Do temporary hit points stack?

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Do temorary hit points stack for any reason?

Never, unless of course whatever is giving you the temps specifically says so (like a Battlerager).

Battlerager no longer stacks temp hp. They were nerfed back in the July Errata. Temp hp NEVER stack. Ever.

Battlerager no longer stacks temp hp. They were nerfed back in the July Errata. Temp hp NEVER stack. Ever.


Battlerager specifically says that you gain your Con mod in temporary hit points on top of any temporary hit points granted by the power, which if you use an Invigorating power, will be your Con mod again.  Sounds like that stacks to me...

Regardless, my statement still stands: temp hp will not stack unless a power says it does.  You'd have to find somewhere where the rulebooks say "temporary hp never stacks even if a power says that it does" (thereby overriding the specific beats general rule).
Mr Crouton has the truth of it.

An example from a recent discussion was a Battlerager fighter trained in Endurance using Crushing Surge: on a hit he gains 2xCon mod in temp hitpoints.  If he misses, he gets 1xCon mod temp hitpoints.

So technically no stacking from round to round, but from multiple sources, to be sure.
71176698 wrote:
I would TPK them so hard, their next characters would come into-game at half health.
www.EveElizabeth.com
Mr Crouton has the truth of it.

An example from a recent discussion was a Battlerager fighter trained in Endurance using Crushing Surge: on a hit he gains 2xCon mod in temp hitpoints.  If he misses, he gets 1xCon mod temp hitpoints.

So technically no stacking from round to round, but from multiple sources, to be sure.


Actually, no stacking from Battlerager. The update says...
Whenever you hit an enemy with a melee or a close attack, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier, plus any temporary hit points normally granted by the power. You gain the hit points only after the attack is resolved. If you use an invigorating fighter attack power and miss every target with it, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier. You gain the hit points only after the attack is resolved.


It's not that you gain some THP (in your pool) and then you also gain more THP added to that. it's you gain (X+Y) THP, i.e. it's 1 addition to your thp pool. I think it is very important to clarify it, as to avoid confusing people that think it's a way to stack THP. It's simply not.

Battlerager specifically says that you gain your Con mod in temporary hit points on top of any temporary hit points granted by the power, which if you use an Invigorating power, will be your Con mod again.  Sounds like that stacks to me...



Nope.  That's a single source that takes two numbers to figure out the final result.  Like the Paladin power Strength From Valour, which gives you "5 temporary hit points for each target hit" -count number of hits, multiply by 5, gain that many temp HP in a single bunch.

Battleragers who hit with an Invigorating power gain (CON+CON) temp HP in a single burst.

And temporary HP never, ever, ever stack, no matter from what source.  When you gain temp HP, you replace your current temp HP total with the HIGHER of the THP you just gained, or the THP you had before.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.

Nope.  That's a single source that takes two numbers to figure out the final result.  Like the Paladin power Strength From Valour, which gives you "5 temporary hit points for each target hit" -count number of hits, multiply by 5, gain that many temp HP in a single bunch.

Battleragers who hit with an Invigorating power gain (CON+CON) temp HP in a single burst.


Strength from Valor is a single power.  That's a single source.  You can't separate it in any way.

Invigorating is a keyword on a power that gives Con mod temp HP.  Source #1
Battlerager is a class feature giving you Con mod temp HP.  Source #2
They stack on top of one another.  They can be separated (Invigorating without Battlerager, Battlerager without invigorating).  I'm slightly appalled at the way you're reading this as a single source just to make a losing argument.  And please don't discuss the minutae of 'stacking' -- I find it pointless if we're going to nitpick on what the term will or will not encompass.


And temporary HP never, ever, ever stack, no matter from what source.  When you gain temp HP, you replace your current temp HP total with the HIGHER of the THP you just gained, or the THP you had before.


So you're telling me that if tomorrow WotC releases a new power that says:
"You gain X temporary hit points. If you currently have temporary hit points, X will stack with that" then somehow general beats specific?
Crab, the point is that it's one new infusion of temp hp that does not stack with any existing temp hp.  There are a number of powers and effects that "stack" temp hit points together before assigning them to the beneficiary (eg Battlerager Vigor, Clarion Call, Strength from Valor).  AFAIK, there is currently no power or effect that stacks incoming temporary hit points with those currently possessed, which is what Lord of Weasels is trying to say.

