Upcoming Extended Season

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The new Extended Season will start January 2. Worldwake will be released February 5. The next major Extended Tournament will be GP Oakland on February 13-14.

I am interested to hear what do you think will the Extended Season look like? Before the Worldwake release do you expect to see the decklists from PT Austin and Worlds most of the time or did you expect to see a major change from an archetyp like we could see it now with Zoo thanks to Rubin Zoo and Saito Zoo that are playing differently than previous Zoo builds.

Should Worlkwake enable a new archetyp or a major change to an archetyp did you expect the new archetyp to be played in larger numbern at PTQs before GP Oakland or after GP Oakland when somebody prooft its worth?

Dark Depths dropped in numbers at worlds compared to PT Austin. Did you think its time is over or was it simply a metagame decision? In general which Decks did you expect to see.

I do not think that most player will try to create a new archetyp or change an existing one for a PTQ. Because of that I expect Zoo, HyperCascade, Dredge, Dark Depths and All in Red to be leading in numbers at PTQ before GP Oakland. I am only not sure which Zoo Version will catch more attention Rubin or Saito. But probably Rubin because it won a Pro Tour and not everyone is paying attention to six rounds of Extended at worlds.
I would like to say I expect W based control to be the sleeper deck since it has a favorable match up vs 3 of the decks that are most expected.
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal
89522235 wrote:
niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK! "ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day..." "MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I do not think that most player will try to create a new archetyp or change an existing one for a PTQ. Because of that I expect Zoo, HyperCascade, Dredge, Dark Depths and All in Red to be leading in numbers at PTQ before GP Oakland. I am only not sure which Zoo Version will catch more attention Rubin or Saito. But probably Rubin because it won a Pro Tour and not everyone is paying attention to six rounds of Extended at worlds.


This is about what I expect, too.

MWC is arguably the best deck in the format, but it will probably be underplayed again.
Did you have a decklist for MWC for testing?
Sure do.  I haven't been playing it a whole lot recently (been testing Legacy and other Extended decks), but it crushes Zoo and has game against every deck in the format.  It probably needs to be tweaked to adapt to the post-Worlds metagame.

25 Land
10 Plains
4 Marsh Flats
4 Godless Shrine
2 Fetid Heath
1 Swamp
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Mistveil Plains

9 Creatures
4 Martyr of Sands
3 Baneslayer Angel
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant

26 Other Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Runed Halo
4 Wrath of God
4 Phyrexian Arena
3 Ghostly Prison
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Proclamation of Rebirth
2 Austere Command

15 Sideboard
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ravenous Trap
4 Thoughtseize
3 Condemn

I'm glad to see that people aren't taking the time off between seasons to relax. As I've set myself the goal to go pro this year starting with Baltamore this is the format I'm focusing on the most. So here's something I want to point out to everyone and that is the most underrated card I think people are not playing with, and the reason why I think one of the standard decks might have a chance in the extended format.

Blood Seeker for the win!

Honestly when the release sealed deck tourny for Zen was being held and I had no clue on what colors to play this thing made up my mind that black was going to be a cgreat pick. Having the luck to have three of these in my packs caused me to be able to stand up to the waves of creatures coming my way all day and race enough games to place in the middle of the standings. Those three cards were partly the only good stuff in deck and in all honesty I should have been playing something esle out of my card pool. Yet, I'm glad I took notice of those three vamps. So here is the reasons why Blood Seeker is going to be a major player in extended.

  • Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek combo loses its life advantage with one in play and with two it becomes game over to even use the combo.

  • Bridge From Below is not a may ablity. Dredge has to be careful about its combo going off in it's face cause three necromoeba's plus twelve zombies and the zeolot causes them to lose 16 life. If you can luck out to stay alive until turn three or four you should have put in that other 4 points.


Alright now I know that this all is key to having you little 1/1 for 1B stay alive and keep them from going combo nuts, because just like any other 1/1 for two this guy dies to almost everything that can kill a black creature or give it -1/-1. Luckily we have some options in ways to protect it as well as all the other creatures were know have big bullseyes on thier forheads. Give it shroud, pump it up with equipment or counters, retarget or counter the spell they are using, and we could also go the way of making it regenate. Also lets not forget that having someone else with a bullseye on them is a good way to protect the Seeker because in a game were the seeker isn't going to shut down their combo its going to get over looked because its not as much a threat. Still its going to bug them to the point that it is going to draw fire from their creature hate. Which means one less card to hit one of your bigger more inportant creatures.

