1/12/2010 LI: "Drafting to Mill"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Limited Information, which goes live Tuesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

There have been multiple Zendikar drafts in which I have first-picked a Crab. Still haven't managed to live the dream. Once, I maindecked one alongside multiple Harrows, and managed to deck a grand total of no one. Frown
Contest Winners
Random Words
Round 1: Maraxas-of-Keld, Cryos_Icy_Manipulator Round 2: Dr_Demento, UltraMaximum Round 3: Dr_Demento, Keino Round 4: KunouNoHana Round 5: Maraxas-of-Keld, Stigma_Lasher Round 6: royinator Round 7: forty2j Round 8: Qazior Round 9: Qazior Round 10: Could be you link
Split Cards
Winner: dberry02
Pac-Man
Round 1: Fallingman
Worldprism
Quotes
57051078 wrote:
I just love how focused the YMtC community is.
56901828 wrote:
That's what I love about posting on these forums. Everyone's an expert(except for me).
57031358 wrote:
really no need to be so bitchy.
58021268 wrote:
@Edacade: Awright kid you go on ahead and do your thing and don't let anyone tell you different y'hear
58335208 wrote:
City of Asymmetrical Beings Land :T:, sacrifice a creature: Destroy target creature with the same converted mana cost as the sacrificed creature.
56957928 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
Might I just interject that making this a meme is the worst idea in magic in my opinion. It is too overpowered. It encourages cheating it in play. Essentially 99/100 times it is cheated in play instead of hardcast. Not only that, but you essentially win when it comes into play.
74943291 wrote:
82512575 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Make five-color hybrid tribal instant with buyback, kicker, cycling, card draw, token production, a steal effect, alternate casting cost and landfall that embodies the love that your mom and I share.
I think you just killed all chances of my card being elegant. Ardency :1mana::symwu::symbr: Tribal Instant - Soldier You may have target opponent gain control of 3 permanents you control rather than pay ~'s mana cost. As an additional cost to cast ~, choose two creatures you control, and sacrifice the rest. If you control a soldier, you can't sacrifice permanents this turn. Landfall - If you had a land enter the battlefield under your control this turn, instead choose 4 creatures. Kicker You get an emblem with "As long as you control both chosen creatures, they have protection from everything." If ~ was kicked, creatures you control get +1/+1 for each creature card in your graveyard until end of turn. Cycling :2mana: When you cycle ~, put two 2/2 Soldier creatures onto the battlefield. Would this EVER fit on a card?~
Aside from a few wording mishaps (should say "each chosen creature" because it's not necessarily two) this is nice. Very simple and elegant. I like the alternate cost a lot, and the kicker goes nicely with the sacrifice. However, the cycling seems a bit powerful (4 power and a card for 3? Cycling is supposed be bad. 8/10 EDIT: Just looked up "ardency". Lol.
58347268 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
58325628 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I'm immortalized too as long as no one deletes this post!
But in the shadow of the great one lurked many who sought to partake of his eternal glory.
Since when am I "many"?
You're a whole damn city.
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Ahem.
58021268 wrote:
Vivisect Sorcery As an additional cost to cast Vivisect, sacrifice a creature. Draw three cards. "For the sake of humanity," the surgeon whispered. The knife had never felt heavier in his hand.
I don't think a world that sacrifices so much would want to stop the making of children .
Vivisect =/= vasectomy
Now I just feel silly.
56287226 wrote:
I read over two hundred webcomics on a regular basis. "Terrible" doesn't even begin to describe me.
70246459 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I think that this is the first wizards-community thread that actually made me laugh out loud. Maraxas, I love you.
IMAGE(http://www.free-smiley-faces.de/free-animated-smileys_Smileys-animiert-kostenlos/free-animated-smiley-love_smiley-herz-animiert-kostenlos_250x250.gif)
58347268 wrote:
batman is a jerk in all of my dreams
mafia is fun so play it
I drafted a mono-blue deck before Christmas (I was not expecting it to end up mono-blue).  I mostly tried to win with 2/1 and 2/5 fliers combined with card draw, and that's how I beat my first two opponents.  Against my third, UB opponent, however, my two Hedron Crabs shone, and I decked him both games (using countermagic and bounce to dodge his removal).  In the second game, I had to resort to chump-blocking his 5/5 Sphinx, while my Crab did its job.  Would have been very very hard to deal with that Sphinx in any other way (other than countermagic, I guess, but I didn't have all that much).
Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!
My Decks
These are the decks I have assembled at the moment:
Tournament Decks (4)
Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block) Sunforger/Izzet Guildmage Midrange (Ravnica/Time Spiral/Xth Standard) Dragonstorm Combo (Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Xth Standard) Bant Midrange (Lorwyn/Shards/M10 Standard)
Casual Multiplayer Decks (50)
Angel Resurrection Casual Soul Sisters Sindbad's Adventures with Djinn of Wishes Sphinx-Bone Wand Buyback Morph (No Instants or Sorceries) Cabal Coffers Control Zombie Aggro Hungry, Hungry Greater Gargadon/War Elemental Flashfires/Boil/Ruination - Boom! Call of the Wild Teysa, Orzhov Scion with Twilight Drover, Sun Titan, and Hivestone Slivers Rebels Cairn Wanderer Knights Only Gold and () Spells Captain Sisay Toolbox Spellweaver Helix Combo Merfolk Wizards Izzet Guildmage/The Unspeakable Arcane Combo Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and his Wizards Creatureless Wild Research/Reins of Power Madness Creatureless Pyromancer Ascension Anarchist Living Death Anvil of Bogardan Madness Shamen with Goblin Game/Wound Reflection Combo Mass damage Quest for Pure Flame Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle/Clear the Land with 40+ Lands Doubling Season Thallids Juniper Order Ranger Graft/Tokens Elf Archer Druids Equilibrium/Aluren Combo Experiment Kraj Combo Reap Combo False Cure/Kavu Predator Combo Savra, Queen of the Golgari Sacrifice/Dredge Elf Warriors Eight-Post Sneak Attack Where Ancients Tread Zur the Enchanter with Opal creatures Tamanoa/Kavu Predator/Collapsing Borders Esper Aggro Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and his Darksteel Reactor Theft and Control Unearth Aggro Soul's Fire Vampires Devour Tokens Phytohydra with Powerstone Minefield Treefolk Friendly? Questing Phelddagrif Slivers Dragon Arch Fun I'm probably forgetting a few...
I got milled just a few days ago at an FNM draft and ended up losing the Match 1-2. Especialy in that last game the Crab itself was anoying but I was able to handle my opponent till he pulled out a kicked rite of replication and finished with a basic land Milling 18 Cards at once. At that point I knew, I should have removed the Crab before that Windrider Eal.....
Gambo: Hee! Although TBH, a kicked Rite of Replication on the Windrider Eel would have been pretty bad news too...