Strength from Valor is a single power.  That's a single source.  You can't separate it in any way.



Crushing Surge is a single power.  You can't separate it in any way.  And for Battleragers, Invigorating Powers give EXTRA temp HP.

Invigorating is a keyword on a power that gives Con mod temp HP.  Source #1
Battlerager is a class feature giving you Con mod temp HP.  Source #2
They stack on top of one another.  They can be separated (Invigorating without Battlerager, Battlerager without invigorating). 



You realise, your argument is the same as saying that "Invigorating powers give CON temp HP.  Improved Vigor gives bonus temp HP, since you can have one without the other they're separate sources"?


And temporary HP never, ever, ever stack, no matter from what source. 


So you're telling me that if tomorrow WotC releases a new power that says:
"You gain X temporary hit points. If you currently have temporary hit points, X will stack with that" then somehow general beats specific?



Nope.  If, tomorrow, WotC publishes a new power that allows temp HP to stack, I will revise my future statements to say "Temp HP never, ever, ever stack except in this one specific case"

However, as of right now, today, temp HP never stack.  Ever.  From any source.  For any reason.  You never, ever, ever add temp HP from different sources together.

Battleragers get more temp HP than other people from attack powers - they get CON mod more temp HP from all powers than hit, and gain CON temp HP on misses if the missing power is Invigorating.  That doesn't mean they stack temp HP, it means they gain more than other people do. EXACTLY in the same way that Strength From Valour gives more temp HP for every target you hit.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
I think they count as separate sources because the Battlerager gets his +Con mod hitpoints regardless of whether the power hits or misses.  Since Crushing Surge doesn't have an Effect line, the power and the feature are arguably distince sources as far as the Temp HP are concerned.

Is it "stacking"?  For the sake of the terminology, I'm guessing no.  After all, a barbarian in Macetail Rage that hits with Recuperating Strike gets his THP from two sources, and no one minds.
71176698 wrote:
I would TPK them so hard, their next characters would come into-game at half health.
www.EveElizabeth.com
I think the confusion comes from the difference between getting 2xCON TempHP in one lump, as opposed to CON now and CON later.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I think Ive found a loophole. Temp HP are not gained until after an attack is resolved. So what if you it 3 times with a non-invigorating attack? Youre rackin up Temp HP, but you dont have any yet. By the rules as written, you should gain all of those THP at once, once the attack is resolved.

1 Whenever you hit an enemy with a close or melee attack, you gain temp hit points... -errata

2 If you get Temp hit points And you already have some, use the higher value instead of adding them together. -errata

3 You do not gain the Temporary Hit Points (from Battlerager Vigor) until after the attack is resolved. -errata

4 No Invigorating power grants Temporary hit points more than once per turn, even if you hit more than once with the power or use more than one power with the invigorating keyword in a round. martial power 1

Looking at these 4 statements, it would seem that, If you(a battlerager) hit with a NON-invigorating power and you DONT already have temp hit points, you can gain the total temp HP from multiple hits after the attack is resolved.

This has already been errata'd to death, and  BattleRager Vigor is still  a great choice even if you deny this loophole. What really confuses me (because I know CS reps  favor the nerf stick) is, If they wanted their case airtight, why did they poke holes in it?
If they wanted to prohibit this phenomenon they could have done so with a few choice words:

     Whenever you hit (at least one) enemy (one or more times) with a close or melee attack, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Con Mod.

     No (fighter power) grants Temporary hit points more than once per turn...

Personally, I think once the rule writers get stumped they just leave something vague enough that one can argue either way.
I'm not on expert on Fighters or battlerager, but by my reading there is no loophold
You still would only gain the temporary hit points from a single hit, even if you hit more than one enemy. 

Effectively, each hit triggers an effect of "After this attack resolves, gain Con mod Temporary HP".  So say you use a Burst 1 power and hit 5 enemies. Each hit results in you gaining Con mod THP after the attack resolves, and so you gain Con mod THP 5 times, and since it never stacks, you have just Con mod THP.

As a Battlerager, since the THP are not gained until after the attack resolves, if you use a blast 1 power to hit 5 enemies, and each enemy has a triggered interrupt or effect on being hit or damaged, the fact that you do not gain the THP until after your attack is resolved means that you don't get to effectively reduce the damage from each of their hits by your THP value.

