Done It All, or did I?

Awesome New Talent Done It all, and the Feat Adaptive Talent both give you limited access to one or more talents. Do these limited access talents equate to you actually having the “Virtual Talents” in order to qualify for 2nd, 3rd tier talents or prestige classes?


I guess they would for entering prestige classes, but what about using a 2nd or 3rd tier talent?


Sure, if the Talent says “when you use X, you may do X +1”, then it would not make sense to allow a character to use without activating the prerequisite.


   But others like, Equilibrium and Force Recovery & Surveillance and Intimate Knowledge have separate individual uses that are similar but do not necessarily built upon using the prereq at the time of the 2nd tier's use.. others (like Lightsaber Throw and Improved Throw Lightsaber) of course would?  


   What do you think? - since it is so…case by case, and sort of a “just use your best judgment”… should there be a standardized yes or no…or did I  miss the standardized yes / no?


Thanks in advance Community

I am going to come down as NO! to using either of those as a stepping stone to meet other prereqs.


With Done it All you may select two other talents but you only get to USE one by spending a FP and even then they only last until the end of your next turn.  To me there is absolutely no way the talents accesses by this talent should ever be looked at when it comes to filling any kind of prereq.


The Adaptable Talent feat however is a different kind of monster and not one I like very much.  Now it clearly says "the talent you swap out cannot be the prerequisise for any other talent you have," and because you can swap back in the original I'm thinking neither could be a prereq for others; now I guess the talent selected by this feat could be used as a prereq while in but in that case you will be "locking" the talent in permanently as you could no longer swap it out.  As for PrCs it would appear that which talent is "loaded" could be used to meet prereqs but then there is the question about "what happens if I no longer qualify for my PrC?" if you swap it out; my solution would be to forbid swapping out any talent that is used as a prerequisite of any kind.  Ultimately I may allow a talent selected by this feat to be used as a prereq but once it becomes a prereq it is locked in which means you've effectively spend a feat to alter one of your talents into somethig else which you could have taken anyway given that you have to meet the prereqs to select it.

   Your logic is sound StevenO, but I will begrudgingly voice a protest or two. Not because I want to disprove you, but rather in preparation for one of my players who will weasel all over these character options…and I am unsure where I stand, so I can stand firm on up coming deliberation. And of course my closet munchkining is a compelling factor.


And for the prodding-


   As for Done It All- would you allow a player to select the same “gained” talent...twice? If I am interpreting your logic correctly- they don’t technically possess either talent gained by Done It All, until they have spent that Force Point? 


   I am having some difficulty verbalizing the almost obvious distinguishing elements that incite my protest…maybe it’s a non-relevant wording issue. But I find it odd, that Done It All specifically states that you may not select a Prestige Class talent, where the other Adaptable Talent does not.  Do you interpret this as an oversight or a relevance to the practical availability of acquired “virtual” talents?

Thank you~

No they do not allow you to use them as prerequisites. If they did, there would be a sentence or two to that effect. All they really do is give you a little more versatility.

As for Adaptive Talent not indicating that you can't use it to access a prestige class talent ... do you really think it was the designers' intent to allow you to do that? I highly doubt it. Most likely an oversight.

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~ David G. Allen

 

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Sure a player could select the same talent twice with Done It All but the "problem" is that you spend your FP and you get to select ONE to use.  All selecting the same talent does is force your selection.  I'll also point out that after that character's next turn they once again do not have the talent chosen with Done It All.

As for talent selection using those two things there is a slight, but important, difference.  With the talent you "choose two talents (from any nonPrC) that you do not possess but for which you meet the prereqs" but with the feat you "choose one talent that you meet the prerqs for, from a class you possess."  The talent restricts your choices to base classes, the feat restricts your choices to thing you could have already taken.  With Adaptable Talent you COULD select a PrC talent but it would be something in a class you've already taken.


 

As for talent selection using those two things there is a slight, but important, difference.  With the talent you "choose two talents (from any nonPrC) that you do not possess but for which you meet the prereqs" but with the feat you "choose one talent that you meet the prerqs for, from a class you possess."  The talent restricts your choices to base classes, the feat restricts your choices to thing you could have already taken.  With Adaptable Talent you COULD select a PrC talent but it would be something in a class you've already taken.

Ah yes. Good catch, Steven.

"Patience is the calm acceptance that things can happen in a different order than the one you have in mind."

~ David G. Allen

 

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