[Archetype] Junk/Doran

50 posts / 0 new
Last post
www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31191 - 1st place list by Calcano

--- Doran by gamegeek2 ---

4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Treetop Village
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Forest

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Gaddock Teeg/Qasali Pridemage
3 Doran, the Siege Tower

4 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
4 Putrefy
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Chrome Mox

--- Sideboard ---
4 Meddling Mage
4 Duress
3 Baneslayer Angel
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Other Card

Oran Rief? Since combined with finks, it's pretty much pims o'clock.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
Sounds spicy. However, do you recommend MD Finks in a paper meta (as opposed to online, where burn is huge)? I currently play Knight of the Reliquary in the other 3-drop slot (you know, the one that doesn't define the deck), and it seems solid to me. Would you recommend Finks instead, or should I try a split? After all, having multiple O-R,tV cramps your tempo, but Knight lets you run it as a singleton along with Treetop Village, Ghost Quarter and whatnot. I'm thinking a 3-3-3 split; how does that sound? Having a good selection of 3-drops seems nice, especially since it helps me get mileage out of my Hierarchs.

Having another way to win the Goyf fight sounds good too.
Sounds spicy. However, do you recommend MD Finks in a paper meta (as opposed to online, where burn is huge)? I currently play Knight of the Reliquary in the other 3-drop slot (you know, the one that doesn't define the deck), and it seems solid to me. Would you recommend Finks instead, or should I try a split? After all, having multiple O-R,tV cramps your tempo, but Knight lets you run it as a singleton along with Treetop Village, Ghost Quarter and whatnot. I'm thinking a 3-3-3 split; how does that sound? Having a good selection of 3-drops seems nice, especially since it helps me get mileage out of my Hierarchs.

Having another way to win the Goyf fight sounds good too.


KotR is arguably the best creature in Extended right now; you're are right in wanting to play it.  Knight is pretty much better than Finks.
I think the reason for finks is for lifegain to make up for Bob and Thoughtseize.

I would want some Knights, though, as well as sideboarded Baneslayers.
I'm still a huge fan of gifts in a deck like this. It's been working wonders for me so far.
Here's my current take on Doran:

My little Doran
27 Creatures:
4*Noble Hierarch
4*Dark Confidant
4*Quasali Pridemage
4*Tarmogoyf
4*Knight of the Reliquary
3*Doran, the Siege Tower
4*Kitchen Finks

11 Other spells:
4*Path to Exile
2*Umezawa's Jitte
3*Maelstrom Pulse
2*Profane Command

22 Lands:
4*Marsh Flats
4*Verdant Catacombs
1*Ghost Quarter
2*Treetop Village
1*Overgrown Tomb
2*Temple Garden
1*Godless Shrine
2*Forest
1*Plain
1*Swamp
1*Murmuring Bosk
1*Fetid Heath
1*Oran-Rief, the Vastwood

Sideboard:
2*Gaddock Teeg
3*Baneslayer Angel
4*Duress
6*Various dredge hate

I'm trying to keep it as aggressive as possible, with some removal and disruption to keep the opposition honest. Like so many others, I'm pretty sure I can safely cut the dredge hate; I don't know anyone around here who seem likely to play it. Which is a pretty good reason to keep it in. After all, someone else is bound to think the same thing and actually have the cards to build the stupid deck too. Still, I think Affinity is more likely, so I'm considering some hate for that as well. I just need to figure out the most practical cards for the job.
If you want it to be aggressive, what's with all the 3-drops? If you want to go with all those, I think 2 Chrome Mox are called for.
I'm still a huge fan of gifts in a deck like this. It's been working wonders for me so far.


Me too, if you have the time it's basically gg if it resolves.  You get the loam package and it's over.  Or just a million beaters.
NO ONE EXPECTS THE QUAGSIRE INSURRECTION! My SUPER AWESOME GregtheEgg lightning bolt: http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm284/fengairen2/Scan.png pmppostchandraversion.png
I'm still a huge fan of gifts in a deck like this. It's been working wonders for me so far.


That seems like a different deck to me.  Doran and Gifts in the same deck doesn't make much sense.  That being said, Gifts Rock is really good.
Are you kidding? Gifts Rock is a shadow of its former self. Without Genesis, you're forced to go with Emeria. Plus, there's no Deed or Therapy.

Unless, of course, you can show me a good Gifts Rock list.
Are you kidding? Gifts Rock is a shadow of its former self. Without Genesis, you're forced to go with Emeria. Plus, there's no Deed or Therapy.

Unless, of course, you can show me a good Gifts Rock list.


