Flags

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Are there any flags out there of different nations? I did a half-hearted search a week or so ago but it was half-hearted.
well at one time there were seals of some of the cities of the Realms, their Flags if they had any would mirror the seal of the city
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I think the 15th century realms make a great era for the initial developement of the identities of nations. This could be expressed by a steady increase in flag use and its heraldic meaning. This would indicate a more Renaissance feel to the whole setting. A distinct emphasis on exploratory efforts of the fearunians might work in favor of a more controlled heraldric system.

In earlier editions most of fearuns flags where supported by smaller groups such as clans, clergies, mercenary companies and other regional organisations. A nations cost to maintain distinctly marked borders and produce and plant flags on them was too high in most cases. Probably the widespread use of flags made it hard for nations to have truely recognisable one, with most designs already in use by some minor group.

If you like a more Dark Age tone to your setting I would definately go for a meriad of flags and signs belonging to scattered groups in Fearun. The lack of a fast reliable continental communication system always will prevent a reliable system of flags from settling in; with new groups forming and raising flags every week no banner can be trusted...
I'd say it depended on the way the Heralds fared the Spellplague.  If they're mostly intact, or growing, I'd say flags were probably developing along at a steady pace.  If they're screwed over or destroyed, I'd say flags were pushed back quite a bit in their development in a lot of respects.  My overall take would be that with the wilderness being more wild and the lands between nations much bleaker, then the development of national identities would probably be delayed until reliable tradelanes were reestablished and borders became more concrete and less porous.  I don't think they've really caught on yet in a lot of respects, at least not beyond their use previously... the world seems to have gotten bigger, not smaller afterall.

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

We oughta compile all the city symbols and Heraldry from across the realms. Heres what i got sos far:

Cormyr

I'll upload some more as I come across them, I know there was a Halruaa symbol but i cant seem find it now. Halruaa was always one of my favorite regions. Its a shame what happened there.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
-No, there isn't a complete index of flags and heralrdy out there. A long time ago, once upon a time, myself, GothicDan (who you may or may not know, I don't know), and two or three others began compiling what was already in existance, and shooting ideas as to fill in the blanks. The thread has since disappeared, but nothing much ever came of that- my only lasting memories are of the Tantras banner being pretty cool (having been drawn and colorized by Zevox? I don't recall...) and of a few people who no longer post here "yelling" at us for trying to create our own canon, and then trying to pass it off to the rest of the community as something that should be viewed upon as valid.
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature
-No, there isn't a complete index of flags and heralrdy out there. A long time ago, once upon a time, myself, GothicDan (who you may or may not know, I don't know), and two or three others began compiling what was already in existance, and shooting ideas as to fill in the blanks. The thread has since disappeared, but nothing much ever came of that- my only lasting memories are of the Tantras banner being pretty cool (having been drawn and colorized by Zevox? I don't recall...) and of a few people who no longer post here "yelling" at us for trying to create our own canon, and then trying to pass it off to the rest of the community as something that should be viewed upon as valid.



I would love it if they (WotC) would put out a complete heraldry of the Realms book. I could see that being in a Heralds sourcebook or something (are the Heralds even still around in 4e?). I'd love to see some of the homebrew ones you guys came up with, I for one wouldnt of done any yelling. There is a lot of blanks in there. Ive never seen any heraldry for the Border Kingdoms, just to name on area. Well I'm gonna do my best to compile all the ones I can find. I have no artistic talent or id be drawin some up myself. And I finally found the Halruua one, I knew there was one around some where, its in the 2e FR box set. Ill get em scanned in and post on here as well. It would be nice to have a listing of the coat of arms for all the noble families of waterdeep as well, or any other city as well.  
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
OK some more:

Halruaa
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
-No, there isn't a complete index of flags and heralrdy out there. A long time ago, once upon a time, myself, GothicDan (who you may or may not know, I don't know), and two or three others began compiling what was already in existance, and shooting ideas as to fill in the blanks. The thread has since disappeared, but nothing much ever came of that- my only lasting memories are of the Tantras banner being pretty cool (having been drawn and colorized by Zevox? I don't recall...) and of a few people who no longer post here "yelling" at us for trying to create our own canon, and then trying to pass it off to the rest of the community as something that should be viewed upon as valid.


So you and Dan got flamed for having fun?

Nice stuff Silver.

HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

Theres more in the Forgotten Realms Adventures book, but theyre not in color. I cant seem to find anything to tell me what color they are, I was going to color them and post them, but ive no idea what color theyre supposed to be.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Just post 'em uncoloured then.
It's spelled Corellon Larethian, not Correlon, Correllon, Correlllon, Corellion, Correlian or any other way of getting it wrong. I'm a total grognard and I still play 4E.
Just post 'em uncoloured then.



Yeah i spose i could do that

I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
So you and Dan got flamed for having fun?



-The modus operandi for many former posters of these boards, who have since (primarily long ago) moved on elsewhere, to "preach the gospel truth". Our 'crime' was not that me, him, and others were filling in the broad gaps of information that exist within the setting, but that we 'dared' equate the fruits of our labor with the canon information provided by the sourcebooks, novels, and answers provided by various authors (primarily Ed Greenwood, hence my appelation of such individuals as the 'Greenwood Faction'), as opposed to 'fanwork', which sits at a tier much lower- for obvious reasons, primary among them the relative low quality of most fanwork (ie, independent fanfiction writing). Said contributors do not, or rarely post here anymore, and haven't for some time, a good four, five years or so, though you may know some elsewhere, posting under other/similar/the same names at other websites.
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature
Good to know.

So what did these individuals think of the Candlekeep Compendium? Or was that after their time around here? Thus you wouldn't know of their opinion about the Candlekeep Compendium?  

Had a Marcus sighting yesterday/this morning at candlekeep...

HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

I could swear I've seen a color image of the flaming fist logo...... somewhere, or did I get it off the old Baldur's gate pc-game map via a scanner?

oh-well if it was the latter it is long since gone via a hard drive swap.
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I could swear I've seen a color image of the flaming fist logo...... somewhere, or did I get it off the old Baldur's gate pc-game map via a scanner?

oh-well if it was the latter it is long since gone via a hard drive swap.



Yeah there is one on the Baldurs Gate map for the game, got some other ones on there too, like Buldur's Gate, Candlekeep, ill add some of those on here too, when ever i get around to scan them in.

I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
I found this over on Candlekeep:

 

HERALDRY OF THE DALES
by Ed Greenwood/April 2000/Copyright © 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.


 


 ******************************************************************


 


 Herewith, details of the arms of the Dales (a modern real-world herald would probably consider these, by their construction and everyday Dales usage, as 'badges'):


 


 Archendale: "the star and broken crown" (star white with silver points, crown segments of gold, field is scarlet or, in older depictions, crimson; if as a pennant, field has a dagged silver border)


 


 Battledale: "the mace, broken spear, and chain" (black mace, brown spear with steel [=dull silver] point, bright silver chain, all on a field of scarlet; if as a pennant, field has a dagged purple border)


 


 Daggerdale: "the ring and dagger" (has changed over the years, being at one time gold ring, gold dagger with an emerald snake-eye and a scarlet forked tongue, all on a lush green field, but nowadays usually ring and dagger both of a single pewter [=dull silver] hue, on a royal blue field; as Merrydale, this region's badge was "the holly ring;" a circle of nine red holly berries on a leaf-green field, the field always being round, and bordered in blue)


 


 Deepingdale: "the three coins" (usually silver top left, gold lower center, copper upper right, but sometimes in the past they've been all gold or all silver-but in any case, always on a field of forest green; note that although the Grand Tour book depicts three coins in a level row, overlapping from the right and with the largest coin in the center, this usage is old and seldom seen: usually the coins are arranged like a Mickey Mouse-head silhouette [sorry for the image, folks], with two equal-sized coins at upper right and upper left both overlapping a lower, larger central coin-and the coins always have abstract, unreadable decorations on them of mounted men and lettering and crowns and the like, left to the artist but never to exactly depict anyone's coinage-although Sembian artists slyly duplicate their own coins, to assert their claim to 'owning the dales'-and never to all be the same, because they're supposed to represent the coins of many places, spent in the dale in appreciation of its craftwork)


 


 Featherdale: "the river, moon, and feather" (a black feather, usually said to be that of a 'black falcon,' though Sembians always say it's a crow, in front of a white crescent moon [it just LOOKS like a circle :}] with edges of silver, and a river of silver running away to the lower right, always on a deep brown field; if as a pennant, field has a scalloped crimson border)


 


