WWK cards so far and their impact on the meta.

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So, from the spoiled card so far, we've got the possibility of allies becoming powerful, a ton of potentially broken mythic rares, some interesting traps, and the return of instant card draw.

But I'm wondering if any of them are powerful enough to replace other cards in current lists.

Jund - I don't think Jund is going to change at all beyond running the RG man-land, and possibly explore if it's cheap enough,

Boros - The new mythic red dragon token guy seems like a solid late-game threat for a stalled out boros, and it certainly fits well in valakut ramp decks, but I don't see RDW trying this guy out unless it's used as a sideboard answer to some control decks.

ELdrazi Green - This is the deck that I beleive is going to see the biggest changes. The mythic green elemental is a perfect fit in this deck, giving elfball lists ultimate efficiency with their overabundant mana. I also beleive this deck is going to splash white or red, since white provides them with solid creature threats + behemoth sledge, and red gives them a comet storm outlet if the mana battery gets plunked.

Junk - WIll also want to run the green mythic, and possibly explore as an alternative to noble hierarch. Possibly the WG manland if it's worth cutting down on plains/forests for feeding KotR. Smother will also make the sideboard at a minimum. Any solid discard engines will also be looked at. The green mythic makes mind shatter so much more appealing as a maindeck option.

Turbofog - hasn't seen any love yet.

RWU Control - Picked up a red-hoser for the sideboard, possibly the red creature trap, but unlikely.

Vamps - picked up another solid 2-drop to replace hexmage.

Any other uses for cards I haven't mentioned? I've toyed around with an allies list a few times, but I keep finding myself making a Junk Allies list that simply does better with a traditional Junk list.

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celestial colonade, jace sculptor of minds, smother, adomination angel as a possible 1-2 in UW/x control, and incremental dudes (bestial menace[possibly some sort of GW tokens or eldrazi green, thought without a glorious anthem for nonwhite dudes probably not likely])
But you were deceived.
So, from the spoiled card so far, we've got the possibility of allies becoming powerful, a ton of potentially broken mythic rares, some interesting traps, and the return of instant card draw.

But I'm wondering if any of them are powerful enough to replace other cards in current lists.

Jund - I don't think Jund is going to change at all beyond running the RG man-land, and possibly explore if it's cheap enough,

Boros - The new mythic red dragon token guy seems like a solid late-game threat for a stalled out boros, and it certainly fits well in valakut ramp decks, but I don't see RDW trying this guy out unless it's used as a sideboard answer to some control decks.

ELdrazi Green - This is the deck that I beleive is going to see the biggest changes. The mythic green elemental is a perfect fit in this deck, giving elfball lists ultimate efficiency with their overabundant mana. I also beleive this deck is going to splash white or red, since white provides them with solid creature threats + behemoth sledge, and red gives them a comet storm outlet if the mana battery gets plunked.

Junk - WIll also want to run the green mythic, and possibly explore as an alternative to noble hierarch. Possibly the WG manland if it's worth cutting down on plains/forests for feeding KotR. Smother will also make the sideboard at a minimum. Any solid discard engines will also be looked at. The green mythic makes mind shatter so much more appealing as a maindeck option.

Turbofog - hasn't seen any love yet.

RWU Control - Picked up a red-hoser for the sideboard, possibly the red creature trap, but unlikely.

Vamps - picked up another solid 2-drop to replace hexmage.

Any other uses for cards I haven't mentioned? I've toyed around with an allies list a few times, but I keep finding myself making a Junk Allies list that simply does better with a traditional Junk list.


the new 2 drop will not replace hexmage..................

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Boros running the Dragonmaster? Yeah right. 
Jund running the RG manland? 2 copies sounds like the average number

Good cards in Worldwake for Standard:

Mysteries of the Deep
Kor Firewalker
Joraga Warcaller
Kalastria Highborn
Jace
Manlands

Will be played but not sure where:
Bestial Menace 
Leatherback Baloth 
Omnath
Smother

I doubt Omnath will be used outside of one or two archetypes. 
Quest for the nihil stone will make discard decks viable and jace could be added to discard as well in order to ensure that they don't draw answers once in top deck mode. With these two cards alone I honestly expect grixxis discard to be a force with WW.

Blue is obviously getting some love in the new jace, instant speed draws, man lands, and controllish cards like tideforce elemental. Most of the landfall controllish blue cards suggest a lean towards U/G as a viable control archetype. Maybe bant control will become a force as well.