Courtesy of Enigmata:

// Lands
    1 [ALA] Forest (3)
    3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
    2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    1 [DIS] Breeding Pool
    2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    1 [GP] Godless Shrine
    2 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
    1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
    1 [BD] Swamp (1)
    1 [MR] Plains (1)
    1 [7E] Island (2)
    2 [RAV] Temple Garden
    1 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
    1 [DIS] Ghost Quarter
    1 [MR] Ancient Den
    1 [HOP] Vault of Whispers
    1 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
    4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
    3 [FD] Eternal Witness
    3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
    2 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
    3 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
    3 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
    1 [ZEN] Day of Judgment
    1 [EVE] Worm Harvest
    4 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
    1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
    1 [A] Wrath of God
    1 [PLC] Damnation
    1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    2 [CFX] Path to Exile
    2 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
    1 [10E] Pithing Needle
    4 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge

There's clearly some tweaking that should be done, but the deck has been testing really well.
Now THAT is a deck I can get behind. I love Gifts Rock.

That deck could use the Thopter combo.
Now THAT is a deck I can get behind. I love Gifts Rock.

That deck could use the Thopter combo.


It really is a great deck.  Check out the thread in Deck Help.
It sure looks good, but I really don't have the cards to play it so I'll stick to the aggro variant for now. Which, by the way, gets a pretty good addition with Loam Lion (amazingly stupid name though). Any idea what to take out for it? I'm rather concerned about maintaining the balance between early aggression, disruptive capability, late staying power and reach.
Meh, enigmata's list can't go loam package.  You want to have access to loam, raven's crime, and worm harvest IMO.
NO ONE EXPECTS THE QUAGSIRE INSURRECTION! My SUPER AWESOME GregtheEgg lightning bolt: http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm284/fengairen2/Scan.png pmppostchandraversion.png
// Lands
    1 [ALA] Forest (3)
    3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
    2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    1 [DIS] Breeding Pool
    2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    1 [GP] Godless Shrine
    2 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
    1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
    1 [BD] Swamp (1)
    1 [MR] Plains (1)
    1 [7E] Island (2)
    2 [RAV] Temple Garden
    1 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
    1 [DIS] Ghost Quarter
    1 [MR] Seat of the Synod
    1 [MR] Ancient Den
    1 [HOP] Vault of Whispers

// Creatures
    4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
    3 [FD] Eternal Witness
    3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
    2 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
    3 [SHM] Kitchen Finks

// Spells
    1 [ZEN] Day of Judgment
    1 [EVE] Worm Harvest
    4 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
    1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
    1 [A] Wrath of God
    1 [PLC] Damnation
    1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    2 [CFX] Path to Exile
    2 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
    1 [10E] Pithing Needle
    4 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
    1 [EVE] Raven's Crime
    1 [ARB] Thopter Foundry
    1 [FUT] Sword of the Meek
57860688 wrote:
121183109 wrote:
57074928 wrote:
So when UR Delver came out to win a GP, did Christian Calcano email/call you and thank you personally, or was there just a mutual understanding?
Legitimately laughed at this...haha
No kidding. +1 internets for a hidden gem in the standard deck help.
I've been playing Gifts Rock in our extended tournament, and I'm undefeated with it so far. This is what I'm playing:

// Lands
    1 [MR] Plains (1)
    2 [DIS] Breeding Pool
    1 [GP] Godless Shrine
    2 [DIS] Hallowed Fountain
    4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
    1 [BD] Swamp (1)
    1 [ALA] Forest (3)
    2 [RAV] Temple Garden
    1 [7E] Island (2)
    2 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
    1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
    1 [RAV] Watery Grave

// Creatures
    2 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
    4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
    1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
    3 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
    3 [FD] Eternal Witness
    3 [RAV] Dark Confidant
    1 [LRW] Doran, the Siege Tower

// Spells
    2 [M10] Garruk Wildspeaker
    3 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
    3 [V09] Gifts Ungiven
    1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
    1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
    3 [ARE] Duress
    2 [CFX] Path to Exile
    1 [A] Wrath of God
    1 [PLC] Damnation
    2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    1 [EVE] Raven's Crime
    1 [EVE] Worm Harvest

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ARE] Duress
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 2 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip

The KoR toolbox has proven to be quite quite I've found. Being able to tutor for Bokuja Bog/Sejiri Steppe/Oran Rief/Ghost quarter, gives this deck a lot of power. It's more of rthe Junk version, rather than the gifts though.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
Here's what I'll be playtesting next:
Show
My little Doran
27 Creatures:
4*Loam Lion
4*Dark Confidant
4*Quasali Pridemage
4*Tarmogoyf
4*Knight of the Reliquary
3*Doran, the Siege Tower
4*Kitchen Finks

