Ginzu Items: A Guide to Dual Purpose Implements & Weapons

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Ginzu Items: It slices, it dices, it shoots lightning bolts!


 




This is a guide/index for characters who need to use implements for multiple classes or who need weapons that double as implements.

**Major Rules update alert** According to this article they are getting rid of the need for dual purposed implements in the new essentials book.  Weapliments will still be needed so I will keep updating the guide when those of feats and items are published, but from now on if you are proficient with an implement then you will be able to use it for any implement power.  Here is the relevant quote:  "Going forward, the Dungeons & Dragons game will feature a system of proficiency with implements that works just like weapon proficiencies. If you are proficient with an implement, you can use it with any of your implement powers. It doesn’t matter where that power comes from—a paragon path, a different class, a new build, whatever—you can use any implement that you’re proficient with to use your power."

Here is the official rules update, which is pretty close to what they said above.  Their are two big exceptions.  First is multiclassing monk and assassin.  You only get ki focuses, not weapons as ki focuses.  So your cleric can mc monk and then use a +1 ki focus while wielding a mace to get a +1 bonus to both cleric weapon and implement and monk implement powers, but if he just has a +1 mace the bonus just goes for for cleric weapon and monk implement powers.

The second exception is non mulitlcass feats that grant new types of weapliments.  So feats like "Eladrin Sword Wizardry, Crossbow Caster, Moonbow Dedicate, Bow Caster, and Hell’s Implement" don't work to let wizard mc artificer use a crossbow as a wizard implement.  Feats like blade initiate (heavy/light blades) and arcane prodigy (daggers) do work.

I have sblocked the items, feats, etc. that are no longer needed because of the rules update.  I am leaving them up in case some DM does not use this rules update.

Abbreviations PHB: Players Handbook PHB2: Players Handbook 2 AV: Adventurer's vault  AV2: Adventurers Vault 2  Motp: manual of the planes.  PHr X: Players Handook Races X MME: Modenkenen's magical Emporium Drag###: Dragon Magazine Number


Part 1 Implements:


no longer useful

These are items that used to be useful for mulitclass purposes, but are not anymore.  Some of them like Pelor's Sceptor and symbol of the radiant flame are still useful for their other properties 

Holy Symbols:

Ioun's Blessed Symbol (AV2) 2 Can be used as a wand.


Symbols of the First Spirits (AV2) 2 Can be used as a totem


Staff of Divinity (AV2) 2 Divine characters can use this as a holy symbol.


Symbol of the Radiant Flame (AV2) 8 Primal characters can use this as a totem. Allies do extra radiant/fire damage when you crit


Star of Corellon (AV) 8 Corellon worshipers can use this as an arcane implement


Convert's Symbol (AV2) 13 Can be used in one hand as one type of arcane implement.

Pelor's Sceptor (AV2) 29 Works as a rod.  Reroll 1s on radiant damage.

Rods


Pelor's Sceptor (AV2) 29 Works as a holy symbol.  Reroll 1s on radiant damage.


Staffs


Staff of Divinity (AV2) 2 Can be used a holy symbol


Verdant Staff (AV2) Can be used as a totem.


Totems


Symbols of the First Spirits (AV2) 2 Can be used as a holy symbol


Symbol of the Radiant Flame (AV2) 8 Can be used as a holy symbol. Allies do extra radiant/fire damage when you crit.


Verdant Staff (AV2) Can be used as staff.


Wands


Ioun's Blessed Symbol (AV2) 2 Can be used as a holy symbol


Arcane General (can be used as any or more than 1 type of arcane implement):

Convert's Symbol (AV2) 13 Can be used in one hand as a holy symbol.


Star of Corellon (AV) 8 Corellon worshipers can use this as a holy symbol.


Part 2 Weapons:


Any:

Ironscar Rod PHR:teifling (mace): 3 Works an as implement 

Rod of Dispater Motp ("heavy" mace) 28. Works as an implement.  Item description says works as a "heavy mace", so I don't know if that is a morningstar or mace.  My guess RAI its a morningstar.