I enjoyed this article. I'm sure the usual crowd of "Too abstract! Give us a draft walkthrough!" whiners will be along before long, but I like reading this kind of thing, even though it's kinda all stuff I already know. 
I like this article quite a bit and agree wholeheartedly. After scrubbing out of a PTQ I was doing drafts while waiting for friends and was extremely frustrated after drafting a disgustingly fast B/R deck that just got stomped on by a mono white deck (answers to everything I threw out until they just swung in with a pumped mountainwalker) so the next draft I went different and first picked a Kraken Hatchling. I wound up with a Ug deck that just stalled and stalled until I landed a fatty. 4xKraken Hatchling, 3xGomozoa, 2xSummoner's Bane, and 3xInto the Roil worked great until the last match which saw me once again against a mono white.
I'm glad that Kamigawa-era draft milling got a small mention here in milling week, as it still ranks as my single favorite draft archetype of all time.  Kamigawa drafting was often a dull affair (oh, you opened a Jitte?  I guess I'll go get lunch then).  The Dampen Thoughts deck saved the entire block for me in limited.  It remains, in my mind, the strongest mill strategy that's ever existed in a limited format (especially when it was CCC - though CBS still had plenty of power).  The perfect synergy between the defensive and deck-searching spells combined with the Splice on the Dampen itself was so hard to combat.  Peer Into Depths with a spliced Dampen Thought to find your Ethereal Haze which was cast to stop yet another attack phase (and with Dampen Spliced onto it for yet another four cards into the bin) was such a devastating series.  It remains the only limited milling deck (and I've tried to play them all) where getting one key card (the Dampen itself) in the first few picks gave me the confidence to devote every remaining pick to the archetype without any thought to a Plan B. 
I'm surprised you didn't mention that the most consistent milling archetypes in limited tend to have cards that do double duty.  For instance, in the Dampen Thought deck, Ethereal Haze not only stopped the bleeding, it allowed you to splice your milling condition.  In the Ravnica mill deck, Vedalken Entracer was a decent blocker, Duskmantle, House of Shadows was a land, etc.

The Ravnica U/B mill deck was actually one of my favorite draft archetypes because you could start out taking your basic removal and Drift of Phantasms, and if you got the Entrancer hookup, great.  If not, you could branch off into the aggro Snapping Drake Halcyon Glaze U/B evasion deck instead. 

You weren't stuck on a blind all-in hope to god someone opens more Dampen Thoughts and doesn't hate them out or try for it as well.  I can't even imagine drafting a deck that requires you to have 8+ copies of a common before you even have a deck.
I'm glad that Kamigawa-era draft milling got a small mention here in milling week, as it still ranks as my single favorite draft archetype of all time.  Kamigawa drafting was often a dull affair (oh, you opened a Jitte?  I guess I'll go get lunch then).  The Dampen Thoughts deck saved the entire block for me in limited.  It remains, in my mind, the strongest mill strategy that's ever existed in a limited format (especially when it was CCC - though CBS still had plenty of power).  The perfect synergy between the defensive and deck-searching spells combined with the Splice on the Dampen itself was so hard to combat.  Peer Into Depths with a spliced Dampen Thought to find your Ethereal Haze which was cast to stop yet another attack phase (and with Dampen Spliced onto it for yet another four cards into the bin) was such a devastating series.  It remains the only limited milling deck (and I've tried to play them all) where getting one key card (the Dampen itself) in the first few picks gave me the confidence to devote every remaining pick to the archetype without any thought to a Plan B. 



Agreed.  I actually would've liked to have seen more talk about the Kamigawa mill deck, because it was a) the first limited archtype of its kind and b) the most effective limited side strategy to date.  If you've never drafted or seen someone draft a Dampen Thoughts deck, then you don't realize how robust it actually was.  You only needed to get 2 Dampen Thoughts, but  you could easily get 3 and sometimes 4, and every card that the deck wanted was a card that would easily lap from everyone else's deck.  And then it played so beautifully!
Very nice artice!

One thing I am wonreding about is the value of the kraken hatchling. It seems to me that I am valueing the card much higher than other people in the draft. I often take it into mid picks, just to see some coming very late. To me this seems liek a perfect card to hold ground while you stabilise. Am I overvalueing it? How high would people pick it?

(I used 3 or 4 of them in my deck that ended the curve with living tsunami + roil elemental, but nothing much else endgame, so needed time).
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