11 Other spells:
4*Path to Exile
2*Umezawa's Jitte
3*Maelstrom Pulse
2*Profane Command

22 Lands:
4*Marsh Flats
4*Verdant Catacombs
1*Ghost Quarter
2*Treetop Village
1*Overgrown Tomb
2*Temple Garden
1*Godless Shrine
2*Forest
1*Plain
1*Swamp
1*Murmuring Bosk
1*Bojuka Bog
1*Oran-Rief, the Vastwood

Sideboard:
2*Gaddock Teeg
3*Baneslayer Angel
4*Duress
3*Extirpate
1*Thoughtseize
2*Tormod's Crypt


Since I moved Baneslayer to the sideboard, I decided to swich Hierarchs out for Loam Lions in order to make the deck more aggressive. I might reduce some of the three-drops as well, since they get a bit clunkier without Hierarch. I might even cut the baneslayers from the board entirely; if I do I'll probably add Smother instead to help me with the somewhat dodgy Zoo matchup.

Right now I'm considering a blue splash, mostly for Bant Charm. It's one of the few cards that deal with both Marit Lage and Thopter Foundry, and it dodges both Spell Snare and Chalice of the Void (unless someone bothers to pay 6 for it). Blue also allows me to play Meddling Mage in the board, which might be handy.

I'm also considering a Raven's Crime/Life from the Loam/Worm Harvest package, but I'm not sure if it's worth making room for, especially when I'm not running Gifts. If Faeries become more popular, I might try it along with Darkblast.
I tried adding Bant Charm, replacing a forest with Hallowed Fountain and Verdant Catacombs with Misty Rainforests, but I wasn't really pleased with the result. It may require more playtesting, but the mana got surprisingly clunky, so I returned to the above list for now. I may try it with Watery Grave instead, since it works better with my current fetchlands, but for now the blue splash stays on the drawing board.

Another consideration is the rise of Faeries and Elves; I'm leaning more and more towards Darkblast as a possible inclusion now, even maindeck. And with it, it seems natural to consider the loam/retrace package. Has anyone tried this? What should I take out to make room?
I've been liking how this deck plays. Any time Reveilark sticks he saves me from unwinnable situations. Plus birds allows me to stall agains the 20/20.  Sword of Light and shadow screws over so many decks.

2    Treetop Village
1    Dark Depths
1    Murmuring Bosk
4    Verdant Catacombs
3    Marsh Flats
1    Plains
1    Forest
2    Swamp
1    Godless Shrine
1    Temple Garden
2    Overgrown Tomb
1    Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4    Tarmogoyf
2    Vampire Hexmage
2    Stoneforge Mystic
3    Knight of the Reliquary
3    Doran, the Siege Tower
4    Birds of Paradise
2    Reveillark

4    Path to Exile
2    Chrome Mox
3    Thoughtseize
1    Umezawa's Jitte
3    Maelstrom Pulse
1    Sword of Light and Shadow
1    Sword of Fire and Ice
3    Phyrexian Arena
2    Duress
Okay, I may be nuts here, but as long as I'm playing with stoneforge mystic, what do you guys think of a Ensouled Scimitar as a fetchable Chimeric idol that can double as a dragon when Doran is on the field?
I could see it as a tech one of being ablue to either gives a creatures 5 more power or make a 5 power creature is pretty good.
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal
89522235 wrote:
niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK! "ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day..." "MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I've been toying around with a similiar list and have considered using Glittering Wish as sideboard tech. Any thoughts on that?
That, of course, depends on what your sideboard looks like; the idea seems sound enough to me. I think it fits better in a Gifts build, though; Gifting for a Wish is always a bucket of fun, since it's such a wild card. A late game pile of Action, Action, Witness and Wish will often gets you action, since it will seem safer than giving you the Wish. Also, it allows you to play expensive bombs (like, I dunno, Simic Sky Swallower, Teneb the Harvester or something equally silly) without them ever being dead in your hand (or you being dead if Bob reveals it). Having something awesome to close out stalled games with seems like a good way to take advantage of Wish.
Here is my current mid-range Rock home brew. I call it Muscle Rock because all of the creatures are absolute tanks except for Witness (and he can always revive a larger friend). Anyway, here is the list:

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Miren, the Moaning Well

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
3 Eternal Witness
3 Abyssal persecutor

4 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
3 Extirpate
4 Path to Exile
1 Condemn
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Crime/Punishment

sb:
2 Duress
1 Extirpate
2 Profane Command
2 Condemn
4 Deathmark
4 Rest for the Weary

Disclaimer: I don't pretend that this deck is the be all and end all. I don't think there is such a thing in the Extended environment. No one deck is best. But if you're like me and predisposed to BGw decks, then you might want to try this out. It has no auto-lose matchups, but then it has no auto-win matchups either (although you might have trouble losing to Bant). I won't deny that some combo decks are pretty bad and it lives in terror of a certain 3cc red enchantment whose initials are BM, but every deck has its weaknesses.

