Scavenger's Guide to Droids (SGD) review!

Okay, so I picked up two copies of the SGD today (one as a Christmas present for a friend) and read through most of it.

Made of awesome.

I'll give a breakdown below:

Chapter One:  Droid Heroes

No new races per se, but expanded rules for creating droid heroes, but as a stock droid, custom droid, and a "halfway" option, where you can pick a droid type (astromech, battle, protocol, labor, medical, etc.) like a species, and install components to either emulate a version of an existing droid or design a custom droid.  Two new planets (Mechis III and Telti, two major droid production planets) with a lot of fluff about how droids are designed and built by the megacorps and smaller droid manufacturing concerns.  Lists of droid manufacturers, with the traits their droids are known for.  Essentially, an optional rule to give your droid a slight benefit based on the company that designed them.  For instance, a Baktoid droid uses cheap processors, so can be victim of a Persuasion check to cause it to lose an action as it's processor goes into a logic snarl.  However, if it beats the Persuasion check, it gets a free swift action.  Rules for droid quirks are also found here, and they can apply bonuses and/or penalties to certain actions and abilities, as well as adding flavor to the droid.  The first time I've seen a quirks system that I'd like to play with, as it isn't all negative effects, and the quirks themselves seem like they could actually be interesting to play with.  Several new feats, mostly for droids, but a few usable by cyborgs and organics who work closely with droids.  New Droid Degree talents, and new talents for the Droid Commander and Independent Droid Prestige Classes (book crossover FTW!!!)  Lastly, optional rules and guidelines for dealing with droids in-game realistically and logically, covering such topics as damage and destruction, improvised droid tasks.

Chapter Two:  Droid Allies

New rules for caluclating a droid's cost, mostly for use with the "Droids as Equipment" rules.  The Droids as Equipment rules allow a PC to use a droid like a piece of equipment, giving up swift actions to allow the droid to take actions on the PC's behalf.  Rather like the Follower system, but much more user-friendly, though still of limited utility for truly combat-oriented PCs with combat-oriented droids.  There's also a handy table for adding "protocol actions" to the droid's list. . . say, for instance, if you add an ability to your pocket droid Noble, you can see what kind of action the droid needs to perform that ability and then learn how many swift actions the droid's owner will need to use to make the droid perform the ability.  Sounds complex, but it's actually pretty simple in practice.  A sectoin on how to roleplay a droid memorably, most of which struck me as "duh" but is still an interesting read, and rife with ideas.  Several pages of fluff, dealing with droids as allies, droids as enemies, ant-droid opinion, pro-droid opinion, droids as property, droid controversies, droid organizations, and droid legends.  The Droid Legends section is particularily interesting reading.  What happens to all those junked droids left over after various space battles?  What happens to the droids aboard a ship that is catastrophically damaged, killing all the organics but leaving the majority for droid's intact?  Where did droids first come from?  What secrets are the Junk Droids of Raxus Prime hiding?  And what happens to a droid who learns to transmit his programming like a virus?  Lastly, a small section about droids without bodies.

Chapter Three:  Droid Equipment

All kinds of spiffy new droid gear, from automaps to underground and underwater locomotion to new armors.  New "droid stations," large droid support facilities.  Lastly, a whole page providing tips to GMs for adjudicating droid modifications.

Chapter Four:  Droid Codex

The entire last half of the book is devoted to different droid models, with each droid given two pages worth of space.  First is a regular stat block, then a "protocol action" stat block.  Next is the fluff about that droid, then two or three proposed modifications for that model of droid.  Mixed in are at least two sidebars, one dealing encounter suggestions for that droid model, one dealing with playing that model of droid as a droid hero, and another with a "junk dealer's" fluff about the droid, which usually contains adventure hooks based around that model of droid.  Finally, and most importantly, a FULL COLOR ILLUSTRATION OF THE DROID IN ACTION.  Some of these are stock shots from the movies, but many more are excellently illustrated pictures of the droid fulfilling its primary function.

Various:  The book lacks an index (ARGH!) but has numerous sidebars throughout, chalk full of useful information.  Some of my favorites are the "junk dealer's" sidebars, denoted by a black circle with a white Toydarian silhouette, with are written from the perspective a droid dealer talking to a customer or associate about this model of droid, that facet of droid design, or whatever.