Holy Symbols:

Vigilant Blade D381 (light blade, heavy blade) 4 Avengers and paladins can use it as a holy symbol.

Scepter of Bane D383 (Mace) 4 Works as holy symbol

Weapon of Oaths Fulfilled AV2 (Any Melee) 4 Avengers can use this as an implement.

Disrupting Weapon AV (flail, hammer, mace) 8  Anyone can use it as a holy symbol.  Extra damage against undead.

Unforgettable Cudgel AV2 (Mace) 8 Anyone can use this as a holy symbol and it crits on 19-20.


Crusader's Weapon AV (hammer, mace) 9 Can be used as a holy symbol and half the damage is radiant and gives extra use of channel divinity once a day.


Weapon of Evil Undone AV2 (Any weapon) 10 Works on any weapon as a holy symbol and anyone can use it, but has weird properties.  Best for devas.


Bradaman's Weapon AV2 (Heavy Blade, Axe, Hammer) 13 Anyone can use this as a holy symbol.

Moonbow Drag386 (Bow) Sahanine worshipper can use as a holy symbol or arcane implement.

Avandra's Whisper AV (light blade) 17 Avandra worshipper can use this as a holy symbol

Lion's Heart Hammer AV2 (Hammer) 17 Anyone can use this as a holy symbol

Blade of Bahamut AV (heavy blade) 19 Bahamut worshippers can use this as a holy symbol

Moradin's Weapon AV (hammer) 19 Moradin worshippers can use this as a holy symbol

Holy Avenger PHB (Axe hammer heavy blade) 25 Counts as a holy symbol and does lots of neat stuff

Serpentine Knife of Zannad BOVD (Dagger) 5 Rare artifact.  Holy symbol.

Justice's Edge (Holy Avenger) This is a rare artifact that works like a holy avenger.

Any Arcane
Moonbow Drag386 (Bow) Sahanine worshipper can use as a holy symbol or arcane implement.

Rods

Rod of Smiting MME (Mace) 2.  Functions as a mace.

Battle Pact Rod AV2 (Mace) 18 This is a rod that works as a mace.  Daily power is for warlocks

Rod of Seven Parts (Simple melee) Rare Artifact!  Counts as a unnamed simple weapon as well, so not sure how that works with things like expertise feats.

Staffs

Rose Scythe of Chauntea D412 (Scythe) 4 This is also staff if you are part of a divine or primal class.

Totems

Alfsair Spear AV2 (Spear) 3 Does psychic and poison crit damage.  Bonus to nature checks.


Totemic Spear AV2 (Spear) 2  Increases range of spirit melee to 2.  Only works for shaman powers.


Totemic Warclub AV2 (Mace) 2 Spirit attacks can originate from you.  Only works for shaman powers.

Wands

Iron Wand AV2 (Mace) 25 Functions as a mace.  Geared towards artificers.

Warlocks:

Pact Blade PHB and AV2 (light blade) 3 Functions as a warlock implement.  AV2 has some variants.

Pact Bow D369 (bow) 2 Functions as a a warlock implement for elf

Pact Hammer AV (hammer) 2 Functions as a warlock implement for dwarves

Pact Sword AV (Heavy blade) 2 Functions as a warlock implement for eladrin

Bards:

Harsh Songblade PHB2 (heavy blade, light blade) 3 Bards can use this as an implement

Piercing Songblade PHB2 (heavy blade, light blade) 13 Bards can use this as an implement

Lilting Songblade PHB2 (heavy blade, light blade) 20 Bards Can use this as an implement

Harmonic Songblade AV2 (heavy blade, light blade) 2 Bards Can use this as an implement

Echoing Songblade AV2 (heavy blade, light blade) 4 Bards Can use this as an implement

Tuning Songblade D390 (heavy blade, light blade) 4 Bards Can use this as an implement

Performer's Blade D390 (heavy blade, light blade) 8 Bards Can use this as an implement

Shrieking Songbow AV2 (bow) 13 bard implement

Songbow of Lullabies Av2 (bow) 9 bard implement

Songbow of Summoning Av2 (bow) 15 bard implement

Songbow of Vanishment Av2 (bow) 3 bard implement

Whistling Songbow AV2 (bow) 2 bard implement

Howling Songbow D390 (bow) 2 bard implement 

Wailing Songbow D390 (bow) 2 bard implement 
 

FAQ (if needed)

Themes

Themes go first, because Elemental Initiate is the simplest way to get a weapliment now.

