PEACH Sorcadin/Daggermaster/Sage of Ages DPR build

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Sorcerer//Paladin/Daggermaster/Sage of Ages


TL;DR version
~335 single target DPR

 


Goal and Tactics:


This is meant to be a crit oriented single target DPR build.  Crit rates are improved through Bless Weapon (Salves of Power + Morninglord providing radiant vulnerability), Sorcerous Flux, and Keeper's Prescience.  Crit damage is stacked through feats and items and helped immensely by Fury of the Storm.  Extra attacks on a critical hit are gained through Ruthless Spellfury and Two Weapon Opening.  Divine Challenge and White Lotus Master Riposte ensure a tad more damage.  I haven't written a full build, but I imagine such a character would focus on encounters and dailies that add survivability and utility.


 


Disclaimer: I feel like this work is at least presentable, but I haven't been optimizing (or even playing) for about a year, so I'm sure there are mistakes.  I'll fix them as they are brough to my attention.


Level 30 Snapshot:


Race: Human
Class: Paladin/Sorcerer Hybrid
Paragon Path: Daggermaster
Epic Destiny: Sage of Ages





Ability Scores, with racial adjustments:
Str 13 (+1)
Con 12 (+1)
Dex 22 (+6)
Int 12 (+1)
Wis 10 (+0)
Cha 28 (+9)

HP: 190

AC: 41 (25 base, +6 dex, +4 armor, +6 enhance, +2 Trick of Knowledge)
Fort: 39 (25 base, +1 Str, +1 class, +6 enhance, +4 misc, +2 Trick of Knowledge)
Reflex: 40 (25 base, +6 dex, +6 enhance, +2 Trick of Knowledge)
Will: 44 (25 base, +9 Cha, +6 enhance, +1 misc, +2 Trick of Knowledge)

Speed: 6

Feats:
Focused Expertise (Daggers)
Weapon Focus (Light Blades)
White Lotus Riposte
Leather Armor Prof
Hybrid Talent (Storm Magic)
Two-Weapon Fighting
Sneak of Shadows
Wintertouched
Lasting Frost
Two Weapon Opening
Arcane Admixture (Burning Spray, Cold)
Devastating Critical


Power of Arcane
War Wizardry
White Lotus Master Riposte
Sorcerous Flux
Fury of the Storm
Ruthless Spellfury
Font of Radiance
Quickened Spellcasting

Magic Items (rough list):
Brooch of Vitality (epic)
+6 Runic Leather Armor
+6 Symbol of the Champion's Code
+6 Bloodiron Dagger
+6 Wraithstrike Dagger
Belt of Vim (epic)
Executioner's Bracers
2x Siberys Shard of Radiance (epic)
Gloves of Ice (epic)
War Ring
Ring of Giants



[sblock=Attacks and Damage]

Burning Spray

Hit Calculations

Normal
15 base
+9 Cha
+3 Expertise
+6 Enhancement
+2 Trick of Knowledge
+2 Combat Advantage
Total = +38 (vs 42)
15% base crit
65% base hit
20% base miss

Modified Hit Calculations
Note: Crit and hit rates are calculated assuming one extra enemy and the PC are in the AoE. Crit rate is
1-(x^n) where x is the rate of not critting (85%) and n is the number of attack rolls made. Miss rate is
the same, but with x representing miss chance (15%).

.85 non-crit ^ 4 = .522 non-crit = 47.8% crit chance
.15 miss ^ 4 = .16% miss chance
1 - .478 crit chance - .0005 miss chance = 52.04% hit chance


Damage Calculations

Normal Hit:
9 base (2d8)
+9 Cha
+10 Storm Power
+6 Implement
+3 Feat (weapon focus)
+1 TWF
+4 Cold (Gloves of Ice)
+5 Cold Vulnerability (Lasting Frost)
+5 Augment
Total = 52

Critical Hit
59 base (regular damage +7 for max dmg dice)
+60 Bloodiron dmg Dice
+10 War Ring
+12 Ring of Giants
+18 Executioner's Bracers
+10 Devastating Critical