Claimer: I've run this in one PTQ, and I took 10th out of approximately 180 players. I'm not that spectacular a player, so some of that must be the deck. Still, I'll grant that this is statistically insignificant.

Notes:
4x Rest for the Weary is a MUST for the board. This deck is hyper-sensitive to being burned out. Game 1 against RDW and the more crimson Zoo decks is tough. Game 2&3 against Zoo should more than make up for it. RDW is tough if they run Blood Moon.

Malestrom over Putrefy. I was torn, but ultimately this is a tap-out deck. Get used to and comfortable with that fact. The extra versatility served me very well at the PTQ.

Yes, I know condemn isn't great. I was expecting a lot of Thopter Depths, and 20/20 fliers are a bit of a problem for this deck. I'm still looking for a better card for that slot, just haven't found it yet.

Hexmage-Depths may be bad, but Thopter-Sword combo is a joke when you run 3x Extirpate and 6x artifact destruction in the main.

Stirring Wildwood was way better than I expected. In fact the only changes to the deck above from the one I played is that I had 1 Treetop Village and 1 Seriji Steppe, which I swapped for a second Forest and a second Stirring Wildwood.

While not particularly slow, neither is this deck fast. A lot of games go the attrition route, and while that is generally favorable, it also means that you don't have a lot of time between rounds. My one draw was not because either of us played slowly. We just didn't have time to finish game 3 (although I was literally one turn from killing him).

I'll be running this again next weekend. Wish me luck!
Good luck!

I've been working on my aggressive build, trying to figure out the local meta in the process; I haven't seen any signs of Dredge, but at least one player intends to play Affinity. As a result, I've decided to add  two Katakis and rely on Extirpate as my primary anti-Dredge tool. Also, the success of Elves and Brozek landfall (and to a lesser degree, faeries) has prompted me to add in some Darkblasts. It's handy against Confidants and Hexmages as well. I might actually maindeck it.

Naturally, I expect a bunch of Zoo decks, at least one thopter depths, one Glittering Rock and probably some Brozek Boros, in addition to the aforementioned Affinity. In addition, someone's bound to try Scapeshift or one of the cascade combo decks, as well as some random stuff like mono-red burn.

I also caved in and replaced both Profane Commands and one Pulse with Smother, a move that I'm still not sure about, but it seems right. The Duress and Thoughtseize numbers in the side might get switched, since a friend of mine offered to lend me the 'seizes that I traded him for the jittes.

My little Doran
27 Creatures:
4*Loam Lion
4*Dark Confidant
4*Quasali Pridemage
4*Tarmogoyf
4*Knight of the Reliquary
3*Doran, the Siege Tower
4*Kitchen Finks

11 Other spells:
4*Path to Exile
2*Umezawa's Jitte
2*Maelstrom Pulse
3*Smother

22 Lands:
4*Marsh Flats
4*Verdant Catacombs
1*Ghost Quarter
2*Treetop Village
1*Overgrown Tomb
2*Temple Garden
1*Godless Shrine
2*Forest
1*Plain
1*Swamp
1*Murmuring Bosk
1*Bojuka Bog
1*Oran-Rief, the Vastwood

Sideboard:
2*Gaddock Teeg
3*Darkblast
4*Duress
3*Extirpate
1*Thoughtseize
2*Kataki, War's Wage


I'm still considering a blue splash, but I've done almost all my testing with plain Doran colors, and I don't think I'll have time to figure out the necessary revisions and acquire all the cards in time for the PTQ, so I'll probably stick with what I know.

For an even more aggressive build, I might add back the Steppe lynxes that I tried at one point, but I'm quite happy with the current mix of creatures.

I might try Stirring Wildwood, since it improves both my mana stability and my threat density, but I really like the trample on Treetop Village, and I don't want too many tapped lands. Should I replace one of my utility lands, or let the Wildwood be?

Thoughts?

