DPR King Candidates 2.0

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Heh Kilpatds; look at page 140, I built the Avenger/KAM; he dishes out 476 DPR at level 30, but he hasn't been posted to the front page yet.  Additionally, just building an Avenger crit striker, before KAM existed, results in One Stroke to Kill Them All, or the Avenger/PMC Ranger/Martial Archetype, who both kick in around 250 DPR.

To Styrx, another build is the Avenger/Ardent Champion/Lorekeeper, who grabs Vorpal Weapon from an Artificer; that gives you your 18-20 crit build.


Or build an entire party instead of just one character; now have an Avenger, with an Artificer Lorekeeper ally, and a Fatesinger bard ally; now your Avenger can truly concentrate on damage (probably MC Barbarian for Hurricane of Blades), get 18-20, 4 dice rolls choose top (none of this junk of Martial Supremacy making you choose your second roll), and deal out a 1700 average encounter nova vs a level 35 soldier.  (I haven't decided the other 2 characters for that party yet; probably my own version of the Cheesewizard (although I had never thought of the immunity piercing stuff, so that's an awesome thread), and then one of my Storm Genasi Archers to take advantage of the Fatesinger.) 
How about a Monk build? I posted a similar version of this on the forums a while back, but here's a build optimized for DPR. Feel free to check my math; it's pretty late.

Build
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 12
Revenant, Monk, Unseen Hand
Monastic Tradition Option: Stone Fist
Choose your Race in Life: Half-Elf
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 19, CON 16, DEX 21, INT 9, WIS 12, CHA 11
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 13, DEX 16, INT 8, WIS 11, CHA 10
 
 
AC: 25 Fort: 24 Ref: 25 Will: 23
HP: 88 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 22
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Revenant Utility: Dark Reaping
Monk Feature: Stone Fist Flurry of Blows
Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike

FEATS
Level 1: Half-Elf Soul
Level 2: Ki Focus Expertise
Level 4: Implement Focus (Ki focuses)
Level 6: Sneak of Shadows
Level 8: Superior Implement Training (Accurate ki focus)
Level 10: Two-Fisted Shooter
Level 11: Versatile Master
Level 12: Starblade Flurry
 
ITEMS
Ki Hand crossbow +2 x1
Amulet of Protection +3 x1
Shimmering Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +2 x1
Blurred Strike Ki Focus +2 x1
Ki Dagger +1 x1
====== End ======


Twin Strike:
+20 to hit
  +6 Level
  +5 Dex
  +2 Proficiency (Hand Crossbow)
  +2 Enhancement (Ki Focus)
  +2 Expertise
  +1 Accurate Ki Focus
  +2 CA (Owlbear)

+13.5 damage (First Attack)
  +3.5 Hand Crossbow
  +2 Enhancement
  +2 Focus
  +2 Bracers
  +2 Owlbear

+13.5 damage (Second Attack)

+56 Damage (First Flurry)
 
+11 on target of attack
    +7 (Base Flurry)
    +4 (Ki Weapons)
  +15 on adjacent enemy
    +7 (Base Flurry)
    +4 (Ki Weapons)
    +4 (Not targeted by triggering attack)
  +15 on enemy within 5 (Starblade Flurry)
  +15 on enemy within 10 (Unseen Hand)

+40 Damage (Second Flurry)
 
Previous damage -16 from Ki Weapons

First attack DPR: .75(13.5) = 10.125
Second attack DPR: .75(13.5) = 10.125
First Flurry: (1-(.25^2))*56 = 52.5
Second Flurry: (1-(.25))*40 = 30
Crit DPR: (11.5*.05)*2 = 1.15

Total DPR: 103.9


Edit: Removed Dex mod damage and recalculated DPR to reflect kilpatds's kindness (on the internet, no less)
Edit: Fey Beast Tamer! Also, made the Flurry damage a bit more separate to correct math errors.
You do not get to add the dexterity mod to the damage rolls of twin strike.
Pardon my derp. New DPR, then:

DPR
Twin Strike:
+20 to hit
  +6 Level
  +5 Dex
  +2 Proficiency (Hand Crossbow)
  +2 Enhancement (Ki Focus)
  +2 Expertise
  +1 Accurate Ki Focus
  +2 CA (Pack Outcast+Shimmering Cloak)

+65.5 damage (First Attack)
  +3.5 Hand Crossbow
  +2 Enhancement
  +2 Focus
  +2 Bracers
  +11 Flurry on target of attack
     +3 Flurry
     +4 Strength
     +4 Ki Weapons
  +15 Flurry on adjacent enemy
     +3 Flurry
     +4 Strength
     +4 Ki Weapons
     +4 not targeted by triggering attack
  +15 Flurry on enemy within 5 (Starblade Flurry)
  +15 Flurry on enemy within 10 (Unseen Hand)

+49.5 damage (Second Attack)
  Previous damage -16 from Ki Weapons

First attack DPR: .75(65.5)= 49.125
Second attack DPR: .75(49.5)= 37.125

Total DPR: 86.25
Er, wouldn't that be:
First Attack: 0.75 * 49.5 = 37.125
2nd Attack: 0.75 * 49.5 = 37.125
Flurry: (1-(0.25)^2) * 16 = 15.
Total DPR: 89.25 ?

Basically, even you miss with the first attack of twin strike, you can still apply your flurry damage on the 2nd attack.  So you could either do
First attack: chance of hitting, and thus doing 65.5 damage
Second attack: chance of hitting, and thus doing 49.5 damage if the first attack hit, or 65.5 if it missed
which would look like
First Attack: 0.75 * 65.5 = X
2nd Attack: 0.75 * (0.75*49.5 + 0.25*65.5) = Y
DPR = X + Y

or you could do
Each Twin strike attack: chance of hitting * hit damage
Flurry: chance of not missing twice times bonus damage 1/turn
which is what I did up top.

(And you're not including crit damage.  Crit: maximize the d6 for 2.5, then add 2d8 for the crit line.  That's 11.5 extra damage on a crit, which happens 0.05 of the time, or adds 0.575 to each twin strike.  Making total DPR 90.4)

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

Er, wouldn't that be:
First Attack: 0.75 * 49.5 = 37.125
2nd Attack: 0.75 * 49.5 = 37.125
Flurry: (1-(0.25)^2) * 16 = 15.
Total DPR: 89.25 ?

Each Twin strike attack: chance of hitting * hit damage
Flurry: chance of not missing twice times bonus damage 1/turn
which is what I did up top.

(And you're not including crit damage.  Crit: maximize the d6 for 2.5, then add 2d8 for the crit line.  That's 11.5 extra damage on a crit, which happens 0.05 of the time, or adds 0.575 to each twin strike.  Making total DPR 90.4)



Thanks, kilpatds! So, let's try this once more.

