Blade Spider Nerfed?

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Hey Guys,

I've finally saved up enough cash to buy myself a Blade Spider for my LFR character, am I safe buying it or is it going to be nerfed wasting me me 13000gp? 

Cheers,

Daniel.
It hasn't been nerfed yet.  If you can, wait until Tuesday.  That's when the next errata will probably be out.
The mount power is essentially an at-will add-on to your melee attacks that allows you to weaken and add ongoing poison damage your target. It looks like it is about a 1d8 +10 damage with each hit (it's +5 with 5 ongoing), and at +13 to-hit that's about the to-hit for most level 10 characters. (+5 attribute + 5 level + 2 to 3 enchantment + 1 to 3 proficiency).

So, it will not scale damage as the character rises in level and to-hit is static. Thus it is close to the at-will damage and to-hit for many characters at level 10, but the weakening is an at-will power rather than an encounter or daily which the rest of the character powers in the compendium from level 10-19 are.

Personally, I'd give it 50% chance of becoming an encounter power rather than an at-will. Since it is a static to-hit bonus, it will be a nice power at Level 10, but not very nice after about level 15-16, which is probably what you'd expect from a weapon or item as well.

If you see a lot of the other players taking blade spiders though, chances are folks consider it too powerful to pass up and that might be a good indication that it is going to be changed.
+13 the average to hit at 10th?  If you are +13 vs AC at 10 you are going to be a very frustrated player.  Not saying the blade spider power is not overpowered, but +13 is pretty bad, certainly not average.

If you started with a 16 attack stat you'd have 4 for stat by 10 5 for level 2 for enchantment and 2 proficiency minimum giving you at least 13, basically the lowest possible to hit for a 10th level character vs AC who was not deliberately making bad choices. If you actually care about hitting or have optimized for a stat you are at 5 or 6 for stat, 5 for level 2 or 3 enchantment 2 or 3 proficiency and expertise for 1 more.  So 15-18 to hit, or possibly 16-19 if you are a fighter or a rogue with the right weapons etc.
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ibixat, I would suppose you're the sort to believe that "average" means "best" ... at least when it comes to D&D. I am not one to hyperoptimize, and I showed my work. So if you're assuming a starting stat of 20 at level 1 (+5), all stat bumps possible (+1), the max choice of all feats (+1) and weapons (+3 enh. +3 proficiency = +6) to maximize your to-hit, then with your half-level (+5), sure, you're going to get a +18. But that isn't average. That's max. And I might even have missed something in there.

For the record, my Paladin at 10 had a +14 to-hit. And he did okay. If he'd chosen a +2 proficiency weapon instead of a +3, he'd be at +13. And yes, he had a 17 in his starting stat. Oh noes, look out, Ise a bad player.

It is probably an extremely safe assumption that the blade spider will be nerfed in the exactly same way as the giant lizard. I don't know that it will happen in a couple days, or if it'll happen in January, but I'd probably estimate the chance of it happening as approaching 100% given the overwhelming Giant Lizard evidence ;)
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
ibixat, I would suppose you're the sort to believe that "average" means "best" ... at least when it comes to D&D. I am not one to hyperoptimize, and I showed my work. So if you're assuming a starting stat of 20 at level 1 (+5), all stat bumps possible (+1), the max choice of all feats (+1) and weapons (+3 enh. +3 proficiency = +6) to maximize your to-hit, then with your half-level (+5), sure, you're going to get a +18. But that isn't average. That's max. And I might even have missed something in there.

For the record, my Paladin at 10 had a +14 to-hit. And he did okay. If he'd chosen a +2 proficiency weapon instead of a +3, he'd be at +13. And yes, he had a 17 in his starting stat. Oh noes, look out, Ise a bad player.




I'm not saying you're a bad player, I'm saying a 13 is basically the minimum attack roll of a level 10 character vs ac with a weapon, NOT the average, that was all.

Starting stat 16: +3, two stat bumps: +1, half level: +5, plus 2 weapon: +2, proficiency: +2, that gets you  a 13 to hit bonus and that is basically the lowest you can get without less than a 16 starting stat(which if you do that, you are deliberately making poor choices either for a specific reason or lack of knowing any better).  So 13 is NOT average, to me average is what the word means in english, not the lowest possible you can get without actively trying to get it lower.  +13 is the lowest to hit vs ac with a weapon you can get at 10, barring intentional lowering of that value.

I said that if you cared about hitting or optimizing your stat you'd have a 15-18 to hit, and a rogue or fighter would get 16-19 due to the weapon talents.  I never said those were the averages, I never implied they were, and as you point out that's the maximum (19) I point out 13 is the minimum.  Which leaves average right around 15-17 depending on class and other choices. 
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If the spider isn't nerfed, it should be.
+13 vs AC is low at 10, let alone at 11/12/13.  It won't hit frequently, but it will hit, and when it does it will have a large impact on an encounter.  
It is most broken with multi-attackers; Fighters and Rangers.

Blade Spider + Twin Strike = who cares if your pet only hits on a 15 or higher.

Even with this taken away it's still an awesome mount.  Having a mount that thrives in small spaces is worth it all by itself.  Spider Climb as a movement mode is pure gravy.
If the spider isn't nerfed, it should be.
+13 vs AC is low at 10, let alone at 11/12/13.  It won't hit frequently, but it will hit, and when it does it will have a large impact on an encounter.  
It is most broken with multi-attackers; Fighters and Rangers.

Blade Spider + Twin Strike = who cares if your pet only hits on a 15 or higher.

Even with this taken away it's still an awesome mount.  Having a mount that thrives in small spaces is worth it all by itself.  Spider Climb as a movement mode is pure gravy.



Like I said before I agree with you the power is too powerful, it should be at best an encounter power, or I'd prefer a reliable Daily... 
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I'd go with it as an encounter power... recasting it as a daily is pretty rough unless the accuracy is increased.

 At the very least, restrict it to once per round.
 
Cheers Guys,

I'll hold of for the moment then. Hmm I wonder if there any other good mounts that are unlikely to be nerfed?

Daniel.
It missed the nerf bat this time.  I'd still say it's worth it even if they do take away the attack effect.  Its mobility is that good.

Dire Wolf is another good option, giving you CA whenever an ally is adjacent to your target.
I just love being able to perch on the ceiling and cast from there.

Though the wizard character in question has stopped wearing skirts. It's difficult to target when the skirt has flipped over her head due to being upside-down, and the whole effect is rather distracting to the party.



-np
LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric