The New Bleeder - Up to 93 ongoing dmg!!!

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THE NEW BLEEDER - UP TO 139 BURST 1 ONGOING DAMAGE WITH -6 TO SAVES!!!


Aim of the build: To maximize ongoing damage, penalties to save vs this damage, and to punish the most enemies at the same time!!!


First of all I would like to thank the Author of "Da Bleeder" (Edit: ShakaUVM) for his excellent idea.


FEATURES:

Can deal ongoing dmg from 16th level up to 16 [untyped] at will (using Predator's Strike modified by Cruel Cut feat), and can inflict up to 111 ongoing damage with a minimum penalty of -6!!
(Or even 139...see below)


It uses a 2-Handed Battleaxe which is enhanced with the Whetstone of the Venom, and the Eberron shard of Bleeding wounds. Also it has a beast companion and, thanks to the Longtooth Shifter racial power allows for Regeneration 8 to himself and 6 to the beast (from Eldeen Companion feat).


Ruthless Punisher PP gives at level 16 +Wis mod dmg on ongoing effects inflicted, which is just awesome. Also humanoid enemies with ongoing dmg grant CA to you.


Eternal Seeker ED gives access to powers from all classes notably:

1. Storm of Energy, Sorcerer Utility 10 - Increases each ongoing dmg effect by 10 in burst 5, Minor Action.

2. Champion Call, Paladin Encounter 23 - Pulls 5 squares enemies in burst 5 (without needing to hit) to gather them up all close to your warm heart ;)

AND also gives you access to a lvl 24 ED feature like "Thunder and Lightning" from the Storm Sovereign ED (Dragon #372) which gives u (after being reduced to 0 hp) an aura 5 inflicting 15 thunder and lightning every time enemies start their turn in it.

AND when I spend an Action Point you also get another Extra Standard Action in the next round!!

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Rugulron, level 30
Longtooth Shifter, Barbarian|Ranger/Spellscarred/Poisoner, Ruthless Punisher, Eternal Seeker
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Ranger Fighting Style
Seeking Destiny: Thunder and Lightning
Ranger Fighting Style: Beast Mastery (Hybrid)
Student of the Plague: Sight of the Unseen
Beast Companion Type: Bear
Background: Windrise Ports (Windrise Ports Benefit)



FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 26, Con 15, Dex 13, Int 12, Wis 26, Cha 10.


STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8.


AC: 39 Fort: 42 Reflex: 39 Will: 41
HP: 173 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 43


TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +28, Perception +28, Stealth +21, Acrobatics +21, Thievery +21


UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +22, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +15, Dungeoneering +23, Endurance +19, Heal +23, History +16, Insight +23, Intimidate +21, Religion +16, Streetwise +15, Athletics +25


FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent (Ranger's Beast Mastery)
Level 2: Weapon Expertise (Axe)
Level 4: Cruel Cut Style ---> Modifies Predator's Strike
Level 6: Eldeen Companion  
Level 8: Student of the Plague
Level 10: Adept Power ---> Spellscarred Attack 5: Blurring Blade
Level 11: Bleeding Precision (retrained to Reckless Rage at Level 18)
Level 12: Poisoner ---> To reduce Poison resistance, since I'm using Whestone of Venom
Level 14: Persistent Poison ---> Impose -2 saves on poison effects 
Level 16: Aberrant Mark of Contagion ---> Impose -2 saves to ongoing dmg w. Daily powers
Level 18: Raging Bloodcut ---> Sacrifice 1-3[W] to get 5-15 ongoing dmg
Level 20: Longtooth Spirit Shifter
Level 21: Epic Reflexes
Level 22: Robust Defenses
Level 24: Primal Resurgence ---> Recharge Daily Rage when Bloodied 1/day
Level 26: Armor Specialization (Hide)
Level 28: Triumphant Attack
Level 30: Hide Armor Expertise