Elemental Initiate: Ki focuses for everyone!  Easiest weapliment option out there and the theme is very good too.

Primordial adept: rod proficiency.  Some rods count as maces too.



Feats




Arcane implement Proficiency (AP) this lets you use any implement from another arcane class if you are already a member of an arcane class.  So a cleric multiclassed warlock can take this feat to use a staff as a warlock/cleric implement or a fighter multiclassed artificer could use a heavy blade for an artificer implement for instance.  Arcane implements: Wands, orbs, staffs, daggers, all heavy blades, all light blades, rods, and Tomes.  White lotus dueling expertise (see below) is usually better if you want orb/staff/wand/rod because it also includes your expertise tax.

Monastic Disciple: This gives you training in monk implements for monk powers.  Unlike the other MC feats, you can only use actual ki focuses for your non monk powers, so no picking up a +1 longsword and treating it as an implement according to the linked document.  They never really clarified this well.  But my reading of it is that you could have a ki focus equipped and then use that for all your attacks through a weapon your proficient with, so you could use a +1 ki focus and then attack through it while using a longsword and treat it like a +1 longsword and also use the ki focus for your paladin, wizard, etc. implement powers.

Acolyte of the veil: same as monastic disciple, but for mc assassins.

Crossbow Caster (D381) Lets artificers use crossbows as implements.  It is unclear if this means crossbow the item or crossbow the weapon group.  Note this does not work for those mcing artificer.

Hell's Implement (D369) warlord multiclassed to warlock (infernal pact) can use polearms as implements for warlock powers.  Note with the exception of warlords this does not work for those mcing warlock (so no bard mc warlord and warlock to get polearm implements for instance).

Symbol of the Sonnlinor (D385) Moradin worshippers can use a hammer, axe, or pick as a divine implement.  Again this does not work for non-divine characters mc into a divine class. 

Moonbow Dedicate (D386) Sehanine Worshippers can use a short bow as a divine or arcane implement.  This does not work for non-divine/arcane characters mc into a divine/arcane class.  So no shamans or psions going mc cleric to get a short bow implement. 


Hammer of Gond (D404) Artificers and maybe MC artificers can use hammers as implements.  Author of the feat wrote in a forum post that it was written in a way to allow mc artificers to use hammers as implements as well.  So RAI this may be an exception to the rules update about not getting weapliment proficiecy through another classes feat.

Bow Caster (D387) Elf artificers can use bows as weapliments.

Expertise feats

Versatile Experitse (PHB3) Combines Weapon Expertise and Implement Expertise into one feat.  Out of all the expertise feats this used to be the one to take if you were using a weapliment since the essentials weapon expertise feats only applied to weapon attacks, not implement attacks.  But there are better options for a lot of classes now.

Battlesong Expertise (D402) For Bards with weapliments

Devout protector Expertise (D402) For warpriests and paladins with a weapliment and shield. 

Mighty crusader expertise (D402) For Templars, Paladins (no shield), and avengers with weapliments. 

Eldritch Fuisillade expertise (D402) For artificers with crossbow caster.

War wizard expertise (D402) For arcane classes that use light or heavy blades.

White lotus dueling expertise (D402) For arcane classes and it gives you proficiency with rods, staffs, wands, or orbs. 


Paragon Paths


Seldarine dedicate (DP) Lets eladrin or elf clerics use a short or long bow as a holy symbol.

Wizard of the Spiral Tower (PHB) Lets wizards use a longsword as an implement.

Shyran Spiritblade (D371) shaman/swordmage combo path.  Lets you use your blade for shaman powers (note this benefit no longer reall does anything post rules update).  Need to have Arkanul as your background.