All in all, a pretty damn good book, really useful even if your campaign doesn't center around droids.  The "droids as equipment" rules are an excellent way to allow your players to purchase and utilize droids without having them essentially buy a new party member (a common complaint on these very boards) and would be useful for pretty much any campaign.  The droid codex is an excellent place for GMs to get new droids for their PCs to interact with.  And of course, if your have a droid hero or droid technician in your party, this book is simply a must-have.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19424726/Saga_Edition_Weapons_Complaints__ http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19425146/New_Empire_Sourcebook
I agree...an awesome book.  I enjoyed it a lot and I plan on working the follower system into a system more like the droid one...overall another A book.  I am really impressed with the level of quality of saga edition...despite some quirks it has been really solid and enjoyable.  I can't wait for the next 2 books...and the Sith version of JATM that's SURE to come out third. (D-TEAM HINT HINT!)
I will have it tonight...when I get out of work...BLAST!
Sounds awesome man, thanks for the breakdown

It is a really good book I agree... mostly got it to fulfil that completist urge I have, but I ended up really enjoying reading it over.  A very pleasant suprise for me.

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

This was the one SAGA book I saw in the upcoming thread and said to myself, "that will sit on my shelf for the rest of time (I'm a collector, especially when I like a game system).

After buying the book and reading through it, I have to say:  A really decent book.

1) I like that they included a fairly large amount of new Droid equipment, especially since it affects cyborgs as well.  This gives many more options fo droid players and NPCs, so not every higher level droid has the same equipment.

2) I really liked the talent section because it incorporated elements from other source material.  My biggest pet peeve is a sort of system amnesia, and while I understand why, it does get on my nerves.  But not in this book.  THe Droid Officer from CWCG, the Degree talents and Independent droid PrC from FUCG, these are great ty ins, not only helping the value of this book, but highlighting other products.  Also, in the art work they pull from several sources, HK-24's adn others in the early part of the book.

3) I really enjoy the space and variants devoted to each droid in the codex chapter.  Options and multiple uses with in game rules on how to modify them, it makes each droid model more like 2-3, and they are great for surprising people who think they know it all.

4)protocol rules, for droid helpers.  similar to followers.

5) so great fluff.  specifically the RP'ing the droid and the section on droid legends.  It's interesting and full of imagination.

The down sides:

1) By it's nature, it's a narrowly focused book.  Basically droids only.

2) No real mention of replica droids, especially as a droid model.  These are my favorite Droid model, so it's a bit disappointing.

3) My biggest pet peeves with droids are not answered.  The no con score crap really irritates me, because it's just a logical fallacy.  A con score on a droid could represent the degree of quality in the actuators, wiring, durability of materials, and overall quality of the design.  no optional rules means that this is still the main mode of operation.  While i suppose that would take up too much space in the book, it still bothers me.

4) minor thing.  labor droids are not available as large in the stock droid models.  That's just silly.


All in all, it's a fantastic book, but it's still a droid book.  I'm sure I will end up using it, but the degree of using it is a bit minimal.
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Well, most labor droids don't need to be larger then medium.  Large labor droids, like binary load-lifters, are the exception, and usually designed for very specific tasks, making them of limited use for player characters.  Besides, the rules is "don't modify droid's size without GM approval," so the GM could certainly let you play a large labor droid.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19424726/Saga_Edition_Weapons_Complaints__ http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19425146/New_Empire_Sourcebook
I'm glad this was posted since it's not on the main page (Galaxy of War still is) and it's the release date. My book is on the way, no early copy this time, some stores told me they weren't going to be carrying it!?!

I'll update the Index by the time Thanksgiving weekend is over!

Shane
Well I'm sorry to say that I don't have the book yet, but I did get the opportunity to sit down with it at the bookstore today and read it from cover to cover (took me about 4.5 hours).

Overall, I'd say it looks pretty good. The options are balanced and interesting. It also answers a lot of old questions that have needed answering, such as getting droid sockets on ships (10,000 cr and 0 EP), adding droid brains to your vehicle (ala the Millineium Falcon) in order to reduce crew requirements, and how much class levels, feats, talents, and skills cost to put into a custom droid model. The book also provides several new optional rules and subsystems some of which are complex, but all are nice.

If the book has a drawback, it's that it is all about droids. If you aren't a droid enthusiast, or don't think droids will play a big role in your games, then there is absolutley no reasn to buy this book (the little clarifications like those shown above can be found online easily enough).

As far as typos go, I found a few--the worst of which was a paragraph being repeated twice in succession.
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If I'm REALLY lucky, I'll get it tomorrow.  Otherwise I'll have to wait until the day after thanksgiving when I get back from Baltimore.  Hopefully it comes tomorrow . . . I don't live TOO far from where it's shipping from >,.<
Okay....ummm.....I don't really know how to word this, so I'm just goign to throw it out there...


Here goes....


Why would "It only has things for Droids in it" be considered a drawback when......it's a book for Droids...?


That's like saying "Only gripe I had about Rifts: Atlantis is that everything was all about Atlantis..."

Or "Werewolf: The Apocalypse is a spectacular RPG...Only thing is, it's only about Werewolves...Keep that in mind when you buy it..."

