[Archetype] - Mono Black Control

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Mono Black Control
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Introduction



What is Mono-Black Control (MBC)?

It is basically an attrition-style control deck that is based on using removal, disruption, and CA to run opponents out of steam, at which time you drop threats that are "too hot to handle". Black is generally a color that works off the mage in exchange for faster advantages. Cards like Sign in Blood and Bitterblossom (historically speaking) are two shining examples. For 2 mana you gain 2 cards, but you have to give 2 life in exhange and for 1 life every turn during your upkeep you gain a 1/1 flying token. Very great advantages at a small price.


MBC in the Current Environment

At present MBC only has one top 16 placing since rotation from SCG 5ks and Zendikar Game days. Do not confuse this with Vampires, which has done a fair bit better but is more aggro-midrange than control-midrange.

Right now MBC has many excellent support cards to win games and build card advantage.... and we've got functional wincons... and a sweeper at last. Whereas this section before was dubious...  I can't bag on it now. The question is... can our CA respond to Jund in a relevant manner?


Good Cards you Should Use

Maindeck Worthy:

Spells:
Mind Sludge - The text on this card says , 'Resolve me on 5 vs. Jund, Planeswalker Control, or Cruel Control and win the game.'

Tendrils of Corruption - Removal + Tempo eraser. Just as good as a 2 for 1.

Consuming Vapors - 2 for 1 removal... plus lifegain.

Consume the Meek - Relevant Sweeper hellooo.

Sign in Blood - 2 cards, 2 life. Deal.

Grim Discovery - Run with fetches. Return dead creatures. That's a 2 for 1. If you return a gatekeeper its a 3 for 1.

Armillary Sphere - If you don't have fetches use this instead of Grim Discovery. 2 for 1.

Disfigure - This card is narrow in application and therefore I'm not a fan. However if you're not brave enough to play Bushwhacker without it main go right ahead and use it.

Creatures:
Gatekeeper of Malakir - 2 for 1s are good magic.

Vampire Hexmage - Good defense, eats up Planeswalkers.

Malakir Bloodwitch - Lifegain, Evasive finisher... hates Baneslayer.

Vampire Nighthawk - Good defense, some evasive aggression... and lifegain/removal.

Black Knight - Good defense and excellent maindeck hate for bushwhacker.

Ob Nixilis - Powerful finisher with a pseudo 187 trick, making him removal resistant.

Nightmare - Not as bad as you think. He passes the litmus test of a strong creature in that if it doesn't alter game state on play or have resistance to removal it needs to end the game quickly. It certainly does.

Abyssal Persecutor - He is big, dumb, evades... and prevents you from winning the game. He works fine, but I'd personally rather not bother with him as you'll have to tune the deck carefully to answer your own threats and your opponent's. And then you'll get those cries of lucksack when you topdeck removal to finish the game.

Gravedigger - I love this guy and his ability to re-assemble an army late game. Plus he trades with BBE.

Misc:
Liliana Vess - She can hit the board and create a 2 for 1, threatening her ultimate quickly... or tutor up answers endlessly. I've never lost a game I resolved her in, and that's an important note.

Sorin Markov - He eats aggro right up, but his application outside of that is narrow. MBC destroys aggro easily... so he just isn't necessary. Still, he's pretty powerful and its hard to lose when you resolve him.

Gargoyle Castle - Uncounterable beater and it eats up GSS. With Grim Discovery you can keep this up. Pretty strong, just be mindful you don't overdo it and hurt your tendrils/sludge power.

Fetchlands - Run them. The fetch effect + grim discovery is strong. And they make it worth using Ob Nixilis, who ends games almost immediately once you've needled some damage in.

Cards for your sideboards:
Deathmark - Jund hate. Also eats Baneslayer Angel quickly.

Sadistic Sacrament - Your best answer to bomby sorceries that end you like Cruel Ultimatum and Identity Crisis. Also your best answer to Iona.

Pithing Needle - Obelisk of Alara and Luminarch Ascension hate and Planeswalkers.

Infest - Tokens or Bushwhacker hate. Casualties is better right now.

Marsh Casualties - Your bushwhacker hate if you already maindeck Disfigure.

Disfigure - That's right, I listed it twice. I feel this is a sideboard card, and you should agree.

Haunting Echoes - Hate for decks reliant on graveyards like unearth or crypt combo. Also a good card for devouring late game CA of Bloodghast against vampires.

Suffer the Past - Hello amazing graveyard hate and lifegain/drain all in one... instant speed. Good card.

Nyxathid - Stomps Aggro to pieces. Also strong with Mind Sludge. I think this may be extra anti-nissa elf tech as they're really going to struggle to keep offensive pressure on if you're trying to smash their face in with a 6/6 or 7/7.  I need to test him in that matchup some.



Seeing as I'm most qualified to present a list (because I say so) here's my last list after my experiences from the last 5k:



Thanks to:
1. Past MBC thread contributors (such as TheBanshee, myself)
2. Hodoku for his dividers and images.
3. Necropotence... without this card most of us wouldn't care about MBC.
4. Naysayers about archetype viability. Without your crabby words we wouldn't refine the list much.