POWERS
Barbarian at-will 1: Devastating Strike
Ranger at-will 1: Predator Strike (modified by Cruel Cut Style)
Barbarian encounter 1: Great Cleave
Ranger daily 1: Hunter's Bear Trap
Ranger utility 2: Hearten the Beast
Ranger encounter 3: Paired Predators
Barbarian daily 5: Rage of the Crimson Hurricane (retrained to Blurring Blade at Adept Power)
Barbarian utility 6: Snarling Defiance
Barbarian encounter 7: Harbinger of Doom (grants Vulnerability 5 to enemies in blast 3 for 1 rd)
Ranger daily 9: Menacing Cry
Ranger utility 10: Shed the Mark
Seeker's Lore: Storm of Energy (Sorcerer Utility 10, taken at lvl 22 w. Eternal Seeker ED)
Barbarian encounter 13: Blade Whirlwind (replaces Great Cleave)
Ranger daily 15: Arterial Strike (replaces Hunter's Bear Trap)
Barbarian utility 16: Great Stomp
Barbarian encounter 17: Frightening Strike (replaces Paired Predators)
Barbarian daily 19: Flameheart Rage (replaces Menacing Cry)
Ranger utility 22: Hit the Dirt
Paladin encounter 23: Champion's Call (taken thx to Eternal Seeker) (replaces Frightening Strike)
Barbarian daily 25: Blue Dragon Rage (replaces Arterial Strike)
Barbarian encounter 27: Feral Scythe (replaces Blade Whirlwind)
Barbarian daily 29: Crimson Phoenix Rage (replaces Blue Dragon Rage)


 MAGIC ITEMS TO HAVE:

---Salve of Power (heroic tier): Allows you to recharge Blurring Blade. Counts as a Daily Item power.

---Cunning Greateaxe +6: 2-H High crit weapon, apply -4 to saves against effects delivered  by the weapons
   
---Eberron Shard of Bleeding Wounds (heroic tier): +2 [untyped] ongoing dmg when you deal [untyped] ongoning dmg

---Counterstrike Elderhide Armor +6: The first time in an encounter you are hit, the attacker gets 10 ongoing dmg 

---Boots of Teleportation (epic tier): Teleport instead of move (always nice!)
     
---Amulet of Aranea +6: Daily afflict someone w. ongoning poison dmg, inflict -2 on poison effects! Optional, just for flavour.

---Breaching Gauntlets (epic tier): Ignore 5 from resistances of enemies

---Whetstone of the Venom (epic tier): Till end of Encounter deal 15 ongoing Poison dmg with weapon! Counts as a Daily Item power.

---Bloodhound Bracers (paragon tier): Any creature taking ongoing dmg grants you CA.



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CALCULATIONS (@lvl 30)

Assumption
: You gain +[Wis mod] ongoing dmg for each separate EFFECT (from PP)


---Spellscarred 5 - Blurring Blade  [Automatic hit on burst 1, lasts entire encounter, can be recharged w/Salve of Power]
5 [base]+8[Wis] = 13 [fire and necrotic] (save -2 ends)


---Spellscarred 25 - Contagion Flame (Not taken but interesting anyway!)
10[base]+8[wis] = 18 [fire and necrotic]    (save -6 ends) vs one target
+ 15[base]+8[wis]=23  [Poison]                (save -6 to -8 ends) [Whetstone of the Venom]
=41 ongoing


At the start of each turn, enemies adjacent to someone having ongoing dmg from this power get:
10+8 = 18 [fire and necrotic] (save -6 ends) in burst 1 (autohit)


NOTE: If you take this power, make sure you use Champion's Call to gather all enemies together and spread quickly the ongoing damage!!


---Barbarian Daily 29 - Crimson Phoenix Rage: Close Burst 1
15+8+2=25 [untyped] (save -6 ends) [reduced 3[W] dmg w/Raging Bloodcut feat]
+ 10+8=18 [Fire]         (save -6 ends)
+ 15+8=23 [Poison]    (save -6 to -8 ends) [Whetstone of the Venom]
= 66 ongoing damage in a burst 1


 ---Barbarian 15 - Flameheart Rage: Close Burst 1
15+8+2=26 [untyped] (save -6 ends) [increased by +1[W] w/ Reckless Rage, reduced by 3[W] w/Raging Bloodcut]
+   5+8=14 [Fire]         (save -6 ends)
+ 15+8=24 [Poison]    (save -6 to -8 ends) [Whetstone of the Venom]
=61 ongoning in burst 1 


---Ranger 1 - Predator's Strike (At-Will)
[Wis Mod] ongoing (as modified by Cruel Cyt Style) + [Wis Mod] Ongoing = 16 [untyped] ongoing at will!!!