+30 Wraithblade
+140 Bloodiron Repeat Damage
+46.9 Virtuous Strike (Attack from Two Weapon Opening on a crit)
Total = 385.9



Virtuous Strike

Hit Calculation

15 base
+3 Proficiency
+9 Cha
+3 Expertise
+6 Enhancement
+2 Trick of Knowledge
+2 Combat Advantage
Total = +30 (vs 42)
15% crit
80% hit
5% miss


Damage Calculations

Normal Hit:
5
base
+9 Cha
+6 Weapon Enhancement
+3 Weapon Focus
+5 Augment

+10 Storm Power
Total = 38

Critical Hit:
41
base (normal damage +3 max dmg dice)
+21 weapon critical
+3.5 War Ring
+12 Ring of Giants
+10.5 Executioner's Bracers
+5.5 Devastating Critical


+17.5 Wraithblade
Total = 111



Damage per Attack

30.4 (80% hit * 38 dmg)
16.5 (15% crit * 105.5 dmg)
Total = 46.9 dmg/attack


Divine Challenge DPR

+9 Cha
+4 level
+6 Symbol of the Champion's Code
Total = 19


Total DPR Calculation

27.06 DPR (52.04% Burning Spray hit * 52 dmg)
186.181 DPR (47.8% Burning Spray crit * 389.5 dmg)
213.24 = Subtotal
101.9 DPR (47.8% crit * 213.24 dmg {repeat Burning Spray via Ruthless Spellfury on crit})
19 DPR Divine Challenge
Total = 334.17 Single Target DPR


 

Updated a few of the dmg calculations.  I'd like to submit this to the DPR King thread, but I would like to wrinkle out any errors first.  Feedback welcome!
use ankmon's bracers instead.  They might be better.  When you crit you add 10 damage and heal that much. Would that be the same as the expected from your current ones?
To do a MBA(virtous strike) when you crit (TWO) dont you have to be next to your target, implying that you're provoking when casting blazing starfall? 
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
why both a ring of giants and a war ring?
brightleaf is a reagent and can only be applied to encounter and daily powers.
The sundial is a stationary object meant for DM's in designing castles.  You can't use it.
Use a symbol of divine light so the radiant vulnerability is increased 
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Can you break down the thinking behind the 4 rolls for blazing starfall?  I understand that you're assuming 1 extra enemy and yourself are in the area as well as the target but I'm missing the extra roll on top of that.

I'm loving the build though - I just don't understand it fully.
Sage of ages's feature for 1 roll is the extra missing one
You also forgot to calculate the expected damage from font of radiance.  If you have a 50% chance to crit each round, you can expect to do 50% of the damage incurred from font of radiance

I'm interested in how much crit focusing can be done in paragon.  Most of the crit-centric stuff is epic.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
@borg -Tthanks for the feedback.  I knew there had to be some glaring errors, I just needed help uncovering them.  Will update the based on the brightleaf/sundial issue.  As for the item recommendations, I'm checking them out now.  I used those rings because they increase crit dmg, but if something else helps more I'm open to it.  The symbol currently used helps Divine Challenge damage plus radiant vulnerability won't be an issue if I can't use brightleaf.

You are correct that the crit-centric stuff is all epic level (kinda a bummer, but at least it isn't limited to level 30).  Other than getting an 18-20 crit range and Two-Weapon opening, not much happens in paragon.

@Netarious - As Borg pointed out, the last roll comes from Sage of Age's feature.  It is strictly better than the flux rolls because you get to use it every round, independent of how many targets you hit (so worst case scenario this build maintains 27% crit rate).  It's also good because you can choose to apply the roll after see attack roll results, so it's never wasted.
you added implement bonus damage to virtuous strike... it doesn't have the implement keyword, am I missing something?
Of course!  Brilliant.

@borg

1) Checking on the reagents I couldn't find the rule that says they only work with encounter/dailies.  Can you tell me where to find it?  If Brightleaf doesn't work I may end up drastically changing the build, using Bless Weapon with salves of power to recharge for my 18-20 crit range and using the Morninglord PP.
2) Re: Font of Radiance - the 3d6 dmg (plus vulnerability) is actually calculated in to the crit dmg numbers (assumes the creature will still be in the same place when they start their turn).  Damage on subsequent rounds is not figured since it depends on other variables.