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Ta Da! Good job with the OP, especially considering how the forums are still not running properly.
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Ta Da! Good job with the OP, especially considering how the forums are still not running properly.



Thanks. Hopefully once sblock starts working again the OP will snap right into shape.

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Love it. I'm still trying to get some of the cards together for a monoblack control (Ob nixis and fetches are out of the price range, sadly). In the meantime, I'm tinkering with Blightning control, but I perfer this list.

Playing with proxies, I think that 2-3 Gargoyle castles is the optimum amount, 3, or 2 and a crypt to boost game ending consure spirit. Of course, crypt/consume is less effective than Fetches and Ob, if you have the money for that.

Love the thanks to list.
Mono Black Control. MB Aggro and White Weenies are currently my pet projects.
I did give crypt + consume a try in the deck, but I am ultimately underimpressed with it in MBC.

Consider that you need 4 creatures in the graveyard to have it actually ramp you... and its just not good enough. And then whenever I tap 6 lands for a Consume Spirit and only get 4 points from it I want to punch a baby and demand my Corrupt back.

Plus, I want Grim Discovery to keep bringing creatures back. I don't let guys stay in the yard unless I'm struggling.

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2011 States Top 4
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Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Well, I've been using a sub-par MonoB list, so the game ends up stretched long enough that Crypt actually adds gas. Anyways, I wouldn't consider running it as anything but a 1 of. You could always side it against the various Mill lists as a one of, and grim it if they put it in the yard.

So, what about Nyxathid? Sideboard at best, or MD? He's great to drop the turn before you mind sludge.
Mono Black Control. MB Aggro and White Weenies are currently my pet projects.
He's very strong vs. aggro. I'll add him to the OP. I was using him some before and forgot.

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

2 Things:

nighthawk over fleshbag? what made you switch? I always prefered nighthawk but I had much less testing then you.

went down to 1 Ob from 2?
Might as well post my list here now that the new thread is up. but i do have some concerns about red sligh (which is what ive been playing the last few weeks) and the list you have in the op looks like it would just roll over game 1. its not uncommon for the deck to win by turn 4-5 which is when you really start picking up the pace. i only bring this up because im not the only one at my fnm that plays it and theres a few other people running stuff like boros and soldiers.

boros and soldiers shouldnt be to much of a problem but sligh dosent really have any creatures that stick around for you to use your sorcery speed removal on, and you have to pray that you have 4 land and a tendrils on t4. But luckily sligh is incredibly inconsistant, ive had games where i win on turn 3-4 and others where i just topdeck land all day. but i*d rather not rely on a deck being inconsistant as my means to beat it.

so anyway heres my list.

land 24

2x gargoyle castle
22x swamp

creatures 16

4x black knight
4x vampire nighthawk
4x Gatekeeper
3x Bloodwitch
1x nightmare

spells 17

3x disfigure (meta choice)
3x duress
4x sign in blood
4x tendrils of corruption
3x mind sludge

planeswalkers

2x liliana
1x sorin
nebo: I've never had an issue with Nighthawk... I may be incorrectly adding him back after suffering from a tidehollow strix facebeating. But he's just a really solid creature so he's in.

EDIT: Yeah, just 1 Ob but now 3 Vess. Ob is amazing when you're ready to win but you never want him early, or in duplication. So I'll let Vess draw me into him once my hand is set to abuse him.

mogg: Sligh/RDW? My last list uses 7 first strikers... which means on 2 rdw/hastem ups/sligh has to take a break to handle them instead of dropping a ball lightning or hellspark elemental. I also have 11 sources of maindeck lifegain, which clubs that right over the head. I'm also never afraid to let a gatekeeper soak up 2 pts of damage against a ball lightning as its a break even CA. If they have to hold back on their hastey drops because they're not getting removal for the first strikers then sludge crushes them. Or I'll play Vess and topdeck into topdeck lifegain/tendrils until they give up.

Out of the sideboard I'll add in Disfigures and pretty much threaten a single untapped swamp the whole game. If I have the space I'll also bring in Pithing Needles to turn off Zektar Shrine Expedition or Unearth costs.

I can safely say that outside of a god hand for them and a terrible hand for me I win that matchup.

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

ill take your word on the helpfullness of the first strikers but my own monored list ran 4 pyroclasm and 2 earthquakes main just in incase i had trouble with first strikers, but maybe not everyone is as paranoid as me...?

EDIT: i also have no time to playtest these decks, yay for college!.....
Thumbs up, Niche. Nice work with the OP.

I was glad to see you include Casualties and give it the nod over Infest. It's debatable whether either is actually needed right now, but I've been duking it out over on MTGS that Casualties currently works better than Infest.

All right, I might get laughed out of the game and all the way back over to Wyvern (anyone play that back in the day, haha) for this, but would Wall of Bone be good SB tech against Jund?

