12/2/2009 BoaB: "Spikeshift"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

Ok seriously. Stop making extended decks. This deck ISN'T EVEN ORIGINAL. Honestly, your primary readers are by far moderately casual standard players. Stop making extended decks. Stop making decks that have already been made. THe last few weeks this column has really taken a downturn. I dont care if the deck isn't amazingly tier 1, brew something ORIGINAL. And standard.

Edit: The dredge deck? Yeah, everyone already knew that.....
I can understand that the idea of a slow R / G deck in a big cardpool format can look suicidal, but it's not bad to try some tweaks. I love Scapeshift, but I'm under the impression that focusing the deck only on playing Scapeshift doesn't really take advantage of the one-card nature of the combo. The blue splash is understandable but at the same time a little too obvious. A black splash featuring something like Extirpate or Duress would have been more interesting, or alternatively going for Chalice of the Void, Thrinisphere or other disruptive artifacts.

How is the matchup against Thopter Foundry? Seems interesting and would probably demand a particular plan for the Scapeshift player. Any useful card from the SB?

It's funny although true that you're the only one Magic writer that ironically has a big anti Spike fanbase. Many writers would kill for this, since any attempt to make something a little more casual or emit an opinion about having casual fun is usually flooded with hate from angry posters that suddenly appear to love to play Stasis or 16+ counter.dec.
If Limited gets in the way of printing good Constructed cards... Screw limited
UGH!!! With States this weekend couldn't he TRY and pay some attention to Standard again - very dissapointed. I always look forward to this column only to be dissapointed, most people I know don't really care about extended. Undecided
I'm guessing the readership for BOAB being mostly anti-spike and etc stems from the previous two writers whose focus was much more on fun/casual/kitchen table. Things like evolving a pre-con deck for example, which is way off from what we have now.

That isn't a bad thing however. What we have now is very much in the theme of building on a budget, but the old format/concepts certainly had fans (I was one at least) and given that was the theme of the column for so long, its not unexpected to see the primary readers and etc highly tilted towards the casual side of things.

Also I am going to guess the cost of the land is going to cause a bit of flak. I know I as a semi casual player would rather be spending 25 dollars on the contents of an entire deck (and on cards I might be able to use in multiple decks as opposed to only decks that are 3 color or etc.)

In this instance however, I think it works very well. Spike like competitive decks, and truely competitive decks -need- a expensive land base a large percentage of the time. I have found that the prohibitive cost of a land base is often what keeps me out/disinterested in building T1 decks for the most part. 

In this case however, the land base really is vital to the deck, obvious so, and I think for spike week at least, having alot of the cost of the deck devoted to the land is perfectly reasonable. I hope it doesn't happen to often but its just fine this week given the theme.

As to the cry for more Standard vs Extended. Extended decks are -alot- easier to make on a budget. Decks that can compete in standard, again, typically require heavy investment in mana. The number of decks that can work in standard, without spending 25-30 dollars on mana, are simply too limited. The Requirements of a cheap deck, that can win, that is unique and not 'seen it already' is vastly easier to meet in extended.

Some of the most interested decks in this column, to me, in the last month or two have been extended, and that's just fine. Yes, I'd like to see some focus on Standard too. But until the metagame was felt out more, extended was a better choice. I'd guess with worlds out of the way and the new zendikar included standard meta more firmly established, we will be seeing more standard decks however. The lack of alot of standard as of late has as much to do with the turn over as anything.

On a final note. Its not the most original deck in the world (obviously) but I have found that RDW, so far, seems to be a very good choice for a budget standard deck. It works best with fetchlands granted, and planeswalkers are usually side-board cards. But teramorphic expansives can take the place of fetchlands (to power up landfall). And you don't need a sideboard in the causal magic MTGO room mostly. Its a very obvious deck, but the vast majority of cards that make it up are -cheap-, commons or uncommons, even though they are expensive for there rarity, its 20cents, as opposed to a penny so not really that bad. Boros also seems a great pick (it uses alot of the cards RDW does,) a budget version would be a bit more expensive, but could easily be made. The lose of baneslayers doesn't cripple the deck.

Ok seriously. Stop making extended decks. This deck ISN'T EVEN ORIGINAL. Honestly, your primary readers are by far moderately casual standard players. Stop making extended decks. Stop making decks that have already been made. THe last few weeks this column has really taken a downturn. I dont care if the deck isn't amazingly tier 1, brew something ORIGINAL. And standard.

Edit: The dredge deck? Yeah, everyone already knew that.....



The card pool for standard is far too small at the moment to be very creative with deck builds, especially when you put a budget constraint on it. I've found a few extended decks I quite like on BoaB, regardless of whether or not they were already known (I quite liked the Restore Balance deck, it's fun), so don't speak like you represent the majority.

