Death of a SAGA...

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For those who are interested:

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Oh ****

Star Wars? Gone?

Crap. 
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Time for the Trek! 

In all seriousness, this sucks for fans of the game.  Hang in there.  You've still got D&D! ;)
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

Well, the worst part {for me}, is that I still don't have all the books yet. By the time I do have the cash flow to afford the rest, I bet the prices will be much higher, and many of the SAGA books go out of print fast, which makes the price even higher still. All in all, I best rob a national bank quickly if I want the SAGA Collection cheap.

Can't say I'm horribly surprised, to be honest. It's a sad day for SW fans.

That said, I can see a silver lining in that little black raincloud. As was pointed out in that thread, there's a possibility that a new SWRPG will have new mechanics and fresh ideas, if whomever can work out the financials with King George. The firsat and only time anything Star Wars was done cheaply. Even the updates for the Special Edition were hideously more expensive than the original film.

That also means the possibility of a new sci-fi system for WotC, something that won't cost them a few million in licensing alone, and a new design team with a shot at making the Big Time, rather than toiling away for small print runs, local-only exposure, and no chance against the might of Dungeons and Dragons. Who knows, someone in these very Forums could have a really killer idea they can address to the 4e system, and everybody can make a killing.
A loss, yes, but not a completer one. With the downturn, WotC isn't making the money on that line, so they're not renewing for millions in cash and etc. Not hard to do the maths on that one.

I'd rather have WotC stay afloat without SW than keep a property on hand they can't afford to maintain. More room for other designers thataway

-Sarena

Players don't get to ad-lib t3h r00lz, and demand the DM stick to RAW. RAW says it's the other way around.

Artificer.jpg
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

ZB: sucks doesn't quite begin to describe it for me really. Devastating would be more appropriate.

as far as Trek goes, there were some attempts at pen and papers in the past but they were not done by wotc.
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Time for the Trek! 

In all seriousness, this sucks for fans of the game.  Hang in there.  You've still got D&D! ;)



I think the Star Trek rights are currently taken, but don't quote me on that. I'll do some digging and get back to you.

Micha: There have been two that I can place off the top of my head, the first by mostly-defunct FASA, which was most excellent, and the other I want to say was by Unicorn Games. Trek is probably not quite as spendy as Star Wars, otoh, should it be currently available.

-Sarena

Players don't get to ad-lib t3h r00lz, and demand the DM stick to RAW. RAW says it's the other way around.

Artificer.jpg
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium

ZB: sucks doesn't quite begin to describe it for me really. Devastating would be more appropriate.

as far as Trek goes, there were some attempts at pen and papers in the past but they were not done by wotc.



I feel ya.  But it's like anything else.  You've got the stuff to keep goin' (I hope), so it ain't dead to you.  There's also a chance they may revisit it if the stars align properly down the road sometime.  A new SW movie or cartoon series at the right time may be all it takes to work on that license again. 
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

True. We'll be playing as long as the books hold together and the pages are still legible.

Wizards has really given me two great things in my life. D&D and Saga. heh. Whatever their next project may be, I will give it a shot too.

New movie to reinvigorate it would be nice. There's the KOTOR MMORPG coming out soon. I wonder if they ever considered it while making the decision to not renew the license.
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... Huh... I wonder if Bioware has their eyes on the rights?  I mean, they're already toeing into pen & paper RPGs with publishing a Dragon Age RPG with Green Ronin, and KotOR really rocked everyone's socks, so I could see it happening...

Not gonna put money on it, but I wouldn't be surprised if, after the next star wars game from Bioware (whenever that is) we also see a Star Wars RPG from Green Ronin...
Resident Over-Educated Ivory-Tower Elitist [You don't have the Need-to-Know for that, citizen]
What WotC should do:
Take the core SAGA system, strip out all the Star Wars IP material and release it as their own SF system early next year with heavy support (miniatures, modules, setting, etc.) and which would be backwards-compatible with existing SAGA material.

What WotC will do:
Wait way too long before creating a brand-new half-assed SF system from the ground up, release it at the exactly wrong time and completely fail to support it before letting it die a slow and painful death from neglect.