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COMBOS:

1) Crimson Phoenix Rage (Standard Action) + Storm of Energy (Minor Action):
66 +10 ongoing for each effect (there are 3) = 66+30 = 

96 Ongoing dmg in burst 1!



SPECIAL NOTE:

There is no ruling for weather [Fire] & [Fire & Necrotic] ongoing dmg can or cannot stack. If you want to interpret from how monsters resist dmg, it seems that you can somehow treat [Fire & Necrotic] as either, choosing what is more advantageous.

If you agree, you can consider the next combo, otherwise...just ignore it:

2)
Crimson Phoenix Rage (Standard Action) + Blurring Blade [Stance] + Storm of Energy (Minor Action, increasing by 10, 4 ongoing effects):

66+13+40 = 119 Ongoing damage in a burst 1!!!


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Other interesting powers:

-Champion's Call
(Encounter power) that pulls 5 squares enemies within Burst 5 towards you (to keep them close and it needs no hit)

AND

-Harbinger of Doom
(Encounter Power) that gives Vulnerability 5 to all types of dmg for 1 turn to ALL in blast 3 (which you could use in the prior to using the Rage)!

So Vulnerability 5 per 3 effects is 15 extra dmage....

For a grand total of 96+15 = 111 ONGOING DAMAGE!!!



SPECIAL NOTE:
If you think that [Fire] & [Fire & Necrotic] ongoing dmg can stack, using Harbinger of Doom increases ongoing damge by 5 multplied by 4 effects:

119 + 20 = 139 ongoing dmg in burst 1!!!




Edit #nth:
Removed things that didn't work.

IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)
Nice.

You get linked to the Ranger and Barbarian Handbooks now.
First of all I would like to thank the Author of "Da Bleeder" for his excellent idea.

Thanks. =)

However, looking at his build I saw several things that wouldn't work

Which part?

At lower levels it has more of a Ranger-y feel, then it retrains powers and feats to get on to the more powerful Barbarian (with twin Battleaxes) aspect.

Note that the axes don't actually help with Blurring Blade. It's not a weapon power. It also can't deliver caustic whetstone hits.

Demigod gives at lvl 30 the ability to use the Poisoner (from Dragon #373) Encounter power "Improvised Poison" virtually at will. This power modifies an At-Will power (in this case Twin Strike) to add to it ongoing Poison Damage, basically attacking twice per round and dealing 34 ongoing dmg with up to -10 to saves on each hit!!!

Did they recently errata whetstones to not work with at-wills?

Also, fire and fire&necrotic ongoing shouldn't stack, since they're both sources of ongoing fire damage.

Overall, I like it though. Just double check everything to make sure all the stacking works correctly.
Did they recently errata whetstones to not work with at-wills?




I believe you're thinking of reagents.
Quote from ShakaUVM:

Note that the axes don't actually help with Blurring Blade. It's not a weapon power. It also can't deliver caustic whetstone hits.


I know, but I took the double Axes for several Ranger and Barbarian Powers.


Quote from ShakaUVM:

Did they recently errata whetstones to not work with at-wills?


I am not actually using the whetstone with an At-Will power, but with an Encounter Power (Improvised Poison).



Quote from ShakaUVM:

Also, fire and fire&necrotic ongoing shouldn't stack, since they're both sources of ongoing fire damage.

This part has still got me perplexed...as far as I understand from mixed damage types (from how it is resisted by monsters), it seems that is not exactly 50% one type and 50% the other, but you somehow choose the most advantagous type vs someone's resistance.

I guess in this case a DM could rule it's 50% necrotic and so apply only 1/2 the ongoing damage, or if he feels generous he could rule it as a blend where you choose the most advantageous interpretation of it and allow 100%.

IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)

While you can choose it against someone's resistance, never does it say wether you can choose it against the ongoing damage that someone is already taking.

If what you claim is true (not sayng that it isn't, just playing the devil's advocate here), then if you apply 10 cold and radiant (save ends) and 10 cold and radiant (save ends), to someone that has 5 vulnerability to cold and 5 vulnerability to radiant - then he would suffer 30 damage each round, since you are counting the first ongoing damage as pure cold and the second as pure radiant.

Its a gray area really and one that diserves to be clarified by someone more respectable than the cust serv.