The approximate sequence of events is:
  Hit 1 -> triggered action
  Hit 2 -> triggered action
  Hit 3 -> triggered action
  Hit 4 -> triggered action
  Hit 5 -> triggered action
 ->  Attack resolved - Gain Con mod THP

and not
  Hit 1 -> Gain Con mod THP -> triggered action
  Hit 2 -> Gain con mod THP -> triggered action ...
 or
   Hit 1  -> triggered action -> Gain Con mod THP
   Hit 2  -> triggered action -> Gain Con mod THP
 
   
  Also, they don't  say "No (fighter power) grants Temporary hit points more than once per turn" instead of "No invigorating power..." because the restriction specifically applies to the Invigorating keyword only and the restriction does not apply to Battlerager. 
  The point is that if you gain temporary HP from an invigorating power, then a triggered attack or other effect causes you damage to eliminate the gained temporary HP, and then hit again with the same power or you use an action point to make another invigorating attack, the second attack will not give you temporary HP for invigorating. 
   On the other hand, if you're a Battlerager, gain THP from hitting an enemy, then you take damage, and you then make use an action point for another attack (or a minor action attack) which hits, the second attack will give you THP again, because the sequence events would be:

Attack/Hit -> Gain Temp HP -> Take damage (trap/oppurtunity attack/ triggered attack on movement, etc)-> Second attack/hit -> Gain Temp HP
 
  
 "Stacking" in this context means adding new THP to THP you already have. The fact is THP Do stack for a BattleRager: adding CON MOD to CON MOD (when a rager hits with an invigorating power) is the most blatant stacking I can think of (adding the same bonus to itself).  So in the statement  "THP never stack", then "adding THP values together before the character gets them" is Not stacking
 
  The sequence of events you describe as correct does not represent the statement "Whenever you hit an enemy with a close or melee attack, you gain temp hit points" It describes "Gain con mod temp hit points subsequent to an attack power that hits at least once".  Originally the THP were meant to stack indefinitely on Ragers. After the designers saw how powerful that was they added limitations. 
 
  The authors intention behind using specific language is not for anyone else to decide. For example, you theorize that the delayed aquisition was to prevent the rager from soaking damage mid-turn, while the errata states the change was made to clarify that the rager should not get a bonus to damage(for having THP) on the same attack that grants the THP.

So the real problem here is the word "attack".  Could mean attack roll or attack power. Considering how clear the wording is on most issues, I can only guess the errata staff was not thinking about multi hit attacks. Its seems to me that either
1 I get the THP after every successful attack roll, and the daamage bonus on the secondary attack but THP dont add up because they were gained at different times.
2 I get the sum for all the hits at the end of the attack power, and they do add up because they are gained at the same time.
Or 3 I should ignore the errata because the first thing it says is "Whenever you hit... gain thp" while other sources say dont gain thp whenever you hit, just sometimes.

Honestly im not even gonna bring this up to my DM. I dont have a burst attack, I just have a couple powers that could hit 2 or 3 times.

Now the case of multiple interrupters on a burst attack - thats a whole new thread. I think an offensive Interrupt would trigger from the attack and not the hit or the damage, otherwise you could kill the guy who just hit you before he hit you. Or on a burst, you could kill the guy who just hit everyone before he hit anyone.
1 is correct. You gain it after the resolution of each attack roll. It also just makes sense given the "Miss all" condition built-in and the fact the FAQ (quoted below) refers to resolving after the attack. The FAQ is in response to people who were trying to gain the THP after the hit but before the damage roll, so it'd be an "always on" bonus.

At what point during an attack does a Battlerager fighter gain temporary hit points for attacking with a fighter and/or invigorating power?
The Battlerager Vigor bonus temporary hit points are granted once the attack has been resolved.
 "Stacking" in this context means adding new THP to THP you already have. The fact is THP Do stack for a BattleRager: adding CON MOD to CON MOD (when a rager hits with an invigorating power) is the most blatant stacking I can think of (adding the same bonus to itself).  So in the statement  "THP never stack", then "adding THP values together before the character gets them" is Not stacking



A Battlerager hitting with an invigorating power is not stacking THP.
Instead the Battlerager is getting a single instance of THP equal to the amount normally granted by an invigorating power (normally his con mod) + a bonus equal to his con mod for being a battlerager.

  It is a single instance of THP, not two instances being stacked.