11/18/2009 BoaB: "A New Twist on KCI"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

I'll have to get myself a copy of that deck, I liked the deck last week, but it was more for the combo aspect, rather than the life gain. This one seems like one of those "I'll beat my friends with it once, then shelve it because they hate it" decks, much like the Restore Balance deck. I'll definitely be sleeving one up.
mmmemorieees....

ah, KCI.  brings back such fond memories for me. i loved playing that deck.  i started playing during Onslaught block, and it was my first combo deck i ever played (well, besides tooth and nail, which i didn't really consider combo at the time).  so the revival of that deck naturally excited me, and i have to say i'm not disappointed.  it seems pretty solid, and i'll definitely have to dust off the old cards and give it a whirl.

the article was a little short, though.  i would have liked to read some match results vs. "the field" (which i suppose will become easier to do after this weekend).

also, kudos on the price tag of the deck.  this is truly building on a budget!
Loved the deck. Love the budget.

I also really like how you shared mistakes like Pentad Prism. That kind of evolution does not go unappreciated.
I'll have to get myself a copy of that deck, I liked the deck last week, but it was more for the combo aspect, rather than the life gain. This one seems like one of those "I'll beat my friends with it once, then shelve it because they hate it" decks, much like the Restore Balance deck. I'll definitely be sleeving one up.




Hey Jacob Van Lunen I am curious if you are still working on that Legacy version of the Restore Balance deck?  If not that deck I would like to see you do some kind of a Legacy deck in a future article.  This column typically does Standard, Extended, and Pauper, it would be nice though to see some Legacy every here and there though.  Thanks.
I...really like how you shared mistakes like Pentad Prism. That kind of evolution does not go unappreciated.



Agreed. I like to see the reasoning behind why card "X" does not fit into a deck. I remember some Enduring Ideal decks using Pentad Prism as an accelerator to pop out the epic seven CMC spell. If testing shows it's not good in this, it must not be good in this.


....kudos on the price tag of the deck.  this is truly building on a budget!



Scrapping your opponents using a 5 rare deck is exciting. I also like the non-budget versions that are given, letting readers see how they could conceivably upgrade the budget version.

Cheers!
Budget Martyr Foundry is a good combo deck with nice cards. It'll be a bit difficult for me to find those cards but i'll try.
I agree with the previous Post - i'd like to see Legacy build of restore Balance deck? i've already mentioned it in my letter. The main thing is afinisher like Gorgodon and answer for Chalice of the Void for 0 mana.
I want to say I love this deck and how budget it is! Some thoughts:

I think that it might be worth running Repeal. The deck has no outs main or side to Pithing Needle, which does see play. It also helps answer other artifacts such as Chalice of the Void, Martit Lage, and enchantments.

I am also unsure about running any erdana, sans-serif; border-collapse:collapse">Time Sieve. It seems like any time you have 5 untapped mana thropter/sword KCI wins just as much, but also wins if you have 4 mana (possibly the turn you play it), and generally is better on its own. The singleton Time Sieve should probably be a 4th KCI.

I would also cut the Echoing Decay if you run Repeal, as repeal answers Yixlid Jailer just fine.

I Also think it might be worth brainstorming something against Qasali Pridemage, which just about wrecks you and sees a lot of play. Maybe Trickbind in the board? It also counters hexmage/depths, Hypergenisis, fetchlands, transmute, and Ghost Quarter.
 
I want to say I love this deck and how budget it is! Some thoughts:

I think that it might be worth running Repeal. The deck has no outs main or side to Pithing Needle, which does see play. It also helps answer other artifacts such as Chalice of the Void, Martit Lage, and enchantments.

I am also unsure about running any erdana, sans-serif; border-collapse:collapse">Time Sieve. It seems like any time you have 5 untapped mana thropter/sword KCI wins just as much, but also wins if you have 4 mana (possibly the turn you play it), and generally is better on its own. The singleton Time Sieve should probably be a 4th KCI.

I would also cut the Echoing Decay if you run Repeal, as repeal answers Yixlid Jailer just fine.

I Also think it might be worth brainstorming something against Qasali Pridemage, which just about wrecks you and sees a lot of play. Maybe Trickbind in the board? It also counters hexmage/depths, Hypergenisis, fetchlands, transmute, and Ghost Quarter.
 


