12/16/2009 BoaB: "Standard, with Flare"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

Wow what happened to BUDGET? The cheapest version of Time Warp is the M10 one. In paper, it's around $7 each, and on Magic Online it's about $10 each.
Thoughts on including a singleton Plains alongside the Terramorphics and putting in a few Silence?  Just something that struck me as useful generally alongside the Mine/Font plan.
Hmmm...the 8 copies of into the Roil seems a little...illegal.  This reminds me of the building on a budget weeks back were firespout was in a standard deck...after it had rotated out Laughing.
Thoughts on including a singleton Plains alongside the Terramorphics and putting in a few Silence?  Just something that struck me as useful generally alongside the Mine/Font plan.



I run the Turbo-Fog and Silence is (pardon the pun) golden. Splashing white would give you more removal against Vamps as well, which I suspect will be even more dangerous come Feburuary. Mind Sludge kills turbo decks.

About Telemin Performance: Sphinx of Lost Truths? They draw three, and you get them for the Runeflare. Not sure if you can stack the trap while they have the three in their hand, maybe someone can clue me in?

Another alternative I've been kicking around for this deck (saw a variety of it sporting Swerve back in November) is going Grixis (U/R/B) with it for Kederekt Parasite, which Burst Lightning and Bolt can kill if they Telemin you. Direct damage gets a big lead foot on its gas pedal from Howling Mine and Font, so KP gives them another target rather than your face, too.

You can board Mind Funeral and Archive Trap for a backup mill plan. Twincasting a Funeral against a deck with a fetchland mana base or Kor Cartographer/Knight of the White Orchid is stellar.
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Why do i feel like there should be trapfinder's snares in here
Why do i feel like there should be trapfinder's snares in here



Because there should be.

The deck is good, but seriously? WTF with Telemin Performance. I am shocked how much sideboard action that card is getting and am really glad I play creatures.

I wish the test games would have been against non-fringe decks. My meta, and by my meta I mean the 3 places I play consist of:

White Weenie (I play soldiers, so yummy)
Boros
Jund
Naya Lightsaber clones
Vampires
Eldrazi Green
Dredge
Jacearator

So, seeing the fringe decks like Grixis/Cruel Control and Mono-White Enchantments isn't exactly helpful in gaging the deck
old quotes from the Worldwake talk: Mike Turian: While Mark Rosewater made Tarmogoyf, I made Tarmogoyf what he is today Mark Rosewater: Would we ever reprint Tarmogoyf? Maybe.

I am Blue/Green


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174 How many of your friendships have lasted more than ten years? Which of your current friendships do you still feel will be important to you ten years from now?

I've been playing UR Runeflare for a few months now, and I must say that Jace is ridiculous for the archetype. He's another mine effect, which helps the redundancy of the deck and lets you play fewer Fonts (I'm currently playing 4 Mine, 3 Jace, 3 Font and it seems about right).

He also lets you have an alternate mill plan in case your Runeflares get Duressed or the opponent gains a lot of life. Since you're +2ing him most of the time, he gets to high loyalty quickly (at my last FNM I had him at 21, with no Runeflares left; Jace ultimate, Time Warp, second Jace ultimate milled for exactsies).

I also recommend some number of Unstable Footing in the sideboard, as they help a lot against the Fog decks that are otherwise tough. (Another fine option against these decks is Pyromancer Ascension.)


I also recommend some number of Unstable Footing in the sideboard, as they help a lot against the Fog decks that are otherwise tough. (Another fine option against these decks is Pyromancer Ascension.)



 --broken record alert--
You can also Twincast and Swerve their Archive trap if you have your own. Or Mind Funeral if you splash black. 

Side note: I also board Telemin in Turbo-Fog as a 1-of for the mirror since I've yet to run into the Baneslayer Angel version of the deck. Getting or giving a milling for 40+ cards is haaaaaarsh.
You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what I create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
I think the play in game 3 of the last match was wrong.  You keep the mana up and don't let your opponent draw into more cards off Font (potentially including Telemin Performance), maybe they'll make a bad play on the mere assumption you have a counter.  If you're dead either way, give your opponent the chance to make a mistake instead of telegraphing to them that you don't have an answer.

Also, just what are those Into the Roil #5-8 really supposed to be?
The end is always nigh.


Also, just what are those Into the Roil #5-8 really supposed to be?



Pretty sure its the deck signature spell Runeflare Trap.

-Silence seems really good, especially if we're already using Terra Ex in the mana base. But what 3-4 cards should we take out?

-As for the Telemin Performance, mabye include a singleton Clone or Caldera Helion in the SB? Sure you will be milled for a whole lot, but at turn 5, you should be pretty close to sealing the game with this deck.


-ps. Only got to the wizards boards resontly, is there an easy way to insert card links? the old [c][/c] dosnt seem to work.

I think the play in game 3 of the last match was wrong.  You keep the mana up and don't let your opponent draw into more cards off Font (potentially including Telemin Performance), maybe they'll make a bad play on the mere assumption you have a counter.  If you're dead either way, give your opponent the chance to make a mistake instead of telegraphing to them that you don't have an answer.

Also, just what are those Into the Roil #5-8 really supposed to be?



It's really a crapshoot either way. If he has or draws the Telemin Performance, leaving mana open will make it more likely for him to hold it back. But then the game devolves into whether you can draw a counter before he decides to go for it, with him possibly drawing counters or more Performances in the meantime. If he wouldn't draw the card, on the other hand, you've given up your chance to capitalize and win right away next turn.

As for the typo, it's pretty clear that the missing card is Runeflare Trap.
Thoughts on including a singleton Plains alongside the Terramorphics and putting in a few Silence?  Just something that struck me as useful generally alongside the Mine/Font plan.



I run the Turbo-Fog and Silence is (pardon the pun) golden. Splashing white would give you more removal against Vamps as well, which I suspect will be even more dangerous come Feburuary. Mind Sludge kills turbo decks.

About Telemin Performance: Sphinx of Lost Truths? They draw three, and you get them for the Runeflare. Not sure if you can stack the trap while they have the three in their hand, maybe someone can clue me in?

Another alternative I've been kicking around for this deck (saw a variety of it sporting Swerve back in November) is going Grixis (U/R/B) with it for Kederekt Parasite, which Burst Lightning and Bolt can kill if they Telemin you. Direct damage gets a big lead foot on its gas pedal from Howling Mine and Font, so KP gives them another target rather than your face, too.

You can board Mind Funeral and Archive Trap for a backup mill plan. Twincasting a Funeral against a deck with a fetchland mana base or Kor Cartographer/Knight of the White Orchid is stellar.


You can't put spells on the stack in the middle of the resolution of Sphinx. You can't have them draw three, burn with the Trap, and then have them discard three. You would have to wait until Sphinx resolves.
this is a good deck, extra points for the johnnyness factor!

obviously good vs eldrazi green. I can see this deck blowing away jund and vampires.

I just did a mockup match against my white weenie deck but white weenie was able to drop everything and eventually start getting hits in. I assume Boros bushwhacher is also a bad matchup hence the Pyroclasm sideboard. Pyroclasm wont work against white weenie though because of brave the elements and honor of the pure.

Perhaps Whiplash Trap is a good sideboard option.

I've been playing UR Runeflare for a few months now, and I must say that Jace is ridiculous for the archetype. He's another mine effect, which helps the redundancy of the deck and lets you play fewer Fonts (I'm currently playing 4 Mine, 3 Jace, 3 Font and it seems about right).



Surely Jace doesn't help the deck's principal condition, because you need to make them draw 3 in a turn to get the traps for cheap? Font of Mythos is great because it makes them draw 2 on their turn, giving you the Runeflare condition straight away. I can't see how Jace helps with that, though obviously he helps fill up their hand a bit for when you do get to cast your traps.

And yeah, I'd think to have 1-2 creatures in the SB against Telemin Performance if it's a reasonably common sideboard card.



You know, this deck actually reminds me of my Quick On The Draw casual deck. It uses Teferi's Puzzle Box, along with things like Wheel and Deal and Whirlpool Warrior, to make opponents draw about 18 cards in one turn, then burns them out with the awesome Izzet Johnnyrare Cerebral Vortex. Runeflare's condition would be easily met in that deck, but it wouldn't do as much damage as Cerebral Vortex. But perhaps I should find a Font of Mythos or two for that deck
Anyway, fun article
I'll be honest I just priced the rares only for MTGO and I'm sorry but this deck is like $68 for rares alone.   If I'm spending 68 dollars I might as well just buy something like boros bushwhacker.
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
I'll be honest I just priced the rares only for MTGO and I'm sorry but this deck is like $68 for rares alone.   If I'm spending 68 dollars I might as well just buy something like boros bushwhacker.


Yeah... good luck with that. Boros Bushwacker sports 12 fetchlands.
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I have played against this deck a few times in the Casual room, against my casual mono-black aggro deck.  I think I lost on turn 5 each time.  One time the opponent won, even through a Mind Shatter, which didn't nab anything he needed to win.  So yeah, it is difficult for a traditional deck to beat this.  I think the only types of deck that would beat this very readily would be: 1) a mono-red deck, one that is capable of burning out the opponent by turn 5 2) A rock deck with multiple (at least 8) ways of destroying artifacts before turn 5 3) A legitimate control deck with a pleothora of counters.  So it is a good deck.

One suggestion that I have is to cut down some of the 4-ofs in order to make room for 3X Jace.  I wouldn't cut Font of Mythos for Jace, because the deck needs the fonts.  But as someone already mentioned, Jace helps because it can act as howling mines and provides an alternate win-con in the form of mill. 

As far as being able to have answers to Telemin Performance, I don't think putting a few powerful creatures (such as Sphinx) in the side is the best answer.  That just gives your opponent a Sphinx.  The best way to beat Telemin Performance, I think, is having counters.  You don't want the Telemin Performance to go off, even if you sided in a couple creatures, because for all you know the Telemin will still mill you down to a few cards and you will lose on your next draw step.  Either that, or side in a creature that hurts your opponent, although I can't think of anything off the top of my head.   Something like Desolation Giant would be cool, but it's not in standard.


My beef is that I have played against this a few times in the Casual room already.  Now I know that Jacob gave credit to the player he played against, but even Jacob admitted that he didn't invent this deck, so this article doesn't strike me as being particularly creative.  The article was ambigious as to whether Jacob made any substantive changes at all, so really it could just me a carbon copy of some deck he played against online, which we have already seen.  Additionally, this deck costs over $100.  As someone else mentioned, Budget Boros Bushwacker costs less.  Mono-red costs less.  Vampires arguably costs less, depending on where you buy your Vampire Nocturnus's, because it runs all basic swamps.  Many legitimate tier 1 decks cost less.  If the deck runs 3 copies of Jace then it will be even more expensive.

I am at a loss as to why this would be considered to be an original budget deck, because it is neither original nor budget.
I'll be honest I just priced the rares only for MTGO and I'm sorry but this deck is like $68 for rares alone.   If I'm spending 68 dollars I might as well just buy something like boros bushwhacker.


Yeah... good luck with that. Boros Bushwacker sports 12 fetchlands.



You can sub the rare fetchlands for Terramorphic Expanse and Naya Panorama.  It slows the deck down a bit, but it makes it a legitimate budget deck, without losing its core.  Also, the fetchlands are lands (duh), so forseeably you have them from making other decks.  The most expensive cards in this deck are cards I most likely would not buy otherwise.
Well I would swap out the second set of roils for Kraken hatchling, a one cost zero 4 can help block if necessary and would give your opponent a 0/4 should he steal it no real threat.
The second set of roils is supposed to be ruinflare traps (your bread and butter).

If you didn't want to build this deck on a budget and wanted to make it more effectivive for tourney/FNM play what choices would you make?

Swaping in 4 Scalding Tarns?
Adding in 3 copies of Jace?

Any other key components to the sidedeck or main deck without considering price?

Not really . . . I have played against this deck before, with and without Jace, and Jace didn't really seem to help all that much.  I would still run Jace, partially because I have many copies, but it isn't necessary.  One can always spend more money on the mana base, but it isn't necessary.  This is basically already the non-budget version of the deck, running: Time Warp (an expensive rare), Font of Mythos and Twincast (moderately-costed rare), and many uncommons that are more expensive than average uncommons.
My beef is that I have played against this a few times in the Casual room already.  Now I know that Jacob gave credit to the player he played against, but even Jacob admitted that he didn't invent this deck, so this article doesn't strike me as being particularly creative.

I am at a loss as to why this would be considered to be an original budget deck, because it is neither original nor budget.

Welcome to Building on a Budget as written by Jacob van Lunen.  Frown
Don't you ever think that this is real ****'ed up BUDGET which do worser than the real budget?

Put in Pyromancer's Ascension, Black mana, Kederekts and 2-3 Cruels.
Put out Time Warp, Jaces, Twincasts if they are too expensive 4 u.
And  you'll have real deck which really kills.

Deck with 8 copies of Into the Roil can do nothing! Yell
Well, forgetting the mistakes in the article (like the 8 Into the Roils) I have to say I really liked this deck. I don't mind if it's not original, I liked the idea and I think the article was worth reading.
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57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
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Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
I found the best way to counter Telemin is Quest for Ancient Secrets. It's easy to throw down with its U casting cost and the decks that would side in Telemin usually dont have an answer for it when its on the board. Won me multiple games vs Jacerator.
I like the idea of splashing white into this for silence as it can be a huge difference in the first couple turns, especially against RDW and Boros. I still think RDW would probably whoop it, but would liek to actually see it in action against Boros, RDW and Jacerator.

In a non-budget version, I was thinking of adding 1 plains, 4 arid mesa to the deck. Taking out the ponders for 4 silence. Gonna try it out casually and see how it works.

I also like the idea of adding Quest of the Ancient Secrets into the side deck to combat Telemin Performance and Jacerator.

I would probably take out 1 double negative and 2 pyroclasm for 3 quest of ancient secrets in the SD. Or perhaps only run 2 Quest of Ancient Secrets in SD, not sure yet. I just don't see you needing to add 4 pyroclasm AND 1 volcanic fallout against any deck in this match-up.
i really liked the deck a lot. an interesting take on the turbofog deck (turbofog without the fog!).

to everyone who is saying "not original" in the thread to every article he writes: get over it. he gives credit, he tweaks it. he's interested in decks that can compete, and from that premise if he built every deck from scratch he would just be being arrogant about his own deck building. he builds some on his own, he adapts others. since most people who play standard NEVER build their own decks anyway i think that's pretty good.
I like this column for the deck ideas it discusses, be they original or not, and the way they are discussed.

Budget? Not this week.
May I ask what the Grixis control was playing main/side?
I'd like to see the matchup vs. Jund... you know, the most heavily played archtype right now?  I'd be curious how it plays out.
May I ask what the Grixis control was playing main/side?

Assuming Jacob was playing on MTGO agaisnt strangers, unless he asked the guy for his list, which is improbable since Grixis Control is a known quantity, it's quite possible that he doesn't know much more about it than the cards he mentionned were played against him.

The Grixis control archetype seems to be successful at the moment, placing 2 players in the top 8 of the last Starcity 5k tournament, something I feared control decks maybe wouldn't be able to do in the Jund metagame. The lists for that top 8 are here.

None of those 2 players played Blightning. I suspect the list Jacob faced was a homebrew one, but we'll never know unless the guy happens to post on these boards.

Magic The Gathering DCI Lvl 1 Judge Don't hesitate to post rules question in the Rules Q&A forum for me and other competent advisors to answer : http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75842/134778/Rules_Q38A
Here are my two cents,

I'm pretty new to MTGO and have been playing the paper version for a few years when I was younger, so first of all, I really like most of the ideas Jacob presents every week and I think its really respectable if someone tries to put his knowledge and experience together to present an interesting thought for all you guys out there,maybe this Deck is a bit over budget for some people to qualify as an "Building on a Budget Deck" but honestly compared to an $800 Rubin Zoo Deck these ideas are "Budget".

So maybe you should give the guy more credit and see the whole thing from the perspective that you get something to work with, instead of beating someone up verbally for a minor fault in the decklist or that he didn't invent the deck etc.

What most people really forget when posting comments here is that Jacob just presents an idea he thinks is worth getting picked up, and transformed into something new, fun and competitive by all you guys here.

I put Jacobs list together and had around 30 games today with it and it really packs some punch and is a fun concept to play.