DPR
Twin Strike:
+20 to hit
  +6 Level
  +5 Dex
  +2 Proficiency (Hand Crossbow)
  +2 Enhancement (Ki Focus)
  +2 Expertise
  +1 Accurate Ki Focus
  +2 CA (Pack Outcast+Shimmering Cloak)

+65.5 damage (First Attack)
  +3.5 Hand Crossbow
  +2 Enhancement
  +2 Focus
  +2 Bracers
  +11 Flurry on target of attack
     +3 Flurry
     +4 Strength
     +4 Ki Weapons
  +15 Flurry on adjacent enemy
     +3 Flurry
     +4 Strength
     +4 Ki Weapons
     +4 not targeted by triggering attack
  +15 Flurry on enemy within 5 (Starblade Flurry)
  +15 Flurry on enemy within 10 (Unseen Hand)

+49.5 damage (Second Attack)
  Previous damage -16 from Ki Weapons

First attack DPR: .75(49.5) = 37.125
Second attack DPR: .75(49.5) = 37.125
Bonus first Flurry DPR: (1-(.25)^2)*16 = 15
Crit DPR: (11.5*.05)*2 = 1.15

Total DPR: 90.4





+65.5 damage (First Attack)
  +3.5 Hand Crossbow
  +2 Enhancement
  +2 Focus
  +2 Bracers
  +11 Flurry on target of attack
     +3 Flurry
     +4 Strength
     +4 Ki Weapons
  +15 Flurry on adjacent enemy
     +3 Flurry
     +4 Strength
     +4 Ki Weapons
     +4 not targeted by triggering attack
  +15 Flurry on enemy within 5 (Starblade Flurry)
  +15 Flurry on enemy within 10 (Unseen Hand)





Are you counting on being adjacent to 2 targets at-will? I don't think that's a valid assumption for DPR King.

Also Ki Weapon damage bonuses are once per turn so only one of the flurry attacks would gain the +4 (or two gain +2).


Awesome concept by the way!


Are you counting on being adjacent to 2 targets at-will? I don't think that's a valid assumption for DPR King.

Also Ki Weapon damage bonuses are once per turn so only one of the flurry attacks would gain the +4 (or two gain +2).


Awesome concept by the way!




Thanks! I've played a build similar to this for 12 levels now, but its lack of at-will double-flurrying was a constant frustration.

The adjacency requirements are difficult. That's why most of the build's encounter and daily powers include slides, pulls, and large amounts of shifting; somewhere on the board, there are two enemies next to each other. I aim to make it there.
That said, this is maximum damage; Even if there's just one enemy adjacent, one within 5, and one within 10, the DPR would be ((34.5*.75)*2) + ((.1-(.25)^2)*16) + (.05*(11.5)*2) = 67.9.

The first four targets are damaged by a single use of the Flurry of Blows power. The second use of the power does not benefit from the +4 damage, but all four targets of the first use would. The items specifies that the extra damage is to the power's "targets", not just to the first creature targeted by the power.
[Edit: Can't get vanguard +2, oops. Going to have to use the Dire Boar]

L6: Human, Warlock|Executioner

20 Charisma (or Constitution) 17 Dexterity
-- Pack Outcast Theme
Because of Pack Outcast, I always have CA. Charge is required.
Minor Curse, Move (position), Standard Charge w/Eldritch Strike:

Mounted:
-- Feats: Spear Expertise, Sneak of Shadows, Mindbite Scorn, Surprising Charge, Killing Curse
-- Items: L7 Dire Boar, L6 Horned Helm, L5 Vanguard Lance +1 , GP Bracers of Mighty Striking

To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 2 prof + 1 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +15 vs AC 20 = 20% miss // 75% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 SE + 1 enh + 1 versatile + 2 item + 1d10 lance + 1d10 lance (mounted+ch) + 1d10 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  [+ 1d8 crit] =
3d10+4d8+1d6+10 [+1d8 crit] = 48 // 82.5 crit
=> 0.75 * 48 + 0.05 * 82.5 + 0.75 * (0.55 * 20 + 0.05 * 29)   = 49.4625 DPR

Unmounted:
-- Feats: Light Blade Expertise, Sneak of Shadows, Mindbite Scorn, Surprising Charge, Killing Curse
-- Items: L7 devastating ki focus +1, L6 Horned Helm, L5 vanguard dagger +1, GP Bracers of Mighty Striking, non-magical rapier

The idea here is to have a vanguard off-hand weapon, which grants the +1d8 on charges even when not used as a weapon. You use the devastating Ki Focus (thanks to draconisorion for the idea) and a plain rapier in the attack.

To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 3 prof + 1 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +16 vs AC 20 = 15% miss // 80% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 LBE + 2 enh + 2 item + 1d8 rapier + 1d8 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  [+ 1d8 crit] =
6d8+1d6+10, but all 1's and 2's are 3's = 43.25 // 68.5
=> 0.80 * 43.25 + 0.05 * 68.5  = 38.025 DPR

Mounted:


Unmounted:



Thank you. The lower tier is absolutely worthless in my mind as every single on depends on being mounted. Nice to see non-mounted numbers.

@Illeist - I'd post both numbers. As the organizer I'd take your DPR without the assumption that you are adjacent to 2 creatures and put a note that it increases when adjacent to 2. AoE bursters aren't able to assume several mobs inside their bursts either.

L6: Human, Warlock|Executioner
20 Charisma (or Constitution) 17 Dexterity
-- Pack Outcast Theme
-- Feats: Light Blade Expertise, Sneak of Shadows, Mindbite Scorn, Surprising Charge, Killing Curse

-- Items: L7 Vanguard Rapier +2, L6 Horned Helm, L5 Magebred Destrier , GP Bracers of Mighty Striking

Because of Pack Outcast, I always have CA. Charge is required.

Minor Curse, Move (position), Standard Charge w/Eldritch Strike:

Mounted:
To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 3 prof + 2 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +17 vs AC 20 = 10% miss // 85% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 LBE + 2 enh + 2 item + 6 mount + 1d8 rapier + 1d8 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  [+ 2d8 crit] = 40.5 // 73 crit
=> 0.85 * 40.5 + 0.05 * 73  = 43.475 DPR

Unmounted:
To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 3 prof + 2 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +17 vs AC 20 = 10% miss // 85% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 LBE + 2 enh + 2 item + 1d8 rapier + 1d8 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  [+ 2d8 crit] = 40.5 // 73 crit
=> 0.85 * 40.5 + 0.05 * 73  = 38.075 DPR


Biggest issue I see here is you arent supposed to combine Essentials as Hybrids....I know CB wont let you, and if I remember correctly, Essentials books were pretty clear on this.

How does it look with a regular Assassin?


Biggest issue I see here is you arent supposed to combine Essentials as Hybrids....I know CB wont let you, and if I remember correctly, Essentials books were pretty clear on this.

How does it look with a regular Assassin?




Um, what?

a) There's no moratorium on hybriding Essentials Classes with conventional ones, and

b) Neither Character Builder no the Essentials books would have anything to say about it, as the only Hybrid Essentials classes so far released have been in a Dragon article that has not made it into the character builder.

L6: Human, Warlock|Executioner
20 Charisma (or Constitution) 17 Dexterity
-- Pack Outcast Theme
-- Feats: Light Blade Expertise, Sneak of Shadows, Mindbite Scorn, Surprising Charge, Killing Curse

-- Items: L7 Vanguard Rapier +2, L6 Horned Helm, L5 Magebred Destrier , GP Bracers of Mighty Striking

Because of Pack Outcast, I always have CA. Charge is required.

Minor Curse, Move (position), Standard Charge w/Eldritch Strike:

Mounted:
To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 3 prof + 2 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +17 vs AC 20 = 10% miss // 85% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 LBE + 2 enh + 2 item + 6 mount + 1d8 rapier + 1d8 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  [+ 2d8 crit] = 40.5 // 73 crit
=> 0.85 * 40.5 + 0.05 * 73  = 43.475 DPR

Unmounted:
To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 3 prof + 2 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +17 vs AC 20 = 10% miss // 85% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 LBE + 2 enh + 2 item + 1d8 rapier + 1d8 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  [+ 2d8 crit] = 40.5 // 73 crit
=> 0.85 * 40.5 + 0.05 * 73  = 38.075 DPR


Biggest issue I see here is you arent supposed to combine Essentials as Hybrids....I know CB wont let you, and if I remember correctly, Essentials books were pretty clear on this.

How does it look with a regular Assassin?




Its not in the online CB yet. But the article is here.