Obviously it regenerates, and it can block very, very well against Thrinax, its tokens and BBE. I think our other stuff could handle the Putrid Leeches and Broodmates. This is something else I've mentioned on MTGS, but havne't heard anything back - I don't really have time to test whims like these.
Indeed, between hexmage, black knight, nighthawk, and tendrils of corruption, We do well vs sligh.

Then we bring disfigure over from the board.
Mono Black Control. MB Aggro and White Weenies are currently my pet projects.
Out of curiousity, since I'm actually running into a similar problem with Vamp decks, if this mono-green eldrazi thing takes off, what do you do to stop it?

Your decklist doesn't look like it could keep up, and once the monument hit, the game would basically be over, aside from hopefully marsh casualties to kill all their creatures to make them sacrifice something important.

Don't interpret this as me bashing your decklist, I actually like it, it's just that I run a vamp list (that actually has some similarities with your list) and as soon as I saw the eldrazi deck, I couldn't think of a way to beat it
Against RDW each turn that is spent playing pyroclasm or earthquake is a turn the game matures into a situation where RDW cannot beat MBC. If you pyro, earthquake, pyro on turns 2-4 then on 5 I sludge your wincons out. Or I play vess and force you to discard one and let you decide if its better to try to kill me and give me 2 turns to put all your ball lightnings into play on my side, or waste a ball to kill Vess. I can't see any other outcome. If you hit your removal you're not killing me, and then I take your win. If you're not hitting removal you're not swinging into the first strikers.

Wall of Bone is something I looked at again... but when you kick a gatekeeper they're going to sac the ineffective card and crash with BMD. I honestly don't know about that.

As far as Eldrazi Green... here's my thoughts on the best cards we have in the matchup:

Vampire Hexmage - sac and destroy nissa or garruk

Vampire Nighthawk - fly over and kill Nissa.

Gatekeeper - kicks into play to eat a chosen and smashes into Nissa

Bloodwitch - fly over the green dudes and eat the planeswalkers, lifegain stabilizes tempo

Grim Discovery - recurs the hexmage or gatekeeper or nighthawk

Liliana Vess - I even like her in this matchup. If they're clutching one card (an overrun) play and force the discard. If not, play and tutor up hexmage, eat the nissa. They play another Nissa, tutor up Grim Discovery, eat nissa. You can eat 6 planeswalkers like this, which is their count and how they win.

Pithing Needle - from the sideboard you just play it and name a planeswalker. Ta-da. Or Oran Rief.

Deathmark - 1 mana to kill Ant Queen. Seems fine.

Marsh Casualties - You could maybe board in Marsh Casualties, this is something I'd need to test. Casualties will crush the speed opening of elf/heirarch into visionary into nissa.

Sadistic Sacrament - not sure id board it in, but you can go and hunt down the monuments easily enough. Without Nissa to churn Chosens into play Monument isnt as awesome as it seems.

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Hmm, I run most of the cards you just suggested.
Eldrazi is a problem for your deck and mine, since black doesn't get artifact removal.
It's not an impossible matchup, but I'm already viewing it as a worse matchup than jund for me.
Wall of Bone stuff:

I see what you're saying, Niche.

But he still blocks BBE, Thrinax, and really Putrid Leech as well. They can pay 2 to pump him and kill him, but then we just get to reginerate. That seems like a play we'd enjoy. And your opponenet sac'ign their non-effective creature is always the case with Gatekeeper. If they had Broodmate, why would they sac him instead of a Putrid Leech anyway?

With those coming in, you could rip 3 Broodmates with Sacrament and be in good shape, right? And even with out SS, can't we handle Broodmates with Tendrils (Liliana fetching them) and Bloodwitches (sometimes + Disfigure so we don't trade).

Again, I'm not sold either, I'm just trying to keep an open mind since that's such a tough match-up.

I think the worst thing about the idea, to be honest, is finding 3-4 spots in the SB for WALL OF BONE! haha
Hmm, I run most of the cards you just suggested.
Eldrazi is a problem for your deck and mine, since black doesn't get artifact removal.
It's not an impossible matchup, but I'm already viewing it as a worse matchup than jund for me.



Eldrazi Monument can't be played until they stick an engine to feed it. So if you can handle Nissa, Garruk and the Ant Queen it should be held in the hand. Granted that's no small order, but I think it's doable.

Mollusk... I just don't know about this Wall of Bone bsns. 

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Niche... play against me already 
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Mollusk... I just don't know about this Wall of Bone bsns. 


Haha, I'm right there with you. But be honest, there is something intriguing there, right?! :D

It is concerning that it's not at all a threat and doesn't directly handle things. But in theory, when you match it against the deck, it seems to be solid against 80 percent of the deck's non-land cards.
Also, where is duress? I never run MonoB control without Duress. It should at least have a home on the SB, since it has decent to good targets in every matchup.

It snags planeswalkers vs most everyone, lightning bolt vs RDW, blightning/bit blast vs jund, Monument/Overrun vs green, Bolt vs Boros, Sludge vs Vampires and mirror, and there's good stuff to yank from the other decks i'm forgetting as well, I'm sure.
Mono Black Control. MB Aggro and White Weenies are currently my pet projects.
I tried the Crypt build tonight, and was, well not impressed when I should have been playing things I was cycling, and while the reach from the dragger was nice it wasn't worth it when it should have been a threat vs RDW. It's got better game vs jund and controll, but against aggro it gets stomped. i liked the idea of powered mind shatters and spirits, but you need two crypts out for it to work, and the cyclers eat slots that should be Black Knights. Grim Ding a Carabid would be cooler if it didn't keep drawing me more Carabids.

Here's what I was playing

Land

Swamp
Crypt of Agadeem 4x
Gargoyle Castle 2x
Marsh Flats 4x
Swamp 14x

Creatures
Fleshbag 4x
Gatekeeper 3x
Monstrous Carabid 4x
Vampire Hexmage 3x
Viscera Dragger 4x

Non Creatures
Deathmark 4x
Consume Spirit 4x
Grim Discovery 4x
Tendrills 4x
Liliana Vess 2x
Mind Shatter 2x

I think I placed a little to much faith in the crypts (underwhelming) power, even with the lesser number of swamps it still would have been better to be playing Tendrills and Sludge. It was also nice every now and then being able to grab a Castle and a creature with Gim, then play them both in the same turn. SB was normal but Black Knight was where Disfigure should have been, which hurt so bad against RDW. I might try it again with a splash of red for Banefire/Blightning glory.
Here's the build I ran at FNM tonight. Went 3-1, good for fourth (it's a small FNM - could have been higher, had terrible tie-breakers).

4x Gatekeeper
3x Hexmage
2x Black Knight
3x Nighthawk
2x Bloodwitch
2x Nightmare

2x Disfigure
4x Sign in Blood
3x Grim Discovery
3x Mind Sludge
4x Tendrils
1x Consume Spirit

2x Liliana Vess
1x Sorin Markov

2x Verdant Catacomb
2x Marsh Flats
1x Gargoyle Castle
19 x Swamp

SB (which is kind of junky)
3x Relic of Progenitus
1x Infest
2x Disfigure
1x Deathmark
1x Pithing Needle
2x Marsh Casualities
2x Consume Spirit
1x Vampire Hexmage
2x Sadistic Sacrament

Round 1: Goblins
Should have been a good matchup for me. Game 1 I stalled at 4 land, but my first strikers and Gatekeepers did an awesome job of slowing him down. Loved having 5x 2cc first strikers. By the time I hit lands five and six, he had a Valakut online and a Siege Gang Commander, and I think I misplayed (dropped a Nightmare hoping to block/stall, probably should have dropped Sorin to kill the SGC). Game 2, he scooped when I hit 25 life and had total board control. Game 3 I made the idiotic decision to play a hand with 1 land after already going to 6. I was at 9 life before I played a single card. Almost bounced back, but no.

Round 2: GW Allies
Was not a good deck. Win 2-0. Evangel naming black game 2 gave me a minor scare, but I had board control and won the turn after.

Round 3: BW something
This was sort of a vampire control deck? The only white I saw was Path and Zealous Persecution. Won 2-0, never really had any trouble, though the games were long. Playing against this finally convinced me that Bloodghast is crap unless the recursion is fueling something. They literally had no effect on me.

Round 4: 5c Cascade
Won 2-0. Not a bad deck (though he admitted he only had 1 Baneslayer in it, which obviously makes a difference), but it was a little slow. Game 1 I hit 6 cards with a Mind Sludge. Game 2 required some Liliana manipulation, but I crashed in with a Nightmare just as he got two Pyromancer Ascensions online.

I feel like the 2 Liliana/1 Sorin mix is perfect. They both kick so much ass. Running one Consume Spirit was awesome, too. I won two games with it, it's perfect to tutor one up with Liliana when needed. Glad I didn't run Nyxathid or Duress, I never missed them (I can see Nyx being good vs. Eldrazi Green though).

Grim Discovery should not be underrated. It's not just card advantage (which is awesome anyway), but to me the biggest benefit is helping you stabilize from a shaky start. You're going to have to play bad hands sometimes, or get bad draws on mediocre hands. With one fetch land, GD keeps you on the curve plus helps tempo if you grab a dead Gatekeeper. This has helped me so many times. I should add it also makes for nice Blightning recovery.

I definitely need to fix my sideboard and work on my boarding decisions, but right now I am really happy with the main deck of this. After weeks of wild experimentation, I feel like it's in a stable form that I won't be changing much unless my local meta gets too weird.
Would have been nice if there was a link from the "old" MBC thread to this new one...


A few suggestions can someone explain and add to the first page why were not running the following:

1)Duress(is it because of the aggro heavy meta?)
2)Hynotic Spectere(random discard)
3)Consume Spirit(the old school way for winning MBC)
4)I don't see Nxathid as well although it was "recommended" as a SB card.
5)What is our answer to Iona, Shield of Emeria


Am I correct in assuming that if I can't get a hold of bloodwitch 2x Nightmares would do?
"Playing MBC is about being rooted in reality. You need to build your decks for the worst case scenario... because its going to happen. Good players build decks to force worst case scenarios on their opponents. Hoping for your best case scenario to beat it.... that's just nonsense." ---Niche
I don't like Duress MD because there are too many situations where it just isn't useful. I don't like it SB because there are better ways of dealing with the things you'd Duress (Pithing Needle and Sadistic Sacrament).