And, honestly, I think you're completely off the mark anyway. The majority of BoaB readers would be casual players that aren't restricted by standard-legal cards. If people wanted standard-legal cards, they'd be for standard tournaments, which you don't really want to be playing some janky budget deck at. So suck it up or stop reading. 

I concur. If standard ideas are what you want, check Zendikar game day deck lists or coverage of Worlds. Extended ideas are much more obtainable at the moment.

I'm admittedly biased as I have a local extended tourney I attend and a card house within blocks of my home where I can stroll in and make a deck in minutes with basically pocket change. I probably have the same reasons for liking the column as those wishing for a standard build do for hating it. The standard cards are ones they already have, they are available, and so would someone please recombine them some way I can't seem to figure out? Please don't include Baneslayer....

Ok, off my soap box. I appreciate that this week's column was much cleaner than last and made no mention of play testing against poison counters!

Thank you J V L.

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For a casual crowd, I'm surprised Prismatic Omen wasn't included. With that in play, you only need 6 lands - Scapeshift into 4 Valakut and 2 Mountains will deal 72 damage, will it not? Good for a multiplayer kill!
People say that the great majority of readers want Standard, but I don't understand why. You see, as said before, most readers here are casual players. I, for example, prefer Extended decks. It's better for me, because I have the impression Standard decks never work at their full potential. Besides the fact that Jacob has already said he doesn't like to play with Jund nor against it. So it makes a lot of sense that he doesn't go to Standard too often now, and I don't blame him. I prefer to see an original Extended deck than a Standard one that the writter didn't even want to create.

As for the deck, yes, it's not original. But it works and wins. It actually got a 3-0 score against other Extended decks, so you can't say it doesn't work. And it's Spike week. It's a deck that challenges the player who is using it and wins. Sounds spikish enough for me. I'm not saying I liked the deck (mainly because I'm far from being a Spike) but you have to admit it fits the collumn's theme for the week. So I'm not complaining.

The fact is that it's impossible to make everyone happy. The fact that what the collumn shows isn't what you want to see is not a reason for you to say it's bad. Just understand that there is someone out there that likes what is being said, and that loved this article. The fact is that when someone is happy, this person rarely goes to the boards or sends e-mails. But when someone is angry, it's very easy to come here and say you are unhappy.
OMG click HERE! OMG! How to autocard and use decklist format
--->
For autocarding, write [c][/c] with the name of the card inside it. [c]Island[/c] = Island For linking a card to Gatherer without writting the name of said card for readers, use the autocard brackets together with and equal sign and right the name of the real card. Then put the message you want inside the tags, like you would do with autocarding. Like this: [c=Curse of the Cabal]Captain Never-resolves[/c] = Captain Never-resolves For using the decklist format, follow this: [deck] 4* Terramorphic Expanse 4* Evolving Wilds ... [/deck] It equals:
Real signature, Sblocked for space:
57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
I really couldn't care less about standard, that said with states on the horizont that might have been wise to write about. At any rate, why didn't you sb in flashfreeze against hypergenesis? It is green.
Honestly, your primary readers are by far moderately casual standard players. Stop making extended decks.


And how the hell do you know? Man, I'm tired of people who think they know everything and for some unknown reason they feel like they need to share this knowledge with everyone around.

BTW, who the hell are "moderately casual standard players"?

I like Extended decks in this column. Standard decklists are all over the place. Also, the limited card pool of T2 makes most interactions in that format pretty obvious. Extended decks however, are usually more complicated and skill-testing. That's why I like to read about card choices and playing strategy in Extended. Also, if you're not a tournament player, extended decklists will be far more appealing to you, because they encompass a much broader pool of cards.

Manaug.gif | Manawu.gif | Manau.gif | Manaub.gif | Manaur.gif
I love Extended, but with States this weekend...  this week's article really should have been something players can shuffle up for that tournament.
I've been a detractor (in the forums) of Jacob's builds for a while now, but I'll be the first to say he nailed what he set out to do with this deck.

It's Spike Week, so this deck really fits the theme well. Would it have been better to make a Standard deck? Possibly (Pyromancer's Ascension would have been awesome). Is it original? Not particularly, but it does highlight something that every "budget" player needs to consider: the reusability of cards already in their collection. Peer Through Depths, Rewind, and Coiling Oracle* are cards I had in my digital binder already. Other than Jacob's Twiddle-Shot deck from waaaay back in April, when will I be using Peer Through Depths again? Right around never.

Good job, sir.


*go, go Snakes on a Plane!