YO! Plz let me be your padavan u are really rulez!!!
Maybe I missed something but can't you also make infinite colorless mana with KCI, Thopter Foundry, and Sword of the Meek.

Start with 1 Thopter, Sword of the Meek, Thopter Foundry, and KCI.

Sac Thopter to KCI + 2.
Sac Sword of the Meek to Thopter Foundry -1=1
Net 1 mana and your back where you started.
Wasn't that the point of the article?
Loved the article! What do you think about Disciple of the Vault? I've always liked this card, and when I read this article I was reminded of the protean hulk turn zero deck.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
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but where DID the other fork come from?
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Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
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97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
Loved the article! What do you think about Disciple of the Vault? I've always liked this card, and when I read this article I was reminded of the protean hulk turn zero deck.


Disciple of the Vault is banned in Extended.
Just so everyone knows, there is no need to involve a judge when performing a looping combo as suggested in the article. You just need to demonstrate it to your opponent, then tell him how many times you're going to repeat it. This is described in great detail in section 713 of the Magic Comprehensive Rules.

Of course, if you can't agree with your opponent on how (or whether) the combo actually works, you need to call a judge. But that's no different than any other time when you and your opponent disagree about the rules.
DCI Level 2 Judge WPN Advanced TO RPGA Herald-Level GM
What do you all think of this version I whipped up? It's more control than combo, which is why KCI is left out. I've found, and Jacob said so too, that just having Sword & Foundry out makes it really hard to lose, so the 1-of Time Sieve is now my "win now" button.
















































Deck: Meek Foundry Control
LandsThe ComboOther Spells
9Island4Muddle the Mixture3Agony Warp
4Jwar Isle Refuge4Thopter Foundry3Infest
4Seat of the Synod4Sword of the Meek4Mana Leak
1Swamp1Time Sieve4Remand
4Vault of Whispers3Repeal
4Talisman of Indulgence
4Thirst for Knowledge
22Cards13Cards25Cards
chart_pie.png Display Deck Statistics
well, I've been playing this deck for several months actually, to a massive degree of success. My only really consistent bad match ups have been against extremely fast zoo/rdw draws, as sometimes I just can't get the pieces in time before I die. Against control, this deck just wins, and if you go beyond a budget decklist, can become unimaginably resilient against hate.

Izzet(Grixis?) Foundry

4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
4 Watery Grave
2 Drowned Catacombs
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Vault of Whispers
2 Great Furnace
2 Academy Ruins
(24 Land)

4 Trinket Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
(7 Creatures)

4 Remand
4 Rune Snag
3 Tezzeret, The Seeker
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Time Sieve
1 Pithing Needle
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Terminate
4 Ponder
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
(27 Other Spells)

3 Damnation
2 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Gigadrowse
3 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
(15 SB cards)

basically, put the combo in a tezzwerator shell, and it works tremendously well. UWR is also another option which gives you ajani vengeant, wrath, and path should you want to stay more control. Or you can stay strictly UB for the heavy combo oriented deck, which I played in MTGO to test out before I built it in paper land. That list looked something like:

4 Terramorphic Expanse
5 Swamp
6 Island
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
(23 land)

4 Remand
4 Rune Snag
3 Muddle The Mixture
4 Ponder
3 Gigadrowse
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Sword of the meek
3 Doomblade
3 Agony Warp
2 Time Sieve
3 Thirst For Knowledge
(37 Other Spells)

4 Welding Jar
3 Infest
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Echoing Truth
(15 SB Cards)

That was a heavy budget version, and even that proved to be very strong. Gigadrowse cannot be overlooked for decks like this. EOT it can tap down their lands (against control it keeps them off counter mana, against aggro it prevents relic activations, and against anything it stops tormod's crypt from activating and causing problems). It can also save you from an alpha strike to buy you an extra turn or tap them down early on to work almost like a timewalk. It's great utility and it has uses in almost every match up.

This combo is very very hard to beat, and is just a lot of fun to play with. If you're on a Budget then play a budget version, you'll still win a lot. If you're not then you can make the deck a definite force to be reconed with. Tezzeret boasts not only as an instant fetch for any piece you need, but a must-answer for your opponent. Even if they can take away the combo, if they can't answer tezz, you'll just win via artifact stompy.

