those!

Depending on the setting Warforged could be very knowledgeable about mechanics. Perhaps they have lost technological secrets from when they were created.
Dwarves.  Pull lever, flood world with lava.
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Dwarves kind of seem to me more structural engineering-ish to me, more about architecture rather than anything, but its not a stretch to imagine one who enjoys constructing complicated mechanical traps, or cockwork guardians, ect.



Where can I get a cockwork guardian?  My girlfriend would love one of those!




I'm both intrigued and terrified to ask.
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Where can I get a cockwork guardian?  My girlfriend would love one of those!

You can always reflavor things.  A warforged beastmaster with a cLockwork guardian would be pretty cool.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Where can I get a cockwork guardian?  My girlfriend would love one of those!



The Clockwork Engineer PP has one, it's really good.
Depending on the setting Warforged could be very knowledgeable about mechanics. Perhaps they have lost technological secrets from when they were created.



Warforged are created magically, not technologically.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.

Yes but magical gear works in their bodies could inspire warforged to study natural machines


 

The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.

Yes but magical gear works in their bodies could inspire warforged to study natural machines


 




Warforged don't have gears, they have wood fibers and tubes.

Warforged are created magically, not technologically.



Now hold on one second, someone has been watching way to much Flight of Dragons, who says a statue of stone, metal and wood animated by complex magic is not technology?

Technology is just a fancy word for "tools", just because a tool is magical does not by any means make it less technological

Magical engineering is no different from Bioengineering or robotic engineering, it's just another medium to work with.
Dwarves.  Pull lever, flood world with lava.

 <3 <3 <3

Technology is just a fancy word for "tools", just because a tool is magical does not by any means make it less technological

It should be clear from the context of the original question and the responses in this thread that people are using "technology" in this case to descibe mechanical engineering. That should be an acceptable use the the word. Magical engineering may be no different from Bioengineering or robotic engineering but that doesn't advance the conversation. It makes the conversation more difficult.

Which race is considered the most inventive? I need the most mechanical/engineer-ish type race.


Dwarves do amazing things with stone that most races couldn't do.  They're also masters of the forge.

If you believe the dwarf fortress explanation, they live in holes in the ground and are the best darn engineers and mechanics this side of existance.

Gnomes are just potion brewing illusionist wannabes.
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I guess I could have gave a little more detail. I was wanting to have my character have made his armor with all sorts of inventive abilities to mimic an Iron Man type suit. It doesn't fire missles, it fires magic missles...it doesn't have a shoulder cannon, it has a force orb....it doesn't have an onboard computer, well ok I'm going to use my skill checks to be the armor "magically" telling me stuff...sue me lol.

But, I'm thinking at the time he wanders off to construct his suit, the dwarves will make a fine choice for co-creation. Thank you all.
Well you seem to have Wizard in mind for the class right?

But the Self Forged PP is perfect for what you're talking about, I would check that out.
You probably want artificer as your class.  It's the class of magic engineers.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I don't know, Artificer is focused on helping allies and it sound to me like he wants to focus more on blasting enemies

Modrons anyone?

Which race is considered the most inventive? I need the most mechanical/engineer-ish type race.



Just to clarify, Dwarves aren't the most mechanical engineerish type race. They are great CIVIL engineers (civil engineers design and build buildings and bridges and stuff like that). True, they can create great works of armour and weapons but technically that isn't mechanical engineering. As a mechanical engineering student, I just couldn't resist pointing this out.

Mechanical Engineering is more like cars, trains, pumps, bicycles, etc, etc (computers and dvd players is partly mechanical engeneering too, but just the physical things. The electronics and the softwere is electrical engineering).

A human, or Warforged is decent at this (especially since you mention Iron-Man in your later post).
Kamikazegerbil wrote: Coke Spill Level 1 Encounter Attack Power Trigger: You must be pouring yourself a drink Range: Close Blast 1D10 from Player Target: All creatures and objects within blast Attack: Any vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 Fizzy damage and target is wet (save ends) Aftereffect: Target is sticky (save ends)
Just to clarify, Dwarves aren't the most mechanical engineerish type race. They are great CIVIL engineers (civil engineers design and build buildings and bridges and stuff like that). True, they can create great works of armour and weapons but technically that isn't mechanical engineering. As a mechanical engineering student, I just couldn't resist pointing this out.

Mechanical Engineering is more like cars, trains, pumps, bicycles, etc, etc (computers and dvd players is partly mechanical engeneering too, but just the physical things. The electronics and the softwere is electrical engineering).