I became a big fan of Stirring Wildwood last weekend, but my build is definitely slower and runs more lands. So maybe Treetop is better in a more immediately aggro build like yours. Still, I would definitely recommend Wildwood over the Vastwood. My experience with Oran-Rief was that it just wasn't good enough to be worth a tapped land. Mana fixing and the ability to block faeries , on the other hand, is sufficient justification.

Steppe Lynx definitely does not feel right for this deck. If you're going to go that route, you might as well just play zoo, I think.

My other note is that I think you'll miss not having Thoughtseize in the main. I tried playing without them the first week and just got hosed by combo decks. You need some disruption. Also, they make an early Tarmogoyf much better.

I became a big fan of Stirring Wildwood last weekend, but my build is definitely slower and runs more lands. So maybe Treetop is better in a more immediately aggro build like yours. Still, I would definitely recommend Wildwood over the Vastwood. My experience with Oran-Rief was that it just wasn't good enough to be worth a tapped land. Mana fixing and the ability to block faeries , on the other hand, is sufficient justification.


Steppe Lynx definitely does not feel right for this deck. If you're going to go that route, you might as well just play zoo, I think.

My other note is that I think you'll miss not having Thoughtseize in the main. I tried playing without them the first week and just got hosed by combo decks. You need some disruption. Also, they make an early Tarmogoyf much better.



Nice feedback - thanks!


While I'm not very likely to play Lynx, I feel that my build is pretty close to a zoo deck, with disruption instead of burn. So a Lynx wouldn't really be out of place. I started with MD Duress (which could easily be borrowed Thoughtseizes), but cut it after a while, since I expect Zoo to be the most popular deck by far, and would rather have more creatures and proper removal. So basically I'm pre-siding against aggro. I might change my mind, though - I'm just worried about accumulated life loss from lands, Bob and 'Seize, not to mention anything my opponent just might do.

I see your point about Wildwood vs. Vastwood, but again, my meta expectations make me lean towards my current plan. Vs. zoo, Vastwood helps me make my creatures bigger, which is critical. Also, it allows me to keep Kitchen Finks alive until they burn a Path or two other spells on it, giving me more lifegain and a source of card advantage that gains me life rather than costing me. So far, testing hasn't indicated that my number of taplands is problematic, so I'm hesitant to change something I like. It's still a good point, tough, so I'll keep it in mind.
Has anyone ran Mind Shatter with Lotus cobras? Turn 3 you can do a lot of damage to someone's hand.
Epic Win #1
Enemy Resolves - Jace, Gideon, 2x KotR, Baneslayer, Eldrazi Conscription - I win with Oracle of Mul Daya, 2x KotR, and 2x Emeria Angel
Epic Win #2
Turn 9 I beat an extended deck and draw my second land
Epic Win #3
I find a way to win after having Emrakul hard cast twice
My Current Build
Absolutely Ridiculous ----------------------- 23 Lands ---------- 3x Forest 2x Plains 2x Swamp 2x Island 4x Verdant Catacombs 3x Misty Rainforest 2x Terramorphic Expanse 2x Sejiri Steppe 2x Marsh Flats 1x Stirring Wildwood 27 Creatures -------------- 4x Birds of Paradise 3x Noble Hierarch 4x Lotus Cobra 3x Tidehollow Sculler 4x Knight of the Reliquary 3x Master of the Wild Hunt 3x Thornling 3x Baneslayer 11 Other Spells ------------------ 4x Maelstrom Pulse 3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor 4x Mind Shatter Sideboard ----------- 3x Pithing Needle 3x Celsetial Purge 3x Negate 3x Royal Assassin 3x Dauntless Escort
Has anyone ran Mind Shatter with Lotus cobras? Turn 3 you can do a lot of damage to someone's hand.


Eh.  There's not a whole lot else to ramp into in this deck, which means you have to run 3-4 copies of Mind Shatter, which, along with Lotus Cobra, gives you 6-8 cards that are bad unless you can draw the other piece.
Really guys? No discussion of this deck since the changes to extended were announced?

I was a die-hard Doran Rock player when the deck was in standard, and looking at what will be around come July 1, I feel this deck is in prime position to dominate in the format.

Lets look for a moment at the current big-boys in the metagame:

Hypergenesis: gone. Hypergenesis is now banned in extended.

Thopter/Depths: gone. Dark Depths rotates out with Coldsnap July 1. The primary win-con of the deck is gone.

Zoo: The manabase is gone, as are many other key cards. Goyf is gone in a few months, so the deck is essentially dead now.

All-in Red: mana rituals aside from Desparate Ritual are gone, so the deck is gone.