I advocated Specter for a while, but in testing it just wasn't that strong. The main problem might be that once you've Mind Sludged or get Liliana out, his ability becomes redundant, in which case you'd much rather have a Nighthawk, which is always relevant.

BTW, you can get foil Bloodwitches in one of the Zend precons.


1)Duress(is it because of the aggro heavy meta?)
2)Hynotic Spectere(random discard)
3)Consume Spirit(the old school way for winning MBC)
4)I don't see Nxathid as well although it was "recommended" as a SB card.
5)What is our answer to Iona, Shield of Emeria


Am I correct in assuming that if I can't get a hold of bloodwitch 2x Nightmares would do?



Bloodwich is pretty easy to find becuase it's in an intro pack, personally I just like the Nightmares more, but I use them in the slot people have been putting Ob or Sorin in.

1) Duress isn't even becuase it's an agro heavy metta, it's becuase it's a creature heavy metta. All the controll decks i've seen run a good amount of creatures (this one included), that or they fold up and die.
I'm a diehard for the Spectere too, but he doesn't do enough if he can get in that's golden, but unlike Hexmage or Gatekeeper he doesn't do something regardless of removal, and unlike knight he's easy to kill. He might trade for Nighthawk but I like his Jund Charm resistance.
3) Tendrils of Corruption > Cosnume. Look at that instant speed, look at it doing more damage for less mana, embrace it, run with it.
4) Nxathid is funny vs agro, bad vs controll, and kinda hard to justify taking something out for. Again maybie the Nighthawk slot.
5) The other day I got Vess's -8 Ablity off pulling up an Iona (named white ftw), not a normall occurance in any way though. Either win before she happens or hope your pro white beats, gargoyle castle, and a pre resolved (but for some reason un-pathed) Nightmare can win the day. It works, I did it with a pair of black knights against the same opponet.
People hoarde here and I would have to buy 4 precons to get a playset.. the store's don't even have boosters BUT I'll get them eventually

 but here's what I am currently playing (still to be tested at FNMs just got some of the key pieces)

Lands:

18 Swamp
3 Terramorphic (no fetch lands yet)
3 Gargoyle castles (in my testing I haven't found them to hinder some of the more black mana intensive spells )

Creatures:

4x Gate Keeper of Malakir
4X Black Knight
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Vampire Hexmage
2x Nightmare


Spells:

4x Disfigure - I miss doomblade..damn Jund
4x Sign in Blood
3x Tendrills of Corruption
3x Grim Discovery
2x Mind Sludge
2x Liliana Vess
2x Consume Spirit


Side boardIn progress)

4xDeathmark
4XInfest
4xFleshbag Maurader(redundant?)
3xSadistic Sacrament


@Gilgiga

About Consume Spirit
Ok instant is good. But can it win you games?

About Iona, won't SB doom blade and holding it till she comes be good...?





"Playing MBC is about being rooted in reality. You need to build your decks for the worst case scenario... because its going to happen. Good players build decks to force worst case scenarios on their opponents. Hoping for your best case scenario to beat it.... that's just nonsense." ---Niche
Seeing as you are now running 3 Lilliana... would consume spirit work here now? Turn 5 tutor for one, use it and tutor for the second on turn 6... and thats pretty much game?
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@Gilgiga

About Consume Spirit
Ok instant is good. But can it win you games?

About Iona, won't SB doom blade and holding it till she comes be good...?








You only need like two bloodwiches, and I like fleshbag main for more tricks to be done with GrimD.
You probably really shouldn't be using Terri's intead of fetch, before I got my fetches toget I just did without, and while the consistancy gained via Fetch + Gim really helps, the ETB:taped nature of Terimorphic expanse is kinda killer. GimD as an expensive Disentomb early game and just fetching Gargoyle Castle is probably for the best.

As for Spirit, I've tried it, had it on the sidebaord, had it on the main, and I always wished it did more, I tried running the Crypt of Agadeem build I posted above, and while it was cool to finish with an 8~13 point Consume, before the engine was online It was an extra dead card.

And for Iona, Doom Blade won't work, all three of her ablities are static, so they never use the stack (not that it matters for flying). The "as" statement on her Color Choice ablity is what causes that, if it was a "when" then you could go ahead and respond to that ablity all day. As is, still respond, and drop your Tendrils on anything you can, you'll need to life gain to pull out of it.


You only need like two bloodwiches, and I like fleshbag main for more tricks to be done with GrimD.
You probably really shouldn't be using Terri's intead of fetch, before I got my fetches toget I just did without, and while the consistancy gained via Fetch + Gim really helps, the ETB:taped nature of Terimorphic expanse is kinda killer. GimD as an expensive Disentomb early game and just fetching Gargoyle Castle is probably for the best.

As for Spirit, I've tried it, had it on the sidebaord, had it on the main, and I always wished it did more, I tried running the Crypt of Agadeem build I posted above, and while it was cool to finish with an 8~13 point Consume, before the engine was online It was an extra dead card.

And for Iona, Doom Blade won't work, all three of her ablities are static, so they never use the stack (not that it matters for flying). The "as" statement on her Color Choice ablity is what causes that, if it was a "when" then you could go ahead and respond to that ablity all day. As is, still respond, and drop your Tendrils on anything you can, you'll need to life gain to pull out of it.





Not even precons are available(probably because of the guy who does not even own a card shop and ordered 36 boxes of Zendikar)...I know crazy ain't it. but I'll get them in 2 weeks.

So basicaly our game plan for Iona is prayer and Sadistic sacrament? Frown

What can you(or anyone) suggest I put in for consume spirit? So we win by aggro @_@ I dunno I guess I need sleep it's already 1 am here.

thanks for the suggestions and replies

*lurk mode





"Playing MBC is about being rooted in reality. You need to build your decks for the worst case scenario... because its going to happen. Good players build decks to force worst case scenarios on their opponents. Hoping for your best case scenario to beat it.... that's just nonsense." ---Niche
THANK YOU! i had such a hard time trying to figure out the old MBC thread since i wasn't following it till a while ago, but this makes its so much easier
so ty
Started to write 2 articles a week on getting ready for GP Toronto were i will be talking about getting ready for sealed. The first one is up so go check it out on PMP post.



Not even precons are available(probably because of the guy who does not even own a card shop and ordered 36 boxes of Zendikar)...I know crazy ain't it. but I'll get them in 2 weeks.

So basicaly our game plan for Iona is prayer and Sadistic sacrament?

What can you(or anyone) suggest I put in for consume spirit? So we win by aggro @_@ I dunno I guess I need sleep it's already 1 am here.

thanks for the suggestions and replies

*lurk mode








You don't always win via aggro, but one of the keys to this deck is your ablity to switch gears on a dime. You can put hurt on early, causing them to waste removal that could better be used against your giant vamps and ob/nightmare. I think it's best to try and win that way early and fast, no stress, and if that's game one, they'll make the mistake and board against agro leaving them wide open to sludge, and what a glorious feeling that is.
I looked at Consumes to win again with back to back tutors, but it doesn't work effectively.

On 5 you play Vess, and tutor up consume spirit.

On 6 if you're lucky you're holding a land. Drop it and consume for 4. Tutor up another consume spirit.

On 7 Consume for 4. Can't tutor, so discard and hope vess doesn't die.

On 8 draw hopefully a land, then tutor up consume.

On 9 consume for 5.

13 pts of damage for 3 cards and major tempo off is a problem.

It's just not the same as it was with Corrupt last season, which makes me very angry. 

I would consider the consume tutors to win off an armillary sphere build in lieu of grim discovery. That'd probably function. 

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Niche, my 1-of Consume didn't really function as a win con, more as a safety net. Sometimes you hit those games where there's a lot of creature attrition, or you have them down under 5 life, but they have a big threat on the board that's going to kill you soon. So Liliana's in play, she's been forcing discards and maybe absorbing some hits, and you could tutor for a). removal to get rid of their threat, which doesn't help you win b). a Nightmare or Bloodwitch that maybe can block their threat, but if you're blocking it also doesn't help you win, is too vulnerable to removal, and will have summoning sickness in any case, or c). Consume, which makes your next turn Untap, Draw, Consume, Win.

I don't mean hypothetically, either - that's exactly how it's been working, in multiple games. I would not run 3 Consumes and rely on it as a primary win con though. I tried that build, it wasn't as good.
ok guys I didn`t post in here for some time now but been in testing mode , work, and school so no time ... I just came from a FNM with a build similar to yours NICHE since I was planing to play Crypt control but couldn`t since my cards arrived late .... well this is how it went

Game 1  vs Jund

This was a medium jund build some kid with his view of the deck and a limited $ buld so no GSS and no Hemorrhage .... made 2-0  easy

Game 2 vs Blightning aggro

Game 1 and 2  were close with 1-1 but game 3 I didn`t draw one removal so I lost 1-2

Game 3 vs Jund

This was a good build and of couse he draw bouth games A GOD hand as niche called it so it was over pretti fast with 0-2

Game 4 vs Naya

I lost fist game to my bad hand keep       SB a ton of cards in overal I had 16 cards that kill his creatures but I draw only 1 and 12 lands whit is a win   .... BTW he played all 4 GSS in MB ... 0-2

overall 1-3

well take comments I cuelless to what a nd why this deck doesnt work I just hope that I can come up with a full set of cards and play the Crypt control soon ....
So here is my question based on the OP.  If understand the build, the inclusion of Grim Discovery ideally pushes the removal in the deck to 11--assuming you go get a Gatekeeper every time.  Okay makes sense.  Then why not make the Disfigures, Doom Blades?  Part of this is based on my meta which has 1-2 vamps players 3 Jund out of 25-30 compared to 3 Bant and 5 WW. 