So please try out my idea and get back to me with your input on these pesky 1/1s. Understand these are not going to be game winners but rather something to just buy you time until you can answer these decks.
So you're going to be spending a ton of resources to protect something that isn't even good against Zoo, the defining deck of the format? 
Just thought I would throw my list out here since there seems to be no other place for it with MWC missing from the TC now.

// Lands
    1 [SHM] Mistveil Plains
    2 [ZEN] Emeria, the Sky Ruin
    4 [GP] Godless Shrine
    4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    8 [ZEN] Plains (1)
    4 [EVE] Fetid Heath
    2 [M10] Gargoyle Castle

// Creatures
    2 [M10] Baneslayer Angel
    1 [PLC] Crovax, Ascendant Hero
    4 [CS] Martyr of Sands
    1 [SOK] Kagemaro, First to Suffer

// Spells
    2 [DIS] Proclamation of Rebirth
    2 [LRW] Austere Command
    1 [FD] Beacon of Immortality
    2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    4 [SHM] Runed Halo
    4 [CFX] Path to Exile
    3 [9E] Phyrexian Arena
    4 [10E] Wrath of God
    3 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
    2 [CHK] Ghostly Prison

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [M10] Silence
SB: 3 [MR] Rule of Law
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [ZEN] Sorin Markov
SB: 2 [ZEN] Disfigure


The ghostly prisons are a meta gem call you could switch them to sacred mesa if for some god forsaken reason fae comes back.
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal
89522235 wrote:
niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK! "ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day..." "MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Blood Seeker is terrible aganist zoo, burn, scapeshift.


Ok sure, you block their gaining life ability out but your forgeting that they are still going to be hitting you with a lot of 1/1's and vampires cannot keep up with. Dredge might lose a lot of power with Blood Seeker in play but chances are you won't be getting that little 1/1 in time for their combo off and how does blood seeker handle golgari grave troll? It doesnt. MWC would destroy your whole lose life stragety, you won't be outrunning a martyr that gains nine life.


Your matchups are terrible with blood seeker. Don't expect to go pro one card.
I would like to say I expect W based control to be the sleeper deck since it has a favorable match up vs 3 of the decks that are most expected.

Test extensively against Gifts control, that's all I'm saying.

If there's any other worse matchup in the history of Magic, I'd be damned. I ran Gifts/Tez against BW Control for about 9 matches and haven't lost a game yet. Non permission control decks just fold over to permission, as sad as it is.

And, is there a chance we played as well? One of my matches was against a list damne close to your's.



Every deck'll have its bad matchups.  Granted, if Gifts becomes big, MWC probably won't be.  But as long as Zoo is the top deck in the format, MWC will have a place in the metagame. 
I would like to say I expect W based control to be the sleeper deck since it has a favorable match up vs 3 of the decks that are most expected.

Test extensively against Gifts control, that's all I'm saying.

If there's any other worse matchup in the history of Magic, I'd be damned. I ran Gifts/Tez against BW Control for about 9 matches and haven't lost a game yet. Non permission control decks just fold over to permission, as sad as it is.

And, is there a chance we played as well? One of my matches was against a list damne close to your's.



Every deck'll have its bad matchups.  Granted, if Gifts becomes big, MWC probably won't be.  But as long as Zoo is the top deck in the format, MWC will have a place in the metagame. 


Agreed, although it's worrysome because Gifts was arguably the best deck at worlds.  I thought the matchup would be better than it was with ghostly prisons and o-rings, but engineered explosives absolutely wrecks you.  I tested some with kedi and it was really bad.
Was Gifts really that big at Worlds?  I haven't looked at the data yet.  If Gifts is indeed tier 1, then MWC needs to develop a plan to at least have a chance at beating it.  Ideas?
Every deck will have a bad matchup, agreed. But if it's as bad as it's not even a matchup but "Gifts vs MWC 2-0, let's save our time and go out have som lunch" bad, then it's really not a deck I'd like to pick.