Euphonic Bow (AP) Lets a bard use a bow as an implement

Luckbringer of Tymora (D365) Lets clerics of Tymore use heavy blades as an implement

Spell Commander (D381) Artificers can use a bow or crossbow as an implement.

Avernian Knight (MP2) Fighter with warlock's infernal pact can use melee weapon as an implement.

Arcane Trickster (MP2) Rogues can use dagger as an implement.

Eldritch Knight (D395) Knight with arcana training.  Its not a 100% clear, but I think the 11th level feature lets you wield your melee weapon as an implement for wizard powers.  It at least works for one wizard encounter power. 


Other Tricks

no longer needed


Hybriding is in some way the easiest way to overcome the problem of dual implements since any hybrid class can use an implement from either class for all of its powers.


Here is the FAQon paragon path and epic destiny implement powers: "If a paragon path power or epic destiny power has the Implement keyword, you can use any implement that you are allowed to use from your class, as well as any implement you are allowed to use from another feature (such as a multiclass feat)."  I think this is a poorly worded answer, but most people interpret this as allowing you to use any implement you know how to use when using any paragon path or epic destiny implement power.

The Player's Strategy Guide says any implement proficiency gained through multiclassing will let you use any implement you are proficient with for any implement power, but alas customer service when asked was pretty certain this was an error that will see correction at some point in the near future.  Feel free to houserule this in non-LFR games since the consensus on the boards is that this works better that RAW.

AImplement Proficiencies By Class

Note that the following does not include specific magic items like pactblades or holy avengers.  "Sometimes" means that there is a class specific feat or paragon path that lets them get the proficiency.  The arcane implement proficiency feat mentioned above is not included.


So far it looks like all essentials classes get the same implement proficiencies that their non essentials equivalents get: warpriests get holy symbols, hexblades get wands and rods, etc.

Avenger: Holy Symbol
Sometimes: Short bow, hammer, pick, axe

Artificer: Rod, Wand, Staff, Orb
Sometimes: Crossbow, bow, hammer


Assassin: Ki Focus, Proficienct Weapon


Bard: Wand
Sometimes: Bow

Cleric: Holy Symbol
Sometimes: Short or Long Bow, Heavy Blade, Hammer, Pick, Axe

Druid: Totem Staff

Invokers: Rod Staff
Sometimes: Short bow, hammer, pick, axe

Monks: Ki focus, proficient weapons

Paladin: Holy Symbol
Sometimes: Short bow, hammer, pick, axe

Psion: Orb, Staff

Shaman: Totem
Sometimes: heavy Blade, light blade

Sorcerer: Dagger, Staff
sometimes: shortbow

Swordmage: Heavy Blade, Light Blade
Sometimes: totem, shortbow

Warlock: Rods, Wands
Sometimes: Polearms, shortbow

Wizard: Orb, Staff, Wand, Tome
Sometimes: Longsword, shortbow

Class combinations that are out of luck (no way to fix this except for some hybrids):

no longer needed

Non spear, staff or mace weapon users/shamans
Non spear or staff weapon users/druids


Class combinations that require arcane implement proficiency feat or hybrid to work:

no longer needed

Shamans/bards
Shamans/warlocks
Shamans not from Akanul/swordmages
Druids/swordmages
Druids/Bards
Druids/warlocks
post away
Great idea for a guide; I've always thought that we need more resource mini-guides that focus on a particular variety of tricks rather than just class/race specific guides.  I'm glad some others share that opinion, and you've reminded me that I have a guide to finish up myself.

I assume the reserved posts are going to be for feats and PPs that let you dual purpose items since the first post is covering items.  Are you also going to cover things like Feral Armor that are another item type but give you a magic weapon attack?
Not sure what I am going to include, but I was thinking mini sections for feats that allow for use to use more a new type of implement like arcane implement proficiency.