I don't know if I am allowed to record games and put them up for people to view but I had some great matches against decks worth at least 200 bucks more than this, one alone including 4 Lotus Cobras and 4 Baneslayer besides all kind of fancy stuff.

The decklist on its own is really nice to play, it's fun and it has tricky decisions for both players which makes it a fun deck to play with and against.

I started tweaking it a bit and put a set of Quest of Ancient Secrets in the sideboard, which works great against mill decks and I am also experimenting with a set of Magosi, the Waterveil in the Main deck which turned out to be really useful.

You can play it on Turn 1/2 with an Island and add a counter to it giving you an extra turn as soon as you got your draw engine running or whenever you need it, it works also great in combination with Time Warp, you add a counter, cast a Time warp and you got a free Time warp for whenever you might see use in it without spending any mana.

I had a few situations where this came in really handy and an additional turn brought me a twincast and Runetrap flare with a Font up to end the game pretty quickly.

Against Jund I had a few Spreading Seas sided in, I really don't know what to cut yet, but to turn a few savage lands into islands gives you some extra turns in the early game most of the time.

Give this deck a shot if you are one of the thinking players and already have the key cards to the deck or are willing to spend a few tix on it.

As said, just my two cents. Looking forward to your small card additions that could help the deck.

Cheers.



I'd like to see the matchup vs. Jund... you know, the most heavily played archtype right now?  I'd be curious how it plays out.


I built a non-budget version of this deck last night and played it against:

Vampires
Jund
Jacerator
Mill

It whalloped Jund and Vampires. Consistantly time warping on turn 5 and again on turn 6 to fill the hand with death and destruction.  Vampires won 1 game in 6.  Jund never won a game.   Jund was such a whipping due to having about 16 dead cards in hand that just SAT there waiting to be trapped, that even after sideboard, it was an arse whopping.  Judn routinely shot its own creatures to try and live another game.  Vampires were much more effective due to wiennie rushing tactics.  A bit more sweep removal from Red from the sideboard results in auto-loss.

I took out the twincasts and added in negate maindeck.  I also made room for 2 trapmakers snare, plus added money by swapping the terramorphics for actual fetch lands.  The untapped mana is a big issue for a consistant turn 5 warp.



So I replaced the 4 Time Warps with 4 Trapmaster's Snares and built this deck on MTGO for around 30 tix (had playsets of some of the commons like Lightning Bolt and Burst Lightning already, but had to buy the rares). It does decently in the casual room I think, though I usually play more aggro decks so I may not be the best person to evaluate it.

I was considering adding 1-4 Magosi, the Waterveil to the deck, to make up for the lack of Warps. Any thoughts?
Here are my two cents,

I'm pretty new to MTGO and have been playing the paper version for a few years when I was younger, so first of all, I really like most of the ideas Jacob presents every week and I think its really respectable if someone tries to put his knowledge and experience together to present an interesting thought for all you guys out there,maybe this Deck is a bit over budget for some people to qualify as an "Building on a Budget Deck" but honestly compared to an $800 Rubin Zoo Deck these ideas are "Budget".

So maybe you should give the guy more credit and see the whole thing from the perspective that you get something to work with, instead of beating someone up verbally for a minor fault in the decklist or that he didn't invent the deck etc.

What most people really forget when posting comments here is that Jacob just presents an idea he thinks is worth getting picked up, and transformed into something new, fun and competitive by all you guys here.

I put Jacobs list together and had around 30 games today with it and it really packs some punch and is a fun concept to play.

I don't know if I am allowed to record games and put them up for people to view but I had some great matches against decks worth at least 200 bucks more than this, one alone including 4 Lotus Cobras and 4 Baneslayer besides all kind of fancy stuff.

The decklist on its own is really nice to play, it's fun and it has tricky decisions for both players which makes it a fun deck to play with and against.

I started tweaking it a bit and put a set of Quest of Ancient Secrets in the sideboard, which works great against mill decks and I am also experimenting with a set of Magosi, the Waterveil in the Main deck which turned out to be really useful.

You can play it on Turn 1/2 with an Island and add a counter to it giving you an extra turn as soon as you got your draw engine running or whenever you need it, it works also great in combination with Time Warp, you add a counter, cast a Time warp and you got a free Time warp for whenever you might see use in it without spending any mana.