If I am right about sideboard choices against Jund, game 2 the player would board in Deathmarks to handle Leeches.  THe number of first strikers seem to take care off the BBEs and you have Tendrils for the dragons.  Doom Blade would hit the token so its better than Disfigure.  Against Bant Doom Blade is certainly better. 

Against WW it is a push deealing with pro black but Doom Blade can hit that HotPed Soldier, Skyfisher (which disfigure cant kill), or Ranger.  It seems about the same versus Boros which the OP feels Disfigure is unnecessary against anyway. 

7 first strikers deal with RDW so seems like Disfigure is not necessary there, a little slowed but Doom Blade is fast enough to hit Ball Lightning--one Hell Spark does not seem that big of a deal.  With on 3 Death Marks in the side, Doom Blade seems like Angel killer 4, 5, and 6.  The only match up I think it is better in is the mirror or Vamp midrange. 

But in Vamp mid range there is usually no Lacerator, so Hexmages and Bloodghasts can be swept by Marsh Casualties (which I know is not in the OP but for my meta is better than Sadistic Sacrament).   Marsh Casualties can also let you sweep early mana dorks off the board, if they are on the play, let them play them t1 and 2 and watch them die with an unkicked Casaulties. 

So the t1 instant speed of Disfigure again seems marginal. So if Disfigure is not coming in versus Jund and Marsh Casualties can sweep little vamps in mid range off the board why not run Doom Blade instead?  Disfigure seems only marginally better for the mirror which lets face it is not likely to be that common.
Doom Blade is a very good SB choice for this deck, I agree with you there.  I'd certainly run it there before I ran Disfigure, as DB is better vs any deck other than Vampires.
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So disfigure can be sideborded  now eh? even with the popularity of Jund?

So I was correct about saddistic sacrament being the most direct(and only?) answer to Iona Shield of Emeria?

I like infest better than marsh. no need to pay for the uber expensive 3.  If your afraid of killing your own creatures then you probably don''t need that mass kill card. besides we have grim discovery.

"Playing MBC is about being rooted in reality. You need to build your decks for the worst case scenario... because its going to happen. Good players build decks to force worst case scenarios on their opponents. Hoping for your best case scenario to beat it.... that's just nonsense." ---Niche
ok i conceed that you were right about RDW.

i went 3-2 with my list -disfigures +hexmages. (tested mbc against my red before the tournament an i didnt have to much trouble with it)

but what did hurt was the random decks like mill getting lucky with mind funeral and archive trap + twincast... lost that one 2-1. game 3 he milled all my mindsludges and countered my planeswalkers .

the other one was to some kind of zoo deck...i lost it in game 3 thanks to him playing 4 of those Stags in a row! the first 2 i killed with gatekeeper but didnt draw another one or a liliana.

the other game were for the most part won by liliana(tutoring) and sorin(brought a guy from 50+ life down to 10)

unhelpfull card: nightmare
I tried MBC for the first time at a local tourny today.  It didn't go so well, but I had a lot of fun playing the deck.

My deck is in line with many I've seen posted.

 Lands  25
    16 [US] Swamp (1)
    4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
    3 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    2 [M10] Gargoyle Castle

 Creatures  18
    3 [M10] Black Knight
    3 [ZEN] Malakir Bloodwitch
    4 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
    3 [ZEN] Vampire Hexmage
    1 [ZEN] Nightmare
    4 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk

 Spells 18
    4 [M10] Sign in Blood
    4 [M10] Tendrils of Corruption
    3 [ZEN] Grim Discovery
    3 [ZEN] Mind Sludge
    1 [M10] Liliana Vess
    1 [ZEN] Sorin Markov
    1 [M10] Haunting Echoes
    1 [M10] Consume Spirit

Yes it's 61 cards.


// Sideboard
SB: 2 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [ZEN] Sadistic Sacrament
SB: 3 [ZEN] Disfigure
SB: 1 [M10] Haunting Echoes
SB: 3 [M10] Deathmark
SB: 3 [M10] Hypnotic Spectre

The first game of the first match lasted 40 minutes and was the most fun even though I lost that game and the match.  I was playing against a RWU control deck that used Goblin Assualt, Obelesk of Alara, Elspeth and Ajani Vegeant as primary win cons. 

My opponent played defense for the early part of the game and I got in a few pings with my low mana critters, but nothing significant.  My critters were assaulted by Lightning Bolts, PtE's & DoJ's.  I managed to take out an early Elspeth, but I was hindered by an early Goblin Assault.  If I recall correctly some where in there I resolved a Mind Sludge to nab a few cards as well. 

Mid game my lonely main decked Haunting Echoes resolved and took Elspeth, Lightning Bolts, PtE's and DoJ's out of the equation.  My opponent felt daunted and it would seem I should have rode that game to victory, but that would not be the case.  The very next turn an Ajani Vengeant landed, followed by an Obelesk, two more vengeants and another Goblin Assault.

