1/6/2010 BoaB: "Swathstorm"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

No, no, no, you don't side into Dragonstorm. You side into AIR.
If your opponent actually laughed at you in the chat, good job on stomping him.
This deck is really fun to play. It's the first combo deck I've ever played so its taking a lot of getting used to, but in the few games I've tried it has been awesome.

Edit
ULTRA COMBO
This is the kind of deck that will probably make Mindbreak Trap and/or Trickbind must have sideboard options in Extended.
I love this deck. Good job, Jacob and Brad. The third turn kill in the first match was impressive. But what really blew my mind was the 16 goblin tokens on turn one in the second match of the final round. Very nice.

borat-very-nice.jpg
Manaug.gif | Manawu.gif | Manau.gif | Manaub.gif | Manaur.gif
My friend has a deck similar to this except it's mono red, he uses burst of speed and goblin bushwacker to give his mass of goblins haste and swing, preferably, turn one for at least near win.  Best is usually when he can ramp up to 10 goblins and then bushwacker with kicker for the win turn one.
really fun, seems powerful, and hatching plans?! i'm sold.
Seems awesome

Just in time for my first PTQ in a couple of weeks ^^

Is it possible to get a turn one win?
red land, grapeshot, pyromancer's swath, rite of flame, desperate ritual, seething song, seething song would probably be the best opening hand and you'd end up dealing 18 damage i think. can anyone else think of a way to win turn 1 or point out any errors in what i'm saying here? if you replace one of the rituals one seething song with a manamorphose and draw into another ritual you could probably would pull it off but it would be up to luck.

play land, tap land (R)
play rite of flame (RR)
play desperate ritual (RRR)
play manamorphose (RRR)
play seething song (RRRRR)
play pyromancer's swath (RR)
play grapeshot.

grapeshot would try to deal 6 damage, swath would replace that with 18. so if you drew any ritual off of manamorphose and played it, you'd deal another 3 (for the win) and if you didn't draw another ritual you'd have to wait to deal the final 2. the odds would be decent but it would be up to luck.
Red land, 3x Rite of Flame, Manamorphose, Grapeshot, Pyromancer's Swath. This hand works, assuming you Manamorphose into anything but a land or a Remand.

You can replace one Rite of Flame with a Seething Song and it still works as long as you Manamorphose into a Ponder, Ritual, or Manamorphose.
Very interesting deck.  I've always been intrigued by storm but playing combo decks has never been my style.  I don't like the idea of non-interaction with an opponent besides counters.   However, since I have a decent chunk of the cards already I decided to drop some dollar on ebay and try the deck out.

Is it just me or does anyone else think that pyromancers acension might have a place in this deck?  Too slow?  Seems like if you can get it out and stick it, it would activate VERY soon and give the deck even more explosive potential.  Just a thought.
Wait, he's bringing this stupid deck back again? I remember this in standard way back, and it was stupid then too. Wizards should just rename this article "hey remember that stupid deck? this is the same thing only with a crappy mana base" because that's all I ever see JVL doing. Maybe he should try building NEW decks that are actually creative rather than just recycling old ones.
I would probably side into the goofy hive mind/pact combo for fun.
Wait, for real? 4 Scalding Tarns? I'm sorry, but that is not budget. Ever. Period. I think it's high time for a new budget deck writer, as JVL has clearly forgotten the meaning of budget.
4 Scalding Tarn go for 5 MAX on mtgo. That's 20 tix for a playset(assuming you can't get them cheaper, which you can)... That seems really budget to me in a format that runs rampant with Goyf and Baneslayer.... Being that Hatching plans is the only other rare in the deck, it seems very very budget.
Wait, for real? 4 Scalding Tarns? I'm sorry, but that is not budget. Ever. Period. I think it's high time for a new budget deck writer, as JVL has clearly forgotten the meaning of budget.


"The list looks expensive, but a savvy shopper can still pick up the full 75 for less than 45 tickets. If you can't afford the fancy mana base, then by all means, use the list above this."
Quoted from his article.

This deck seems pretty budget when you take a hard look at the other Decks in the field.  It's all relative really.
4 Scalding Tarn IRL shouldn't even be a big deal really. Yes, it's about 40 for a playset, but if you're really trying to play anything even close to competitive Magic having the fetches is pretty much a necessity.