Just thought I'd add some lists and some input on what is a simply amazing deck.

Also, if you want to use KCI to finish a game, look at KCI-Empty the Vaults-Second Sunrise-Banefire/Fireball/Blaze as a fun combo to win with. Not nearly as strong as this one, but still incredibly fun to play with.
Much as I love me my Firespouts, aren't they a bit out of place in the sideboard of a standard-format deck?
the point of the article?



To show that Firespout and Darkwater Catacombs are so good you can still include them in Standard decklists months, or even years after they rotate.

-4 Firespout
+4 Bazaar of Baghdad

Then this deck would totally be Standard-worthy.

Also, this deck needs actual red sources and not just Scalding Tarn to cast Firespout.  If we're looking at Standard-legal cards, I suggest 4x Volcanic Island.
Much as I love me my Firespouts, aren't they a bit out of place in the sideboard of a standard-format deck?



Not just the Firespouts, but also the Darkwater Catacombs... should probably be Pyroclasms and Drowned Catacombs for Standard.
Much as I love me my Firespouts, aren't they a bit out of place in the sideboard of a standard-format deck?



Not just the Firespouts, but also the Darkwater Catacombs... should probably be Pyroclasms and Drowned Catacombs for Standard.

Except that Pyroclasm wouldn't be castable either... in the non-budget version, what about a couple more Scalding Tarns, and a Mountain, to make the Specter castable?
Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!
My Decks
These are the decks I have assembled at the moment:
Tournament Decks (4)
Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block) Sunforger/Izzet Guildmage Midrange (Ravnica/Time Spiral/Xth Standard) Dragonstorm Combo (Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Xth Standard) Bant Midrange (Lorwyn/Shards/M10 Standard)
Casual Multiplayer Decks (50)
Angel Resurrection Casual Soul Sisters Sindbad's Adventures with Djinn of Wishes Sphinx-Bone Wand Buyback Morph (No Instants or Sorceries) Cabal Coffers Control Zombie Aggro Hungry, Hungry Greater Gargadon/War Elemental Flashfires/Boil/Ruination - Boom! Call of the Wild Teysa, Orzhov Scion with Twilight Drover, Sun Titan, and Hivestone Slivers Rebels Cairn Wanderer Knights Only Gold and () Spells Captain Sisay Toolbox Spellweaver Helix Combo Merfolk Wizards Izzet Guildmage/The Unspeakable Arcane Combo Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and his Wizards Creatureless Wild Research/Reins of Power Madness Creatureless Pyromancer Ascension Anarchist Living Death Anvil of Bogardan Madness Shamen with Goblin Game/Wound Reflection Combo Mass damage Quest for Pure Flame Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle/Clear the Land with 40+ Lands Doubling Season Thallids Juniper Order Ranger Graft/Tokens Elf Archer Druids Equilibrium/Aluren Combo Experiment Kraj Combo Reap Combo False Cure/Kavu Predator Combo Savra, Queen of the Golgari Sacrifice/Dredge Elf Warriors Eight-Post Sneak Attack Where Ancients Tread Zur the Enchanter with Opal creatures Tamanoa/Kavu Predator/Collapsing Borders Esper Aggro Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and his Darksteel Reactor Theft and Control Unearth Aggro Soul's Fire Vampires Devour Tokens Phytohydra with Powerstone Minefield Treefolk Friendly? Questing Phelddagrif Slivers Dragon Arch Fun I'm probably forgetting a few...
Jacob I have to disagree about the Kederekt Leviathan. He is great as a kill card. You unearth him first, bounce your opponents defense and then unearth your other guys to go in for the kill. I don't think I would play the deck without him. Granted Fatesticher can tap potential blockers down and Extractor demon can fly, but the Leviathan provides five damage and erases a Conqueror's Pledge or anything else to get in your way.
erdana, sans-serif">"And I hope everyone else sends me an e-mail or hits the forums to talk about what they want to see in the near future."

I for one would like to see some Legacy. 
functional links are no longer fashionable i guess. or are we consolidating multiple weekly threads to save space?