Or even better: "I like the Clone Wars Campaign Guide, except that it was all about the Clone Wars, and I was kinda hoping to see some Rebellion info...."


Am I wrong..? Am I overthinking things here..? It's a book about Droids...Even says so on the cover... :P


Anyway, I think everyone should strike "it's a book about droids" off their list of cons when saying what they liked or disliked about the book......About droids.... :P
Okay....ummm.....I don't really know how to word this, so I'm just goign to throw it out there...


Here goes....


Why would "It only has things for Droids in it" be considered a drawback when......it's a book for Droids...?


That's like saying "Only gripe I had about Rifts: Atlantis is that everything was all about Atlantis..."

Or "Werewolf: The Apocalypse is a spectacular RPG...Only thing is, it's only about Werewolves...Keep that in mind when you buy it..."

Or even better: "I like the Clone Wars Campaign Guide, except that it was all about the Clone Wars, and I was kinda hoping to see some Rebellion info...."


Am I wrong..? Am I overthinking things here..? It's a book about Droids...Even says so on the cover... :P


Anyway, I think everyone should strike "it's a book about droids" off their list of cons when saying what they liked or disliked about the book......About droids.... :P


I lol'd.
Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.
We don't really use droids much in my game so I'm in no hurry to pick this one up. But I did have a look at it today and it does some to be pretty good. I was amused to no end by being able to add a mess tape dispenser to a droid.

I also liked that there were some clear nods to the CW TV show. Stuff like that just makes the whole EU seem more connected to me.
I think it gave a lot of ideas for alternate takes on talents and such that I honestly hadn't considered much.  The analysis droid with scoundrel levels, and how certain things could be rationalized and justified was just brilliant.

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

Okay....ummm.....I don't really know how to word this, so I'm just goign to throw it out there...


Here goes....


Why would "It only has things for Droids in it" be considered a drawback when......it's a book for Droids...?


That's like saying "Only gripe I had about Rifts: Atlantis is that everything was all about Atlantis..."

Or "Werewolf: The Apocalypse is a spectacular RPG...Only thing is, it's only about Werewolves...Keep that in mind when you buy it..."

Or even better: "I like the Clone Wars Campaign Guide, except that it was all about the Clone Wars, and I was kinda hoping to see some Rebellion info...."


Am I wrong..? Am I overthinking things here..? It's a book about Droids...Even says so on the cover... :P


Anyway, I think everyone should strike "it's a book about droids" off their list of cons when saying what they liked or disliked about the book......About droids.... :P





The majority of Saga books have something for everyone, even if it's not much. While the Clone Wars CG has all Clone Wars fluff, it also contains talents for all 5 core classes (if I'm remembering correctly), as well as a decent number of feats and a fair amount of equipment.

The Droids book falls into a small category (along with The Jedi Academy Training Manual and Starships of the Galaxy) where a potentially large portion of the audience will have no need for the book. I have three regular players in my group, and while one of them will likely pick it up (because, like me, he's a Star Wars compleatist), the other two will never even look at my version (because there's virtually nothing they "need" in the book).

Nothing wrong with that, but it makes it a very different type of book than many of the Campaign Guides are (thanks to the wide array of talents, feats, and equipment that are featured in most).

If this were a minis set, it would be a 3-faction set rather than one with 7-10 factions included.
It's a book about Droids....What did you expect, Force powers..? The Clone Wars Campaign Guide had things for everyone because it was a Campaign Guide...If I'm buying a Clone Wars Campaign Guide, I expect it to be full of stuff for everyone, but it will be from the Clone Wars...I'm not going to put a check in the Cons column of the Clone Wars Campaign Guide because it didn't have enough Old Republic Era content...

However, if you insist on comparing it to a campaign guide, it HAS content everyone who buys the book can use...Droids exist in EVERY era of Star Wars...Hell the main focus of Star Wars IV is the Droids...If you don't use droids, well, I don't know what to say..."Sorry they didn't put a nugget of intrical content in there that forced you to buy a book you didn't want"..?

It's a Droid Book....I don't know how someone can make any assumptions about it's content...Look, I really mean no disrespect, but I simply can't fathom someone expecting more than Droid content out of a book who's title pretty much screams "Droids only"... 


Bottom Line: If you want Droids, buy the book...If you don't use Droids so much, don't bother...If the latter but you're going to buy it anyway, make some use of it...Start using Droids in your games...Expand your parameters a bit as it were...But to say you don't like the fact that it's a Droid exclusive Droid book...That's just foolish...You'll note the back cover, where it describes it's content, pretty much the thing that tells you what's in a book if you can't read through it before you buy it... Every line is about droids...Pretty safe bet that you're not going to find anything but Droids in it...