 Harrowdale: "the sword and manche" (the sword is always depicted with its blade shaped like the badge that appears in the Grand Tour book of the 2E Realms boxed set, and is always of gleaming silver-set with glass shards or mirror glass or spell-sparkle if possible, to make it gleam-with a crimson grip; the 'manche' [a stylised sleeve, appearing in the arms in this case to commemorate a long-ago human warrior hacking off one arm of 'an elven witch' to prevent her spells from blasting him off his chosen ground; in other words, it grandly depicts a forceful human seizure of the region from the elves] is always crimson or "blood-red," and the field is always amber or "flame orange")


 


 The High Dale: "the harp" (the stylized bardic instrument is said to be a faithful rendering of one played at the Dancing Place, in 720 DR, at the formal founding of the Harpers, and is always depicted in white, with strings-and the air between them-of vivid [shimmering metallic, whenever possible] green, on a field of sky blue; if as a pennant, the field has a border of emerald green separated from the sky blue by thin white piping)


 


 Mistledale: "the blowing horses" (horseheads and the 'bridle' beneath them are of white, with the vapor of their breath being depicted as two arrowhead-shapes of gold, with white 'smoke lines' amid them, on a field of light [almost lime, but a trifle darker] green)


 


 Scardale: "the triumph" (originally scarlet, on a dun [beige] field, but more recently (last century) has been depicted as cream on a light [again, almost lime, but a trifle darker] green field; Lashan changed it to gold on a dark green field, a coloration abandoned at his disappearance)


 


 Shadowdale: "the moon and tower" (always a spiral tower of silver, in front of a crescent moon, on its back, of silver, on a royal blue field that's always oval, and bordered in silver; if as a pennant, this badge will appear on a larger, unbordered field of forest green)


 


 From time to time, Dalesfolk have used a 'common' Dales recognition badge, usually when far from home, but sometimes on the battlefield, and it's always been a "green branch:" an upright, trident-shaped brown branch that splits into three 'balanced' [=mirror image] branches, surrounded by an irregular halo or field of leaf green.


 


 


So who wants to help me color the Dale heraldry? Ive already started on Deepingdale, was just going to use magic markers but it just didnt look right, colored pencils might be better. Right now im just using MS paint, well see how it comes out.

I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
From Dungeon Magazine #170, Monument of the Ancients

7.jpg

[From left to right]
Top: Archaic holy symbol of Myrkul, Archaic holy symbol of Bane, Heraldic device for Phlan (Human city)
Middle: Tribal badge of Akoro tribe (Goliaths), Tribal badge of Varm (Human barbarians), Archaic holy symbol of Bhaal
Top: Heraldic device for Forharn (Gnome city), Tribal badge of Flindyke (Gnoll/Flind city), Heraldic device for Barze (lost human kingdom)
Brian R. James Freelance Game Designer
So what did these individuals think of the Candlekeep Compendium? Or was that after their time around here? Thus you wouldn't know of their opinion about the Candlekeep Compendium?



-It's sweet irony. If you want to know, PM me.
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature

Pic isn't working for me, Brian


 


Mmm, irony. I can probably guess without being told, hah.

It's spelled Corellon Larethian, not Correlon, Correllon, Correlllon, Corellion, Correlian or any other way of getting it wrong. I'm a total grognard and I still play 4E.
Something like this, Silversword?
dalesheraldrycolor.jpg
Sloppy, but the best I could do without redrawing everything by hand at a larger size.
So what did these individuals think of the Candlekeep Compendium? Or was that after their time around here? Thus you wouldn't know of their opinion about the Candlekeep Compendium?



-It's sweet irony. If you want to know, PM me.


PM sent.

;)

HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

Something like this, Silversword?

Sloppy, but the best I could do without redrawing everything by hand at a larger size.



Hey yeah thats cool, gives us a better idea of what theyre supposed to look like. Redrawing them by hand is a good idea, unfortunatly i have no artistic talent at all. Frown
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
-Color = better.
Trolls in sheep's clothing have no redeeming qualities that are beneficial towards the health of the community. My Artwork/Photography/Literature
Heres one for Baldur's Gate, its from a video game, so Im not sure how "official" it is, but looks good to me.


I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Here's some more I ripped off the Map from the Baldur's Gate Video Game's map...

 Nashkell


 Beregost


Gullykin


Durlag's Tower


I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there


Friendly Arm Inn


Candlekeep


 Ulgoth's Beard
That ones so small I cant even tell what those are supposed to be? Crowns maybe?
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Just remember - no flag, no country, so be aware, and get that flag made before the British show up.