True, but nothing says that mechanical engineering is not something they're good at. Civil Engineering and Mechanical Engineers although very different in a engineering sense, are very similar in a cultural sense. They both require the same type of mentality.

There are no cars, trains, pumps, bicycles, computers or dvd players in D&D, but if there was, a industrious and orderly culture like that of Dwarves would be on top of it. Keep in mind Dwarven culture is based on northern European cultures, and northern Europe is known for industry.
There are no cars, trains, pumps, bicycles, computers or dvd players in D&D, but if there was, a industrious and orderly culture like that of Dwarves would be on top of it.

Wow. I'd hope you has some pumps or at least a couple of Archimedes' screws in use at a bare minimum. I'm pretty sure I saw tracks for mining cars in the Ecology of the Rust Monster article I was reading and that trap at the start of chapter 5 in the PHB looks pretty mechanically complex.

And then there's Eberron, complete with airships, elemental galleons and land carts, the lightning rail, and more. In a world with clockwork engineers, it's hard to tell just how much is mechanical engineering and how much is magic.
There are no cars, trains, pumps, bicycles, computers or dvd players in D&D, but if there was, a industrious and orderly culture like that of Dwarves would be on top of it.

Wow. I'd hope you has some pumps or at least a couple of Archimedes' screws in use at a bare minimum. I'm pretty sure I saw tracks for mining cars in the Ecology of the Rust Monster article I was reading and that trap at the start of chapter 5 in the PHB looks pretty mechanically complex.

And then there's Eberron, complete with airships, elemental galleons and land carts, the lightning rail, and more. In a world with clockwork engineers, it's hard to tell just how much is mechanical engineering and how much is magic.



In that case I think a warforged artificer/wizard would fit that kind of engineer to the letter.

But i think the silliest of devices are created by gnomes or chaos technitions but that 3.0 heresy.

For biotech it may be illithids possibly, they were rediculiously smart and bizzaire.

And then space tech would have to go to either human or warforged engineers in eberron or githyanki in regular 4.0, mainly because they invented planar skiffs.
Perhaps the solution that would fit my theme would be to have studied with several "masters". What I can't bring myself to explain as "mechanical", I'll use good old magic to explain lol.

Could have a character whose little pet peeve is how people keep thinking his suit is magical when it's just technological.

'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.' -Arthur C. Clarke

Flying is not inherently dangerous, crashing is.

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Could have a character whose little pet peeve is how peole keep thinking his suit is magical when it's just technological.

'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.' -Arthur C. Clarke




Awesome idea! And I think you just gave my character his quote. Thank you!
One thing about technology in a high-magic world is that -- this is just my opinion, of course -- that quote kind of gets reversed. Any appropriately applied magic is indistinguishable from technology.

Since magic works, and works quite well in the D&D setting, I'm not sure why anyone would even attempt to make anything nonmagically technologically more complex than, say, a crossbow. (In previous editions, you might want stuff like that to have as a backup in antimagic areas, but the 4th ed setting doesn't even have antimagic.)

Any development of technology would almost certainly incorporate large amounts of magic into its constructions. See: Eberron. If a D&D world were ever occasioned to have real technological progress, its cars wouldn't be mundane combustion engines, they'd be powered by the same force that enables telekinesis (or maybe magical combustion engines that ignite bat guano into super-contained supercharged fireballs instead of actual gasoline, etc.) If you go into space you don't need an airtight spacesuit filled with oxygen, you just need a ritual or other item that obviates the need for breathing, and maybe a little resistance to cold, force (vacuum), and radiant (radiation?) damage.

Magic means something fundamentally different in fantasy settings than it does in the real world. Reality, it is more or less "something that cannot be done by natural means." In D&D, magic is natural, and is simply another type of force available to people to use. I personally like to use 'magic' in a somewhat sarcastic sense almost, sometimes; "oh, so that stapler just magically dissappeared, i suppose?" In a D&D world this sarcasm would make no sense at all because, well, yes, that's entirely possible.

I think the question of 'who is the best mechanical engineer' and 'who is the best magical engineer' are virtually the same question in the D&D world--unless there's some culture out there somewhere that has absolutely no magical aptitude, or something.


The world is a mess, I just need to... rule it.
The fusion of magic with technology makes the idea of eladrin as a high-tech race sensible.  In the campaign I am playing, my eladrin comes from a culture that is slightly more advanced than the local human culture -- and in addition they were the makers of the few warforged in that setting, using technology now lost even to them.  Nobody ever bothered to specify how much of this was due to magic and how much was due to technology -- the eladrin would freely make use of both at once.