I have been thinking of doing this guide since I started working on my cleric handbook since that is one of the relatively common questions I see on the boards.  I will probably not do much more on this guide today besides clean up the formatting some, but I may have some time tonight to work on it.
Thanks, GelOct. One thing that might be also good to include is other items like armor and objects that help with this situation (one that immediately springs to mind is the Battle Harness Armor). Having all this information does bring one interesting thing to light - trying to be a divine and weapon character at low levels presents a very limited number of choices.
Alfsair Spears can be used as totems.

Heavy and Light Blades should get a listing to due to their being implements for swordmages and thus accessible to arcane classes through Arcane Implement Proficiency and others through hybrid multi-classing 
How would paired weapon (AV) fit in here?  An Eladrin wizard with Dual implement and Eladrin Sword Wizardry would be able to use the weapon as a weapon(implement) and wand, so double the value.
Vigilant Blade weapon (Light/Heavy Blades) Dragon 381, level 4+ usable as a holy symbol.

Nice list, this'll help making characters
Vigilant Blade weapon (Light/Heavy Blades) Dragon 381, level 4+ usable as a holy symbol.

Nice list, this'll help making characters

FYI, that should hopefully be in the January DDI update to the compendium. Has anyone approached the Divine Class handbook creators about linking to this thread in their handbooks?
Also pact bow (AV) for eladrin warlocks.
i was trying to find something likke this earlier. awesome timing
Very handy guide.  Don't forget AV2 added songbows for PreBards as well.
Also pact bow (AV) for eladrin warlocks.



Elves rather than Eladrin, isn't it?

You missed the AV2 songbows for ranged bards.
AV2 is the last main book I have to go through looking for items and I will try to do that in the next few days.  The ones that are in the guide already I copied from my other two handbooks.  I just checked and pact bows are from dragon 369 and work with elves.

Please keep suggestions coming, especially from dragon, since I only skim that unless I am interested in an article and there is a lot of dragon content out there.  I prefer suggestions in the format I have above with name, item level, source, and a very brief description of what it does.

Also if you know of any paragon paths that let you use a weapon as an implement or use a dual implement post it.  Seldarine Dedicate is the only one I know of off the top of my head.
Shyran Spiritblade is a Shaman/|Swordmage PP for characters from Akanul in the Forgotten Realms. 11th level feature lets you use your sword for your shaman powers.
Nice idea. Shame it only confirms what I was afraid of, my fighter/invoker is SoL for a useful implement. Seems they forgot they didn't add holy symbols to the invokers list of implements.
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Battle Pact Rod AV2  18 Useful for warlocks or invokers that want a melee weapon, though it's not a very good melee weapon.


 


Battle Staff EPG 4 While any staff can be used as a quarterstaff, this one merits special mention because it lets characters that can use staffs as implements crit on a 19-20 on weapon attacks.

Euphonic Bow (Arcane Power) is a Bard Paragon Path that lets bards uses bows as implements (for bard attack powers).

Luckbringer of Tymora (Dragon 365) is a Cleric Paragon Path that lets you select a heavy blade as an implement for cleric powers.
Dragon 381 added the Crossbow Caster feat that allows an artificer to use a crossbow as an implement for artificer powers.
Worth noting that shaman/(any arcane) can still be made to work.  Arcane side takes AIP for staff, then uses verdant staff.  Also, swordmage has light blade as well as heavy blade, meaning that all light blades are accessible to all arcane casters through AIP.  AIP(staff) works for druid/swordmages as well, though it's a bit rougher, given that swordmages use swords as more than just implements.
Worth noting that shaman/(any arcane) can still be made to work.  Arcane side takes AIP for staff, then uses verdant staff.  Also, swordmage has light blade as well as heavy blade, meaning that all light blades are accessible to all arcane casters through AIP.



I originally had something like that written down in my third post, but deleted it while editing.  Thanks for the reminder about lightblades and swordmages.

Feats

Arcane implement Proficiency (AP) this lets you use any arcane implement from another class if you are already a member of an arcane class.  So a druid multiclassed warlock can take this feat to use a staff as a warlock implement for instance.  Arcane implements: Wands, orbs, staffs, daggers, all heavy blades, and rods.