(edit: grammar and punctuation is tech)
I liked this article a lot. Looks like a really fun deck.
Spike also tends to be the person who gets upset when he loses, something that hopefully we all strive not to be. Winning is what Spike came to do, and he or she won't be happy with a bad showing.



i think this is kind of a negative stereotype. i think PEOPLE tend to get upset when they lose (i've seen plenty of timmies do that) and spike could be perfectly happy with a "bad showing" if he played well, learned something, or otherwise got something out of the experience that will help him play magic better.

regarding extended: i like seeing extended decks in this article. and i don't mind the spike oriented game plan. vektor is right: people will complain a lot more than they'll praise on the forums and in emails. it doesn't mean they're the majority.


Also I am going to guess the cost of the land is going to cause a bit of flak. I know I as a semi casual player would rather be spending 25 dollars on the contents of an entire deck (and on cards I might be able to use in multiple decks as opposed to only decks that are 3 color or etc.)

In this instance however, I think it works very well. Spike like competitive decks, and truely competitive decks -need- a expensive land base a large percentage of the time. I have found that the prohibitive cost of a land base is often what keeps me out/disinterested in building T1 decks for the most part. 

In this case however, the land base really is vital to the deck, obvious so, and I think for spike week at least, having alot of the cost of the deck devoted to the land is perfectly reasonable. I hope it doesn't happen to often but its just fine this week given the theme.




I liked this deck because it gave me a way to justify buying a few of the better dual lands, without having to commit to a $100+ manabase in order to be competitive.  Dual lands are expensive partly because they are so versatile - you can leverage them in multiple deck archetypes.  I used to be intimidated by Extended until Lorwyn rotated and I was too fond of some of my decks (especially Ben's Big Guys Big Discounts) to give them up.  You know what?  I found it was no big deal.  Sure, there do tend to be more combo decks in the format, so if you are just playing single games, you can get blown out by something you weren't ready for.  But Standard is just too dominated by Jund right now, and I like the diversity of decks in Extended.  Being able to incrementally build an Extended mana base works for my long-term play plans, even if I never do a tournament.

I'd like to vote for a few more decks that use duals to improve their consistency, while offsetting the cost with cheap spells.
I don't understand the anti-Extended comments.  If you're looking for a deck for a competitive event, and you were just absolutely certain that "Building on a Budget" would save the day for you, well, I really don't understand where that expectation came from.  Were you also disappointed when a limo with Ed McMahon didn't show up for you this morning?  It's not JvL's job, particularly at the helm of BOAB, to spoon-feed you Standard tech.

I like seeing BOAB do Extended, for a couple reasons:
 - the bigger card pool means more interesting deck options, which I enjoy
 - building within a budget in Extended is harder to do, so I really enjoy seeing the trade-offs that are being made.

It's just funny that for Spike week, JvL made a fairly spikey deck ...and only served to anger the hardcore Standard Spikes in his forum .
Spike also tends to be the person who gets upset when he loses, something that hopefully we all strive not to be. Winning is what Spike came to do, and he or she won't be happy with a bad showing.



This is simply false.  You're describing a scrub, not a Spike.  Sure he wants to win, but whining because he loses is ultimately counterproductive to winning in the long run when compared to learning why a loss happened.
The end is always nigh.
I don't understand the anti-Extended comments.  If you're looking for a deck for a competitive event, and you were just absolutely certain that "Building on a Budget" would save the day for you, well, I really don't understand where that expectation came from.



This makes complete sense. Next they will want to see Vintage decks in Serious Fun.
OMG click HERE! OMG! How to autocard and use decklist format
--->
For autocarding, write [c][/c] with the name of the card inside it. [c]Island[/c] = Island For linking a card to Gatherer without writting the name of said card for readers, use the autocard brackets together with and equal sign and right the name of the real card. Then put the message you want inside the tags, like you would do with autocarding. Like this: [c=Curse of the Cabal]Captain Never-resolves[/c] = Captain Never-resolves For using the decklist format, follow this: [deck] 4* Terramorphic Expanse 4* Evolving Wilds ... [/deck] It equals:
Real signature, Sblocked for space:
57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
I'm having a bit of trouble getting how the combo plays out..

"You get to seven lands ..., cast Scapeshift getting six Mountains and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, and deal 18 damage to your opponent."

how does that deal 18 damage?

Valakut doesnt even trigger until the 6th mountain...that seems like 3 damage to me.
oh and ps: no one I know cares about Standard, we're all Extended players.
I would much rather see Extended, as it gives a much wider range of cards that can be played, which, in my opinion leads to more interesting options.
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I'm having a bit of trouble getting how the combo plays out..

"You get to seven lands ..., cast Scapeshift getting six Mountains and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, and deal 18 damage to your opponent."

how does that deal 18 damage?

Valakut doesnt even trigger until the 6th mountain...that seems like 3 damage to me.