I had a few situations where this came in really handy and an additional turn brought me a twincast and Runetrap flare with a Font up to end the game pretty quickly.

Against Jund I had a few Spreading Seas sided in, I really don't know what to cut yet, but to turn a few savage lands into islands gives you some extra turns in the early game most of the time.

Give this deck a shot if you are one of the thinking players and already have the key cards to the deck or are willing to spend a few tix on it.

As said, just my two cents. Looking forward to your small card additions that could help the deck.

Cheers.






I think about this every time I read Jacob's articles. I used to read Ben's old BoaB column religeously and, like many people, have been dissappointed with how Jacob seemingly flippantly and randomly disregards the Budget part of the name of his article.

With that said, Jacob usually gives us an intersting article and I no longer come to this column for budget builds, but for interesting builds. I'm not sure which comment prompted your lengthy defense of Jacob, for a JVL article the criticism contained herein is quite constructive, but I have to completely agree with most of what you seem to be saying.

Those who loved the old BoaB should move on as I have from expecting a budget article out of JVL every week (granted, he sometimes still delivers a very cheap and effective deck) and just come for a well-written and magic-themed deck building article.

A lingering suggestion I'd offer, however, is to create a new article space for Jacob. Call it Building Interesting Decks with Jacob, or something. Then go ahead and bring someone in with an interest in making budget decks who can write a similarly well-constructed article.

I'd like to see the matchup vs. Jund... you know, the most heavily played archtype right now?  I'd be curious how it plays out.


I built a non-budget version of this deck last night and played it against:

Vampires
Jund
Jacerator
Mill

It whalloped Jund and Vampires. Consistantly time warping on turn 5 and again on turn 6 to fill the hand with death and destruction.  Vampires won 1 game in 6.  Jund never won a game.   Jund was such a whipping due to having about 16 dead cards in hand that just SAT there waiting to be trapped, that even after sideboard, it was an arse whopping.  Judn routinely shot its own creatures to try and live another game.  Vampires were much more effective due to wiennie rushing tactics.  A bit more sweep removal from Red from the sideboard results in auto-loss.

I took out the twincasts and added in negate maindeck.  I also made room for 2 trapmakers snare, plus added money by swapping the terramorphics for actual fetch lands.  The untapped mana is a big issue for a consistant turn 5 warp.






I tried this deck out last night at my local card store after making some non-budget modifications.

Here is what I did:

Maindeck
-2 islands +2 Magosi, the waterveil
-4 Terramorphic Expanse +4 Scalding Tarn
-4 Ponder +4 Spreading Seas (still provides +1 card advantage and hurts multicolor decks)
-2 Twincast +2 Trapmaker's Snare (still not sure how I feel about this change after playing)

SD
2 Flashfreeze
3 Quest of the Ancient
4 Negate
3 Essence Scatter
3 Unstable Footing

I played against:

Jund, Vamps, Naya Zoo, Jacerator, and RDW

I really like the spreading seas addition against multicolor decks as it does slow them down considerably. Against mono-color decks I SD out the spreading seas and go for essence scatters to slow down their early creature deployment. This worked extremely well against vamps.

Jund and zoo really struggled against this version of the deck. Against Jund I was able ot get out magosi and spreading seas within the first three turns which really hurt them and ended up stalling them for about two extra turns.

I was able to kill Jund and Zoo easily btw the 5th-7th turn consistently. Vamps were more of a challenge but did not win a match against me. However, out of two matches, Vamps were able to take it to game 3 both times.

Jacerator is extremely challenging until you SD. In fact, winning the first game seemed almost impossible against Jacerator. After heavilly sidedecking, the game evened out and actually saw Jacerator struggle. Quest of the Ancients, negates, and unstable footing pretty much seals the deal against Jacerator. You definately do not need the time warps against Jacerator as you will be drawing an insane amount of cards. Spreading seas wrecked havok on Jacerator as I took away their white mana base early and as often as I drew the card.

RDW remains the toughest match-up IMO. This is another deck this will struggle against consistently. Out of 3 matches I only won 1 match against RDW. If RDW goes first you will be in trouble. If you can manage to stall RDW for the first 4 rounds without taking much damage, your win probability sky rockets. I may have side decked incorrectly against this deck and will try it out again tonight with a different strategy.