I would move the word 'arcane' in this description as such "this lets you use any arcane implement from another arcane class if you are already a member of an arcane class."

Just semantics I guess, but there aren't "arcane implements" per se, just implements that can be used by arcane classes.
Ok I cleared up the arcane implement proficiency feat and have added a bunch of stuff to post 3.
Hell's Implement feat (Dragon 369) grants a warlord multiclassed to warlock (infernal pact) via Pact Initiate feat the ability to use polearms as implements for warlock powers.

I didn't spot Invokers in your class/implement list; they use rods and staffs, in case I didn't just miss it.  

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Farbond Spellblade

When bonded to you, this spellblade returns to your hand faster and from farther distances.


Level: 2
Price: 520 gp
Weapon: Heavy blade, Light blade
Enhancement: +1 attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d6 damage per plus, or +1d8 per plus when used as an implement for an arcane power
Property: This weapon can be used as a heavy thrown weapon with a range of 5/10. If you have the Swordbond class feature, you can call this weapon to your hand from up to a mile away.


First published in Adventurer's Vault 2.


I'm going to use this for my bard even though the swordbond feature is useless.  .....cast through it, hit someone with it, throw it.. The range isn't that great, but I don't plan to stray far from the defender.  Too bad I can't use it as a holy symbol as well. =). 
Vigilant Blade D381 (light blade, heavy blade) 4 Anyone can use it as a holy symbol.


Only avengers and paladins can use it as a holy symbol, not clerics.


Farbond Spellblade

When bonded to you, this spellblade returns to your hand faster and from farther distances.


Level: 2
Price: 520 gp
Weapon: Heavy blade, Light blade
Enhancement: +1 attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d6 damage per plus, or +1d8 per plus when used as an implement for an arcane power
Property: This weapon can be used as a heavy thrown weapon with a range of 5/10. If you have the Swordbond class feature, you can call this weapon to your hand from up to a mile away.


First published in Adventurer's Vault 2.


I'm going to use this for my bard even though the swordbond feature is useless.  .....cast through it, hit someone with it, throw it.. The range isn't that great, but I don't plan to stray far from the defender.  Too bad I can't use it as a holy symbol as well. =). 


Does this actually allow you to use it as an implement? Seems it would only work if your class has the wording that a light/heavy blade could be an implement or if you took a feat allowing it.

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I plan to pick up arcane implement proficiency feat.  Definitely worth the feat price for me. Later on, I'm going to multiclass cleric and pick up one of the previously mentioned heavy blade/holy symbols for cleric attacks.  With just heavy blade implement/weapon proficiencies, I can augment the accuracy of every strike my bard will ever make.  Making a bard really good at everything they do is pretty rough, but I'll make it happen.

Finished going through AV2 and found a couple of new ones


Iron Wand=mace and wand

battle pact rod  = rod and mace (that someone mentioned above as well)

Weapon of Oaths Fulfilled = Any weapon=avenger implement

I will go through Ebberron Players Guide and then be done with most of the guide.  Please keep putting in more suggestions.




 

In a build I'm currently working on, I've run into a roadblock.  I'm making a Shaman|Swordmage with the intent to go into Shyran Spiritblade, generally for flavor reasons.  I'm thinking about using a Totemic Warclub as an implement, however the wording makes me think that it would not work with my swordmage powers, since it allows for you to use it for shaman powers and paragon path powers but doesn't say you can use it as a totem.  Am I correct in this assumption, or was it clarified elsewhere?

I'd guess that your instinct is right.  Being a hybrid shaman just lets you can use totems with either class.  It doesn't change the property of a weapon/implement you wield.  Ask your DM to allow the Warclub.  Otherwise just find a nice Light/Heavy Blade enchantment.
It's not clear at all.

Totemic Warclub: "Shamans can use this weapon as an implement for shaman powers and shaman paragon path powers."
Symbol of the First Spirits (for example): "Primal characters can wield this holy symbol in one hand to use it as a totem implement for primal powers."
For contrast, Pact Blade: Under Warlock, it says: "...can also be used as an implement for warlock powers...", and in the magic weapons section: "This blade functions as a warlock implement, adding its enhancement bonus... for warlock powers that use implements."
Hybrid: "You can wield the implements of both classes, and you can use implement powers from either class (and from those classes’ paragon paths) through the implements of either class."