Joraga warcaller might make elves an actual deck rather than just throwing together a bunch of tokens with eldrazi to pump them. 

Stone Idol trap may help out R/U trap decks or even pyromancer decks, especially with the new blue  control coming out. Chain reaction screams R/U control in my opinion as it's a 4 cc sweeper capable of taking out an army of massive creatures.

Skitter of lizards might be usable in RDW for the late game potential but RDW seems to already have better one drops so who knows if the late game potential is even worth it as it's not the most mana efficient creature out there.

Omnath Locus of Mana should be amazing and will definitely find its' place in many tier 1 decks in different formats (and possibly be the back bone of some) in my opinion. There's no telling what kind of craziness will happen because of him.

that quest wont help discard enough its not that great and horrible top deck..

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that quest wont help discard enough its not that great and horrible top deck..




IMO grixxis discard is a solid tier 2 or 3 deck as of right now. Taking 5 damage on top of what ever else you're taking and being sure that you're not going to draw answers is a horrible place to be in. If you're in top deck mode, the other guy has a couple of discard creatures on the board and is ensuring that you don't draw answers with jace, you might as well concede.
Kor Firewalker is completely inappropriate.  White (all kinds) is already an autoloss for Red, and so they print a 2/2 pro-red Dragon's Claw?  There aren't enough expletives in all the world's languages to describe the unadulterated malice of the printing of this card.
Sorry, but it's necessary when the top 3-5 decks in the meta all run red. Of course it hoses RDDW the worst, but it's also there to deal with Jund, RWU control, and boros.

As for the Quest for the Nihil Stone, I think it could be made into a solid deck. Niche made a great observation that MBC is likely going to turn towards dedicated discard as it's main threat, and that quest is certainly worthy of being an alternate win-con.

As for Omnath, I just see too many possibilities for him to not see some action is a lot of decks. Possibly one of the best topdeck cards in existence. He's like Protean Hydra + Mana Battery wrapped in one.

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I don't care if it is an ally, Harabaz Druid is freaking sweet.

Harabaz Druid


Here is a great possibility with this guy:

t1:  Heirarch
t2:  This guy
t3:  this guy again and Rhox War Monk
t4:  2 Rhox War Monks and an Honor of the Pure

This will empty your hand turn 4, but this is one of many situations where he can be useful.
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Lotus Cobra did not change the metagame and neither will Omnath. It may appear in one or 2 decks but that is all. If you could have more then one out at a time it would be much better,
That druid is merely okay.  I'd be pissed to open it in a draft.
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Sorry, but it's necessary when the top 3-5 decks in the meta all run red. Of course it hoses RDDW the worst, but it's also there to deal with Jund, RWU control, and boros.

As for the Quest for the Nihil Stone, I think it could be made into a solid deck. Niche made a great observation that MBC is likely going to turn towards dedicated discard as it's main threat, and that quest is certainly worthy of being an alternate win-con.

As for Omnath, I just see too many possibilities for him to not see some action is a lot of decks. Possibly one of the best topdeck cards in existence. He's like Protean Hydra + Mana Battery wrapped in one.



Agreed on all points.
Lotus Cobra did not change the metagame and neither will Omnath. It may appear in one or 2 decks but that is all. If you could have more then one out at a time it would be much better,



Lotus cobra makes a big difference in every game he sees. He either demands removal or enables the user to generate plays many turns in advance.

Omnath is a creature that really demands a creative application and is quite capable of doing something amazing.
When I first read about Omnath I didn't realize it was legendary and thought it was broken. A creature that permanently pumps itself, and every creature with the same name that you control for green mana. But even without allowing multiple copies on the board at the same time, I see no reason for a deck like Eldrazi Green to avoid it. I also think Eldrazi green will likely play the new 4/5 for GGG.

So what do people think W/G and Bant will play from Worldwake? (aside from the new 2/2 Pro Red in the sideboard and the W/G manland, whatever that turns out to be) If Wilt-Leaf Liege were reprinted, I think that W/G would already be the favorite to take out all popular decks in the format. What anti-discard or anti-Jund cards do you think will be printed in Worldwake?
Lotus Cobra did not change the metagame and neither will Omnath. It may appear in one or 2 decks but that is all. If you could have more then one out at a time it would be much better,



Lotus cobra makes a big difference in every game he sees. He either demands removal or enables the user to generate plays many turns in advance.