Sorry to drive the point home here, but I read through it and I wasn't surprised by a lack of non-droid content...Now if Rodney had said something along the lines of "It's not just droids, it's got content for everyone" before it's release, then that's simply misleading...As it stands, if you don't like the content, that's one thing...But saying "The Droid book doesn't have enough content for Scouts or Nobles" for example, that just makes me sad inside....
Sorry Splattercat; I don't often agree with Ravingdork, but I totally understand where he's coming from, and he's actually right. YES, we expect it to be all about droids; but droids are kind of a "niche market" in Star Wars. A great many fans already have plenty on droids to get by - so this offering won't be likely to appeal to the full cross-section of fans and gamers; I just hope it doesn't end up being a Bust sales-wise for that reason.
BUT, I'm looking forward to it! Unhappily, I need to wait until Thursday to order because a $650 water heater crippled me this past pay period. But this next paycheck I'll pick up the Scavenger's Guide, Traveller character folder and my seven laminated maps (four of which are JC's new offering).
I didn't see anyone remark on the cover. Last I saw, we all thought it was going to be completely different! I think the cover's a little odd, prominently featuring Anakin & Jango Fett as it does.
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Look, I really mean no disrespect, but I simply can't fathom someone expecting more than Droid content out of a book who's title pretty much screams "Droids only"... 



"Threats of the Galaxy" is a name that implies a virtual "monster manual"... yet there was still plenty of crunchy bits of use to a variety of player and character types...

But saying "The Droid book doesn't have enough content for Scouts or Nobles" for example, that just makes me sad inside....



If that's enough to make you sad inside, maybe you need to toughen up! :P

Seriously, though, I don't think there's a need to go on a tirade just because some folk are disappointed at just how focused the book is. It's certainly not surprising that the book is about Droids, but given the way WotC has created other books, it wouldn't be surprising to find other nuggets in there, too.

Regardless of what anyone may think of the content, I think the assertion that this book will probably have a narrower audience than Saga supplements is correct.

Could just be coincidence, but I've now been to three stores that usually carry the new Saga RPG stuff, and not one has had a copy of the Scavenger's Guide (and all list in their in-house systems as "available to order," not "out of stock," so I assume they didn't have a quick sell out).

Sorry Splattercat; I don't often agree with Ravingdork, but I totally understand where he's coming from, and he's actually right. YES, we expect it to be all about droids; but droids are kind of a "niche market" in Star Wars. A great many fans already have plenty on droids to get by - so this offering won't be likely to appeal to the full cross-section of fans and gamers; I just hope it doesn't end up being a Bust sales-wise for that reason.
BUT, I'm looking forward to it! Unhappily, I need to wait until Thursday to order because a $650 water heater crippled me this past pay period. But this next paycheck I'll pick up the Scavenger's Guide, Traveller character folder and my seven laminated maps (four of which are JC's new offering).
I didn't see anyone remark on the cover. Last I saw, we all thought it was going to be completely different! I think the cover's a little odd, prominently featuring Anakin & Jango Fett as it does.



R2 and 3PO are on the cover...it's on the main page now...


Niche Market..? Seriously..? Droids are a ubiquitous market in Star Wars...There are more variants of Droids in Star Wars than there are Aliens...If not enough people buy it, who cares..? We all knew it was going to come out months ago...You either wanted a Droid book or you didn't...If you didn't want a book about Droids and you bought it for the "non-droid content"...I just really don't know what to say about that...

Look, all I'm saying is, it's common sense...I don't think a book should have points taken off because it fullfills it's purpose spectacularly...Threats didn't fulfill it's purpose spectacularly so people made use of the options that weren't strictly for GM use...Droids gives everything it promised: Content for playing and using Droids in your campaign...You think the book is worse off because it doesn't have Noble or Soldier talents that deal with droids, or specific Feats for dealing with droids..?

And at the same time, while I'm very vocal about it, I'm not saying you guys are slagging the book (unless you actually are)...I've heard very few bad things about it, and lots of praise...But I don't get that people expected Non-droid content out of a droid book...What would you have added that is non-droid..?

I see where your coming from, but books like clone wars, dark times, rebellion, and legacy still had talents, weapons, races, and other things that made them useful even if you are not playing in that era. If you rarely use droids, have no one in your party who is a droid, or just plain don't like them, then you'd probably want to know if there are new talents, weapons, races ect before you buy the book. So having a book entirely about droids could be a potential drawback to some people.

Look, I really mean no disrespect, but I simply can't fathom someone expecting more than Droid content out of a book who's title pretty much screams "Droids only"... 



"Threats of the Galaxy" is a name that implies a virtual "monster manual"... yet there was still plenty of crunchy bits of use to a variety of player and character types...