My opponent did top deck a fair amount of land after the Echoes, but not as much as I would have liked.  The Obelesk gained him five life per turn, or 3 damage as he saw fit while my critters battled to beat down 3 Ajani V's over the next several turns.  The life gains and critter control was surpassing my game plan and when the second Gobbo Assault hit it was too much.  It may not have helped that I never saw a single SiB the whole game either

I'm not saying Haunting is a bad card, but it can be amazing that players/decks can survive a Haunting to victory.  I've seen this more than a few times online as well.  Considering there are 3 Haunting Echoes in the SB of the featured deck build for the thread my question is this:

When do you/what deck do you SB in 3 Echoes for?  It compete's for space with Mind Sludge, Liliana & Bloodwitch.  What do you normally take out of the deck when you bring 3 HE's in?  It's also a simular card to Sacrament.  All of these cards seem usefull against control/combo (granted Sacrament is best vs combo) and it's hard to imagine bringing all 6 of them in (3 HE's and 3 Sacrament) unless you do not need Hexmages and Needles.

Does any one take Grim out for SB cards?  I suppose vs a creatureless, or near creatureless deck one might Tendrils, but then again they may bring angels in from the SB as well.  Bah!

NEway ...

I lost that match and then went up against Jund; this was the Jund player/deck that made top 4 (I left after top 4 was announced).  Game one I gained an early upper hand with a Gatekeeper taking out a leech and my opponent stalled on land.  Even so a couple of removal spells kept me beating with only one 2 power creature at a time until he got enough land and took the game over.  At that point cascade does what it does and the tide turned rather quickly. BBE into Blightning; B.Blast into BBE in to leech followed up by double dragon for GG.

I don't even remember game two of this match other than it didn't last long.

Although I had no hope of top 8 I did manage to win my next three matches 2-0.  Granted; that may not being saying much by that point though.  I beat a budget mill deck, a non budget esper mill deck (sacrament and sludge ftw) and a home brew GR big stuff deck deck that ... didn't run enough land or mana ramping to get off the ground.

Early observations against an untested meta by me :P  IE I didn't play against cascade, RDW, or Bushwacker.

Grim Discovery works better than I expected and is much needed in this meta of free spells.

The lonely Consume did nothing for me.  When I had it in hand (and when I could cast it) it would never change the game state. 

The single HE only came in to play once (see above)

My single Sorin was useful fairly often, but at times it was only a -2/+2 for six depending on board position and if my opponent had burn.

Vess only came up once or twice, but she saved me once against mill.  I hit her ultimate and got all my vamps back trigging the bloodwitch ability for life loss for my opponent.

The 3rd Gargoyle Castle is tempting as it helps vs GSS, or just another threat in a removal heavy format, but getting two early game could be rough.

I wasn't too sure about the hyppies, but my thought was that in some matches the Black Knights may not be so usefull and hyppie allowed for the possibility of hand disruption while keeping the threat count up.  I have to wonder if either Duress or Nyxathid would have been better though.

My biggest complaint with the deck, or at least my build is that it lacked punching power.  We only run about 18 creatures and 2/3 of them are weenies.  They lack durability and punching power. 

Sure against white based decks the Black Knights and Bloodwitch were gold dodging removal and sailing past shrouded walls, but the ever popular B.Blast kills Bloodwitch too easily.  She doesn't have a big enough butt :P  I'm not downing the bloodwitch; it's a great card, but with that as the only decent beater it was taking me too long to do any damage and I gave my opponents too much time to bounce back.

I'm thinking 2 Ob, Nixilis the Fallen.  It works well with Grim as we can get him back and a fetch land.  Although one Nightmare may not be too bad.  I did get my Nightmare on line once and it got big enough to beat through those 0/8 flying, shrouded walls.

My thoughts now might be:

-1 Consume
-1 Haunting
+2 Ob Nixilis
 
I'm also considering a 2nd Vess; I'm just not sure if that should replace Sorin or the Nightmare.

For those that did; thanks for reading.  Hopefully some thing in there is helpfull to some one.  Also thanx in advance for any constructive responses.

P.S  (I know this is the MBC thread, but I have to wonder if playing Vamps would be better.  There is only about a 8-12 card difference)

Straight vamps puts in worse cards in order to justify a lord that can quite possibly be a gray ogre a third of the time. Vampire aggro is just flat-out worse than jund and bushwhacker. Mono-black control is still probably worse than jund and bushwhacker, but has the advantage of being a dark horse in the current meta. I've had people land a thought hemmorhage game 3 and name vampire nocturnous. It's just that much more likely that you'll be able to pull off a win when you're playing an unfamiliar control deck.

I'd like to try out ob nix at this point, since I only have room for a single nightmare and I'd rather thave a singleton ob nix than a singleton nightmare. However, I only have 5 fetches on MTGO and 1 fetch (5 of the wrong colors that I need to trade for the black ones) IRL, so that'll have to wait until I can build up my collection.
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