Omnath is a creature that really demands a creative application and is quite capable of doing something amazing.



I recently played against a deck built around Lotus Cobra, Rampaging Baloths and Ob Nixilis and it worked really well. A typical start for the deck would be turn 2 Cobra, turn 3 sac-land into Ob Nixilis, turn 4 scapeshift. The deck used Scapeshift, but other than that it was Standard legal. I wonder if that or a similar landfall trigger deck will be viable in standard soon.
Ya it's called Magical Christmas land, and the highlights of the deck are a 12/12 Ob nix on turn 4, a possible turn 4 violent ultimatum, or a turn 5 rampaging baloths with a fully loaded khalni heart encchantment ready to go.

Lotus Cobra + OmNom looks like it's possible to come out as a 5/5 on turn 3, which also gives you the option of USING that mana on turn 4 for who knows what. It's pretty hilarious to have a creature that can prevent you from ever being trule "tapped out".

The other nice part is the fact that he is a 3-drop lightning rod. You think BSA draws hate? Wait till people start getting hit with comet storms once they try to blow him up.

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Tideforce Elemental with Ruin Ghost
looks like it'll be fun to pull out once in a while for some landfall fun; not exactly earth shattering but they could be fun with Ob and the like. I loves me some Momentary Blink fun.
yea, I imediately saw that interaction as well. for draft, at least. tapping creatures, landfall shenanigans. seems pretty good.
www.wizards.com/mtg/images/tcg/products/...

Holy frig...you think it will see play in decks that can play it?
www.wizards.com/mtg/images/tcg/products/...

Holy frig...you think it will see play in decks that can play it?


nope
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Definitely not. Great limited bomb though. Kinda hard not to win with that sucker.

I thought Orb of Insight had only 5 multi-color hits though. I guess they didn't go high enough lol.

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Sorry, but it's necessary when the top 3-5 decks in the meta all run red. Of course it hoses RDDW the worst, but it's also there to deal with Jund, RWU control, and boros.



Agreed on all points.



Firewalker will not be relevant vs. RWU due to the massive amounts of W/U control therein, or in all likelihood, Jund, as most of its threats are B/G, with Pulse snuffing it handily, not even gaining the Firewalker player any life in the process.  There's some possibility that it could negatively affect Boros, but Boros also has Harm's and Path so I don't think it will even slow up a Boros player more than a turn, and the deck has fantastic turn 4-5 alpha strikes anyway, even after a number of its threats have been spent.  If you could point out some flaws in my thinking, I'd be much obliged.  What's the potential fifth deck that gets hosed by this ***hole?  Near as I can tell, it's R&D wagging their junk at players that can't afford Baneslayers and Pulses.
Sorry, but it's necessary when the top 3-5 decks in the meta all run red. Of course it hoses RDDW the worst, but it's also there to deal with Jund, RWU control, and boros.



Agreed on all points.



Firewalker will not be relevant vs. RWU due to the massive amounts of W/U control therein, or in all likelihood, Jund, as most of its threats are B/G, with Pulse snuffing it handily, not even gaining the Firewalker player any life in the process.  There's some possibility that it could negatively affect Boros, but Boros also has Harm's and Path so I don't think it will even slow up a Boros player more than a turn, and the deck has fantastic turn 4-5 alpha strikes anyway, even after a number of its threats have been spent.  If you could point out some flaws in my thinking, I'd be much obliged.  What's the potential fifth deck that gets hosed by this ***hole?  Near as I can tell, it's R&D wagging their junk at players that can't afford Baneslayers and Pulses.



RWU vs. white weenies is a 50/50 matchup, entirely hinged on whether RWU can counter or quake conq pledge. RWU can't handle 6 beaters.

Pulse is the ONLY removal in Jund mainboard that deals with firewalker. It also forces jund to pulse a 2 drop. Yes, it's necessary.

Boros doesn't run harm's , and half of boros' creatures are red, not to mention the burst/bolts.

Fifth potential deck is valakut ramp. The firewalker is literally unkillable by that deck.

Stop trying to argue whether it's necessary. The meta dictates that need, and I'm pretty sure you are just angry RDW has a true hoser. Well, here's some comforting facts - at least it isn't forgetender, and be glad it costs WW, as opposed to costing green, or black, or even blue. White is a splash color right now. Firewalker might make white weenies more prevalent in the meta, which is a good thing for deck diversity.