But saying "The Droid book doesn't have enough content for Scouts or Nobles" for example, that just makes me sad inside....



If that's enough to make you sad inside, maybe you need to toughen up! :P

Seriously, though, I don't think there's a need to go on a tirade just because some folk are disappointed at just how focused the book is. It's certainly not surprising that the book is about Droids, but given the way WotC has created other books, it wouldn't be surprising to find other nuggets in there, too.

Regardless of what anyone may think of the content, I think the assertion that this book will probably have a narrower audience than Saga supplements is correct.

Could just be coincidence, but I've now been to three stores that usually carry the new Saga RPG stuff, and not one has had a copy of the Scavenger's Guide (and all list in their in-house systems as "available to order," not "out of stock," so I assume they didn't have a quick sell out).




Didn't mean for a tirade, there was supposed to be a smiley at the end of my last remark..

Regardless of how narrow it's audience is, the book is out...How well it sells is irrelevent to the content...If Wizards were to release a book called "Yuuzhen Vong" it would have a VERY narrow audience...But after it was released, anyone who read it and were disappointed that the entire book was about Yuuzhen Vong are well, to be perfectly blunt, foolish...Plain and simple...

Scavengers Guide to Droids is not a Campaign Guide...It was never implied that it would supplement the abilities of the five main classes or any Prestige Class...It doesn't suggest anywhere on the cover or back cover that it provides anything BUT Droid content... 


Something I would like to point out though, the book DOES in fact have content for all classes...How many players own droids..? Even an R2 unit or a pit droid..? This book is chalk full of content for all classes because owning a droid does not have any requirements attached to it...If someone wants to buy an R8 Astromech droid, now they can...And not only that, but they have a full range of modifications and optional rules to tinker with as well...

As I said, Droids are EVERYWHERE in Star Wars...Seriously, they are as iconic to Star Wars as Jedi or Storm Troopoers...No other Sci-Fi genre uses 'Droids' (i.e. robots) like Star Wars...By my reckoning they account for half the universe...

If you bought the book and didn't really use Droids that much in your games, now's a good time to start...If you are a player and never considered owning a droid, take a look through...You might just find an upgrade that would be handy for your character...Buy an appropriate Droid, make the upgrade, away you go...Character content...

I will concede that some simply won't buy this book, but I can't see how someone who bought it Wouldn't use it...
I agree that droids are an integral part of the Star Wars setting. However, in a lot of rpg campaigns they aren't the focus of the story, and don't really justify getting a whole book of new droid options. What's contained in the core rulebook and Threats is more than enough droid info for my needs.
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I for one am very much looking forward to the info in chapter 2 on how to use droids as followers. That sounds quite useful to just about anyone, if you ask me ...

I do see what some people are complaining about though. Yes, it's a book about droids, but they could have included some talents and feats for non-droids that relate to droids ... you know, stuff for droid hunters or non-droid droid commanders and such. I know that a lot of that stuff has already been covered in other books, but still ... if they had included some material for non-droids that was droid-related in some way, it might have broadened the book's appeal.
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But after it was released, anyone who read it and were disappointed that the entire book was about Yuuzhen Vong are well, to be perfectly blunt, foolish...Plain and simple...


I take offense to that. None of us were surprised about its content, like you seem to imply we were, and few of us have said anythign to indicate dissapointment. We merely pointed out a fundamental flaw in the book--which is that it is a niche book and will only appeal to droid lovers. If it had more support for say, cybernetics, and contained feats and telents for all classes to help fight droids, then it could appeal to a much larger audiance. Since it doesn't, it is an inherent flaw, precisely for the reasons you mention.
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Uh, no...When you look at a list of upcoming products, you see a Droids book and you say "not interested"...

You don't buy a Droids book and hope you get something useful out of it that has nothing to do with droids...

The book exists...saying you don't want a Droids only book is irrelevent...It doesn't matter that you don't want a Droids only book...If you don't want a droids only book, don't buy Scavengers guide to Droids...but don't say Scavengers Guide to Droids is inherently flawed because it's a book about Droids...We've stepped beyond Foolish at this point...
Uh, no...When you look at a list of upcoming products, you see a Droids book and you say "not interested"...

You don't buy a Droids book and hope you get something useful out of it that has nothing to do with droids...

The book exists...saying you don't want a Droids only book is irrelevent...It doesn't matter that you don't want a Droids only book...If you don't want a droids only book, don't buy Scavengers guide to Droids...but don't say Scavengers Guide to Droids is inherently flawed because it's a book about Droids...We've stepped beyond Foolish at this point...