Biggest issue I see here is you arent supposed to combine Essentials as Hybrids....I know CB wont let you, and if I remember correctly, Essentials books were pretty clear on this.

How does it look with a regular Assassin?




Um, what?

a) There's no moratorium on hybriding Essentials Classes with conventional ones, and

b) Neither Character Builder no the Essentials books would have anything to say about it, as the only Hybrid Essentials classes so far released have been in a Dragon article that has not made it into the character builder.


b) I have to disagree, the Online CB does have all of the Essential classes, but you cant hybrid them.

Question, do you have some other way?

b) I have to disagree, the Online CB does have all of the Essential classes, but you cant hybrid them.

Question, do you have some other way?



Just follow curiousdragon's link.
Ok, I missed this article for Hybrids with 4e....This is going to be cool once they update the CB (hopefully October's update) which will probably take a month or two since it is usually a couple of months behind when new things come out.

Thanks all!


Looks like this would be a great "Glass Cannon"....I see defenses going to be low unless you load up on items to boost them at lower end.

This could be a great striker for our LFR sessions, looks like I am going to have to remember this one.
Illeist -
Here is what I did for a modification to what you have for a build that works currently for the CB.   I play LFR so I cant go outside of those rules.  Plus never have mounted combat, so I am going off of that premise.


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Mikal, level 6
Human, Warlock/Assassin
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid) Option: Sorcerer-King Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock Option: Hybrid Warlock Will
Hybrid Assassin Option: Hybrid Assassin Will
Versatile Expertise Option: Versatile Expertise (Light blade)
Versatile Expertise Option: Versatile Expertise (Ki Focuses)
Eldritch Strike Option: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)
Theme: Pack Outcast
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 10, DEX 17, INT 11, WIS 8, CHA 20
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 10, DEX 16, INT 11, WIS 8, CHA 17
 
 
AC: 19 Fort: 16 Ref: 19 Will: 23
HP: 51 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 12
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +11, Bluff +13, Endurance +8, Stealth +11, Streetwise +13, Thievery +11
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +3, Athletics +3, Diplomacy +8, Dungeoneering +2, Heal +2, History +3, Insight +2, Intimidate +8, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +3
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Pack Outcast Utility: Body of the Wolf
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Warlock's Curse  Power: Warlock's Curse
Assassin Feature: Assassin's Shroud
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Strike
Assassin Attack 1: Executioner's Noose
Assassin Attack 1: Gloom Thief
Warlock Attack 1: Malicious Shadow
Pack Outcast Utility 2: Bite of the Wolf
Warlock Attack 3: Eldritch Rain
Assassin Attack 5: Heart of Dust
Endurance Utility 6: Walk It Off
 
FEATS
Level 1: Sneak of Shadows
Level 1: Versatile Expertise
Level 2: Killing Curse
Level 4: Mindbite Scorn
Level 6: Surprising Charge
 
ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit
Rod Implement
Devastating Ki Focus +1 x1
Vanguard Rapier +2 x1
Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1
Rod of Corruption +1
Badge of the Berserker +2 x1
Deathcut Leather Armor +1 x1
====== End ======

+14 to hit (not counting CA and not counting +1 for Charging)
Charge Damage: 5 cha + 1 enh + 2 item + 1d8 rapier + 1d8 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  (additional 2d6 for Sneak attack once per Encounter)  ***Note: LBE is to hit only, not for damage***

The good thing about using a Devastating Ki Implement is that all 1's and 2's on damage dice are treated as 3's, so in essence all of you are rolling 3-8 dmg (per d8)  and 3-6 dmg (per d6) if I am reading it right, which brings up your DPR.

Can someone check my math on this?

Draco
Illeist -
Here is what I did for a modification to what you have for a build that works currently for the CB.   I play LFR so I cant go outside of those rules.  Plus never have mounted combat, so I am going off of that premise.

+14 to hit (not counting CA and not counting +1 for Charging)
Charge Damage: 5 cha + 1 enh + 2 item + 1d8 rapier + 1d8 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  (additional 2d6 for Sneak attack once per Encounter)  ***Note: LBE is to hit only, not for damage***

The good thing about using a Devastating Ki Implement is that all 1's and 2's on damage dice are treated as 3's, so in essence all of you are rolling 3-8 dmg (per d8)  and 3-6 dmg (per d6) if I am reading it right, which brings up your DPR.

Can someone check my math on this?

Draco


You can certainly try to use that Ki Focus all you like, but it doesn't stack with your Vanguard Rapier. When you make a weapon attack, you can choose to use the enchantment on the weapon or the enchantment on the ki focus, but not both.

Also, what exactly is it that you're up to? Curious's build is pretty solid; if you have some good advice, I'm sure he'd appreciate it, but attempting to recreate the concept using CB's OAssassin isn't really doing anything but padding the thread (says the guy who just posted the same build 3 times instead of editing his original post.)

Just realized I should be using a Lance from MME. Here is a remake with the lance (mounted only):



L6: Human, Warlock|Executioner
20 Charisma (or Constitution) 17 Dexterity
-- Pack Outcast Theme
-- Feats: Spear Expertise, Sneak of Shadows, Mindbite Scorn, Surprising Charge, Killing Curse

-- Items: L7 Vanguard Lance +2, L6 Horned Helm, L5 Magebred Destrier , GP Bracers of Mighty Striking

Because of Pack Outcast, I always have CA. Charge is required.

Minor Curse, Move (position), Standard Charge w/Eldritch Strike:

Mounted:
To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 2 prof + 2 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +16 vs AC 20 = 15% miss // 80% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 SE + 2 enh + 2 item + 6 mount + 1d10 lance + 1d10 lance (mounted+ch) + 1d10 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  [+ 2d8 crit] = 54 // 93 crit
=> 0.80 * 54 + 0.05 * 93  = 47.85 DPR




You can get another +1 from using a versatile weapon in two hands. /contribution
That's a nice build.
[Edit: I updated the mounted version of this build]

L6: Human, Warlock|Executioner

20 Charisma (or Constitution) 17 Dexterity
-- Pack Outcast Theme
Because of Pack Outcast, I always have CA. Charge is required.
Minor Curse, Move (position), Standard Charge w/Eldritch Strike:

Mounted:
-- Feats: Spear Expertise, Sneak of Shadows, Mindbite Scorn, Surprising Charge, Killing Curse
-- Items: L7 Vanguard Lance +2, L6 Horned Helm, L5 Magebred Destrier , GP Bracers of Mighty Striking

To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 2 prof + 2 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +16 vs AC 20 = 15% miss // 80% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 SE + 2 enh + 2 item + 6 mount + 1d10 lance + 1d10 lance (mounted+ch) + 1d10 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  [+ 2d8 crit] = 54 // 93 crit
=> 0.80 * 54 + 0.05 * 93  = 47.85 DPR

Unmounted:
-- Feats: Light Blade Expertise, Sneak of Shadows, Mindbite Scorn, Surprising Charge, Killing Curse
-- Items: L7 Vanguard Rapier +2, L6 Horned Helm, L5 Magebred Destrier , GP Bracers of Mighty Striking

To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 3 prof + 2 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +17 vs AC 20 = 10% miss // 85% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 LBE + 2 enh + 2 item + 1d8 rapier + 1d8 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  [+ 2d8 crit] = 40.5 // 73 crit
=> 0.85 * 40.5 + 0.05 * 73  = 38.075 DPR

The +2 vanguard enchant is level 9, not 7, so at best you could have a +1 enchant. This will probably drop your damage done a couple points into the low 40's. Crit damage is still pretty impressive though.
Illeist -
Here is what I did for a modification to what you have for a build that works currently for the CB.   I play LFR so I cant go outside of those rules.  Plus never have mounted combat, so I am going off of that premise.

