P.E.A.C.H. this Force Talent

I was thinking about the quasi-dilemma of Force users becoming gradually impotent at higher levels and thought I would take a stab at creating a band-aid of sort. Unfortunately other than a house rule a ran across lately that proposes Block/Deflect use BAB (similar to the Cortosis gauntlet application), this does little to balance out the lower level dominance of Force Users. All feed back is welcome: please accept a very big thank you in advance.


 


 


COMPLETE THE CIRCUIT 
  Able to unleash your Force Powers more effectively at close range, you lash out with devastating results when you are able to touch your target.
   When you make a Use the Force check to activate a Force Power that has a Target other than you; you may replace the activating skill check with the result of a melee attack against an adjacent target, using relevant modifiers for a weapon you are currently armed with.
   Force Powers activated with Complete the Circuit are able to be negated as both melee attacks (via talents and abilities like Block and Unarmed Perry) as well as through conventional means such as the Rebuke Force Power.


Rule of cool inner-monologue:
   I picture a Force User with this talent swinging her lightsaber and stopping at the last second (martial arts movie style) as (a Move object is instead activated) and the opponent is hurled back.
   Or a Warden of the Sky lowering his center of gravity and reaching out- his opponent instantaneously assesses the danger of a punch and smiles as his confidence is put in his armor’s recently installed shock web-when, to his surprise, he is engulfed in (combustion’s) fire.


Maybe I am reaching here, but it has been an enjoyable reach.

Interesting.

My first note is that you still need to keep the UtF check in there to determine how effective your Force Power is.  This means I'm not allowing your 10th-level Wookie monster with CHA 6 and no skill focus (normally +8 on UtF checks) to use his melee attack at +6 STR, +1 Focus, +1 self-made saber, +10 BAB (+18 total) to detemine what level the power gets used at.

Now while I wouldn't allow the attack value to determine the power's level of effectiveness I certainly CAN see allowing that attack roll to be used against a target's defense score which I feel is what you are actually shooting for.  Now I think you should only be using your unarmed attack modifier to determine your attack instead of just any melee weapon but your attack does consider you armed (no AoO) even if you don't have Martial Artist I.


I think I would writeup this talent as such:


Touched by the Force (Control talent):  When activating a Force Power against an adjacent target you may use your Unarmed Attack to overcome the target's Defense score instead of the result of your UtF check.


It may need some additional things added to it but I think it conveys what you are going for in a relatively concise manner.

Well that reminds me the touch attack spells from 3.5 dnd. I do not believe there is such a thing in Saga(i'm talking about touch attacks). But then again, the an unarmed attack doesnt suit me right..
To be honest here: What?

 
I was thinking about the quasi-dilemma of Force users becoming gradually impotent at higher levels



Are you referring to the fact that UTF does not potentially scale at the same rate as an attackers BAB?
Or the fact that most force powers do not scale past a certain point (damage wise)?
Or option C, which escapes me.

Not nitpicking or challenging here, just wanted to understand before I attempt to form an opinion.

Dpak
Actor, Gamer, Comic, Corporate Nerd
www.MotleyPlayersIII.com
 

    Brilliant! Good call StevenO. Now that you mention it (with your Wookie example) your suggestion is both more streamlined, superbly concise, and it leaves less room for exploitation (as far as superior weapons are concerned).
   Originally, I was thinking about going the unarmed route- but a combination of soldier feats made me second guess myself (of course it may have had more to do with my long-winded approach). Thank you!


    For Pakman: Originally I was referring to the scaling proportion of UTF vs. BAB and attempting to create a link in the chain where a Powerful Force user (who is standing right next to you) would only be “X dangerous” because we are stripping away the range (o at least an aspect of the range).


    I will also mention that I had Force Adepts on the brain (not your stereotypical combat hardy Jedi -that is). But with StevenO’s suggestion, I feel we are on to something- as it does lend to the soldier / Jedi multiclassing synergy an aspect of superior battle prowess, on both fronts.