+1 Cathelwin
Being that Hatching plans is the only other rare in the deck, it seems very very budget.



Well, pyromancer's swath is also rare. But that's dirt cheap also.

Back when this was standard legal, I had a list that used claws of gix as an additional sac outlet for hatching plans and for its synergy with repeal. It was a fun deck.
I'm just wondering what this deck would look like if it was completely non-budget....this coming from a budget player is odd, but still...
40-50 tickets for a competitive extended deck? it's got a playset of fetches you'll end up using elsewhere...and literally nothing else worth anything. PLUS he gives you an even more budget decklist without the fetches! if you don't like them, don't buy them. he can't cater to you any more than he already is without just taking emails from you every week and writing exactly what you tell him.
I'm just wondering what this deck would look like if it was completely non-budget....this coming from a budget player is odd, but still...



Essentially it should play 4-5 fetch lands and a set of Steam Vents, but the spells are quite the same. I played it in a tournament last week (lands were borrowed...). A further addition could be Akroma, Angel of Fury in sideboard against Thopter and similar decks.
Is it just me or does anyone else think that pyromancers acension might have a place in this deck?  Too slow?  Seems like if you can get it out and stick it, it would activate VERY soon and give the deck even more explosive potential.  Just a thought.



I thought about it, but Pyromancer Ascension requires you to discard/play some piece of the combo earlier in the game, forcing you to find a second one later. Plus, the copies don't count for storm, so it could be at most an alternative win condition. So, in the end, I concluded that cutting one ore two pieces of combo for a third one wasn't worthy. Maybe Pyromancer's Ascension requires a more dedicated deck.

Just because people were discussing turn 1 kills with the deck, I thought I would post this:

Mountain, Rite, Rite, Rite, Swath, Grapeshot, Grapeshot is the best opener, its 27 damage turn 1.

That doesn't happen very often with the deck, but turn 3 and 4 aren't very uncommon.

Cheers 
Crap double post, I lied its 33 damage.
Yet another way to lose against combo in Extended. I like it.

Can you make a Extended update of Elves? It's obviously not the same without Rangers and Wirewoods but something decent and fairly budget is probably possible.
If Limited gets in the way of printing good Constructed cards... Screw limited
Just because people were discussing turn 1 kills with the deck, I thought I would post this:

Mountain, Rite, Rite, Rite, Swath, Grapeshot, Grapeshot is the best opener, its 27 damage turn 1.

That doesn't happen very often with the deck, but turn 3 and 4 aren't very uncommon.

Cheers 



oh! i forgot the rites counted each other in the yard. thanks!

and because i know this kind of thing is helpful for me:

mountain, tap (R)
rite (RR)
rite (RRRR)
rite (RRRRRRR)
swath (RRRR)
shot (RR) - 5 damage replaced with 15 by swath
shot (0) - 6 damage replaced with 18 by swath

15+18=33 damage turn 1.

I don't think that it's a good idea to play Hatching Plans. Sure, the combo with Perilous Research is awesome, but without it's just a dead card. And you don't really want to draw a lone Perilous Research either unless you're at least slightly mana-flooded.

I'd rather stick to Peer Through Depths / Magma Jet / Electrolyze / Condescend etc.
I don't think that it's a good idea to play Hatching Plans. Sure, the combo with Perilous Research is awesome, but without it's just a dead card.


This deck cantrips a lot. I find it very helpful in finding combo pieces. The risk/reward ratio here is pretty decent. One dead card in hand in comparison to drawing 5 cards for 4 mana in two payments? I'll take that any day of the week.
Manaug.gif | Manawu.gif | Manau.gif | Manaub.gif | Manaur.gif
Yet another way to lose against combo in Extended. I like it.

Can you make a Extended update of Elves?



There is to think about it...There has been a version played at Worlds, but it resembles the standard elves of the past year, not the one with the grapeshot combo:

9 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Pendelhaven
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Boreal Druid
3 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Shaman
4 Cloudstone Curio
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Primal Command
4 Summoner's Pact

Sideboard
3 Viridian Shaman
4 Blood Moon
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Molder Slug
3 Proclamation of Rebirth
2 Umezawa's Jitte
nice artikle love to read the stuff from the pro's...

can you make some youtube video,of making the deck and play it on mtgo??? or in the future decks...?

will love if you try to take a heartbeat of spring + early harvest combo storm deck...  to extended we got !!FOG!! now love the card:P

HAppy brewing champs!!!