@dirdon

It's an enhancement bonus from the weapon used, just mislabeled.  Which reminds me that as a weapon attack I should be adding in proficiency bonus to attack I think.
wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateDec2009.pdf
on page 38 at the bottom of the page.  It makes sense for ballance.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateDec2009.pdf
on page 38 at the bottom of the page.  It makes sense for ballance.



Touche.  Well sadly this means I will abandon the brilliant vulnerability or I will have to cheese it up with Bless Weapon/Salves of Power/Morninglord.
wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateDec2009.pdf
on page 38 at the bottom of the page.  It makes sense for ballance.



Touche.  Well sadly this means I will abandon the brilliant vulnerability or I will have to cheese it up with Bless Weapon/Salves of Power/Morninglord.


Remember that Morninglord doesn't apply the vulnerability until after you hit a target, which is too late to gain the 18-20 crit range.  You would only be able to crit with 18/19 on a target with the second attack you hit, which will drastically affect your dpr.
That's true.  A crit can't be applied retroactivly.  you roll and see if you hit.  You do and thus apply vulnerability but a moment to late for bless weapon.  Back to the drawing board.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?

Remember that Morninglord doesn't apply the vulnerability until after you hit a target, which is too late to gain the 18-20 crit range.  You would only be able to crit with 18/19 on a target with the second attack you hit, which will drastically affect your dpr.



I guess I was thinking more in terms of every attack after the first round.  Morninglord applies the vulnerability until the end of your next round and with a miss rate of .05%, it's safe to assume you hit the round before.
Frostcheese builds make the same assumption.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
with a miss rate of .05%, it's safe to assume you hit the round before.


Even lower miss rate once you add in the proficiency bonus, I think?
with a miss rate of .05%, it's safe to assume you hit the round before.


Even lower miss rate once you add in the proficiency bonus, I think?


1 is auto-miss.  No matter how high your attack bonus
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
with a miss rate of .05%, it's safe to assume you hit the round before.


Even lower miss rate once you add in the proficiency bonus, I think?


1 is auto-miss.  No matter how high your attack bonus



It's sad but I've played 4e so little that I didn't even know this.  

Edit: In other news, as long as I'm going to abuse salves of power, I think I'll do it with the 5th level Pally power Sign of Vulnerability and just open up each fight with that. 
with a miss rate of .05%, it's safe to assume you hit the round before.


Even lower miss rate once you add in the proficiency bonus, I think?


1 is auto-miss.  No matter how high your attack bonus


Yes, but it appears his hit calculations without proficiency (+3 for daggers) are calculating +38 versus 42, which is not hitting on a  2+.  Indeed, he starts by assuming a 15% base miss chance, where hitting on anything but a 1 would be a 5% miss chance.

Calculations before adding proficiency: .15^4=.00051, or .05% miss chance
Calculations after adding proficiency: .05^4=.0000063, or .0006% miss chance

Not sure the distinction would really impact dpr significantly, but it makes it feel a lot better to rely on hitting the first turn.

Or am I missing something? 
Also, regarding missing on a 1, that works a little differently for this build now that I think about it.  Normally if your hit bonus is higher that the target defense, you still end up with a 5% miss chance thanks to missing on a one.  When you are dealing with multiple attack rolls though, you can actually break that threshold and go below 5% miss chance.  With 4 attack rolls you have to get a 1 on all attacks to miss, which means your chance to miss is actually .05^4 or .000000625.

For this particular build, even a 30% miss chance on the opening Blazing Starfall attack translates to less than a 1% miss chance with the 4 attack rolls or a 3% miss chance with just three attack rolls (stone of light helps here).

Edit: Alphathegreat beat me to it 
I updated to reflect that the build now uses Bless Weapon in conjunction with Morninglord to maintain 18-20 crit range (after one successful hit with a radiant power) while increasing Radiant Vulnerability.  Also fixed a few problems pointed out by Borg, like the use of the Sundial and obviously got rid of brightleaf.  Total DPR is just over 350 now.
A fair amount of this is going over my head.  Is there any chance you could kindly add a section where you explain this build in simpler terms as well as any assumptions made? 

