Force Adept Prerequisites and Force Traditions

Once again I’m appealing to the board. I’m the one who usually answers the questions, however today I have one. And please forgive me if this topic (or a similar one) is already on the forums. I performed several searches and nothing came up.


I will cut to the chase and ask the question strait up. Do the various Force Tradition Talents in chapter 6 of the SECR help one qualify for the Force adept PrC?


Originally I thought not. I only thought that the Force Talents on p.100-101 were the only talents that could meet these requirements. However after once again looking at the Dathomiri Witch stat block on p.11 of ToTG, this doesn’t seem to be the case. The Dathomiri Witch used her Force Tradition Talents to meet the prerequisites for the Force adept PrC.


Seeing that, I frantically looked all over the errata as well as through the SECR, and the only thing I could find in these sources that might justify this is the following sentence found on p.100 SECR. After talking about gaining Force talents and selecting them from the standard Force talent trees, the sentence in question states: “If a character with the Force Sensitivity feat is a member of a Force tradition (see p.106), he or she may instead select a Force talent from that tradition’s individual Force talent tree.”


Whether or not this might justify fulfilling the Force adept’s PrC requirements to me, remains vague at best. So please… could you guys help me find an answer to this?


Does this mean that after selecting three talents from the Jedi talent trees, that I meet the requirements for Force adept? After all they are talents from an individual Force Talent tree.

I am Red/White

Cutting out the fluff.
I will cut to the chase and ask the question strait up. Do the various Force Tradition Talents in chapter 6 of the SECR help one qualify for the Force adept PrC?

Originally I thought not. I only thought that the Force Talents on p.100-101 were the only talents that could meet these requirements. However after once again looking at the Dathomiri Witch stat block on p.11 of ToTG, this doesn’t seem to be the case. The Dathomiri Witch used her Force Tradition Talents to meet the prerequisites for the Force adept PrC.
...
Does this mean that after selecting three talents from the Jedi talent trees, that I meet the requirements for Force adept? After all they are talents from an individual Force Talent tree.


The talents you take from the various Force Traditions DO count towards qualifying for Force Adept.

Although I would be VERY careful with making any rule judgments based on the ToG stat blocks the Dathomiri Witch has the appropriate talents.  Note that the Force Adept on the previous ToG page does NOT qualify for Force Adept as it only has one Force Talent prior to entering the class (the other would have been gained with Force Adept) and is widely pointed to as a prime example of WotC's lack of quality control when it comes to stat blocks.

Where are these Jedi Talent trees you speak of?  I don't recall seeing a Jedi Tradion talent tree anywhere and the talent trees you see listed under Jedi are NOT Force Talent trees.  If it helps, remember that you must be Force Sensitive to get a talent in a Force talent tree and a talent in all of the trees listed under Jedi can be taken by someone who is NOT Force Sensitive (even though some of them would do no good.)

So Chapter 6 talents count towards entry into Force Adept but talents listed under Jedi do not.

Starting on p.103 SECR starts talking about the various Force using traditions. It then lists the Sith and the Jedi as two Force using traditions… then it lists the other Force traditions and their corresponding talent trees.


My second part of the question is, does this mean that the talent trees found on p.39-41 qualify as well towards meeting the Force adept PrC requirements? I’m guessing not because there is no “Jedi” or “Sith” Talent Tree. However… the two are listed under the Force using traditions section on p.103


I see that you have answered this in your response, however I am merely clarifying this statement in this post, in response to your inquiry.

I am Red/White

The Jedi Academy Training Manual spells it out in no uncertain terms that the various Force Tradition talent trees count as "Force Talents".
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Force tradition talents = Force talents. Therefore, they can be used to gain entry into Force adept. That's pretty much the whole point.

Also, while the Jedi Order is a Force tradition, the talent trees found under the "Jedi" class are not considered Force talents. Only the talents in Chapter 6: The Force (and in corresponding sections of supplements) are considered Force talents.

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I am Red/White

...

there is no “Jedi” or “Sith” Talent Tree. ...




There is a "Sith" talent tree under the Sith Apprentice Prestige Class, though it does not count as a Force talent tree or a Force Tradition talent tree.
As a rule of thumb, if the talent is substituting your class talent, it is a Force Talent and will count towards qualifying for Force Adept.
As a rule of thumb, if the talent is substituting your class talent, it is a Force Talent and will count towards qualifying for Force Adept.



This is a good rule of thumb.
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As a rule of thumb, if the talent is substituting your class talent, and you are not Vong or a droid, it is a Force Talent and will count towards qualifying for Force Adept.



Fixed to make it 100% accurate.
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As a rule of thumb, if the talent is substituting your class talent, and you are not Vong or a droid, it is a Force Talent and will count towards qualifying for Force Adept.


Fixed to make it 100% accurate.


I don't see the fix unless there are some talents somewhere that a YV can take in place of "normal" class talents.  Even then neither a YV or droid will be able to meet the "Feat: Force Sensitivity" and "Trained Skill: UtF" prereqs needed to enter Force Adept.

The condition that the talent must substitute a class talent can be fulfilled by the droid talents from the Force Unleashed Campaign Guide and the Scavenger's Guide to Droids. With those talents you could construct a situation that would satisfy the parameters of the first version of the quote. Of course, a droid couldn't be Force-sensitive and thus couldn't enter the Force adept class, but someone who isn't all that familiar with the system might not consider that.


EDIT: To make clear what I actually meant: whether a talent can take the place of a class talent isn't a reliable indicator of whether it's a Force talent or not.

It works as a general rule.  I can't think of any exceptions at present aside from those of the Droid talents which are obviously not Force talents.  In the future they may add organic species talents, and if and when they do, the rule will be busted, but up to now it is pretty reliable.

After all, there aren't that many Vong and Droids pursuing the Force Adept class.
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