Granted, about every other matchup is drastically in MWC's favour, but I can't just see it beat Gifts. If it can, I'll be damned.


The only time I could see myself beating it is against an incompetent player who can't work around the annoying enchantments with EE.  But you can't really assume your opponents are going to be absolutely terrible :P, so it's pretty much that bad.

Twins: Yeah, it was really successful, look at the top lists.
Vs gifts you pray in game one but in game 2 and 3 you side in extripate and play your game as usual except aiming it at explosive and either part of the thopter combo. As long as you can put up a big enough defence to last long enough to hit those key targets you have a pretty good chance.
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal
89522235 wrote:
niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK! "ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day..." "MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Vs gifts you pray in game one but in game 2 and 3 you side in extripate and play your game as usual except aiming it at explosive and either part of the thopter combo. As long as you can put up a big enough defence to last long enough to hit those key targets you have a pretty good chance.


I love you, I hadn't thought of that.  Kedi and I were brainstorming and new there had to be something decent.
I was thinking Extirpate, too.  You really need graveyard hate for that matchup, and Pate seems to be the best option.
Vs gifts you pray in game one but in game 2 and 3 you side in extripate and play your game as usual except aiming it at explosive and either part of the thopter combo. As long as you can put up a big enough defence to last long enough to hit those key targets you have a pretty good chance.


I love you, I hadn't thought of that.  Kedi and I were brainstorming and new there had to be something decent.




It's not the greatest thing but it's the best thing I have figured out for now and extripate is possibly in your sideboard already for the dredge match*
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal
89522235 wrote:
niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK! "ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day..." "MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Vs gifts you pray in game one but in game 2 and 3 you side in extripate and play your game as usual except aiming it at explosive and either part of the thopter combo. As long as you can put up a big enough defence to last long enough to hit those key targets you have a pretty good chance.


I love you, I hadn't thought of that.  Kedi and I were brainstorming and new there had to be something decent.




It's not the greatest thing but it's the best thing I have figured out for now and extripate is possibly in your sideboard already for the dredge match*


Right.  Because Extirpate is also good against Dredge (and other graveyard-utilizing decks), you have space for a few more anti-Gifts cards, if necessary. 
gifts is a hard match up. but it isn't an autoloss. if you're running crovax and Kagemaro, First to Suffer and austere command. runed halo naming gifts really stalls the deck and makes them usually have to topdeck a combo piece or tezz. along with several other cards. and after g1 extirpate will help.
gifts is a hard match up. but it isn't an autoloss. if you're running crovax and Kagemaro, First to Suffer and austere command. runed halo naming gifts really stalls the deck and makes them usually have to topdeck a combo piece or tezz. along with several other cards. and after g1 extirpate will help.




Do you know what the halo does?
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal
89522235 wrote:
niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK! "ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day..." "MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
gifts is a hard match up. but it isn't an autoloss. if you're running crovax and Kagemaro, First to Suffer and austere command. runed halo naming gifts really stalls the deck and makes them usually have to topdeck a combo piece or tezz. along with several other cards. and after g1 extirpate will help.




Do you know what the halo does?


You can halo gifts, it legitimately works.  Still the matchup is terrible and if you think otherwise you're wrong.  I was talking to kedi and was like, well I have ghostly prison and o-rings and stuff, so maybe it's better than we think.  So we played.  I lost every game.
gifts is a hard match up. but it isn't an autoloss. if you're running crovax and Kagemaro, First to Suffer and austere command. runed halo naming gifts really stalls the deck and makes them usually have to topdeck a combo piece or tezz. along with several other cards. and after g1 extirpate will help.

I'd go as far as to say it's an autoloss. First, most of the decks that are "Gifts" ain't running more than 2, tops, 3 gifts. So Runed Halo is annoying, but it can be ignored, or it can be nuked. Crovax and Austere command are very easy to counter. Kagemaro dies to the removal of Gifts that had been waiting in the opening hand.

Stalling Gifts is the worst idea, because no other decks can use the end game as well as gifts can, with Academy recursions. It can shut down your entire Emeria engine, EE away all your enchantments, and just take one turn to win with a massive army of thopters.