If damage has multiple keywords it is only resisted by someone who has resistance to BOTH keywords and only at their lowest rate.  So a frost giant's cold resistance would offer no protection from necrotic cold.  The 50/50 rule was scrapped as part of errata.  However, I'd also rule that the damage could not stack with either necrotic OR cold damage it's not colder than normal cold or necroticier than necrotic.  It's not a new damage type within the rules, just one with multiple keywords.  Generally, it is not expected that ongoing damage will stack that often. 

So if you use necrotic fire first it definitely wouldn't stack with subsequent ongoing fire amage.  If you use fire first and THEN attack with necrotic fire I'm not so sure if the necrotic keyword should kick in as a separate keyword.  It does look like a grey area.  I'd probably just rule that you add the necrotic keyword to the existing ongoing fire.
to my knowledge, Student of the Plague and Poisoner are both multiclass feats, and you have not the Multiclass Versatility ability.
Actually Play'ng: Nothing. My old party is full of short-sighted racists and sexists (on their own admission), so I left.
to my knowledge, Student of the Plague and Poisoner are both multiclass feats, and you have not the Multiclass Versatility ability.



Windrise Ports background benefit let u select 2 multiclass feat in place of only one ^^

there is a reason if this is the most used background in char op ^^'
Never notice it! O_o I fear and respect you.
Actually Play'ng: Nothing. My old party is full of short-sighted racists and sexists (on their own admission), so I left.
Added Storm/Frost/Holy Gauntlets (Hand Slot) from AV to deal with the problem of whether

[Fire] + [Fire&Necrotic] Stacks. 

It's a good idea to buy all three types of gauntlets (of Heroic Tier, since you only want to convert dmg type) to use it with the 2 Barbarian Dailies and the one that recharges w/ Primal Resurgence feat (at lvl 24).
IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)
I know, but I took the double Axes for several Ranger and Barbarian Powers.


Ok, that's fine then.

This part has still got me perplexed...as far as I understand from mixed damage types (from how it is resisted by monsters), it seems that is not exactly 50% one type and 50% the other, but you somehow choose the most advantagous type vs someone's resistance.

That's the bit dealing with resistances. Fire & Necrotic still deals fire damage, and if you read over the rules on ongoing damage: "If effects deal ongoing damage of the same type, or if the damage has no type, only the higher number applies."

You're still not abusing ongoing damage as much as you could be. =) You're a barbarian. Combine Thaneborn vulnerability with a rainbow flavored assortment of ongoing damage types via gloves or whetstones. Crippling Assault adds Vulnerability 10 to a target, which boosts all sourcers of ongoing damage by +10 for a round! Rage of the Battle Tyrant will stack a save ends Vuln 5 onto a target.
Is there a way to do this without hybriding?  I like the idea but I really dislike hybrids.
Is there a way to do this without hybriding?  I like the idea but I really dislike hybrids.




Sure, you can make a Barbarian, scrap the "Poisoner" feats, take a Ranger Multiclass feat (to be able to get the Ruthless Punisher PP) and possibly use a Venom Whetstone instead of the Caustic one (that even inflicts 15 ongoing poison instead of 6 Acid).


Just make sure to take the Windrise Ports background, and that could work quite well!


IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)
You're still not abusing ongoing damage as much as you could be. =) You're a barbarian. Combine Thaneborn vulnerability with a rainbow flavored assortment of ongoing damage types via gloves or whetstones.

Crippling Assault adds Vulnerability 10 to a target, which boosts all sourcers of ongoing damage by +10 for a round! Rage of the Battle Tyrant will stack a save ends Vuln 5 onto a target.
 




Yes, I have just added the gloves and was already thinking something to do with the Venom Whetstone.


As for Rage of the Battle Tyrant + Crippling Strike could be extremely deadly against one target so it's a great idea, but in my build I was going more for an Area type of Bleeder. ;)


Anyway, thanks for the input!!

IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)
trying to build this to test on my own game, but i can't find the poisoner stuff...any help
trying to build this to test on my own game, but i can't find the poisoner stuff...any help




Poisoner stuff is from Dragon #373


BUT ....now I made a few modifications to make it a much more explosive bleeder....up to 139 ongoin dmg in burst 1 and powers extending to burst 2!


I hope you will enjoy it!
IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)
You lost a second level feat in your update.  What would you recommend to take?
Normals Overrated
You lost a second level feat in your update.  What would you recommend to take?




Sorry it was left in the copy/paste process. Thanks for spotting it! 


It's Weapon Expertise (Axe) for the extra to hit bonuses (it has been added in the build)


IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)
trying to build this to test on my own game, but i can't find the poisoner stuff...any help




Poisoner stuff is from Dragon #373


BUT ....now I made a few modifications to make it a much more explosive bleeder....up to 139 ongoin dmg in burst 1 and powers extending to burst 2!


I hope you will enjoy it!

Over how many rounds?

My original build was 96 ongoing damage in one round, no action point. =)

Over how many rounds?

My original build was 96 ongoing damage in one round, no action point. =)






Well, 119 ongoing on multiple opponents in one round (no Action Point), with Action point...139!

I included the calculations in the Combos section.


IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)
Well, 119 ongoing on multiple opponents in one round (no Action Point), with Action point...139!

I included the calculations in the Combos section.



Excellent. =)

Vulnerability is great when combined with the rainbow of fruit flavors of ongoing damage.
is this being made on paper or through the char generator? either i'm blind or its not on the generator
heya, I really like the general concept of the build.

I do have a few comments though:

1. Even for an exercise in optimization, combining Unique Items/Feats/Backgrounds from two diffrent settings is something that bothers me (Dragonmarks, Ebberon shards and Spellscarred/Windrise ports). I think the build can be optimized in a more "Legal" way without them.

2. It doesn't seem to follow the Hybrid rules in various point throughout it's life: you must have at least 1 power of each class in every category.

3. Magic items - Unless i'm missing something - a level 30 char can only use 3 daily items power a day.
So the bad news is : Gauntlets, Whetstone and Amulet is something you can pull once and then you won't even be able to recharge Blurring blade.
There are some "good news" though - Storm Gauntlets don't work like this so you can drop them from the build and save yourself a daily power use and a feat. (Storm gauntlets work for Melee powers not close bursts)

4. That's somewhat less defenitive but i'm not sure if Predator strike benefits from Ruthless punisher feature, given it's the beast doing the damage and not you.


Having said all that, i still really like the concept you're building on here and apperciate the time and effort put into it.



heya, I really like the general concept of the build.



Thanks a lot!



I do have a few comments though:

1. Even for an exercise in optimization, combining Unique Items/Feats/Backgrounds from two diffrent settings is something that bothers me (Dragonmarks, Ebberon shards and Spellscarred/Windrise ports). I think the build can be optimized in a more "Legal" way without them.




He's from the Eberrean Realms ;) 

Well, I might agree with you, but from what I understand from the 'spirit' of the 4th Edition, even if a rule appears in a campaign, there should be a variant that make it work in other campaign worlds, albeit with a different name (or the same if you can't be bothered).

But that's up to personal preference or DM ruling.




2. It doesn't seem to follow the Hybrid rules in various point throughout it's life: you must have at least 1 power of each class in every category.



It was made with my friend's Character Builder...so it should be 100% legal.



3. Magic items - Unless i'm missing something - a level 30 char can only use 3 daily items power a day.

So the bad news is : Gauntlets, Whetstone and Amulet is something you can pull once and then you won't even be able to recharge Blurring blade.
There are some "good news" though - Storm Gauntlets don't work like this so you can drop them from the build and save yourself a daily power use and a feat. (Storm gauntlets work for Melee powers not close bursts).




The Storm Gauntlets work on melee attacks, so it should work since the Rages have the "Weapon" keyword. Even if they are burst 1, they are still delivered by a melee weapon, hence they are still melee attacks.

The Whetstone is not a daily, it's a consumable, so it's not a problem. The amulet of Arenea is just there as a "cherry on top", and is not essential to the build. I guess if you used the

a) Daily Power from Storm Gauntlets twice (by having 2 sets of Gauntlets, which are cheap, since only Heroic level) to be used in 2 different encounters, and

b) Daily Power once from the Salve (expending a Healing Surge) to recharge Blurring Blades

would allow you to pull off the 139 ongoing damage on two separate encounters. In the remaining encounters of the day you still have:

1. A Rage power that delivers 61 ongoing damage in a burst 1 (save -6 ends)

2. An At-Will that delivers 16 [untyped] ongoing damage (save -4 ends)

Which I think it's not bad at all!