You can also use Crack the Earth to get rid of hatching plans and make an opponent sac something of there's for just 1 red mana!!
Why does this list remind me of something from the Legacy Format?
Why does this list remind me of something from the Legacy Format?


Probably because this is basically a Legacy deck. If I took this deck to Legacy, I probably wouldn't change anything, except it would probably be better to add black for Tendrils and Ad Nauseum, and maybe remove blue entirely. But this is pretty much legacy, which adds nothing to this deck in red/blue. Well, Brainstorm.

Contest Winners
Random Words
Round 1: Maraxas-of-Keld, Cryos_Icy_Manipulator Round 2: Dr_Demento, UltraMaximum Round 3: Dr_Demento, Keino Round 4: KunouNoHana Round 5: Maraxas-of-Keld, Stigma_Lasher Round 6: royinator Round 7: forty2j Round 8: Qazior Round 9: Qazior Round 10: Could be you link
Split Cards
Winner: dberry02
Pac-Man
Round 1: Fallingman
Worldprism
Quotes
57051078 wrote:
I just love how focused the YMtC community is.
56901828 wrote:
That's what I love about posting on these forums. Everyone's an expert(except for me).
57031358 wrote:
really no need to be so bitchy.
58021268 wrote:
@Edacade: Awright kid you go on ahead and do your thing and don't let anyone tell you different y'hear
58335208 wrote:
City of Asymmetrical Beings Land :T:, sacrifice a creature: Destroy target creature with the same converted mana cost as the sacrificed creature.
56957928 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
Might I just interject that making this a meme is the worst idea in magic in my opinion. It is too overpowered. It encourages cheating it in play. Essentially 99/100 times it is cheated in play instead of hardcast. Not only that, but you essentially win when it comes into play.
74943291 wrote:
82512575 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Make five-color hybrid tribal instant with buyback, kicker, cycling, card draw, token production, a steal effect, alternate casting cost and landfall that embodies the love that your mom and I share.
I think you just killed all chances of my card being elegant. Ardency :1mana::symwu::symbr: Tribal Instant - Soldier You may have target opponent gain control of 3 permanents you control rather than pay ~'s mana cost. As an additional cost to cast ~, choose two creatures you control, and sacrifice the rest. If you control a soldier, you can't sacrifice permanents this turn. Landfall - If you had a land enter the battlefield under your control this turn, instead choose 4 creatures. Kicker You get an emblem with "As long as you control both chosen creatures, they have protection from everything." If ~ was kicked, creatures you control get +1/+1 for each creature card in your graveyard until end of turn. Cycling :2mana: When you cycle ~, put two 2/2 Soldier creatures onto the battlefield. Would this EVER fit on a card?~
Aside from a few wording mishaps (should say "each chosen creature" because it's not necessarily two) this is nice. Very simple and elegant. I like the alternate cost a lot, and the kicker goes nicely with the sacrifice. However, the cycling seems a bit powerful (4 power and a card for 3? Cycling is supposed be bad. 8/10 EDIT: Just looked up "ardency". Lol.
58347268 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
58325628 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I'm immortalized too as long as no one deletes this post!
But in the shadow of the great one lurked many who sought to partake of his eternal glory.
Since when am I "many"?
You're a whole damn city.
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Ahem.
58021268 wrote:
Vivisect Sorcery As an additional cost to cast Vivisect, sacrifice a creature. Draw three cards. "For the sake of humanity," the surgeon whispered. The knife had never felt heavier in his hand.
I don't think a world that sacrifices so much would want to stop the making of children .
Vivisect =/= vasectomy
Now I just feel silly.
56287226 wrote:
I read over two hundred webcomics on a regular basis. "Terrible" doesn't even begin to describe me.
70246459 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I think that this is the first wizards-community thread that actually made me laugh out loud. Maraxas, I love you.
IMAGE(http://www.free-smiley-faces.de/free-animated-smileys_Smileys-animiert-kostenlos/free-animated-smiley-love_smiley-herz-animiert-kostenlos_250x250.gif)
58347268 wrote:
batman is a jerk in all of my dreams
mafia is fun so play it
I would say Dark Confidant would be good in here except if he is the only creature you play he will be delt with most likely.  I'm not used to this format, do DC's have "must kill" written on them?
I would say Dark Confidant would be good in here except if he is the only creature you play he will be delt with most likely.  I'm not used to this format, do DC's have "must kill" written on them?