+14 to hit (not counting CA and not counting +1 for Charging)
Charge Damage: 5 cha + 1 enh + 2 item + 1d8 rapier + 1d8 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  (additional 2d6 for Sneak attack once per Encounter)  ***Note: LBE is to hit only, not for damage***

The good thing about using a Devastating Ki Implement is that all 1's and 2's on damage dice are treated as 3's, so in essence all of you are rolling 3-8 dmg (per d8)  and 3-6 dmg (per d6) if I am reading it right, which brings up your DPR.

Can someone check my math on this?

Draco


You can certainly try to use that Ki Focus all you like, but it doesn't stack with your Vanguard Rapier. When you make a weapon attack, you can choose to use the enchantment on the weapon or the enchantment on the ki focus, but not both.

Also, what exactly is it that you're up to? Curious's build is pretty solid; if you have some good advice, I'm sure he'd appreciate it, but attempting to recreate the concept using CB's OAssassin isn't really doing anything but padding the thread (says the guy who just posted the same build 3 times instead of editing his original post.)

Just realized I should be using a Lance from MME. Here is a remake with the lance (mounted only):



L6: Human, Warlock|Executioner
20 Charisma (or Constitution) 17 Dexterity
-- Pack Outcast Theme
-- Feats: Spear Expertise, Sneak of Shadows, Mindbite Scorn, Surprising Charge, Killing Curse

-- Items: L7 Vanguard Lance +2, L6 Horned Helm, L5 Magebred Destrier , GP Bracers of Mighty Striking

Because of Pack Outcast, I always have CA. Charge is required.

Minor Curse, Move (position), Standard Charge w/Eldritch Strike:

Mounted:
To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 2 prof + 2 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +16 vs AC 20 = 15% miss // 80% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 SE + 2 enh + 2 item + 6 mount + 1d10 lance + 1d10 lance (mounted+ch) + 1d10 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  [+ 2d8 crit] = 54 // 93 crit
=> 0.80 * 54 + 0.05 * 93  = 47.85 DPR




You can get another +1 from using a versatile weapon in two hands. /contribution
That's a nice build.

I guess I misread the Ki Focus, I presumed it was on all weapon or implement attacks, it affected those.

I wasn't "padding the thread", but was trying to give an alternative to your build since CB doesnt currently allow Executioner (or any Essentials hybrids).

Yeah I could use some advice on several of the powers and build out probably to Paragon, but it primarily was just an exercise to see what Warlock|O-Assassin would get for comparable damage to your build.

I like yours, but without CB allowing it, I couldn't use it in any of my LFR matches.

You can get another +1 from using a versatile weapon in two hands. /contribution
That's a nice build.



Can you use it in two hands and still qualify for attack finesse?

 In addition, once per turn you can deal 1d8 extra damage with a weapon attack using a one-handed weapon, a garrote, a blowgun, or a shortbow.

 
 The +2 vanguard enchant is level 9, not 7, so at best you could have a +1 enchant. This will probably drop your damage done a couple points into the low 40's. Crit damage is still pretty impressive though.



Actually its level 8...but you're right. For some reason I thought it was level 7. 

I did a recalc with a Dire Boar (mounted) and devastating ki focus (unmounted) here.
Wanted to get a little feedback on a Lvl 12 Drow Assasin.
If I do it through 6 rounds it looks like 45ish DPR but I'm sketchy on the math, and if I'm allowed to use Encounter powers, or strictly At-Wills?

Any way, here is the build, and the math (math is not my strong suit)

Do note that I have to assume a few things, like a bloodied foe. And If I'm bloodied I've got an extra 5 DPR from my Bloodsoaked Bracers.

I also need CA which I can get myself easily every turn with Cruel Shroud, but staying hidden will be a little harder so I might lose a 1d6 in rounds 5 and 6.

Build
Show

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 12
Drow, Assassin, Blade Bravo
Spellscarred Harbinger Starting Feature Option: Vanish
Guild Training Option: Night Stalker
Spellscarred Harbinger Level 10 Feature Option: Twist Fate
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Spellscarred Harbinger
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 9, CON 11, DEX 23, INT 12, WIS 11, CHA 19
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 10, DEX 18, INT 11, WIS 10, CHA 14
 
 
AC: 27 Fort: 19 Ref: 25 Will: 23
HP: 77 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 19
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +17, Bluff +15, Endurance +11, Stealth +19, Thievery +17
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +7, Athletics +5, Diplomacy +10, Dungeoneering +6, Heal +6, History +7, Insight +6, Intimidate +12, Nature +6, Perception +6, Religion +7, Streetwise +10
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Spellscarred Harbinger Utility: Spellscar Empowerment
Drow Racial Power: Cloud of Darkness
Assassin Feature: Assassin's Shroud
Assassin Feature: Shade Form
Assassin Feature: Shadow Step
Assassin Attack 1: Leaping Shade
Assassin Attack 1: Inescapable Blade
Assassin Attack 1: Gloom Thief
Assassin Attack 1: Grave Spike
Assassin Utility 2: Cloak of Shades
Assassin Utility 2: Converging Shadows
Assassin Attack 3: Army of the Night
Assassin Attack 5: Twilight Assassin
Assassin Utility 6: Sheltering Dark
Assassin Attack 7: Captured Shadow
Assassin Attack 9: Obscuring Shadow
Blade Bravo Attack 11: Taunting Barb
Blade Bravo Utility 12: Threatening Flourish
 
FEATS
Level 1: Light Blade Expertise
Level 2: Knife in the Dark
Level 4: Sneak of Shadows
Level 6: Cruel Shroud
Level 8: Novice Power
Level 10: Adept Power
Level 11: Merciless Killer
Level 12: Cull the Weak
 
ITEMS
Leather Armor
Magic Rapier +3
Addergrease Leather Armor +2 x1
Amulet of Elegy +2 x1
Bloodsoaked Bracers (heroic tier) x1
Shadowdancer's Gloves x1
====== End ======


Math [spoiler]
Against Bloodied Enemy

Turn 1: Free action Shroud
        Cloud of Darkness
        Minor Action: Low Slash
+20(22 with CA) Atk, 1d8+9 +4+5+5+2+2+1d6+3d6(SA) (45.5)
.05 x 45.5 = 2.275
.8 x 45.5 = 36.8
38.675
         Standard Action: Captured Shadow
+20(22 with CA) Atk, 2d8+9 +4+5+5+2+2+1d6 (39.5)
.05 x 39.5 = 1.975
.8 x 39.5 = 31.6
33.575
         Action Point: Leaping Shade
+20(22 with CA) Atk, 1d8+9 +4+5+5+2+2+2+1d6 (37.5)
.o5 x 37.5 = 1.875
.8 x 37.5 = 30
31.875

Total Damage: 103.825

Turn 2: Free Action Shroud
    Standard: Leaping Shade
+20(22 with CA) Atk, 1d8+9 +4+5+5+2+2+2+1d6 (37.5)
.o5 x 37.5 = 1.875
.8 x 37.5 = 30
31.875
    Minor: Sheltering Dark   

Turn 3: Free Action Shroud
    Standard:Gloom Thief
+20(22 with CA) Atk, 2d8+9 +4+5+5+2+2+1d6 (39.5)
.05 x 39.5 = 1.975
.8 x 39.5 = 31.6
33.575


Turn 4:    Free Action: Shroud
    Standard: Leaping Shade
+20(22 with CA) Atk, 1d8+9 +4+5+5+2+2+4+1d6 (39.5)
.o5 x 39.5 = 1.975
.8 x 39.5 = 31.6
33.575

[spoiler]

Am I on the right track mathmatically? Anything simple I could add to up my numbers?