Gifts decks: Gifts Ungiven is gone, so its dead.


Here's the bad-boys that look to still be lurking around:
Fae: Fae ruled standard for two years. Even when 5cc and Jund were around, Fae was still a consistent top 8 threat. This deck loses Jitte, Repeal, and Spell Snare, but considering it never needed those in standard and still has access to Bitterblossom and Cryptic Commandwell as the ever-popular Mistbind Clique. Oh, did I mention they can now play Jace 2.0?

5 color Cruel Control: this deck never needed the shockland manabase, and Reflecting Pool is still around. It still has its namesake card, and the powerful Cryptic Command. This deck will be around, mark my words.

Kithkin/Fish: I group these two together because they are both essentially weenie aggro decks. Fish lost access to Spell Snare and Mana Leak, but considering that they still have Path and now have access to Spreading Seas, i don't think it will be an issue. They also have deprive and other counters if they need it, primarily Negate to avoid board-wipe. Kithkin will likely look like it did in standard, except for possibly the addition of Elspeth and/or Gideon.

The Current Standard Big 5: Jund, Vengevine Naya, Next Level Bant, UW Control, Superpals. Face it, they don't lose anything and have access to some older cards they might like to have. These will all be around in some capacity.

RDW: This deck has been around in some incarnation practically since Magic was created. It will be around, in what form is unknown, but it will be around.

My thoughts on the Metagame:

Fae has always been a plus-matchup for Doran. We have Cloudthresher to wipe the skys, Great Sable Stag that can't be countered and that they can't block, Pulse/Thoughtseize to deal with Bitterblossom, and the ability to have what is basically a 5/5 down turn 2. Jace 2.0 adds a new threat to their deck, but we have access to answers. 5cc, i found anyway, to also be a better than 50-50 matchup. Gaddock Teeg absolutely wrecks that deck, and they play a slow deck. If you can simply slow them down with a couple thoughtseize and get some early pressure, the match is very winnable (esp. if you run Wilt Leaf Liege and can drop three to the battlefield when they cast Cruel Ultimatum. 18 to the dome anyone?)

Kithkin and Fish are slightly rougher matchups due to the speed of the decks, but they are roughly 50-50. My only problem with Kithkin was if they sided in Stillmoon Cavalier, meaning i had no answer, but that's what DoJ in the side is for or what you take away with Thoughtseize. Their creatures aren't that big so if you keep their Cenn's off the board and blow up any Honor of the Pure you see the game should be ours. Fish is a more annoying matchup due to their access to countermagic, but its no less winnable. Dropping a Doran early means that they are immediately on the defensive, and there are several merfolk (silvergill adept and sejeri merfolk) that are worse with doran on the field. as long as you hold removal for their lords and are smart with your fetches, this game should be ours.

I don't know how the matchups with the current Standard big-5 will work out, considering i never got to play against them, but I'd imagine that Jund will be somewhere close to a 50-50 since BBE becomes a 2/2 and we have plenty of answers to their win-cons. NLB and Vengevine Naya can be de-railed by pathing Vengevines, and with our disruption the matches will be interesting.

I'm out of time for now, so i'll post my thoughts on the evolution of the deck later tonight.
Evolution of Doran Rock:
Since Doran rotated out of Standard with the arrival of the Zendikar block, several new cards have made their way onto the scene and into consideration for your builds.

Oran-rief, the Vastwood: This ZEN rare land should be at least a 1-of in any new Doran list, if not a 2-of. It has insane synergy with Kitchen Finks. Essentially, Finks becomes a recurring wall that gains you two life every time it comes back. Oran-rief adds a +1/+1 counter to finks, canceling out the -1/-1 counter from persist. this means it has no -1/-1 counters when it leaves play, and keeps coming back. Not to mention it puts Doran out of range of the new cmc2 5 damage instant burn spell.

Sejeri Steppe / Bojuka Bog: These WWK common lands each offer a unique ability that if you run Knight of the Reliquary you shouldn't pass up. Steppe is pretty much an auto include in any deck running KotR, and Bog isn't bad if you have a lot of graveyard decks running around. Steppe can protect a Doran or whatever creature you have that needs protection, and bog eliminates graveyard shennanigans.

Stoneforge Mystic: The WWK two-drop was a cornerstone card in Boss Naya, and she fits in extremely well here too. One of the primary reasons to avoid equipment aside from Jitte in previous builds was because you had to run 4 to find it with any sort of consistency. the Mystic lets you fetch out the equipment you need at the time you need it, meaning if you need a Basilisk Collar over a Behemoth Sledge you can find it. Plus, with the Siege Tower out she becomes a stable 2/2 body.