Seriously, outside of Pates in the MD, under most most circumstances there's no way to win G1, and given the nature of decks, it's very easy to go to time in g2. I'm not saying this because "Lolgifts, gtfo", just pointing over the imminent importance of playing at least 2 pates in the MD and 2 in the SB given the nature of these decks.



well everything is "easy" to counter. imo it's just like the "dies to removal" argument. also the point with gifts is that usually if it resolves you've lost. and kagemaro doesn't really die to removal. so it should go into the thing you have to counter. also in the late game ee doesn't hurt as much. because prison won't do much because you will be able to swing in for a decent amount of life each turn. you can recur crypt every turn too...

i still don't think it's an autoloss but then again i've only been testing on mws... which i guess doesn't mean much since most of the players are imcompetent

gifts is a hard match up. but it isn't an autoloss. if you're running crovax and Kagemaro, First to Suffer and austere command. runed halo naming gifts really stalls the deck and makes them usually have to topdeck a combo piece or tezz. along with several other cards. and after g1 extirpate will help.

I'd go as far as to say it's an autoloss. First, most of the decks that are "Gifts" ain't running more than 2, tops, 3 gifts. So Runed Halo is annoying, but it can be ignored, or it can be nuked. Crovax and Austere command are very easy to counter. Kagemaro dies to the removal of Gifts that had been waiting in the opening hand.

Stalling Gifts is the worst idea, because no other decks can use the end game as well as gifts can, with Academy recursions. It can shut down your entire Emeria engine, EE away all your enchantments, and just take one turn to win with a massive army of thopters.

Seriously, outside of Pates in the MD, under most most circumstances there's no way to win G1, and given the nature of decks, it's very easy to go to time in g2. I'm not saying this because "Lolgifts, gtfo", just pointing over the imminent importance of playing at least 2 pates in the MD and 2 in the SB given the nature of these decks.



well everything is "easy" to counter. imo it's just like the "dies to removal" argument. also the point with gifts is that usually if it resolves you've lost. and kagemaro doesn't really die to removal. so it should go into the thing you have to counter. also in the late game ee doesn't hurt as much. because prison won't do much because you will be able to swing in for a decent amount of life each turn. you can recur crypt every turn too...

i still don't think it's an autoloss but then again i've only been testing on mws... which i guess doesn't mean much since most of the players are imcompetent



It is an auto-loss.  Kedi mentioned this, but I want to go in more detail.  You have to in every matchup see who wants to be the aggro and who wants to be the control.  In this matchup you have to be the aggro, because the longer the game goes the less likely it is you will win.  MWC doesn't do this well and all the cards that are supposedly good in the matchup just stall the game, but don't help you win.
i am aware that they both are control deck. i know mwc has a worse late game than thopter; but i still don't believe it's an autoloss
I haven't been on the forums in a while, but thought I'd stop by to throw some love to MWC.

Twins, you're going to be pretty frustrated if you don't have a SB for the mirror. Feladar Sovereign and Tormod's Crypt are both really good choises. I'd almost go as far to say if you aren't running Feladar in the SB, then the mirror is an auto-draw.

As far as Gifts, I've been looking at Aven Mindcensor. At worst, it's a counterspell. If you can get it to stick for any length of time, even better.
I haven't been on the forums in a while, but thought I'd stop by to throw some love to MWC.

Twins, you're going to be pretty frustrated if you don't have a SB for the mirror. Feladar Sovereign and Tormod's Crypt are both really good choises. I'd almost go as far to say if you aren't running Feladar in the SB, then the mirror is an auto-draw.

As far as Gifts, I've been looking at Aven Mindcensor. At worst, it's a counterspell. If you can get it to stick for any length of time, even better.



Sorin is your mirror tech
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal
89522235 wrote:
niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK! "ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day..." "MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I haven't been on the forums in a while, but thought I'd stop by to throw some love to MWC.

Twins, you're going to be pretty frustrated if you don't have a SB for the mirror. Feladar Sovereign and Tormod's Crypt are both really good choises. I'd almost go as far to say if you aren't running Feladar in the SB, then the mirror is an auto-draw.

As far as Gifts, I've been looking at Aven Mindcensor. At worst, it's a counterspell. If you can get it to stick for any length of time, even better.