I see that the build relies to standing in blazing starfall and being a target of the spell as well - can I also assume that you would be casting it whilst standing in melee range for two-weapon opening?
Also could you perhaps work out the DPR based on the fact it is just you vs 1 enemy.  I'm sure the DPR will still be massive.

And work out which Holy Symbol you're using! 
Why are you adding Combat Advantage and Trick of knowledge on your virtous strike attack.  It isn't arcane and you only get CA with cold powers
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I propose to you a better version with more scenario DPR values
Blazing Starfall
Attack

8(cha)
3(enh)
3(draconic spellcaster)
2(trick of knowledge)
2(CA)
1(blessed weapon)
3(expertise)
15(1/2 level)
damage

6(DIS)
8 cha
6 enhance
12 sorcerous power
3 feat
1(TWF)
5(shard)
5 waistband
10 vulnerabilty mroninglord
5(symbol of light)
5(cold vulnerability)
4(gloves of ice)
6 (subtle)
5 (average damage of 2d4)
1d6 (blessed weapon)
--------
10+20+10+10+10+10+11+3.5=84.5
crit

91 base
chance to crit * expected
2*60 max bloodiron
2*24 2*ring of giant
2*10 (devestating crit)
12 exocuter's bracers
32.85 TWO
-------
91+120+48+20+12+32.85=323.85 (no ruthless spellfury)
Ruthless spellfury

1 vulnerable foes in area (2 attack rolls)
1-.85^2 = .28
expected = (.95.28)*84.5+.28*323.85=147
(.95-.28)*84.5+.28*(323.85+147)=188
2 vulnerable foes in area (3 attack rolls)
1-.85^3 = .36
expected = (.95-.36)*84.5+.36*323.85=166
(.95-.36)*84.5+.36*(323.85+166)=226
3 vulnerable foes in area (4 attack rolls)
1-.85^4 = .48
expected = (.95-.48)*84.5+.48*323.85=195
(.95-.48)*84.5+.48*(323.85+195)=288
4 vulnerable foes in area (5 attack rolls)
1-.85^5 =.55
expected = (.95-.55)*84.5+.55*323.85=212
(.95-.55)*84.5+.55*(323.85+212)=328
5 vulnerable foes in area (6 attack rolls)
1-.85^6 = .62
expected = (.95-.62)*84.5+.62*323.85=228
(.95-.62)*84.5+.62*(323.85+228)=370

virtous strike
attack

8 cha
15 lvl
3 prof
6 enh
3 exp
-------
+35 vs 45 AC
45% to hit, 15% crit
damage

8 cha
6 enh
3 feat
5 waistband
10 radiant vulnability
5 symbol
5 shard
1d6 blessed
5 (2d4 weapon)
--------
14+8+20+8=50
crit

58 base
21 (6d6 critical)
10.5 (3d6 exocuters)
24 ring of giant
5.5 (d10 devestating)
------
45+58+16 = 119
.3*50+.15*119 = 32.85
font of radiance

10.5 (3d6)
15 radiant vulnerability
-----
25.5
Divine challange / white lotus riposte

12 (4+cha)
15 radiant vulnerability
-------
27


Total DPR
1 vulnerable foes in area (2 attack rolls)188+25+27 = 244
2 vulnerable foes in area (3 attack rolls)226+25+27 = 297
3 vulnerable foes in area (4 attack rolls)288+25+27 = 345
4 vulnerable foes in area (5 attack rolls)328+25+27 = 390
5 vulnerable foes in area (6 attack rolls)370+25+27 = 430
This follows very closely(R^2=.99) to the function: 
DPR(n foes) = 46*n+201
build

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======

sorcerer crit, level 30

Dragonborn, Sorcerer|Paladin, Morninglord, Sage of Ages

Sorcerous Power: Sorcerous Power Strength

Hybrid Paladin: Hybrid Paladin Fortitude

Hybrid Talent: Soul of the Sorcerer

Soul of the Sorcerer: Storm Soul

Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Cold

Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength

Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Fire

Adaptable Breath: Dragon Breath Cold

Background: Occupation - Criminal (Thievery class skill)


FINAL ABILITY SCORES

Str 26, Con 13, Dex 15, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 26.