I never said I didn't want the book. Please stop implying that we are fools. It's a niche book in a niche setting on a niche market--that is an inherent flaw of the book no matter how you go about it or how much you tru to convince yourself otherwise. Considering what the product is, such a flaw was pretty much unavoidable. That's why I say it's an "inherent" flaw. Having said that, there is no reason this subject has had so much attention when its really a moot point. Drop it. Get back on topic. Stop using antagonistic terms.

Overall the book is really quite good for what it was made for, but I've already commented on it in my OP.
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To follow up on that thinking, if they announced a Yuuzhen Vong book for June 2010, I would say "Not interested"...

When 2010 comes along, if I buy that Yuuzhen Vong book when I have absolutely no interest or use for Yuuzhen Vong in my game and say "I have absolutely no interest or use for Yuuzhen Vong in my game, I just wasted 35.00", How are you going to react to that..?

Be honest, it's a hypothetical situation and I won't be offended...
Uh, no...When you look at a list of upcoming products, you see a Droids book and you say "not interested"...

You don't buy a Droids book and hope you get something useful out of it that has nothing to do with droids...

The book exists...saying you don't want a Droids only book is irrelevent...It doesn't matter that you don't want a Droids only book...If you don't want a droids only book, don't buy Scavengers guide to Droids...but don't say Scavengers Guide to Droids is inherently flawed because it's a book about Droids...We've stepped beyond Foolish at this point...


I never said I didn't want the book. Please stop implying that we are fools.



So...You're buying the book Scavengers Guide to Droids, but one of the things you would prefer was different is that it wasn't 100% about Droids..?

I'll ask again, what would you add to it that presumably isn't in another book..? You mentioned Cybernetics, I'm pretty sure that was covered in a previous book...Personally, I would rather not load up the other classes with abilities to deal with droids when you're putting out a book made to support Droids...What else would you have liked to see..?
To follow up on that thinking, if they announced a Yuuzhen Vong book for June 2010, I would say "Not interested"...

When 2010 comes along, if I buy that Yuuzhen Vong book when I have absolutely no interest or use for Yuuzhen Vong in my game and say "I have absolutely no interest or use for Yuuzhen Vong in my game, I just wasted 35.00", How are you going to react to that..?

Be honest, it's a hypothetical situation and I won't be offended...



Yuuzhan Vong are part of two settings: Legacy of the Force and New Jedi Order, which are, by the way, the most "futuristic" settings of StarWars' timeline. So, having a single book for them, with things about them and things to counter them is a niche market because it would only appeal for people who likes to play in one of these settings. Droids on the other hand are a part of every star wars' setting there is. Having a book that only has more droids and things for creating droids as pc's and npc's is kind of a niche market already because it will only please those that like tinker with droids. Having a book about droids that also has things about creating cyborgs and how to counter cyborgs and droids is still a niche market, but at least a broader one, since it could please those that like campaigns, for instance, during the Clone Wars. The same thing goes for starships, it is possible to have an entire campaign with no starship battle and not a single use of starships' stats.
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Uh, no...When you look at a list of upcoming products, you see a Droids book and you say "not interested"...

You don't buy a Droids book and hope you get something useful out of it that has nothing to do with droids...

The book exists...saying you don't want a Droids only book is irrelevent...It doesn't matter that you don't want a Droids only book...If you don't want a droids only book, don't buy Scavengers guide to Droids...but don't say Scavengers Guide to Droids is inherently flawed because it's a book about Droids...We've stepped beyond Foolish at this point...


I never said I didn't want the book. Please stop implying that we are fools.



So...You're buying the book Scavengers Guide to Droids, but one of the things you would prefer was different is that it wasn't 100% about Droids..?

I'll ask again, what would you add to it that presumably isn't in another book..? You mentioned Cybernetics, I'm pretty sure that was covered in a previous book...Personally, I would rather not load up the other classes with abilities to deal with droids when you're putting out a book made to support Droids...What else would you have liked to see..?


Why do you care so much about what I'd like to see? I've already said what I think it's missing (which, by the way, isn't much). It seems to me you are making a moutain out of a mole hill here.
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I agree that droids are an integral part of the Star Wars setting. However, in a lot of rpg campaigns they aren't the focus of the story, and don't really justify getting a whole book of new droid options. What's contained in the core rulebook and Threats is more than enough droid info for my needs.




That's fair enough for you; but the book is a lot more than a whole lot of "droid options"; it justifies itself. I've purchased and read the book and thoroughly enjoyed it. It is a great source of inspiration for campaigns that want to use droids, and for campaigns to start using droids. 

My campaign is 10 years old, it's still D6, and this book is still a really great integrated package for rejuvenating the droids in my game. It is the first source to come at them as characters rather than just equipment, and has therefore revolutionised droids in the RPG.

Totally justified, and a long time coming.