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Apparently no one in your meta plays Brave the Elements.  They play it in mine.  It sucks Ball.  :<
Sorry, but it's necessary when the top 3-5 decks in the meta all run red. Of course it hoses RDDW the worst, but it's also there to deal with Jund, RWU control, and boros.



Agreed on all points.



Firewalker will not be relevant vs. RWU due to the massive amounts of W/U control therein, or in all likelihood, Jund, as most of its threats are B/G, with Pulse snuffing it handily, not even gaining the Firewalker player any life in the process.  There's some possibility that it could negatively affect Boros, but Boros also has Harm's and Path so I don't think it will even slow up a Boros player more than a turn, and the deck has fantastic turn 4-5 alpha strikes anyway, even after a number of its threats have been spent.  If you could point out some flaws in my thinking, I'd be much obliged.  What's the potential fifth deck that gets hosed by this ***hole?  Near as I can tell, it's R&D wagging their junk at players that can't afford Baneslayers and Pulses.



RWU vs. white weenies is a 50/50 matchup, entirely hinged on whether RWU can counter or quake conq pledge. RWU can't handle 6 beaters.

Pulse is the ONLY removal in Jund mainboard that deals with firewalker. It also forces jund to pulse a 2 drop. Yes, it's necessary.

Boros doesn't run harm's , and half of boros' creatures are red, not to mention the burst/bolts.

Fifth potential deck is valakut ramp. The firewalker is literally unkillable by that deck.

Stop trying to argue whether it's necessary. The meta dictates that need, and I'm pretty sure you are just angry RDW has a true hoser. Well, here's some comforting facts - at least it isn't forgetender, and be glad it costs WW, as opposed to costing green, or black, or even blue. White is a splash color right now. Firewalker might make white weenies more prevalent in the meta, which is a good thing for deck diversity.

Valakut ramp could start playing green removal in the sideboard like Mold Shambler, Acidic Slime and Master of the Wild Hunt... heck I wouldn't mind MotWH main boarded...plus the Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle can still hit it.
OH MY GOD


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If it had shroud, it could warp a format... as is, it can still do some havoc with the right support for a control deck (thinking Bant).

old quotes from the Worldwake talk: Mike Turian: While Mark Rosewater made Tarmogoyf, I made Tarmogoyf what he is today Mark Rosewater: Would we ever reprint Tarmogoyf? Maybe.

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It's too early to tell what changes to the meta there will be.

I imagine people will be playing around with Locus Eldrazi Green, but the War Caller is the new powerhouse there. Also, allies will see a lot of play.

However, I haven't yet seen anything that offers to dent the crown of Jund. Sure, firewalker is good, but Jund will be playing smother and pulse, and leech, so it's got it's early game fine, and can deal with it without much of a problem.

Blue is still waiting for something good, it has Jace, so it's in the right direction, but without decent counterspells, it's hurt.

Vampires will continue to be played. White weenies split off into allies and soldiers.

At the moment, there doesn't seem to be signs of much change.
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It's too early to tell what changes to the meta there will be.

I imagine people will be playing around with Locus Eldrazi Green, but the War Caller is the new powerhouse there. Also, allies will see a lot of play.

However, I haven't yet seen anything that offers to dent the crown of Jund. Sure, firewalker is good, but Jund will be playing smother and pulse, and leech, so it's got it's early game fine, and can deal with it without much of a problem.

Blue is still waiting for something good, it has Jace, so it's in the right direction, but without decent counterspells, it's hurt.

Vampires will continue to be played. White weenies split off into allies and soldiers.

At the moment, there doesn't seem to be signs of much change.



I replied on the Allies thread, beyond being aggro they can board in GSS vs Jund to give it the usual fits.

I agree that we have yet to see a "smoking gun" for blue. I love how White Weenie is essentially going to go to war with itself... soldiers v allies... lol
old quotes from the Worldwake talk: Mike Turian: While Mark Rosewater made Tarmogoyf, I made Tarmogoyf what he is today Mark Rosewater: Would we ever reprint Tarmogoyf? Maybe.

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As a player of G/W/b I will not be using Omnath. He's completely reliant on green mana to be relevant in any way, shape, or form so a deck chugging along on three colors isn't going to get much use out of him.