All the mountains come into play AT THE SAME TIME.  The same reason casting Kicked Rite of Replication on an Ally results in crazy numbers.
they don't come into play one at a time. they come into play all at the same time. so each mountain comes into play and valakut sees that there are enough mountains each time.

edit: beaten to the punch.
Spike also tends to be the person who gets upset when he loses, something that hopefully we all strive not to be. Winning is what Spike came to do, and he or she won't be happy with a bad showing.



This is simply false.  You're describing a scrub, not a Spike.  Sure he wants to win, but whining because he loses is ultimately counterproductive to winning in the long run when compared to learning why a loss happened.



THIS.

A spike plays to be good at the game, while a scrub plays to prove that he is better then the current opponent. This is why you will never see a spike play the top deck if he knows that his opponent is bringing a starter deck to the table.

I find spikes rarley tend to be upset when they loose. If i spike made a mistake and lost, they feel like they deserved it and have noone to blame. If a spike plays perfectly (in his opinion) and lost he doesn't mind because he knows that its a factor of playing the game, and he did everything he could to win.

A spike plays the game to improve. While its nice for others to aknowledge his skills/achievments he does it primarley for himself. This drive for self improvment results in a lot of game wins (hopefully) but each game is just a stepping stone towards the main goal. A spike plays every game to win, but in the end only cares about how he played rather then the result of the game.

I think the reason that players think that spikes hate loosing is because they are the once playing for high stakes. The loss of a stake ( be it $$$ or a pt invite) "taints" a spikes reaction to a game outcome. I think the perfect example of spike mentality is playtesting, the spike plays hundreds of games to gain a better understanding of a deck/format without actually caring about each indevidual result.

Someone please direct me to the people that sell Stomping Ground for 6.5, so I can buy 20 :/
if they all come in at the same time then they come into play when you don't control ANY mountains.

afaik a permanent is not under your control untill the spell resolves.


if they all come in at the same time then they come into play when you don't control ANY mountains.

afaik a permanent is not under your control untill the spell resolves.

There are three conditions for Valakut's ability to trigger : you control it, a mountain enters the battlefield under your control, and there are five other moutains on the battlefiled under you control.

The important concept you seem to have trouble with is that entering the battlefield implies being on the battlefield. There is no in-between where a permanent is neither on the batllefield nor in the zone it came from (the hand, the stack, the library, whatever). So in the scenario of a Valakut and six mountains entering the battlefield under your control at the same time, for each of those mountains, there are five other mountains on the battlefield when it enters the battlefield. Valakut's trigger conditions are met six times, it triggers six times, it deals 3 damage six times.

The best rule I can quote for this is this one. To be honest, it could be clarified a little to help people understand the event of multiple permanents entering the battlefield at the same time with enter-the-battlefield triggers involved, but it says what it needs to say.


603.6a Enters-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent enters the battlefield. These are written, “When [this object] enters the battlefield, . . . “ or “Whenever a [type] enters the battlefield, . . .” Each time an event puts one or more permanents onto the battlefield, all permanents on the battlefield (including the newcomers) are checked for any enters-the-battlefield triggers that match the event.

Magic The Gathering DCI Lvl 1 Judge Don't hesitate to post rules question in the Rules Q&A forum for me and other competent advisors to answer : http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75842/134778/Rules_Q38A
ok, thanks for clarifying the ruling.

still doesnt seem logical to me but if that's how the rules are applied then that's all there is to it

WotC would have to add a rule that said something like, when multiple cards are to enter the battlefield, the active player chooses the order in which they enter and they enter one at a time.  Much like you do now with Graveyard order.  For whatever reason they've not chosen to do so, and abusing the fact that multiple cards can come into play simultaneously has been a long-standing M:tG tradition.

Thanks for explaining the rules situation, I wasn't clear about that either.

I do have a different question though. How did the World's Deck work if it only had ONE mountain in it?







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Extended - 2009 World Championships


View a sample hand of this deck







Main Deck


60 cards


6  Forest
4  Island
2  Misty Rainforest
1  Mountain
4  Steam Vents
4  Stomping Ground
2  Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
23 lands


4  Coiling Oracle
4  Sakura-Tribe Elder
4  Wood Elves

2  Cryptic Command
4  Firespout
3  Harrow
4  Peer Through Depths
4  Remand
4  Repeal
4  Scapeshift
Steam Vents and Stomping Ground are special duals that have the basic land type Mountain so they count as a Mountain.  You might want to watch him talk about the deck in the following video:
 
www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.a...

(Sorry, video embedding doesn't seem to work.)

An additional thought: Could this deck be turned into an insidious mill deck with Hedron Crab? If you sat on them in your hand, played two, then Scapeshifted for eight lands, that should be 48 cards milled. Six lands might be sufficient (36 off the top of library) if you actually played one at some point while dropping lands... hmmm.

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