Oh well.
Advice for DMs: When you are ad lib or improve DMing don't self-edit yourself. Some of the most fun you'll ever have is by just going with whatever crazy thing crosses your mind based on what your players are doing. Advice for Players: When your DM is ad libbing there are bound to be plot holes and inconsistencies that crop up. You'll all have a lot more fun if you just roll with it instead of nitpicking the details.
Previous Advice
Advice for DMs: Always dangle a lot of plot hooks in front of you players. Anything they do not bite you can bring back and bite them later. When considering a new house rule ask yourself the question "Will this make the game more fun?" Unless the answer is a resounding yes don't do it. Advice for Players: Always tell the DM not just what you want to do but also what you are hoping to accomplish. No matter how logical the result is it will never happen if it simply never occurred to the DM. "That's what my character would do" is not a valid excuse for being a disruptive ass at the table. Your right to have fun only extends to the point where it impedes the ability of others to do likewise.
I think Boraxe nailed it on the end, blaugh. Still, I'm happy to be running my KotOR campaign at the moment, though I really hoped to at least get a hold of the Jedi Training Manual before prices get too high. I stopped being able to afford new books somewhere just before the release of the Rebellion Era Campaign Guide, so I'm really far behind in my collection. {tear}
Sadness.
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne! Resident Invisible Man Lurker in the House of Trolls A Testament to My Glory
... Huh... I wonder if Bioware has their eyes on the rights?  I mean, they're already toeing into pen & paper RPGs with publishing a Dragon Age RPG with Green Ronin, and KotOR really rocked everyone's socks, so I could see it happening...

Not gonna put money on it, but I wouldn't be surprised if, after the next star wars game from Bioware (whenever that is) we also see a Star Wars RPG from Green Ronin...



God I hope not. That pen and paper is a piece of crap which insults the franchise it was supposedly inspired by.
http://guild.medialoungeca.com/index.php?action=forum The Guild I'm apart of. We're in WOW, STO, Rift and soon Star Wars feel free to register and hang out. http://sparkster11.deviantart.com/ my deviantart Wheelman of the House of Trolls, "I love it when you watch" Carrier of Section 2, 3 and 6 cargo. Resident Driver Stud God of Transportation and Lust.
God I hope not. That pen and paper is a piece of crap which insults the franchise it was supposedly inspired by.


Does it?  That's sad.  I was kinda curious as I really enjoyed the game.

Resident Over-Educated Ivory-Tower Elitist [You don't have the Need-to-Know for that, citizen]
Yeah, from what I saw at the time, Warriors were basically BAB bots, and rogues had to do a special die roll just to get to -attempt- backstab. I didn't bother looking into it much after that.
http://guild.medialoungeca.com/index.php?action=forum The Guild I'm apart of. We're in WOW, STO, Rift and soon Star Wars feel free to register and hang out. http://sparkster11.deviantart.com/ my deviantart Wheelman of the House of Trolls, "I love it when you watch" Carrier of Section 2, 3 and 6 cargo. Resident Driver Stud God of Transportation and Lust.
What WotC should do:
Take the core SAGA system, strip out all the Star Wars IP material and release it as their own SF system early next year with heavy support (miniatures, modules, setting, etc.) and which would be backwards-compatible with existing SAGA material.

What WotC will do:
Wait way too long before creating a brand-new half-assed SF system from the ground up, release it at the exactly wrong time and completely fail to support it before letting it die a slow and painful death from neglect.

Oh well.



Actually, I saw somewhere that WotC is putting out a 4e-based sci-fi setting.  Gamma World, using 4e rules, is set to relase October 2010 according a WotC twitter.  There is an entire thread about it on the D20 Modern board.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...-

Granted, it's not the SWSE system, but it might be close enough for government work.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

I will look into the setting at the very least. The idea appeals to me.
http://guild.medialoungeca.com/index.php?action=forum The Guild I'm apart of. We're in WOW, STO, Rift and soon Star Wars feel free to register and hang out. http://sparkster11.deviantart.com/ my deviantart Wheelman of the House of Trolls, "I love it when you watch" Carrier of Section 2, 3 and 6 cargo. Resident Driver Stud God of Transportation and Lust.
God I hope not. That pen and paper is a piece of crap which insults the franchise it was supposedly inspired by.