Sorin wrecks the mirror, and I have sideboard Thoughtseize.  I'm really not too worried.
Do you already have a shedule for the PTQs in your area?

Here in Germany most Venues seem to planing the PTQs for the time after the Worldwake Release. But after we have no regionals we have National Qualifiers and the German representative for Wizard wanted the National Qualifiers at the same time were most Venues wanted to play the PTQs. Now the Venues have to look how to shedule the PTQs and the NQs during Februay and March without  to many Venues playing the Qualifiers at the same day. Because of that the final shedule in Germany is not done yet.

France also seem to have no final shedul right now but I dont know the reason for that.

Because of that I wanted to know if you face similar problems.
Do you already have a shedule for the PTQs in your area?

Here in Germany most Venues seem to planing the PTQs for the time after the Worldwake Release. But after we have no regionals we have National Qualifiers and the German representative for Wizard wanted the National Qualifiers at the same time were most Venues wanted to play the PTQs. Now the Venues have to look how to shedule the PTQs and the NQs during Februay and March without  to many Venues playing the Qualifiers at the same day. Because of that the final shedule in Germany is not done yet.

France also seem to have no final shedul right now but I dont know the reason for that.

Because of that I wanted to know if you face similar problems.


I haven't seen anything yet. 
I have a ptq tomorrow
I have a ptq tomorrow


Good luck, man.  What are you playing?  Of those lists you sent me, I'd go with Chord-Lark.
I have a ptq tomorrow


If you top 8 with chord-a-lark I will send you an undisclosed amount of money in the mail that's greater than 5 cents and less than a billion dollars.  Just saying.
I have a ptq tomorrow


If you top 8 with chord-a-lark I will send you an undisclosed amount of money in the mail that's greater than 5 cents and less than a billion dollars.  Just saying.


I wouldn't be surprised if he did make T8.  It's a great deck.
good news: I top 8'd

bad news: I lost to all in red first round of t8... hard to beat turn 1 deus on a mull to 5 (he went on to ride the sick wave of variance to take down the tournament)

worse (?) news: I played thopter sword. Tourney report to come if anyone's interested. I was really really pleased with how the deck performed; the field was some ridiculous percentage scapeshift and I was 3-0 on the day cause I'm super comfortable with that matchup.

EDIT: the primary reason I didn't play chord lark was the matchup with scapeshift is mediocre to atrocious. And how much time I had spent on modo with thopter sword and how comfortable I was with its matchups against anything. Slops to nobody having talisman of progress though had to run 2 more lands and the fourth mox instead
good news: I top 8'd

bad news: I lost to all in red first round of t8... hard to beat turn 1 deus on a mull to 5 (he went on to ride the sick wave of variance to take down the tournament)

worse (?) news: I played thopter sword. Tourney report to come if anyone's interested. I was really really pleased with how the deck performed; the field was some ridiculous percentage scapeshift and I was 3-0 on the day cause I'm super comfortable with that matchup.

EDIT: the primary reason I didn't play chord lark was the matchup with scapeshift is mediocre to atrocious. And how much time I had spent on modo with thopter sword and how comfortable I was with its matchups against anything. Slops to nobody having talisman of progress though had to run 2 more lands and the fourth mox instead


CONGRATS!  And I would love a tourney report.  Also, I haven't been playing chord as much too because scapeshift is like 80% of the field on mws, but I thought it still wouldn't be that popular in real life.  I guess you made the right call then!
good news: I top 8'd

bad news: I lost to all in red first round of t8... hard to beat turn 1 deus on a mull to 5 (he went on to ride the sick wave of variance to take down the tournament)

worse (?) news: I played thopter sword. Tourney report to come if anyone's interested. I was really really pleased with how the deck performed; the field was some ridiculous percentage scapeshift and I was 3-0 on the day cause I'm super comfortable with that matchup.

EDIT: the primary reason I didn't play chord lark was the matchup with scapeshift is mediocre to atrocious. And how much time I had spent on modo with thopter sword and how comfortable I was with its matchups against anything. Slops to nobody having talisman of progress though had to run 2 more lands and the fourth mox instead


That's awesome, my friend.  I can't wait for the tourney report. 


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