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

Well I dont think we need to worry about the British invading the Realms, or do we!?
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Well, they do get around those Brits...

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

Well, they do get around those Brits...



Tru Dat

Found another Heraldic Shield, its from this website, so not sure how "official" it is but it looks good to me, ya know?



Anybody else got anything? Even if its hombrew stuff, I for one would love to see flags or shields or something done up for all the territories and cities in the Realms, even if we have to make them all ourselves, knowhatimean?
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Volo's Guides had a few mentions of heraldric devices used by cities and towns every now and then... the Guide to the North had several as I recall.

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

I remember there was a section in Powers of Faerun on Heraldry.  Hiring, Laws Governing, and a few examples of Noble Crest and Kingdoms.  Seemed like there was a section on colors, symbols, and representations of creatures I'd have to look to see how much was in there.
Official heraldry would probably exist for some FR nations at this point, but not all. For instance, Cormyr, Sembia, Netheril, Myth Drannor, etc would all probably have widely recognized flags. Waterdeep and Baldur's Gate might as well, since they are city states with nation level influence.

Basically, places that have a strong unified culture and are internally stable with strong trade/other ties with other powers are likely to use flags, while more loose conglomerates are less likely to bother.

Just my two ravens.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
Why wouldn't I be surprised if Cristofer Colombus lands on the port of 4e Waterdeep...

Just started reading Power of Faerun 2 days ago. If I found anything I'll let you know.

I'm defenatly in, on cataloging some crests/banners/symbols. If I can be of any help let me know. (plz make it a steeky thread so it wont be lost in the future.)

How does Knighthood works on the Realms... Also I thought that only soldiers can be knighted but on Power of Faerun read that a Cormyrean knighted a Blacksmith !!!

P.S: Just finished Game of Thrones series. Being new on the Court & Courting concept I got lost at start but it gave me an idea of how the heraldic system works. 
  I'm defenatly in, on cataloging some crests/banners/symbols. If I can be of any help let me know. (plz make it a steeky thread so it wont be lost in the future.)



How well can you draw? As Stig mentioned there are quite a few descriptions in various Realms sourcebooks, and theres quite a few Ed has described over on Candlekeep, Id love to see these drawn out, but Ive got zero artistic talent when it comes to such things.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Well, I dont trust my hand either, but a friend of mine goes on an artist (artistic, artisan,..... damn english) school. He does draw pretty well. Where can I found the various crests that need to be drawn? Could I hope for a link?
Well heres one  two for Candlekeep that Ed (via THO) posted on Candlekeep.com not that long ago:
"• a vertical flat-white-hued human right hand, fingers towards the viewer, clutching a rolled-up, horizontal white scroll, the scroll being outlined all around with blue (what we in the real world sometimes call "electric blue")
• two flat-white long fingered human or elven left hands, the uppermost at top left and the lower one at bottom right, passing a book (in the center) between them. The book is rectangular, dun brown, and oriented with top at upper right, open side down the lower right side, and bottom at lower left. It is plain (no title or illustration on its covers)
Candlekeep also has a formal coat-of-arms, consisting of:
An midnight blue (darker than royal blue, but with a lighter blue "edge" as if moonlight is lighting it "from behind," all around) shield. The shield has straight sides and top, a symmetrical center-point curved bottom, and is "taller" (longer, vertically) than the normal heraldic shield dimensions. It has a border of cream-hued books, all around, each one unique in dimensions and appearance, none bearing titles or visible writing, and each one touching the next.
On the shield is a motto (yes, ON the shield, winding across it just above the bottom point, not wrapped around the shield or beneath/below it) on a scarlet ribbon, that reads: "Write and share the written, and so cheat time."
Above this is a large, unfurled scroll, cream-hued and blank, and crossed atop it are a quill pen (point at lower left, feather-plume at upper right, quill being black and feather being blue with a white tip and black bars, rather like a real-world blue jay feather) and a plain steel-gray sword (hilt at upper left and point at lower right.
The sword is broken into two pieces, with jagged edges that would visibly mesh to form a whole if pushed together, but they are separated by the quill pen, which lies "across" the path of the sword in its own cleared channel (yep, the pen is mightier than the sword)."

I'll post more as I come across them.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there