STARTING ABILITY SCORES

Str 16, Con 11, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 16.



AC: 40 Fort: 40 Reflex: 33 Will: 41

HP: 171 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 43


TRAINED SKILLS

Thievery +22, Arcana +33, Athletics +28


UNTRAINED SKILLS

Acrobatics +17, Bluff +23, Diplomacy +23, Dungeoneering +21, Endurance +16, Heal +15, History +24, Insight +16, Intimidate +31, Nature +21, Perception +16, Religion +22, Stealth +17, Streetwise +23


FEATS

Level 1: White Lotus Riposte

Level 2: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)

Level 4: Armor Proficiency (Leather) (retrained to Sorcerous Flux at Level 21)

Level 6: Hybrid Talent

Level 8: Draconic Spellcaster

Level 10: Adaptable Breath (retrained to War Wizardry at Level 11)

Level 11: White Lotus Master Riposte

Level 12: Two-Weapon Fighting

Level 14: Two-Weapon Opening

Level 16: Devastating Critical

Level 18: Focused Expertise (Dagger)

Level 20: Dragonborn Senses (retrained to Fury of the Storm at Level 22)

Level 21: Ruthless Spellfury

Level 22: Font of Radiance

Level 24: Dual Implement Spellcaster

Level 26: Arcane Admixture

Level 28: Wintertouched

Level 30: Lasting Frost


POWERS

Hybrid Paladin at-will 1: Virtuous Strike

Hybrid Sorcerer at-will 1: Blazing Starfall

Hybrid encounter 1: Mists of Disarray

Hybrid daily 1: Majestic Halo

Hybrid utility 2: Arcane Mutterings (retrained to Fast Hands at Level 10)

Hybrid encounter 3: Avenging Smite

Hybrid daily 5: Glacial Armor

Hybrid utility 6: Swift Escape

Hybrid encounter 7: Rimestorm

Hybrid daily 9: Winds of Change

Hybrid utility 10: Arcane Mutterings

Hybrid encounter 13: Thunder Breath (replaces Rimestorm)

Hybrid daily 15: Lightning Daggers (replaces Winds of Change)

Hybrid utility 16: Divine Aegis

Hybrid encounter 17: Poisonous Evasion (replaces Mists of Disarray)

Hybrid daily 19: Blackfire Serpent (replaces Glacial Armor)

Hybrid utility 22: Platinum Scales

Hybrid encounter 23: Plates of Ice (replaces Thunder Breath)

Hybrid daily 25: Lightning Daggers (replaces Lightning Daggers)

Hybrid encounter 27: Brand of Judgment (replaces Plates of Ice)

Hybrid daily 29: Wyrm Form (replaces Lightning Daggers)


ITEMS

Runic Efreetweave Armor +6, Bloodiron Dagger +6, Symbol of Divine Light +4, Siberys Shard of Radiance (epic tier) (2), Waistband of the Grappler (paragon tier), Executioner's Bracers (epic tier), Subtle Dagger +6, Iron of Spite (epic tier), Wyrmtouched Amulet +6, Ring of Giants (paragon tier) (2), Survivor's Boots (paragon tier), Blood Fury Khopesh +1 (10), Tattoo of the Wolverine (epic tier), Thieves' Tools, Gloves of Ice (epic tier), Solitaire (Aquamarine) (paragon tier), Whistle of Warning (heroic tier) (10), Solitaire (Violet) (epic tier), Stone of Light (paragon tier), Lens of Descernment (heroic tier), Flute of the Dancing Satyr (heroic tier), Lamp of Discerning (heroic tier), Rust Bark (epic tier) (10), Adventurer's Kit

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DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I just thought of a really cheesy idea.  I've run the numbers of a sage of ages(extra floating d20) vs. Punisher of the Gods (oozing with cheese by allowing you to make another blazing starfall with a crit).  Inially the DPR takes a hit because you don't have the extra d20 when facing 1 target.  But when you get above 2 foes in your blazing starfall your DPR goes above 305 whereas the sage only gets 287.
I've fit both curves and the sage gets 46n+192 and the punisher gets 75n+77, both with an R^2 value of .99.
I've run some numbers and even if you have a team of size x each with a symbol of divine light the breakeven point is the same namely if the number of foes = 3.6.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I just thought of a really cheesy idea.  I've run the numbers of a sage of ages(extra floating d20) vs. Punisher of the Gods (oozing with cheese by allowing you to make another blazing starfall with a crit).  Inially the DPR takes a hit because you don't have the extra d20 when facing 1 target.  But when you get above 2 foes in your blazing starfall your DPR goes above 305 whereas the sage only gets 287.
I've fit both curves and the sage gets 46n+192 and the punisher gets 75n+77, both with an R^2 value of .99.



Long ago when I followed the forums I remember Punisher of the Gods being off-limits for optimization because it was totally broken (though I never checked to see what the problem was).  Has this been fixed such that it's acceptable to use in competitive builds?

Also, regarding the Dragonborn version you posted, is it really doing more damage?  The version in the OP does 350 DPR vs 2 targets, where the one you listed does 297 (though that's with 3 attack rolls, presumable leaving yourself out of the AoE, but even the 4 attack rolls one is at 345).   What specific advantages does that build have in terms of feats and features?

Thinking again about Punisher, I'm going to avoid going that route simply because with the AoE damage you are putting out, there are bound to be several times when it's just the BBEG left standing.  I know my DPR calculations assume 2 enemies, but when it gets down to just 1, it's a pretty big deal to have 28% crit vs. just 15%. 
higher hit rate is higher thanks to draconic spellcaster (better throughout your career as you don't always face equal level monsters).  It has aa slightly higher sorcerer extra damage (+2 strength).  Human's have an extra feat which is better throughout the career.  The boost to strength urges you to choose strength over dex for hybrid sorcerer.  This allows you more options from paladin powers (many are radiant). 
He has a few miscalculations so his DPR is wrong.  I also cheesed it out with waistband of the grappler.  should prolly get rid if it.

As per punisher of the gods, it was nerfed only slightly.  Before you had an action point to spend when you crit vs one guy (this guy you get to choose when he dies), now you only get either a standard action(Character builder) or get to use an at-will(my memory tells me this).
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
higher hit rate is higher thanks to draconic spellcaster (better throughout your career as you don't always face equal level monsters).  It has aa slightly higher sorcerer extra damage (+2 strength).  Human's have an extra feat which is better throughout the career.  The boost to strength urges you to choose strength over dex for hybrid sorcerer.  This allows you more options from paladin powers (many are radiant). 
He has a few miscalculations so his DPR is wrong.  I also cheesed it out with waistband of the grappler.  should prolly get rid if it.



Better hit is indeed good throughout career, but for the lvl 30 snapshot at least, it doesn't really matter because the miss chance is so low anyway.  Also Str vs. Dex seems like a wash since you end up having to invest some in Dex anyway for TWF.  I'll play around with it, but unless I see some significant boosts from going Dragonborn, I'll probably leave the build human (as much because I'm lazy as anything)  .  

A good reason to be Dragonborn would be if you want to incorporate the new spamable Dragon Breath combo.  That would actually increase DPR a fair bit, but I'm working on that in another build.  Maybe I will combine the two of them for some really high DPR.  Might be hard because one relies on Storm Magic and the other Dragon Magic, but we'll see.

As per punisher of the gods, it was nerfed only slightly.  Before you had an action point to spend when you crit vs one guy (this guy you get to choose when he dies), now you only get either a standard action(Character builder) or get to use an at-will(my memory tells me this).



Ah I remember now, used to be you could keep using APs when you crit, now it's just 1x/turn.  I'm still going to avoid going that route simply because with the AoE damage you are putting out, there are bound to be several times when it's just the BBEG left standing.  I know my DPR calculations assume 2 enemies, but when it gets down to just 1, it's a pretty big deal to have 28% crit vs. just 15%.

higher hit rate is higher thanks to draconic spellcaster (better throughout your career as you don't always face equal level monsters).  It has aa slightly higher sorcerer extra damage (+2 strength).  Human's have an extra feat which is better throughout the career.  The boost to strength urges you to choose strength over dex for hybrid sorcerer.  This allows you more options from paladin powers (many are radiant). 
He has a few miscalculations so his DPR is wrong.  I also cheesed it out with waistband of the grappler.  should prolly get rid if it.



Better hit is indeed good throughout career, but for the lvl 30 snapshot at least, it doesn't really matter because the miss chance is so low anyway.  Also Str vs. Dex seems like a wash since you end up having to invest some in Dex anyway for TWF.  I'll play around with it, but unless I see some significant boosts from going Dragonborn, I'll probably leave the build human (as much because I'm lazy as anything)  .  

A good reason to be Dragonborn would be if you want to incorporate the new spamable Dragon Breath combo.  That would actually increase DPR a fair bit, but I'm working on that in another build.  Maybe I will combine the two of them for some really high DPR.  Might be hard because one relies on Storm Magic and the other Dragon Magic, but we'll see.

As per punisher of the gods, it was nerfed only slightly.  Before you had an action point to spend when you crit vs one guy (this guy you get to choose when he dies), now you only get either a standard action(Character builder) or get to use an at-will(my memory tells me this).



Ah I remember now, used to be you could keep using APs when you crit, now it's just 1x/turn.  I'm still going to avoid going that route simply because with the AoE damage you are putting out, there are bound to be several times when it's just the BBEG left standing.  I know my DPR calculations assume 2 enemies, but when it gets down to just 1, it's a pretty big deal to have 28% crit vs. just 15%.




Could you explain the spamable breath combo? Are you talking about breath expertise + spellsword perfection? How could you fit that into a morninglord/sage of ages build?
I think it's sufficent to read the header of the first post of the thread featuring it.  Basically he's using a PP and ED to make his dragon breath at-will, and a 30th level ring to breath 4/round.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I think it's sufficent to read the header of the first post of the thread featuring it.  Basically he's using a PP and ED to make his dragon breath at-will, and a 30th level ring to breath 4/round.



That's a completely different build though, how could you combine that with a Morninglord/Sage of Ages build?


That's a completely different build though, how could you combine that with a Morninglord/Sage of Ages build?



At this point all you need is Ancient Soul and a way to deal elemental damage to yourself in order to spam Dragon Breath.  One option is hitting yourself with the breath (though that would likely kill you fast), but there are other ways if you just want to use it 1x/round (Delbanian Vambraces for instance).


That's a completely different build though, how could you combine that with a Morninglord/Sage of Ages build?



At this point all you need is Ancient Soul and a way to deal elemental damage to yourself in order to spam Dragon Breath.  One option is hitting yourself with the breath (though that would likely kill you fast), but there are other ways if you just want to use it 1x/round (Delbanian Vambraces for instance).



Where was Ancient Soul printed? I'm intrigued


Where was Ancient Soul printed? I'm intrigued



The new PHB Races Dragonborn paperback product that released this month.  A lot of the info therein is not in the compendium or charbuilder yet.

Ancient Soul is a heroic tier feat requiring Dragonborn and Dragon Magic Sorcerer.  It makes your Dragon Breath be considered an arcane attack power.  Further, if your breath damage type and your resistance type from Dragon Magic match, you regain the use of Dragon Breath any time you take that type of damage.   
minor rules question related to this build..

does the secondary damage (the fire effect) on blazing starfall also do cold damage from the arcane admixture?
minor rules question related to this build..

does the secondary damage (the fire effect) on blazing starfall also do cold damage from the arcane admixture?


Bingo
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
This build got a decent nerf with the Salves of Power change.  I'm guessing this will require swapping Morninglord for Daggermaster to keep the crit rate up (unless I can find some other way to get 18-20).  Several other aspects need to be updated as well.  So this guy is out of commission till I get a few free minutes to make the changes.  Undecided
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