Basilisk Collar: Some previous incarnations ran Loxodon Warhammer or Sledge, but Basalisk Collar grants deathtouch and lifelink. That can be huge. Deathtouch forces opponents to alter their attacking/blocking decisions, esp. if you have a first strike creature on the field. The Lifelink also helps to heal from Thoughtseize and fetches.

Vengevine: I'm still torn on this guy. The CA generated by his recursion is amazing, but Doran (and Junk) are both midrange decks that don't have a ton of creatures in the 1-2 slot. If you modify the build to a creature-heavy build with minimal disruption and removal, he could be a house.

Abyssal Persecutor: This guy is a house. A 6/6 flying trample for 4? Yes please. Yeah, you have to get rid of him to win, but considering the fact the deck is removal there shouldn't be a huge issue here. He tramples over Fae tokens for 5 and forces gangblocks to save a jace. That pressure alone means he has a shot at the 4 slot.

Realms Uncharted, Explore: Both are great cards for a deck that runs two non-ally mana pairs. Realms lets you find your lands, and explore lets you play an additional land and cantrip. Realms also thins your deck by 4 cards, somthing that shouldn't be overlooked in a metagame where consistency is key.

Kor Firewalker: He's proven to be a house in standard against RDW and Devastating Red. He's decent against Jund as well, and considering the removal pool of 5cc, he may be a good choice for SB.

Wall of Omens: Builds that lean more towards a control game may look to include the Rise uncommon. Its in a large number of standard decks right now, and its ability to soak up early aggro with its 4 toughness is not to be overlooked.

Mind Sludge: At least while TS block is in extended, this card can be a house when paired with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Take their entire hand for 5 mana. this can wreck control decks.

Momentous Fall: While it has yet to really find a home in standard, the fact it is green and has a card draw effect must NOT be overlooked. esp. with Doran, there's nothing to complain about if you only draw a card or two but gain 5-7 life for four mana. It can help avoid removal and provide a means for recursion. Can be useful if you have a Putrid Leech on field and they attempt to kill it (pump, MF, draw 4 gain 2).

Consuming Vapors: This card is our answer to walls like Wall of Denial or shroud creatures. Combining life gain with sacrifice removal is great. This is a way to deal with Stag, White Knight, Stilmoon Cavalier, and other nasty pro-us creatures. Its fun to play one when the only creature your opponent has is an Inkwell Leviathan. Didn't happen with this deck, but it was hilarious.

Malakir Bloodwitch: This is the anti-baneslayer/anti-FOD card. the bloodwitch can block both all day long, and is immune to Path and Oring. You can force some bad DoJ with one of these on the field, and that works to our advantage.

Next up will be a first draft decklist...whenever things get less crazy here
Fea>Doran deck will never make more then a tier 2 showing simply because it has to devote so many slots against control decks leaving little space to stop the amazingly fast agro decks you can expect.

Really if you want to play rock play Jund cascade is just better CA and gives you red which is superior to white in a deck like this.
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal
89522235 wrote:
niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK! "ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day..." "MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Doran is not a tier-1 deck, you're right. It never was. What it was, however, was extremely consistent and really destroyed Fae decks with regularity. Fae has a very hard time dealing with a 5/5 on turn 2. Most of their removal can't touch Doran, and Doran is the reason that they sideboarded Deathmark and why some splashed into white for path. Doran is also a good choice in an uncertain metagame because of its consistency. This deck deals very well with rogue decks.
So does anyone have any good, updated lists?  I'm hoping to use this for new extended (without TS).

4 Noble Hierarch/Birds of Paradise
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Dark Tutelage
3 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
3 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Smother
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Behemoth Sledge

2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Sunpetal Grove
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Forest
3 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Murmuring Bosk
2 Oren Rief, the Vastwood
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Seijiri Steppe

Sideboard:

3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Great Stable Stag
3 Kor Firewalker
3 Vampire Hexmage (Oblivion Ring???)



Thoughts?  Wide Variety of spell-like lands for fetching with KotR, basic Stoneforge package, good amount of removal, little disruption, Dark Tutelage for constant fuel, and a smattering of solid creatures.  I'm concerned with it not having a big house 2 drop like Goyf, but the mana base is too shaky to support Nantuko Shade.  I'd also love Wall of Omens, but I don't know how to fit it nor do I know if it even fits.
I am of the opinion that every deck should always run Luminarch Ascension. "How do I help my deck against deck X?" Luminarch Ascension. ^_^
I'm thinking about a Grave Scrabbler/Fauna Shaman package for this deck. Is this engine worth the deck slots?
I'm thinking about a Grave Scrabbler/Fauna Shaman package for this deck. Is this engine worth the deck slots?