I'm pretty sure my fellow G/W/b players will confirm this. Or Glux will just come in and post GNARLIQUARY with a size 36 and bold tag because we're both excited about Smother getting reprinted.
Even though such a card has not been spoiled, I'm still hopeful there will be a card that hoses discard and/or Jund. I just had an idea for a card that I think would accomplish this, and still not be too good in general play:

Blissful Dreams - Sorcery - 1WU
Draw 2 cards
If a spell or effect controlled by your opponent causes you to discard this card, draw two cards

There you go, a perfect anti-discard card that is still main-deckable, but neither useless, nor overpowered vs a deck without discard.
www.wizards.com/mtg/images/tcg/products/...

Holy frig...you think it will see play in decks that can play it?



LOL, that's quite the ability. I could see it being used in bant control as a finisher honestly. 

EDIT: I misread the cost before. Now that I realize it costs 7 no I don't think it will see play.
Ahem... we were JUST talking about Lotus Cobra, this could be Knightfall's answer to RWU and Eldrazi, I'm planning on throwing two in my sideboard to test against those...

Also... Incremental Dudes should TOTALLY be the real name of Bestial Menace 
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Kor Firewalker is SO HOT. He is the fire in my pants. I want his firewalking babies.

Oops
75932913 wrote:
57689138 wrote:
I just realized how large a pain in the ass it's going to be to break down regionals like this
but look on the bright side, [b]Ding Dong jund is dead[b], it's not the boogyman anymore XD

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57689138 wrote:
Near Death Experience?
Gideon is not impressed by your triple white, incredibly difficult-to-manlipulate jank card.
Poor Niche
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MaRo keeps stabbing me in the face with cards like Phyrexian Rebirth. It's a black card.. with black art... in a white layer with white costs. Up yours, design team.
Cryptic Command can go munch on a bowl of my nuts
Bant control is going to be amazing. I could totally see Novablast Wurm being played. Attack, then activate Celestial Colonnade and swing for 11 after wiping your opponent's board. So sweet. And I think control and counter magic is just enough where a 7 cmc creature will be playable.
Bant control is going to be amazing. I could totally see Novablast Wurm being played. Attack, then activate Celestial Colonnade and swing for 11 after wiping your opponent's board. So sweet. And I think control and counter magic is just enough where a 7 cmc creature will be playable.



Well you would have already declared attackers by the time you destroy all creatures so you wouldn't be able to activate the land and swing with another attacker. Finest hour however, changes things...
Abyssal Persecutor is insane. It also has great art.
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Abyssal Persecutor is insane. It also has great art.



I can't think of a reason for mono-black not to play Abyssal Persecutor, considering that they already play Gatekeeper of Malakir and Tendrils of Corruption. Perhaps they could play Vampire Aristocrat again as well.
Abyssal Persecutor is insane. It also has great art.



I can't think of a reason for mono-black not to play Abyssal Persecutor, considering that they already play Gatekeeper of Malakir and Tendrils of Corruption. Perhaps they could play Vampire Aristocrat again as well.



It probably will see a lot of play in any aggro/midrange deck with removal. 
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As much as I hate to endorse it before i get my set......Persecutor is fantastic. And it leaves MBC with two viable... and potentially powerful... paths to pursue.

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Haha I was griping in the MBC thread, MBC needed another finisher, BADLY. This is about as perfect as it gets. Between this and smother, I think MBC is curving out incredibly well.

I really can't believe hes a 4-drop. That's just insane in terms of current MBC builds, and the ability to ramp to a turn 3 Persecutor or turn 4 persecutor after using duress.

What bothers me is the fact that Jund has access to this guy. He might not see play, but there's something incredibly scary about bit blast into persecutor, when Jund has -68 solid removal spells maindeck.

I know I can't shut up about this guy, but he's also PERFECT in terms of balance. He's a huge liability to play against a control deck, which is what MBC typically has a field day with. But he's amazing against faster aggro decks, which is what MBC continuously has issues with.

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He's great as long as you have a way to remove him from your board after you deal lethal... being that you can't win the game as long as he's out and all....

LOL, I know a couple ways.

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old quotes from the Worldwake talk: Mike Turian: While Mark Rosewater made Tarmogoyf, I made Tarmogoyf what he is today Mark Rosewater: Would we ever reprint Tarmogoyf? Maybe.

I am Blue/Green


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174 How many of your friendships have lasted more than ten years? Which of your current friendships do you still feel will be important to you ten years from now?
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