    For Blackheartz: Touch attacks as you describe, are those melee attacks that ignore armor bonuses?

Yes that is what a touch attack does, but there is nothing like this in saga. In which anyways there arent many people in armor at high lvls so i'm dropping the whole touch attack thing.

I my problem with attacks as a substitute for UtF checks is that not all Force users can benefit from this talent, except the ones who went soldier/Jedi/Jediknight/jedi master/sITH apprentice/sith lord and have a full bab. IMO a talent in the Control talent tree(a Force talent) should be useful to all Force users.
I my problem with attacks as a substitute for UtF checks is that not all Force users can benefit from this talent, except the ones who went soldier/Jedi/Jediknight/jedi master/sITH apprentice/sith lord and have a full bab. IMO a talent in the Control talent tree(a Force talent) should be useful to all Force users.


If it wouldn't be beneficial to your character you simply wouldn't take the talent in the first place.  There are several Force talents that are completely useless to certain characters so there is no need for this to be any different.  I'd also point out that even the 3/4 BAB is still faster than the 1/2 advancement skills get although the initial boost skills get is harder (perhaps even impossible) to overcome.

jormundre:

Your talents have been well commented by others, so my question is, what is the core issue you're trying to solve?

because if you find utf checks "weak" at high levels I must not see the same issue.

with skill focus, the UTF check base mod (1/2 lvl + 10) exceeds BAB until 19th level.  This means that for 18 levels, force powers are likely to be as effective (to hit) or even more effective than regular attacks.

so, I'm not sure what these talents actually accomplish. 

My Blog, mostly about D&D.
57304548 wrote:
I imagine that Majestic Moose plays a more "A team" type game than most of us. By that I mean he allows his players to make tanks out of a backyard playground set since the players have more "fun" that way.
Actually I much prefer The Losers.
Show
When I and my friends sit down we want a game of heroic fantasy. Rare is the moment when I have cried out in a video game or RPG "that's unrealistic." (Unless there is no jump button. Seriously makes me mad, single handedly ruined the N64 zelda series for me, but that's a digression of a digression.) I mean, we play games with the force in galaxies far, far away, with supernatural horrors, dragons and demi-gods, alternate cosmologies, etc. Reality and it's effects hold little sway to what makes a Heroic fantasy game fun IMO. Just repeat after me: You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You are not how much you've spent on WotC products. You are not whatever RPG you play. You are one of tens of thousands of people that spend money on a hobby. You will not always get what you want


I my problem with attacks as a substitute for UtF checks is that not all Force users can benefit from this talent, except the ones who went soldier/Jedi/Jediknight/jedi master/sITH apprentice/sith lord and have a full bab. IMO a talent in the Control talent tree(a Force talent) should be useful to all Force users.


Isn't there a Force talent that makes you immune to mind-affecting effects for a certain duration? That's a waste once you gain a level in Force disciple.


So right there the game says that not all talents need to be useful for all Force-users all the time.

All the time, good point. This though talent is not useful to half the Force users at any time. :P
All the time, good point. This though talent is not useful to half the Force users at any time. :P


In other words, it is useful to half the Force-users according to your standard. That's quite a lot of characters.

Allow me to rephrase then.

It is useful only to those who have honed their already full bab. I dont know if it they are half the Force users.

The issue this talent is supposed to fix, is the "weakness" of Force users at high lvls. It partially solves it for the stronger(in combat terms) half. Of course the other half makes up for its lack of bab with more skills and access to different types of talents so its quite balanced as it is. The talent is nice but it doesnt fill its role as described by its creator.

Unleashing Force powers through your attacks is damn cool. If the main reason for creating the talent is this, you can always fluff the description of the activating power this way. I mean Mace Windu used a Rebuke through his lightsaber and in the Force Unleashed game, Starkiller seems to do the same with Move Object by grabbing a huge object with his bare hands spinning it and throwing it far far away.