Can you use it in two hands and still qualify for attack finesse?

 In addition, once per turn you can deal 1d8 extra damage with a weapon attack using a one-handed weapon, a garrote, a blowgun, or a shortbow.

 



Absolutely. Unless a versatile weapon has the Stout property, it's counted as a one-handed weapon. That's what stops, say, Brawler Fighters from getting two-handed weapon cheese. The weapon is still one-handed, even if the style in which you use it is not.

Wanted to get a little feedback on a Lvl 12 Drow Assasin.
If I do it through 6 rounds it looks like 45ish DPR but I'm sketchy on the math, and if I'm allowed to use Encounter powers, or strictly At-Wills?

Any way, here is the build, and the math (math is not my strong suit)

Do note that I have to assume a few things, like a bloodied foe. And If I'm bloodied I've got an extra 5 DPR from my Bloodsoaked Bracers.

I also need CA which I can get myself easily every turn with Cruel Shroud, but staying hidden will be a little harder so I might lose a 1d6 in rounds 5 and 6.



DPR Kings is strictly at-will DPR. Unless you can justify how you're able to use these encounter powers indefinitely during a single combat, then you're just looking at your at-will powers. No encounter powers whatsoever (except for those that span the length of the entire fight, such as stances) can be used for these calcs.

Just for the heck of it, I cheesed up my current character and submitted the result here.

The gist is an accurate goliath slayer with polearm momentum and Kulkor Arms Master paragon path. This netstwo MBAs per turn barring a natural 1 on the initial attack. It requires consistent charging, but th opportunity is nearly guaranteed with long step, mobile warrior and anvalnche boots help end of turn repositioning as well.

Note: I used the DPR formula of the first post as follows, correct me if I used it wrong for Kulkor. Adjustments in bold.

DPR = (chance to hit - chance to crit) *(damage on a hit + DPR_kulkor) + (chance to crit)*(damage on a crit + DPR_kulkor)

Feel free to recheck the math as this is my first DPR calculation.

entry template
122.76 DPR(Ch) Pushy Slayer(24th), by Driim(&)[nAC=14, nFort=12,nRef=8, nWill=9]

Show



Level: 24
Race: Goliath
Paragon Path: Kulkor Arms Master
Epic Destiny: Destined Scion

Ability Scores:
L1 – Str 18, Con 10, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10
L24 – Str 27, Con 12, Dex 25, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 12

AC: 39 Fort: 37 Ref: 32 Will: 33
HP: 172 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 51


Feats:
L1 – Goliath Great Weapon Prowess
L2 – Spear Expertise
L4 – Weapon Proficiency (Greatspear)
L6 – Kulkor Arms Tyle
L8 – can't remember
L10 – can't remember 2
L11 – Polearm Momentum
L11 – Avalanche Reaver (replaces can't remember)
L12 – Impaling Spear
L12 – Armor Specialization (Scale) (replaces can't remember 2)
L14 – Striking Resurgence
L16 – Polearm Gamble
L18 – Surprising Charge
L20 – Powerful Charge
L21 – Spear Mastery
L21 – Long Step (replaces Powerful Charge)
L22 – Mobile Warrior
L24 – Powerful Charge

Slayer Stances:
L1 – Battle Wrath
L1 – Berserker's Charge
L7 – Mobile Blade
L17 – Duelist's Assault

Encounter Powers:
L11 – Arms Master Challenge

Daily Powers:
L20 – Subjugation of Steel

Utility Powers:
L2 – Glowering Threat
L6 – Mighty Sprint
L10 – Reactive Surge
L12 – Tempered in Blood
L16 – Relentless Advance
L22 – Slayer's Defiance

Skills:
L1 – Athletics
L1 – Endurance
L1 – Intimidate

Magic Items at L24 (only relevant items listed):
L24 +5 Thundergod Greatspear AV
L22 Dwarven Scale Armour
L22 Bracers of Mighty Striking
L19 Cloak of the Walking Wounded
L18 Belt of Mountain Endurance
L17 Gauntlets of Brutality
L16 Horned Helm
L10 Avalanche Boots



Math


Show

To-Hit
MBA = ½level + proficiency + enhancement + STR + expertise + slayer class feature + destined scion = 12 + 3 + 5 + 8 + 3 + 1 + 1 = 33
charge = MBA + 1 = 34
Kulkor feature attack = MBA + CA = 35


Defense
hitting ref with Impaling Spear
Ref = 12 + level = 36


Chance to hit
Both 0.95, since you still miss on natural 1


Damage
Charge =
2W + STR + Goliath Great Weapon Prowess + enchancement + bracers of mighty striking + Slayer feature + Spear Expertise + Battle Wrath stance + Powerful Charge + Horned Helm + Thundergod weapon =
2d10 + 8 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 12 + 3 + 4 + 2 + 2d6 + 2d6
Average charge damage = 69
Critical dice = + 5d12


Kulkor = 2W + STR + Goliath Great Weapon Prowess + enchancement + bracers of mighty striking + Slayer feature + Battle Wrath stance + Gauntlets of Brutality =
2d10 + 8 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 12 + 4 + 5
Average Kulkor damage = 55
Critical dice = + 5d6

DPR
DPR_kulkor = (chance to hit - chance to crit) *(damage on a hit) + (chance to crit)*(damage on a crit) = 54.850
DPR_total = (chance to hit - chance to crit) *(damage on a hit + DPR_kulkor) + (chance to crit)*(damage on a crit + DPR_kulkor) = 122.76



 


edit: added math spoiler

[Edit: Can't get vanguard +2, oops. Going to have to use the Dire Boar]

L6: Human, Warlock|Executioner

20 Charisma (or Constitution) 17 Dexterity
-- Pack Outcast Theme
Because of Pack Outcast, I always have CA. Charge is required.
Minor Curse, Move (position), Standard Charge w/Eldritch Strike:

Mounted:
-- Feats: Spear Expertise, Sneak of Shadows, Mindbite Scorn, Surprising Charge, Killing Curse
-- Items: L7 Dire Boar, L6 Horned Helm, L5 Vanguard Lance +1 , GP Bracers of Mighty Striking

To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 2 prof + 1 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +15 vs AC 20 = 20% miss // 75% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 SE + 1 enh + 1 versatile + 2 item + 1d10 lance + 1d10 lance (mounted+ch) + 1d10 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  [+ 1d8 crit] =
3d10+4d8+1d6+10 [+1d8 crit] = 48 // 82.5 crit
=> 0.75 * 48 + 0.05 * 82.5 + 0.75 * (0.55 * 20 + 0.05 * 29)   = 49.4625 DPR

Unmounted:
-- Feats: Light Blade Expertise, Sneak of Shadows, Mindbite Scorn, Surprising Charge, Killing Curse
-- Items: L7 devastating ki focus +1, L6 Horned Helm, L5 vanguard dagger +1, GP Bracers of Mighty Striking, non-magical rapier

The idea here is to have a vanguard off-hand weapon, which grants the +1d8 on charges even when not used as a weapon. You use the devastating Ki Focus (thanks to draconisorion for the idea) and a plain rapier in the attack.

To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 3 prof + 1 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +16 vs AC 20 = 15% miss // 80% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 LBE + 2 enh + 2 item + 1d8 rapier + 1d8 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH  [+ 1d8 crit] =
6d8+1d6+10, but all 1's and 2's are 3's = 43.25 // 68.5
=> 0.80 * 43.25 + 0.05 * 68.5  = 38.025 DPR

I don't think that killing curse increases the extra curse damage die you get from mindbite scorn. The two feats read pretty ambiguously to me, but I always read it as extra damage on top of the curse that doesn't really count as one of your warlocks curse damage die. Also, is the lance new? I can't find the weapon in the compendium. Are you just reflavoring some other weapon as a lance? Where does the extra "1d10 lance (mounted+ch)" damage come from?