Have you managed to find a copy? To the best of my knowledge it's still not been released.
Advice for DMs: When you are ad lib or improve DMing don't self-edit yourself. Some of the most fun you'll ever have is by just going with whatever crazy thing crosses your mind based on what your players are doing. Advice for Players: When your DM is ad libbing there are bound to be plot holes and inconsistencies that crop up. You'll all have a lot more fun if you just roll with it instead of nitpicking the details.
Previous Advice
Advice for DMs: Always dangle a lot of plot hooks in front of you players. Anything they do not bite you can bring back and bite them later. When considering a new house rule ask yourself the question "Will this make the game more fun?" Unless the answer is a resounding yes don't do it. Advice for Players: Always tell the DM not just what you want to do but also what you are hoping to accomplish. No matter how logical the result is it will never happen if it simply never occurred to the DM. "That's what my character would do" is not a valid excuse for being a disruptive ass at the table. Your right to have fun only extends to the point where it impedes the ability of others to do likewise.
Actually, I saw somewhere that WotC is putting out a 4e-based sci-fi setting.  Gamma World, using 4e rules, is set to relase October 2010 according a WotC twitter.  There is an entire thread about it on the D20 Modern board.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...-

Granted, it's not the SWSE system, but it might be close enough for government work.


If this new Gamma World is anything like the old it will be a very different beast indeed.
Advice for DMs: When you are ad lib or improve DMing don't self-edit yourself. Some of the most fun you'll ever have is by just going with whatever crazy thing crosses your mind based on what your players are doing. Advice for Players: When your DM is ad libbing there are bound to be plot holes and inconsistencies that crop up. You'll all have a lot more fun if you just roll with it instead of nitpicking the details.
Previous Advice
Advice for DMs: Always dangle a lot of plot hooks in front of you players. Anything they do not bite you can bring back and bite them later. When considering a new house rule ask yourself the question "Will this make the game more fun?" Unless the answer is a resounding yes don't do it. Advice for Players: Always tell the DM not just what you want to do but also what you are hoping to accomplish. No matter how logical the result is it will never happen if it simply never occurred to the DM. "That's what my character would do" is not a valid excuse for being a disruptive ass at the table. Your right to have fun only extends to the point where it impedes the ability of others to do likewise.
God I hope not. That pen and paper is a piece of crap which insults the franchise it was supposedly inspired by.


Have you managed to find a copy? To the best of my knowledge it's still not been released.



I'm pretty sure it has been released, I don't think you can get it on amazon though. Last I saw you had to get it from their site. You can buy the pdf currrently, the hard copy is still on preorder.

You also get a good idea of the system by looking at the pdf class previews.
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Heh, I checked out Amazon a just a bit ago, and guess what? The price of all SAGA material jumped by ten cents since yesterday. Go figure.
Ten cents?!?!? $0.10?!!??
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

I know! I was basically crapping myself when I saw that!
I just like to use any excuse I can find to use the smiley.  He rawks. 
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

Just like SAGA Edition does!
Damnit, I'd been considering buying SAGA stuff someday. Annoyance (heh, just wait till I get angry enough to organize a mob).
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne! Resident Invisible Man Lurker in the House of Trolls A Testament to My Glory
Actually, I saw somewhere that WotC is putting out a 4e-based sci-fi setting.  Gamma World, using 4e rules, is set to relase October 2010 according a WotC twitter.  There is an entire thread about it on the D20 Modern board.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...-

Granted, it's not the SWSE system, but it might be close enough for government work.


If this new Gamma World is anything like the old it will be a very different beast indeed.


GW always struck me as being almost exclusively beer & pretzels gaming. Not quite as nutty as, say, Paranoia, but still not something to take seriously.

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

Heh, I've heard the same things be said about D&D too.
Heh, I've heard the same things be said about D&D too.