4. That's somewhat less defenitive but i'm not sure if Predator strike benefits from Ruthless punisher feature, given it's the beast doing the damage and not you.


Having said all that, i still really like the concept you're building on here and apperciate the time and effort put into it.





That is actually very sneaky and was explained to me by ShakaUMV. Apparently the ongoing damage from from Predator's Strike is applied by "you" and not your beast. Then the extra ongoing damage (from the PP) can also be applied by you. I know...very thin line...but it follows the power's words to the letter. Cool


Well, thanks for your compliments and for your concerns!
IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)


1. I agree about this point being a matter of personal preference/ruling.

2. Yes, the builder doesn't get everything right i guess =) You can see it in the Hybrid rules though.

3. I understand what your trying to say but Melee is an attack type (and Close is another attack type), The weapon keyword is irrelevant for this matter.

Whetstones are indeed consumables but they also count as a daily item use as per AV.
It still should be good enough for 2 Encounters : Whetstone for each encounter and Recharge blurring blade.

4. hehe, i won't argue about this one. as you said it's a thin line.


Cheers.

...besides, it's pretty much expected that they'll errata salve of power some way, and however they choose to errata it, it's likely that you won't be able to salve more than once a day anyway.


It was made with my friend's Character Builder...so it should be 100% legal.



The character builder is not the highest rules authority.  It allows plenty of illegal things and disallow plenty of legal things.  Just because it doesn't track whether you always have 1 power of each type from each class doesn't mean that you aren't required to.

This may change when the hybrids rules are finalized, but for now...


I understand what your trying to say but Melee is an attack type (and Close is another attack type), The weapon keyword is irrelevant for this matter.



Indeed you seem to be right, I checked the PHB2, so no Gauntlets and no burst 2 

I guess there should really be some other type of Rage with keywords different from "Fire" ;))

Perhaps in a future Dragon mag.



Whetstones are indeed consumables but they also count as a daily item use as per AV.
It still should be good enough for 2 Encounters : Whetstone for each encounter and Recharge blurring blade.



Ouch, you are right...bad Whetstones! Bad! :P


Well thanx a lot on the pointers, after all the point of the build is to make it so that it actually works as per the rules....


now I'll go to rework the maths..later on I'll check the powers....


Oooh....can I ask you a question?

Do you reckon that [Fire] ongoing damage stacks with [Fire & Necrotic] ongoing damage?

LOL...I know...I am just trying to not to loose too much bleed damage ;)
IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)
The character builder is not a rules authority.

Actually, it is. :/

The character builder is not a rules authority.

Actually, it is. :/




You're right.  I should have said that if the CB differs from the published text, then the text wins out. 
EDIT: Re-worked the maths since Storm Gauntlets unfortunately don't work as supposed.

But we still have 111 burst 1 ongoing damage with -6 to saves using only 1 item Daily Power (for the Whetstone).

AND it can be safely be used twice daily. A third time if you decide not to recharge Blurring Blades, but "only" for 106 burst 1 ongoing damage at -6 to saves.


Still, I think it's pretty deadly. Just hack'em and teleport away ;)


Now I'll go and check the Powers...see if the CB did some mistake in the Hybridization rules...


EDIT: Checked...the point is..I am not ok by standard Hybridization rules for taking the Daily 25 Barbarian power (should be Ranger).

BUT since the build has an Eternal Seeker ED it can take ANY power from ANY  class as a "Ranger Daily Power"...even a Barbarian power! ;)

I know it's very sneaky, but it is legal.
IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)

I agree =) it's still deadly.

I believe Fire do stack with Fire+Necrotic (Unless the target is immune to necrotic imo).

Anyway, As a suggestion, since you're already using a big weapon anyway i'd consider scraping (Wait for it...) Blurring blades at level 25 and get Reaper's Stance instead.
That can save you spellscarred feats which can go elswhere (Fighter MC + Deep Gash for instance or proficiency with the Superior 2h axe).

I'd also consider Hellfire Master as your seeking destiny to ignore Fire-resistance.


I agree =) it's still deadly.