While am at it, non-item specific version. I assume approriately leveled basic magic items are allowed?

The build only needed to change one non-build-specific feat to Spear Push and drop a bunch of damage addition items to qualify. Aa result DPR dropped by almost even 31 points.

entry template
91.805 DPR(Ch) Pushy Slayer(24th), by Driim()[nAC=14, nFort=13,nRef=9, nWill=10]

Show


Level: 24
Race: Goliath
Paragon Path: Kulkor Arms Master
Epic Destiny: Destined Scion

Ability Scores:
L1 – Str 18, Con 10, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10
L24 – Str 27, Con 12, Dex 25, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 12

AC: 39 Fort: 38 Ref: 33 Will: 34
HP: 172 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 51


Feats:
L1 – Goliath Great Weapon Prowess
L2 – Spear Expertise
L4 – Weapon Proficiency (Greatspear)
L6 – Kulkor Arms Tyle
L8 – can't remember
L10 – can't remember 2
L11 – Polearm Momentum
L11 – Avalanche Reaver (replaces can't remember)
L12 – Impaling Spear
L12 – Armor Specialization (Scale) (replaces can't remember 2)
L14 – Spear Push
L16 – Polearm Gamble
L18 – Surprising Charge
L20 – Powerful Charge
L21 – Spear Mastery
L21 – Long Step (replaces Powerful Charge)
L22 – Mobile Warrior
L24 – Powerful Charge

Slayer Stances:
L1 – Battle Wrath
L1 – Berserker's Charge
L7 – Mobile Blade
L17 – Duelist's Assault

Encounter Powers:
L11 – Arms Master Challenge

Daily Powers:
L20 – Subjugation of Steel

Utility Powers:
L2 – Glowering Threat
L6 – Mighty Sprint
L10 – Reactive Surge
L12 – Tempered in Blood
L16 – Relentless Advance
L22 – Slayer's Defiance

Skills:
L1 – Athletics
L1 – Endurance
L1 – Intimidate

Magic Items at L24 (only relevant items listed):
L21 +5 Magic Greatspear
L21 +5 Magic Scale Mail
L21 +5 Amulet of Protection




Math

Show

To-Hit
MBA = ½level + proficiency + enhancement + STR + expertise + slayer class feature + destined scion = 12 + 3 + 5 + 8 + 3 + 1 + 1 = 33
charge = MBA + 1 = 34
Kulkor feature attack = MBA + CA = 35


Defense
hitting ref with Impaling Spear
Ref = 12 + level = 36


Chance to hit
Both 0.95, since you still miss on natural 1


Damage
Charge =
2W + STR + Goliath Great Weapon Prowess + enchancement + Slayer feature + Spear Expertise + Battle Wrath stance + Powerful Charge =
2d10 + 8 + 4 + 5 + 12 + 3 + 4 + 2
Average charge damage = 49
Critical dice = + 5d6


Kulkor = 2W + STR + Goliath Great Weapon Prowess + enchancement + Slayer feature + Battle Wrath stance =
2d10 + 8 + 4 + 5 + 12 + 4
Average Kulkor damage = 44
Critical dice = + 5d6

DPR
DPR_kulkor = (chance to hit - chance to crit) *(damage on a hit) + (chance to crit)*(damage on a crit) = 44.900
DPR_total = (chance to hit - chance to crit) *(damage on a hit + DPR_kulkor) + (chance to crit)*(damage on a crit + DPR_kulkor) = 91.805


edit: added math spoiler

While am at it, non-item specific version. I assume approriately leveled basic magic items are allowed?

The build only needed to change one non-build-specific feat to Spear Push and drop a bunch of damage addition items to qualify. Aa result DPR dropped by almost even 31 points.

entry template
91.805 DPR(Ch) Pushy Slayer(24th), by Driim()[nAC=14, nFort=13,nRef=9, nWill=10]

While I'm sure that you might be aware of your calculations, it's generally good form to post them for the folks out here to see.
And yes, if your build is designed to be played from level 1, then you can use magic items of value equal to or less than the allotted gold for your level in the DMG. If build at a higher level, then you have gold equal to your level -1 and magic items of levels equal to your level-1, your level, and your level+1 in addition to gold obtained from levels gained since character creation, if any.

I don't think that killing curse increases the extra curse damage die you get from mindbite scorn. The two feats read pretty ambiguously to me, but I always read it as extra damage on top of the curse that doesn't really count as one of your warlocks curse damage die. Also, is the lance new? I can't find the weapon in the compendium. Are you just reflavoring some other weapon as a lance? Where does the extra "1d10 lance (mounted+ch)" damage come from?

Mindbite Scorn: "Your Warlock’s Curse extra damage increases by 1d6, and this additional damage is psychic."
Killing Curse: "The extra damage dice from your Warlock’s Curse class feature increase from d6s to
d8s."

1) "Warlock's Curse" is a class feature.
2) All Warlocks' Curses are from the Warlock's Curse class feature.
QED, the term "Warlock's Curse" is the equivalent of the term "Warlock's Curse class feature."

So let's rephrase this.
Mindbite Scorn: "Your Warlock’s Curse class feature's extra damage increases by 1d6, and this additional damage is psychic."

So, given that Minbite Scorn is a) an extra damage die and b) from the Warlock's Curse class feature, then it follows that when "the extra damage dice from your Warlock's Curse class feature increase from 1d6 to 1d8", it is affected just like the other curse dice.

/debate

Also, as Mr. Dragon said said in one of his earlier posts, he's using a lance from MME. It has the mounted keyword, which does 1[W] extra damage on a charge while mounted and applies a -2 penalty to attack rolls while not mounted.


While I'm sure that you might be aware of your calculations, it's generally good form to post them for the folks out here to see.




Sigh, a perfectly reasonable request, but I was still afraid someone would ask for it because writing them out from the octave file was a pain. Trudged through though, I hope there's enough info there. I guess the only thing not displayed are the critical damages.




And yes, if your build is designed to be played from level 1, then you can use magic items of value equal to or less than the allotted gold for your level in the DMG. If build at a higher level, then you have gold equal to your level -1 and magic items of levels equal to your level-1, your level, and your level+1 in addition to gold obtained from levels gained since character creation, if any. 