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Why do you care so much about what I'd like to see? I've already said what I think it's missing (which, by the way, isn't much). It seems to me you are making a moutain out of a mole hill here.





I simply don't feel it's a drawback worth listing...Pros are things you like, Cons are things you would like to have seen implemented differently...

Cons are things like, No index, bad editing, the typos you mentioned, perhaps even too many types of droids and not enough player options...But to list, "It's a book about droids" as a drawback...That seems weird to me....

And stop being so offended, you're not the only one that made that comment...I'm not singling you out...I like to know why people don't like something...It's a conversation thing you know..? After all the times I've been questioned on my reasons for not liking things (say 4e plays like an MMO sometime) I didn't think it was that big a deal... :P

If you like the book (and you do) and it performs it's purpose (it does), I simply don't see why it HAS to have a drawback...

And honestly, like I said, I don't personally see it as a niche market, because Droids exist prevailantly in EVERY setting in Star Wars and can be easily be integrated into any game...Listing that as a drawback comes off to me as "it's only droids, buyer beware"...

That's all...I won't press the issue any further...
I thought I saw it all on these forums... You now have picked one of the funniest things to fight over.



Overall, I'd say it looks pretty good. The options are balanced and interesting. It also answers a lot of old questions that have needed answering, such as getting droid sockets on ships (10,000 cr and 0 EP), adding droid brains to your vehicle (ala the Millineium Falcon) in order to reduce crew requirements, and how much class levels, feats, talents, and skills cost to put into a custom droid model. The book also provides several new optional rules and subsystems some of which are complex, but all are nice.

Thank god they remembered to put the droid socket in there! Someone said that there was no price and EP cost listed in the other prewiev thread...

20801.jpg


Overall, I'd say it looks pretty good. The options are balanced and interesting. It also answers a lot of old questions that have needed answering, such as getting droid sockets on ships (10,000 cr and 0 EP), adding droid brains to your vehicle (ala the Millineium Falcon) in order to reduce crew requirements, and how much class levels, feats, talents, and skills cost to put into a custom droid model. The book also provides several new optional rules and subsystems some of which are complex, but all are nice.

Thank god they remembered to put the droid socket in there! Someone said that there was no price and EP cost listed in the other prewiev thread...



That was in the preview thread where people had recieved their book early and were probably doing rushed skims for the thread's benefit--so I'm not surprised they missed (it really was just a small blurb in the middle of a large aragraph). I sat in one chair for 4.5 hours and read it cover to cover, so I didn't miss anything.

It's a shame I have such a terrible memory or else I'd say more about the book in both threads.
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Cons are things like, No index, bad editing, the typos you mentioned, perhaps even too many types of droids and not enough player options...But to list, "It's a book about droids" as a drawback...That seems weird to me....



I don't have the book yet and am PERSONALLY looking forward to getting it delivered tomorrow. Based on what I've seen in the previews thread, it seems like a good read and will have stuff that I can use for NPCs.

To me, the CON is that the book is useful to only 25% of my gaming group. You're right that droids are ubiquitous to the Star Wars setting (the Force, droids, and aliens [and the way the latter two are treated] are the three things that most distinguish Star Wars from other sci fi, in my opinion) and two of my three regular PCs own droids... but they're just not a pivotal enough part of the campaign that the players are going to dig through another book to find some fine-tuning for their droids.

I don't know how typical our group is, so I can speak to it only as a personal con. As RD says, though, it would not have been a stretch (or a surprise) to have a few talents, feats, or pieces of equipment wth some broad appeal. Will the lack of them prevent me from picking up and enjoying the book? Nope. Will it prevent me three players from doing the same? Yeah, probably. (But then, the same holds true for two of my three players with Jedi Academy Training Manual).

And stop being so offended, you're not the only one that made that comment...



It would probably carry more weight if you didn't keep calling people "foolish." :P

If you like the book (and you do) and it performs it's purpose (it does), I simply don't see why it HAS to have a drawback...



Just because a product is good (or even great) doesn't mean it couldn't have been BETTER.

And honestly, like I said, I don't personally see it as a niche market, because Droids exist prevailantly in EVERY setting in Star Wars and can be easily be integrated into any game...Listing that as a drawback comes off to me as "it's only droids, buyer beware"...



Again, speaking for myself and my group (and based on some of the opionions here, I don't think we're completely atypical), droids DO figure in on a regular basis... but I gotta be honest, I've never felt a burning desire to have a whole book devoted to them. It will be nice to have a little more variety for droid NPCs (and my PCs will likely face a few more droid enemies than they might have without the book), but it's not something that's ever really been lacking in my opinion.