Arcane Implement Proficiency, songblades, songbows, and every current specific item I can think of are all phrased like the club or the symbol, but the pact blade is a little different (at least, in the item entry) and might work anyway.  The Tome Caddy is just plain confusing, but should also work: "You can wield a tome in place of another kind of arcane implement you can use."

A clarification would definitely be nice.

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It's not clear at all.

Totemic Warclub: "Shamans can use this weapon as an implement for shaman powers and shaman paragon path powers."
Symbol of the First Spirits (for example): "Primal characters can wield this holy symbol in one hand to use it as a totem implement for primal powers."
For contrast, Pact Blade: Under Warlock, it says: "...can also be used as an implement for warlock powers...", and in the magic weapons section: "This blade functions as a warlock implement, adding its enhancement bonus... for warlock powers that use implements."
Hybrid: "You can wield the implements of both classes, and you can use implement powers from either class (and from those classes’ paragon paths) through the implements of either class."

Arcane Implement Proficiency, songblades, songbows, and every current specific item I can think of are all phrased like the club or the symbol, but the pact blade is a little different (at least, in the item entry) and might work anyway.  The Tome Caddy is just plain confusing, but should also work: "You can wield a tome in place of another kind of arcane implement you can use."

A clarification would definitely be nice.


Arcane Implement Proficiency only works for arcane powers.  It doesn't retroactively make heavy and light blades your class implements.

Songblades only work with Bard powers, unless of course you have AIP.
Songbows only work for Bard powers.
Symbol of the First Spirits only works for primal powers.
Totemic Warclubs and Spears only work for shaman and shaman PP powers.
These items do exactly what they say they do.  They are not in the list of class implements.

The Pact Blade does "function" as a Warlock implement, so it would seemingly be usable with any Hybrid's class powers.
The Alfsair Spear also works for classes that Hybridize with Druid or Shaman, as they would then get to use totems.
The Alfsair Spear isn't as clear as all that.  "Classes that use totems can use this spear as an implement for class powers and paragon path powers."  Presumably, "class powers" means the class that uses totems.  You could interpret that to mean powers from any class (as opposed to item, feat, or racial powers), but that would imply it works on multiclass or Dilettante powers, which is silly.

Customer Service says AIP works, BTW.  If that's worth anything.

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The Core Coliseum: test out your 4e builds and fight to the death.

The Alfsair Spear isn't as clear as all that.  "Classes that use totems can use this spear as an implement for class powers and paragon path powers."  Presumably, "class powers" means the class that uses totems.  You could interpret that to mean powers from any class (as opposed to item, feat, or racial powers), but that would imply it works on multiclass or Dilettante powers, which is silly.

Customer Service says AIP works, BTW.  If that's worth anything.



As I see it, a Hybrid Shaman|Swormage, for example, has heavy blades, lights blade, staffs and totems as its implements.  They can use these implements with their class powers.
Edit: whoops.
As for AIP, with the Hybrid rules that we have seen so far, it does not seem to work.
"Choose a type of implement associated with any arcane class. You can use that kind of implement with your arcane powers."  So AIP works for both halves of Wizard|Artificers, but not with both halves of Warlock|Paladins.
 
Maybe CS is reading something different out of PHB3.
THey don't get staffs since neither has staffs as an implement, you are thinking hybrid duid.
Maybe CS is reading something different out of PHB3.

I doubt it.  All they said to me was "Yes, you can. Any implement that you can use for one of your classes, you can use for both."  But that would certainly have to be put in the FAQ or updates, because as written, it shouldn't.

"Edison didn't succeed the first time he invented Benjamin Franklin, either." Albert the Alligator, Walt Kelly's Pogo Sunday Book  
The Core Coliseum: test out your 4e builds and fight to the death.