Thanks for the clarification even though I was wondering what the rules were for the non-item-specific DPR lists on post 2 Laughing





Human Scout= Charles Lee
Level 6
Spinning Axe Master
Dex 21
Aspect of the Lurking Spider
Human at will Throw and Stab
Feats   Light Blade Expertise, Quick Draw, TWF, Axe Expretise, Manticore's Fury
+2 Challenge seeking Rapier(Stab), +2 Challenge seeking hand axe(DWA), +2 distance Chatkcha (Throw), Iron armbands of power, Gauntlets of Blood


Throw1d6+2aspect+2spinning axe+1LBE+2enchantment+1TWF+2Manticore=13.5 normal // 23 crit
to hit=0str+2 prof+2CA+1LBE+2enchantment+3lvl= +10 against AC 20= 5% crit// 50% hit // 45% miss
.5*13.5+.05*23=6.75+1.15=  bloodied=.5*15.5+.05*25=7.75+.9=7.75+1.25=
7.9 (normal)
9 (Bloodied)

Stab1d8+5dex+2aspect+2spinning axe+1LBE+2enchantment+(1d6 against full HP)+2IAOP+1TWF+2Manticore=
21.5 normal (+3.5 against full HP) (+2 against bloodied)//  32 crit(+3.5 against full HP) (+2 against bloodied)
To hit=5dex+3lvl+3prof+1lbe+2ca+2enchantment= +16 against AC 20= 5% crit // 75% hit // 20% miss
.75*21.5+.05*32=16.125+1.6=
17.725 (normal)
19.325 (Bloodied)  .75*23.5+.05*34=17.625+1.7=
19.32520.7 (Full HP)   .75*25+.05*39=18.75+1.95=20.7

DWA1d6+5dex+2aspect+2spinning axe+2enchant+2IAOP+1TWF=
15.5 normal(+3.5 against full HP) (+2 against bloodied) // 25 Crit (+3.5 against full HP) (+2 against bloodied)
To hit=5dex+3lvl+2prof+2CA+1Axemastery+2enchantment=+15 against AC 20= 5% crit // 70% hit // 25% miss
.7*15.5+.05*25=10.85+1.25=
12.112.1 (normal)
13.6 (Bloodied) .7*17.5+.05*27=12.25+1.35=13.6
14.375 (Full HP) .7*19+.05*21.5=13.3+1.075=14.375

                      Throw        Stab           DWA
Normal          7.9             17.725       12.1*.8=9.68
Bloodied        9               19.325       13.6*.8=10.88
Full HP           7.9            20.7           14.375*.8=11.5

Normal= 35.305
Bloodied= 39.205
Full HP=40.1
Realistic Attack sequenceNormal throw+Full HP Stab+Bloodied DWA
39.48DPR

Once more, let me know if any of my math is wrong, or if anything else I did is wrong or needs explaining.  This seems to be the point that is looses steam to some of the other big builds out there.  Not as high as some, but not bad either.



Total DPR= 35.305-40.1

This is no longer valid. Throw & Stab uses strength and cannot attack the same target. (I have learned to my deep regret after modelling a character after this remarkably elegant build).
Join me on the RPG Stack Exchange. We need people asking more questions!
I really like the throw&stab idea, so I built a replacement. Meet Gogo.

Gogo, daugter of Charles Lee. A non-charging, non-CAing competent striker. Kinda insane though.

Assumptions: We're targeting 2 creatures, necessarily bouncing (literally) back and forth between them. We are in aspect of the dancing serpent until we need to escape from a flank from the two creatures. While pack wolf is in all ways better, it is difficult to calculate the odds of amount of adjacent party members.

This build does not charge nor does it need combat advantage. Combat advantage ovbiously helps though. Aspect of the Cunning fox is another excellent option if your party doesn't routinely flank, though it offers slightly less damage capabilities, it allows for what amounts to a focused fire with the ranged attack and dual weapon attack.

Manticore's fury, being annoying, will be adjusted by the probability of the setup attack hitting. I'd love a more reliable +damage feat there. It, however, feels less unreliable than gauntlets of blood. And I refuse to not provide armor or neck slot as part of the item loadout.

For simplicity, a standard round goes like: Shift 1 (or evac because flanked, and call down wizard's area burst 1's) T&S against target 1, MBA&DWA against target 2. Swap targets and repeat next round. There is significant agnosticism with regards to target selection, so long as they are either isolated from their fellows (not hard at all) or being ganked by the party (not hard at all).

Axe mastery contributes an increase of .23 to the average damage of each attack. Just astonishing. ::sigh::

Throw and Stab: +11 v. AC 1d10 (reroll 1) +6 +2*.70 55% accuracy .50*(5.73+6+2*.70)+.05*(10+6+2*.70+3.5*2) = 7.78

MBA +13+1 v. AC 1d10 (reroll 1) +13+1 +2*.55 (+1 atk/damage from stance) 70% accuracy .65*(5.73+14+2*.55)+.05*(10+14+2*.55+3.5*2) = 15.13

DWA (+13 v. AC)*(+14 v. AC) 1d10 (reroll 1) +13 45% accuracy due to MBA hitting. .40*(5.73+13)+.05*(10+13+3.5*2) = 8.99

31.90 damage total contributed to the encounter every round.


With cunning stalker replacing manticore's fury, it should provide 34.63 DPR instead. Though I'm not sure if that triggers the "CA" tag. (The intent is to show a plain-jane candidate. These numbers are the total contribution over 2 targets, so it's "suboptimal" in the pure-striker sphere, but should fufill the striker's role in combat.


Flavorwise I've got an impossible time visualizing this, but movement-wise it maps really well to Gogo of Kill Bill flame and her meteor hammer. Thus, gogo, daughter of Charles Lee (the errataed build that this is no longer valid for). 

Show

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Gogo, level 6
Human, Scout
Two-Weapon Style: Spinning Axe Mastery
Ranger Wilderness Knacks: Ambush Expertise
Ranger Wilderness Knacks: Mountain Guide
Level 4 Wilderness Knack: Wilderness Tracker
Armor of Adaptable Resistance +1: Armor of Adaptable Resistance +1 (Fire)
Human Power Selection: Bonus At-Will Power
Background: Cat Burglar (Cat Burglar Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORESStr 16, Con 11, Dex 20, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8.
STARTING ABILITY SCORESStr 15, Con 11, Dex 17, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8.

AC: 22 Fort: 19 Reflex: 21 Will: 16HP: 48 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 12
TRAINED SKILLSThievery +13, Dungeoneering +9, Athletics +11, Acrobatics +12, Stealth +12, Perception +9
UNTRAINED SKILLSArcana +3, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Endurance +2, Heal +4, History +3, Insight +4, Intimidate +2, Nature +4, Religion +3, Streetwise +2

FEATS
Human: Weapon Proficiency (Double axe)
Level 1: Axe Expertise
Level 2: Weapon Focus (Axe)
Level 4: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 6: Manticore's Fury

POWERS Bonus At-Will Power: Throw and Stab
Scout aspect of the wild (scout) 1: Aspect of the Dancing Serpent
Scout aspect of the wild (scout) 1: Aspect of the Pack Wolf
Level 2 Scout Utility Power: Invigorating Stride
Level 6 Scout Utility Power: Serpentine Dodge

ITEMS

Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Hide Armor of Adaptable Resistance +1, Amulet of Life +1, Dwarven Thrower Double axe +2
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In unrelated news, I've done a monte carlo simulation for AoE zones and their targetting capacity.

size:2x2, Party Friendly:1.660, Party Unfriendly:1.615
size:3x3, Party Friendly:2.163, Party Unfriendly:1.965
size:4x4, Party Friendly:2.652, Party Unfriendly:2.182
size:5x5, Party Friendly:3.094, Party Unfriendly:2.293
size:6x6, Party Friendly:3.494, Party Unfriendly:2.344
size:7x7, Party Friendly:3.824, Party Unfriendly:2.362
size:8x8, Party Friendly:4.090, Party Unfriendly:2.358
size:9x9, Party Friendly:4.280, Party Unfriendly:2.357
size:10x10, Party Friendly:4.401, Party Unfriendly:2.348
size:11x11, Party Friendly:4.473, Party Unfriendly:2.355


Rather counterintutive, really, but it should help DPR calculations.

Assumptions: Over all battlefields of at least 32 squares from 4 to 12 squares in both X and Y dimensions, over total enemies from 1 to 9 on the battlefield, 5 pcs on the battlefield, 1/16 of all squares "clutter" or otherwise blocking terrain, 100 reps for each of the above. I'm happy to send people my code if they want to play with it. 