I am by no means saying that there shouldn't be a droid book--or that I'm not going to enjoy and use it. I will say, however, that it will likely be far less useful to me overall than other supplements. I could have been more useful if it had some crunch that was related to/relevant to droids without being DEPENDENT on droids.
So, how are those Vong hunter droids? Do they match up against normal Vong warriors? Is there any feats for living sentients or is this book just 100% Droids?
So, how are those Vong hunter droids? Do they match up against normal Vong warriors? Is there any feats for living sentients or is this book just 100% Droids?


They eat vong heroes for lunch. If I remember it correctly, they had a few elite trooper levels and no non-heroic levels. That puts them miles above your average vong.
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The YVH droids are pretty scary, without being as ridiculous as they were in the first book to feature them.

There are feats that can be taken by organics and some cyborgs, but almost all of the feats are for droids.  The coolest non-droid feat (IMO), however, lets you choose a degree of droid, and gain bonuses when dealing with or fighting against them.
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Cons are things like, No index, bad editing, the typos you mentioned, perhaps even too many types of droids and not enough player options...But to list, "It's a book about droids" as a drawback...That seems weird to me....



I don't have the book yet and am PERSONALLY looking forward to getting it delivered tomorrow. Based on what I've seen in the previews thread, it seems like a good read and will have stuff that I can use for NPCs.

To me, the CON is that the book is useful to only 25% of my gaming group. You're right that droids are ubiquitous to the Star Wars setting (the Force, droids, and aliens [and the way the latter two are treated] are the three things that most distinguish Star Wars from other sci fi, in my opinion) and two of my three regular PCs own droids... but they're just not a pivotal enough part of the campaign that the players are going to dig through another book to find some fine-tuning for their droids.

I don't know how typical our group is, so I can speak to it only as a personal con. As RD says, though, it would not have been a stretch (or a surprise) to have a few talents, feats, or pieces of equipment wth some broad appeal. Will the lack of them prevent me from picking up and enjoying the book? Nope. Will it prevent me three players from doing the same? Yeah, probably. (But then, the same holds true for two of my three players with Jedi Academy Training Manual).

And stop being so offended, you're not the only one that made that comment...



It would probably carry more weight if you didn't keep calling people "foolish." :P

If you like the book (and you do) and it performs it's purpose (it does), I simply don't see why it HAS to have a drawback...



Just because a product is good (or even great) doesn't mean it couldn't have been BETTER.

And honestly, like I said, I don't personally see it as a niche market, because Droids exist prevailantly in EVERY setting in Star Wars and can be easily be integrated into any game...Listing that as a drawback comes off to me as "it's only droids, buyer beware"...



Again, speaking for myself and my group (and based on some of the opionions here, I don't think we're completely atypical), droids DO figure in on a regular basis... but I gotta be honest, I've never felt a burning desire to have a whole book devoted to them. It will be nice to have a little more variety for droid NPCs (and my PCs will likely face a few more droid enemies than they might have without the book), but it's not something that's ever really been lacking in my opinion.

I am by no means saying that there shouldn't be a droid book--or that I'm not going to enjoy and use it. I will say, however, that it will likely be far less useful to me overall than other supplements. I could have been more useful if it had some crunch that was related to/relevant to droids without being DEPENDENT on droids.




I look at it as "Is the book useful" rather than "How useful is the book"...

As to the whole "foolish" thing...My first post in this thread was a joke...Really, it seemed ironic that the only problem people could find with the Droid book was that it was a Droid book...So I made a funny post...People took it seriously...The reaction I was going for was "Haha, good point"...Instead I got responses about "niche markets" and "it's an awesome book, but not as useful as it could be because it's all Droids"...It exasperated the joke...

So, it's whatever really...I'm not going to defend the nature of the book...Personally, I disagree that a Weapons and armour book should be filled with magic spells that destroy weapons and armour...So I disagree that a book made to support and enhance the presence of Droids in a game be laced with ways to hamper them...There are methods for each Class to deal with droids scattered throughout the other dozen books, they simply became slightly more relevent that's all..

With regards to making it better, given the page count, one could argue that removing Droid content in favour of non-droid content may illicit a negative review based on their focus being divided away from Droids...but like I said, it's whatever...it's a good book, it performs it's purpose well, however narrow that purpose may be perceived...
I don't know. Maybe if you don't use droids much maybe it would be worth getting the book so you will use them more. I agree with Splattercat.  Whining about a book about droids not having stuff useful to others strikes me as rather silly. I mean HELLO its a book about droids. Droids are supposed to be ubiquitous in Star Wars. so they should be that. A book to help you do that just seems to me useful.

It would be nice to have all the droid stuff in one book. But well the nature of dead tree versions is that is not very practical.
No one is whining!

Anyway...

What are the droid "species" like? Is it possible to get an example or two?