I believe Fire do stack with Fire+Necrotic (Unless the target is immune to necrotic imo).




That was my first assumption (in the original post) but it was very "grey area" no definitive rule neither for nor against it. I personally agree with you.

In that case the ongoing dmg would go to 149 ;)



Anyway, As a suggestion, since you're already using a big weapon anyway i'd consider scraping (Wait for it...) Blurring blades at level 25 and get Reaper's Stance instead.
That can save you spellscarred feats which can go elswhere (Fighter MC + Deep Gash for instance or proficiency with the Superior 2h axe).




The good thing about Blurring Blades is that it is an auto-hit and lasts an entire encounter.


I'd also consider Hellfire Master as your seeking destiny to ignore Fire-resistance.


I think the Eternal Seeker gives me many nice things...not to mention that if I really wanted to ignore a lot of fire I could scrap an Armor feat for Irresistible Flame (that ignores 20 Fire dmg).


Well, thanks anyway for the great suggestions!
IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)

Reaper's stance is also auto-hit (Fighter level 25 power).
Not only that - you also deal +1W to each adjacent enemy. So basically it's 10 ongoing (base) + 1W. Add all your ongoing damage bonus and it's pretty nice.

The Down-side is you can't recharge it with Salve though. But it might not be that bad - can get another Daily power item instead.

Reaper's stance is also auto-hit (Fighter level 25 power).
Not only that - you also deal +1W to each adjacent enemy. So basically it's 10 ongoing (base) + 1W. Add all your ongoing damage bonus and it's pretty nice.

The Down-side is you can't recharge it with Salve though. But it might not be that bad - can get another Daily power item instead.




First of all, thanks for the suggestion.

However, Reaper's Stance inflicts [untyped] ongoing dmg, and wouldn't stack with other [untyped] ongoing dmg (which I am already inflicting).

[Edit: Nither I would need a Fighter MC feat, being an Eternal Seeker ED ;)]



EDIT: I added the calculations for stacking [Fire] and [Fire & Necrotic] ongoing damage. That's up to 149 ongoing burst 1 damage! Just a bit insane ;)
IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)
From my understanding of the RAI pertaining to ongoing damage, and this is a fairly liberal impression, is that if a creature has [Fire] ongoing and gains ongoing [Fire and Necrotic], they would stack but make the creature immune to stacking of further [Necrotic], [Fire], or [Fire and Necrotic] damage.  Much like with immunities/resistances, its typed as the most advantageous to the attacker.  That's the way I've been adjudicating it when I DM and/or referee Events, anyway.
Why not take the Assassin Feat: Venom Hand Master? *ignore poison resist/immune* did that with a rogue build once. add in a pair of bloodhound bracers (combat advantage vs any enemy taking ongoing damage) and you've got combat advantage pretty much the entire encounter.
Why not take the Assassin Feat: Venom Hand Master? *ignore poison resist/immune* did that with a rogue build once. add in a pair of bloodhound bracers (combat advantage vs any enemy taking ongoing damage) and you've got combat advantage pretty much the entire encounter.




Well, I didn't take the Venom Hand Master feat because it would cost me 2 feats (one for Assassin MC and one for this feat). Plus I took the breaching gauntlets that ignore a further 5 point of all resistances.

As for the bloodhound bracers, they are not "very" necessary, since the Ruthless Punisher 16th lvl feature gives you CA vs humanoid enemies taking ongoing dmg. But they would be essential against all others...so it's going in the build! 


Thanks for your suggestions!!
IMAGE(http://www.forum-signatures.com/wizard/Sigs/2010/final1329876348159.jpg)
From my understanding of the RAI pertaining to ongoing damage, and this is a fairly liberal impression, is that if a creature has [Fire] ongoing and gains ongoing [Fire and Necrotic], they would stack but make the creature immune to stacking of further [Necrotic], [Fire], or [Fire and Necrotic] damage.  Much like with immunities/resistances, its typed as the most advantageous to the attacker.  That's the way I've been adjudicating it when I DM and/or referee Events, anyway.

The rule for resistances and ongoing damage are slightly different. For resists against multitype damage, you get the least of all the types. For ongoing, you take the most from any one type.

Just a word of advice, posting your email address on public forums is usually a very bad idea.

Also, I do not know if the OP is even still around.  This thread is over a year old.