Overall, I am quite impressed with this deck and actually like it MUCH better then turbo fog.
Those who loved the old BoaB should move on as I have from expecting a budget article out of JVL every week (granted, he sometimes still delivers a very cheap and effective deck) and just come for a well-written and magic-themed deck building article.

A lingering suggestion I'd offer, however, is to create a new article space for Jacob. Call it Building Interesting Decks with Jacob, or something. Then go ahead and bring someone in with an interest in making budget decks who can write a similarly well-constructed article.



i understand that you're not being hostile but i feel compelled to point out that suggesting that jvl is not working on a budget is simply inaccurate. this deck has one somewhat expensive rare, and it should cost you 20-25 dollars to get a playset (you know, the same as or less than what it would cost for a singleton or two of several current tournament staples) and all the other rares are cheap. there are no fetchlands, even though the deck would benefit from them. the deck is clearly built with budget in mind. it isn't YOUR budget, but that doesn't mean it isn't budget. this has been pointed out (approximately) a million times on jvl's boab threads (and in some of his articles). his budget is different than the previous boab authors, and different than a lot of previous boab readers. this is understandably a reason for some of those readers to enjoy his column less, as they have different expectation and different preferences than the current author. but it is not a reason for the word budget to suddenly mean something other than what it actually means.
Those who loved the old BoaB should move on as I have from expecting a budget article out of JVL every week (granted, he sometimes still delivers a very cheap and effective deck) and just come for a well-written and magic-themed deck building article.

A lingering suggestion I'd offer, however, is to create a new article space for Jacob. Call it Building Interesting Decks with Jacob, or something. Then go ahead and bring someone in with an interest in making budget decks who can write a similarly well-constructed article.



i understand that you're not being hostile but i feel compelled to point out that suggesting that jvl is not working on a budget is simply inaccurate. this deck has one somewhat expensive rare, and it should cost you 20-25 dollars to get a playset (you know, the same as or less than what it would cost for a singleton or two of several current tournament staples) and all the other rares are cheap. there are no fetchlands, even though the deck would benefit from them. the deck is clearly built with budget in mind. it isn't YOUR budget, but that doesn't mean it isn't budget. this has been pointed out (approximately) a million times on jvl's boab threads (and in some of his articles). his budget is different than the previous boab authors, and different than a lot of previous boab readers. this is understandably a reason for some of those readers to enjoy his column less, as they have different expectation and different preferences than the current author. but it is not a reason for the word budget to suddenly mean something other than what it actually means.



Yeah I completely I agree with that. It's something I've also thought about before, but clearly didnt mention in my thoughts earlier. He's definitely taking budget into account, just not my budget. I sometimes forget what other people are willing to pay for the top-flight tourney cards, and JVL definitely avoids the baneslayer angels of the world. I even admitted earlier when I was being less measured with my comments that he can occasionally meet the old standard for budget decks.

The point that I believe remains unaddressed, however, is that those like me are left without an article that caters to cheap-skates like me on the main site. It's something that I've gotten over and it has compelled me to look for that content elsewhere, which I've found. People like me , however, will continue to come out of the woodwork when decks, like this one, absolutely dwarf our expectations for a budget deck. And as long as we don't whine too loudly it's a good thing that we continue to voice our displeasure.

And I'll say it once more politely and just for the record: JVL's writing is excellent and the column still holds some value for me, but he frequently misses my and many others' expectations for a budget build.

The point that I believe remains unaddressed, however, is that those like me are left without an article that caters to cheap-skates like me on the main site.



and prior to him writing the column, people like me were left without an article that built decks with serious competition in mind that cost a lot less than your average tournament list. either way, someone is left without the article they'd prefer. i am willing to bet you'll get back your budgetier column sooner or later. these things change from time to time, and different people get the column they want while others lose it. such is the way of the world.
I think Magosi would be perfectly fine to replace Time Warp. If you skip an early turn, you probably won't be too far behind most decks. The upside is you are basically trading just one early turn, for a late game turn that will probably win you the game. Also, you don't have to pay the 5 mana to get the extra turn, so you get 2 full turns instead of a turn with 5 less mana and then a full turn. The downside is that you can't do something like twin cast it, or make them take another turn.