Maybe it's true.


I love playing D&D, but... to take a game as seriously as many seem to is pretty weird to me.

Resident jark. Resident Minister of Education and Misinformation.
Heh, I've heard the same things be said about D&D too.


Maybe it's true.


I love playing D&D, but... to take a game as seriously as many seem to is pretty weird to me.



A few of the student workers at the library's circulation desk are SCA guys.  They work on making genuine leather armor, chain mail, and so-on, regularly.  One of the guys has been working on his armor at the desk, tying together leather plates to make some sort of leather scale mail, or bending links together to make stainless-steel chain mail.  He comes to work every now and then wearing full armor, as he tries to adjust to carrying the extra weight in all tasks.

With that in mind as a comparison, I don't think I've ever seen anyone take D&D too seriously.
Resident Over-Educated Ivory-Tower Elitist [You don't have the Need-to-Know for that, citizen]
What WotC should do:
Take the core SAGA system, strip out all the Star Wars IP material and release it as their own SF system early next year with heavy support (miniatures, modules, setting, etc.) and which would be backwards-compatible with existing SAGA material.

What WotC will do:
Wait way too long before creating a brand-new half-assed SF system from the ground up, release it at the exactly wrong time and completely fail to support it before letting it die a slow and painful death from neglect.

Oh well.



Actually, I saw somewhere that WotC is putting out a 4e-based sci-fi setting.  Gamma World, using 4e rules, is set to relase October 2010 according a WotC twitter.  There is an entire thread about it on the D20 Modern board.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...-

Granted, it's not the SWSE system, but it might be close enough for government work.



Barring that there's always GM Sarli's e20 Project...
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
A particularly apt example occured to me of what WotC could have done with keeping SAGA alive sans the Star Wars license: Mass Effect.

Back in 2003 Bioware released Knights of the Old Republic (KotOR), a fantastic RPG lauded for its writing, storytelling and gameplay (with mechanics based on the d20 Star Wars system) which they followed up with a sequel in 2004.

Seeing the potential in the Old Repbulic universe they'd created, a decision was made to develop it into an MMO rather than simply release more sequels, but they did not wish to simply discard the excellent single-player engine they'd created or to have an MMO be their only SF property, so they created their own SF property in the form of Mass Effect.

With Mass Effect they were able to create and explore their own unique game universe free from the limitations, both legal and creative, of the Star Wars licence and in the process creating a massively popular and successful new RPG franchise. I see no reason why WotC could not do the same with SAGA and a pen-and-paper RPG, though the fact they are priming Gamma World as their next big IP (historically a niche game within the already niche RPG market) I doubt they will, and even were they to do a new SFRPG it would be made using variant 4e rules rather than SAGA.
Advice for DMs: When you are ad lib or improve DMing don't self-edit yourself. Some of the most fun you'll ever have is by just going with whatever crazy thing crosses your mind based on what your players are doing. Advice for Players: When your DM is ad libbing there are bound to be plot holes and inconsistencies that crop up. You'll all have a lot more fun if you just roll with it instead of nitpicking the details.
Previous Advice
Advice for DMs: Always dangle a lot of plot hooks in front of you players. Anything they do not bite you can bring back and bite them later. When considering a new house rule ask yourself the question "Will this make the game more fun?" Unless the answer is a resounding yes don't do it. Advice for Players: Always tell the DM not just what you want to do but also what you are hoping to accomplish. No matter how logical the result is it will never happen if it simply never occurred to the DM. "That's what my character would do" is not a valid excuse for being a disruptive ass at the table. Your right to have fun only extends to the point where it impedes the ability of others to do likewise.
A particularly apt example occured to me of what WotC could have done with keeping SAGA alive sans the Star Wars license: Mass Effect.

Back in 2003 Bioware released Knights of the Old Republic (KotOR), a fantastic RPG lauded for its writing, storytelling and gameplay (with mechanics based on the d20 Star Wars system) which they followed up with a sequel in 2004.