Confidant's probably too slow for this deck. It does nothing the turn you go off, and seeing as you'll go off turn 3 or 4, a turn 2 Confidant'll only net you 1 or less cards. If it isn't killed.

Contest Winners
Random Words
Round 1: Maraxas-of-Keld, Cryos_Icy_Manipulator Round 2: Dr_Demento, UltraMaximum Round 3: Dr_Demento, Keino Round 4: KunouNoHana Round 5: Maraxas-of-Keld, Stigma_Lasher Round 6: royinator Round 7: forty2j Round 8: Qazior Round 9: Qazior Round 10: Could be you link
Split Cards
Winner: dberry02
Pac-Man
Round 1: Fallingman
Worldprism
Quotes
57051078 wrote:
I just love how focused the YMtC community is.
56901828 wrote:
That's what I love about posting on these forums. Everyone's an expert(except for me).
57031358 wrote:
really no need to be so bitchy.
58021268 wrote:
@Edacade: Awright kid you go on ahead and do your thing and don't let anyone tell you different y'hear
58335208 wrote:
City of Asymmetrical Beings Land :T:, sacrifice a creature: Destroy target creature with the same converted mana cost as the sacrificed creature.
56957928 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
Might I just interject that making this a meme is the worst idea in magic in my opinion. It is too overpowered. It encourages cheating it in play. Essentially 99/100 times it is cheated in play instead of hardcast. Not only that, but you essentially win when it comes into play.
74943291 wrote:
82512575 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Make five-color hybrid tribal instant with buyback, kicker, cycling, card draw, token production, a steal effect, alternate casting cost and landfall that embodies the love that your mom and I share.
I think you just killed all chances of my card being elegant. Ardency :1mana::symwu::symbr: Tribal Instant - Soldier You may have target opponent gain control of 3 permanents you control rather than pay ~'s mana cost. As an additional cost to cast ~, choose two creatures you control, and sacrifice the rest. If you control a soldier, you can't sacrifice permanents this turn. Landfall - If you had a land enter the battlefield under your control this turn, instead choose 4 creatures. Kicker You get an emblem with "As long as you control both chosen creatures, they have protection from everything." If ~ was kicked, creatures you control get +1/+1 for each creature card in your graveyard until end of turn. Cycling :2mana: When you cycle ~, put two 2/2 Soldier creatures onto the battlefield. Would this EVER fit on a card?~
Aside from a few wording mishaps (should say "each chosen creature" because it's not necessarily two) this is nice. Very simple and elegant. I like the alternate cost a lot, and the kicker goes nicely with the sacrifice. However, the cycling seems a bit powerful (4 power and a card for 3? Cycling is supposed be bad. 8/10 EDIT: Just looked up "ardency". Lol.
58347268 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
58325628 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I'm immortalized too as long as no one deletes this post!
But in the shadow of the great one lurked many who sought to partake of his eternal glory.
Since when am I "many"?
You're a whole damn city.
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Ahem.
58021268 wrote:
Vivisect Sorcery As an additional cost to cast Vivisect, sacrifice a creature. Draw three cards. "For the sake of humanity," the surgeon whispered. The knife had never felt heavier in his hand.
I don't think a world that sacrifices so much would want to stop the making of children .
Vivisect =/= vasectomy
Now I just feel silly.
56287226 wrote:
I read over two hundred webcomics on a regular basis. "Terrible" doesn't even begin to describe me.
70246459 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I think that this is the first wizards-community thread that actually made me laugh out loud. Maraxas, I love you.
IMAGE(http://www.free-smiley-faces.de/free-animated-smileys_Smileys-animiert-kostenlos/free-animated-smiley-love_smiley-herz-animiert-kostenlos_250x250.gif)
58347268 wrote:
batman is a jerk in all of my dreams
mafia is fun so play it
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