Join me on the RPG Stack Exchange. We need people asking more questions!

size:2x2, Party Friendly:1.660, Party Unfriendly:1.615
size:3x3, Party Friendly:2.163, Party Unfriendly:1.965
size:4x4, Party Friendly:2.652, Party Unfriendly:2.182
size:5x5, Party Friendly:3.094, Party Unfriendly:2.293
size:6x6, Party Friendly:3.494, Party Unfriendly:2.344
size:7x7, Party Friendly:3.824, Party Unfriendly:2.362
size:8x8, Party Friendly:4.090, Party Unfriendly:2.358
size:9x9, Party Friendly:4.280, Party Unfriendly:2.357
size:10x10, Party Friendly:4.401, Party Unfriendly:2.348
size:11x11, Party Friendly:4.473, Party Unfriendly:2.355


Liniar Regression = 1.35+0.32x 

Also, 100 isn't enough for a monte carlo.  I think you should run it 1000 times to get a little better results.

Edit:
Actually, when plotted quadraticly, it makes a very smooth curve.   (0.9999 corolation coefficenct)
y = -0.0293 x^2 + 0.7016 x +0.3369

I can't think of any reason NOT to use it.  (except that it assume people are randomly placed).  Still, i concede my origional table to yours.

Also, unfriendly regression.
y = -0.0321 x^2 + 0.4735 x + 0.7138
Though it's got worse corolation (0.9764).  Might not be bad to run it more times for this (heck, since there's a finite number of itterations, you might be able to run though all of them).

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

In unrelated news, I've done a monte carlo simulation for AoE zones and their targetting capacity.

size:2x2, Party Friendly:1.660, Party Unfriendly:1.615
size:3x3, Party Friendly:2.163, Party Unfriendly:1.965
size:4x4, Party Friendly:2.652, Party Unfriendly:2.182
size:5x5, Party Friendly:3.094, Party Unfriendly:2.293
size:6x6, Party Friendly:3.494, Party Unfriendly:2.344
size:7x7, Party Friendly:3.824, Party Unfriendly:2.362
size:8x8, Party Friendly:4.090, Party Unfriendly:2.358
size:9x9, Party Friendly:4.280, Party Unfriendly:2.357
size:10x10, Party Friendly:4.401, Party Unfriendly:2.348
size:11x11, Party Friendly:4.473, Party Unfriendly:2.355


Rather counterintutive, really, but it should help DPR calculations.

Assumptions: Over all battlefields of at least 32 squares from 4 to 12 squares in both X and Y dimensions, over total enemies from 1 to 9 on the battlefield, 5 pcs on the battlefield, 1/16 of all squares "clutter" or otherwise blocking terrain, 100 reps for each of the above. I'm happy to send people my code if they want to play with it. 


Thanks - this is VERY handy shorthand for calculating DPR with AOE attacks in play.  Just to make sure I understood it right: the number of targets in a party unfriendly AOE is lower because the Monte Carlo assumes you're NOT dropping the unfriendly AOE on your allies' heads, therefore lowering the number of possible AOE locations?

I'm not a math geek, but I'm mildly curious how the Monte Carlo AND the linear regression were derived (outside of an Excel plug-in.)

Thanks again for this - will come in handy for me, for sure!
-Alveric "And the sword that had visited Earth from so far away smote like the falling of thunderbolts; and green sparks rose from the armour, and crimson as sword met sword; and thick elvish blood moved slowly, from wide slits, down the cuirass; and Lirazel gazed in awe and wonder and love; and the combatants edged away fighting into the forest; and branches fell on them hacked off by their fight; and the runes in Alveric's far-travelled sword exulted, and roared at the elf-knight; until in the dark of the wood, amongst branches severed from disenchanted trees, with a blow like that of a thunderbolt riving an oak tree, Alveric slew him."
I just did googled for regession calculator...

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I don't speak math. What did you guys just say vis a vis AOE DPR?
I don't speak math. What did you guys just say vis a vis AOE DPR?

Given certain assumptions about number of enemies, number of allies, size of the battlefield, and number of undesireable squares to stand in on said battlefield, how many targets will an AE of a given size attack, further sub-divided into friendly and unfriendly.

Worth noting that if all enemies are large or larger you can use the friendly table even for unfriendly attacks and since they take up more squares it'll be different... but for the assumptions we're making it works fairly well.

@Denubis: Can I have the table assuming you always include one ally? ^.^

size:2x2, Party Friendly:1.660, Party Unfriendly:1.615
size:3x3, Party Friendly:2.163, Party Unfriendly:1.965
size:4x4, Party Friendly:2.652, Party Unfriendly:2.182
size:5x5, Party Friendly:3.094, Party Unfriendly:2.293
size:6x6, Party Friendly:3.494, Party Unfriendly:2.344
size:7x7, Party Friendly:3.824, Party Unfriendly:2.362
size:8x8, Party Friendly:4.090, Party Unfriendly:2.358
size:9x9, Party Friendly:4.280, Party Unfriendly:2.357
size:10x10, Party Friendly:4.401, Party Unfriendly:2.348
size:11x11, Party Friendly:4.473, Party Unfriendly:2.355


Liniar Regression = 1.35+0.32x 

Also, 100 isn't enough for a monte carlo.  I think you should run it 1000 times to get a little better results.

Edit:
Actually, when plotted quadraticly, it makes a very smooth curve.   (0.9999 corolation coefficenct)
y = -0.0293 x^2 + 0.7016 x +0.3369

I can't think of any reason NOT to use it.  (except that it assume people are randomly placed).  Still, i concede my origional table to yours.

Also, unfriendly regression.
y = -0.0321 x^2 + 0.4735 x + 0.7138
Though it's got worse corolation (0.9764).  Might not be bad to run it more times for this (heck, since there's a finite number of itterations, you might be able to run though all of them).

Working on optimizing the searching. I'd need a proper machine to run it on for higher N, and running it on my laptop (as good as my laptop is) is just no. 

Alveric: Yeah. It doesn't count areas with allies in them as valid. (let this be a lesson in taking ally-harm minimization feats and stuff like the architect's staff)

jonathan_sicari: don't use party unfriendly bursts if you want to hit more than 2 enemies. Multi-targetting powers that target single enemies are remarkably useful.

Alcestis: No But if you have an idle box somewhere that I can run this on, I can gin up some code to test it. 
Join me on the RPG Stack Exchange. We need people asking more questions!

I can't think of any reason NOT to use it.  (except that it assume people are randomly placed).  Still, i concede my origional table to yours.

Also, unfriendly regression.
y = -0.0321 x^2 + 0.4735 x + 0.7138
Though it's got worse corolation (0.9764).  Might not be bad to run it more times for this (heck, since there's a finite number of itterations, you might be able to run though all of them).



 

To be fair, the placement is not *quite* entirely random. It tries to put people in flanking positions if they land on top of another thing. While it's not great, I feel it simulates the battlefield (and the tendancy to furball) a bit better than purely random. 

And while brute forcing it is theoretically possible, the search space requires big-iron to do properly. 

Join me on the RPG Stack Exchange. We need people asking more questions!

I can't think of any reason NOT to use it.  (except that it assume people are randomly placed).  Still, i concede my origional table to yours.

Also, unfriendly regression.
y = -0.0321 x^2 + 0.4735 x + 0.7138
Though it's got worse corolation (0.9764).  Might not be bad to run it more times for this (heck, since there's a finite number of itterations, you might be able to run though all of them).

 

To be fair, the placement is not *quite* entirely random. It tries to put people in flanking positions if they land on top of another thing. While it's not great, I feel it simulates the battlefield (and the tendancy to furball) a bit better than purely random. 

And while brute forcing it is theoretically possible, the search space requires big-iron to do properly. 

All the better.

Overall, i still like the numbers better then the orgional table.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.