Seeing the potential in the Old Repbulic universe they'd created, a decision was made to develop it into an MMO rather than simply release more sequels, but they did not wish to simply discard the excellent single-player engine they'd created or to have an MMO be their only SF property, so they created their own SF property in the form of Mass Effect.

With Mass Effect they were able to create and explore their own unique game universe free from the limitations, both legal and creative, of the Star Wars licence and in the process creating a massively popular and successful new RPG franchise. I see no reason why WotC could not do the same with SAGA and a pen-and-paper RPG, though the fact they are priming Gamma World as their next big IP (historically a niche game within the already niche RPG market) I doubt they will, and even were they to do a new SFRPG it would be made using variant 4e rules rather than SAGA.



Yeah, I could have gotten behind something like that... creating their own SF universe and making it compatible, I mean. Gamma World? Never has interested me, or anybody I know... and I know lots of people, older and younger gamers alike. Few even mention Gamma World, even those old enough to have played it on first release, and I've never met anybody who's played it.



Resident jark. Resident Minister of Education and Misinformation.
WotC also has the rights to TSR's old Star Drive setting, originally used in the Alternity system and partially revived for d20 Future.

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

Yeah, I could have gotten behind something like that... creating their own SF universe and making it compatible, I mean. Gamma World? Never has interested me, or anybody I know... and I know lots of people, older and younger gamers alike. Few even mention Gamma World, even those old enough to have played it on first release, and I've never met anybody who's played it.


Hell, why not follow Bioware's lead and acquire the license to do a Mass Effect RPG? Given that Mass Effect grew out of KotOR, which itself was based on the Star Wars d20 mechanics, making the conversion should be rather simple. I'd buy a Mass Effect RPG in a hearbeat.
Advice for DMs: When you are ad lib or improve DMing don't self-edit yourself. Some of the most fun you'll ever have is by just going with whatever crazy thing crosses your mind based on what your players are doing. Advice for Players: When your DM is ad libbing there are bound to be plot holes and inconsistencies that crop up. You'll all have a lot more fun if you just roll with it instead of nitpicking the details.
Previous Advice
Advice for DMs: Always dangle a lot of plot hooks in front of you players. Anything they do not bite you can bring back and bite them later. When considering a new house rule ask yourself the question "Will this make the game more fun?" Unless the answer is a resounding yes don't do it. Advice for Players: Always tell the DM not just what you want to do but also what you are hoping to accomplish. No matter how logical the result is it will never happen if it simply never occurred to the DM. "That's what my character would do" is not a valid excuse for being a disruptive ass at the table. Your right to have fun only extends to the point where it impedes the ability of others to do likewise.
I will second that.
http://guild.medialoungeca.com/index.php?action=forum The Guild I'm apart of. We're in WOW, STO, Rift and soon Star Wars feel free to register and hang out. http://sparkster11.deviantart.com/ my deviantart Wheelman of the House of Trolls, "I love it when you watch" Carrier of Section 2, 3 and 6 cargo. Resident Driver Stud God of Transportation and Lust.
Hell, why not follow Bioware's lead and acquire the license to do a Mass Effect RPG? Given that Mass Effect grew out of KotOR, which itself was based on the Star Wars d20 mechanics, making the conversion should be rather simple. I'd buy a Mass Effect RPG in a hearbeat.


But then you'd have an RPG, based off a game, inspired by another game, based on an RPG, which was based off a movie.

And that'd just be weird.

Resident Over-Educated Ivory-Tower Elitist [You don't have the Need-to-Know for that, citizen]

But then you'd have an RPG, based off a game, inspired by another game, based on an RPG, which was based off a movie.

And that'd just be weird.



If you think that's weird, you should see me naked.

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.


But then you'd have an RPG, based off a game, inspired by another game, based on an RPG, which was based off a movie.

And that'd just be weird.



If you think that's weird, you should see me naked.


Awkward?  Sure.  But unless you're half wookie or something, I doubt it's that weird.
Resident Over-Educated Ivory-Tower Elitist [You don't have the Need-to-Know for that, citizen]

Awkward?  Sure.  But unless you're half wookie or something, I doubt it's that weird.


Guess which half now.

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

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