I don't think that a deck built arounds consistency wants to devote slots to a slow, fragile card advantage engine.  Fauna Shaman certainly has potential, but it won't live up to it here.
// Lands
    2 [WWK] Sejiri Steppe
    2 [WWK] Stirring Wildwood
    2 [ZEN] Swamp
    2 [MOR] Murmuring Bosk
    2 [ZEN] Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
    2 [M10] Sunpetal Grove
    2 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
    2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    2 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
    2 [ZEN] Forest
    2 [ZEN] Plains

// Creatures
    4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
    3 [FNM] Kitchen Finks
    3 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
    3 [LRW] Doran, the Siege Tower
    2 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
    3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
    4 [ROE] Wall of Omens
    3 [ALA] Tidehollow Sculler

// Spells
    1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
    3 [CFX] Path to Exile
    3 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
    1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar
    1 [ARB] Behemoth Sledge
    2 [WWK] Smother
    2 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [WWK] Kor Firewalker
SB: 3 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
SB: 3 [M11] Great Stable Stag
SB: 2 [ROE] Consuming Vapors
SB: 2 [M11] Leyline of the Void

I don't like Dark Tutelage.  It's no Bob and it's just unpleasant most of the time, so I included WOmens and that gave me access to Leyline.  I'm contemplating a splash of blue and/or maybe the Conscription package in place of Stoneforge, but I feel that will probably end up being very clunky.  Just a silly idea that popped into my head.

Leyline of the Void is for dealing with any graveyard shenanigans, Vapors is for control matchups (mostly dealing with Sphinx of Jwar Isle and such), Gaddock Teeg for 5CC and other control MUs, Oblivion Ring is a catch-all, Firewalker for RDW/Boros (kind of for 5CC), Stag for Fae.  Testing is solid, Fae fold to Stag, RDW folds to Firewalker and Void destroys Vengevine.  I'm concerned with Zoo so I'm contemplating Consume the Meek, but Zoo is much weaker now than it used to be.  Firewalker is also good in that matchup (sometimes).  Baneslayer also seems worth contemplating and I would LOVE to be able to fit Realms Uncharted.
I am of the opinion that every deck should always run Luminarch Ascension. "How do I help my deck against deck X?" Luminarch Ascension. ^_^
@Snake Servant - you have your magic history wrong.

Doran Rock didn't beat Fae in Standard - at least not until GSS came out. Doran usually wasn't a problem unless you got him out t2 on the play. That was obviously a very good play, but not an unbeatable one. Cryptic Command could bounce it without losing CA, and Spellstutter Sprite, Broken Ambitions or some other counterspell would take him out.

GSS changed that, and Chameleon Colossus helped out too, but due to the instant speed of many of the Fae lists threats, the Fae player could almost always hold counter mana open for the Colossus, which was what made Wizards print GSS - one of the big Fae killers along with Fallout. But before that, Fae lists died out due to Fallout being the sweeper of choice. Thus, Fae - the natural enemy - was very unpopular, and the default sweeper couldn't take on most of Doran's threats. Doran unsurprisingly made a comeback, Wrath started to see play again over Fallout, and, even more unsurprisingly, Fae was back with a vengeance. Then Fallout started seeing play again, and things sort of balanced out - until GSS, that is.

At that point, however, decks like Jund were just plain better than Doran. Thus, Doran quickly fell out of favour, and was never heard from again.

I still believe that Jund will be a better Rock deck than Doran. Doran should have a better manabase, though, with the power of fetches, so anything could potentially happen, I guess. Unfortunately, there are no shock-lands for Treefolk Harbinger to fetch, or I'd propose a Treefolk Rock deck with Harbinger, Doran, Colossus and Nameless Inversion for treefolk. Regular rock for the rest. Fetching a Doran with Harbinger isn't bad - and if you could fix Doran mana with it as well (when you had the Doran in hand but couldn't play it t3) it would IMO be good enough to play. Obviously, though, you can't.

I'm not sold on Doran by any means. It could surprise, I guess, but I doubt it.
Photobucket Banner by zpikduM - typo also by zpikduM. =) Skide Fuld - Problem of Evil by frontsession Currently playing Standard: TurboJund Legacy: Zoo Block: Hahaha, good one! 1000th post on August 28, 2009 at 6:08PM