11/11/09 Building on a Budget: The Meek and the Martyred

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget Article, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

It must be a very small article.

 

It must be a very small article.


At the very least it's a meek one, eh?


This match-up should be a extremely easy.




 


May all our match-ups be extremely easies.

nice article, now if only the path to exile's did not account for over half of the decks price.  those things are obscene even online running roughly 9 dollars for a whole playset.

I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.

I thought all it would take to make this article a 10/10 was the match-ups, but actualy reporting from a tourney will be even better!


I really appreciated that he's going through what his logic on the meta is, and what he would sideboard in/out and why.


Thanks JVL!


 


p.s. and I fully agree, wish I could get some path's on the cheap for my archive trap deck! I think I only own 1 path, and 3 archive traps, having opened similar numbers of conflux and zendikar.

If I know the deck, overall the norm is to not play proclamation mainboard.  It's a dead card early on, and Emeria the Sky Ruin can take its place pretty easily.  Although Emeria may require those expensive ravnica lands to run more smoothly; however since there are only two colors here, I'm sure the deck can function by replacing the 2 Proclamations for 2 Emerias and switchin the Adarkar Wastes for some Terramorphic Expanses.   It's notable that in 3/4 matchups listed, the 2 proclamations are being boarded out anyawy.

this deck should run artifact lands if it's not using emeria. even if it is then islands should be blue artifact lands.


nice article, now if only the path to exile's did not account for over half of the decks price.  those things are obscene even online running roughly 9 dollars for a whole playset.




I only picked up 2 out of Conflux because I was really expecting them to be reprinted in M10.  That'll learn me!

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If I know the deck, overall the norm is to not play proclamation mainboard.  It's a dead card early on, and Emeria the Sky Ruin can take its place pretty easily.  Although Emeria may require those expensive ravnica lands to run more smoothly; however since there are only two colors here, I'm sure the deck can function by replacing the 2 Proclamations for 2 Emerias and switchin the Adarkar Wastes for some Terramorphic Expanses.   It's notable that in 3/4 matchups listed, the 2 proclamations are being boarded out anyawy.





it's not really a dead card if you're popping your Martyrs.  every white card in hand helps, especially since in his build he is running quite a bit of blue.

It also feels very nice when you discard a Sword of the Meek to your Thirst for Knowledge, counter a Hypergenesis the next turn with a Spellstutter Sprite, and magically find your Sword back on the battlefield.


This is just so sexy.

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this deck should run artifact lands if it's not using emeria. even if it is then islands should be blue artifact lands.




What do artifact lands bring....

oh... never mind.   Thopter synnergy.  Love it.

I really like this. Ever since I heard about the Foundry+Sword Combo I've wanted to do something with it. I'll have to sleeve this up and play around with it


If this wasn't budget, what would change?


I really like this. Ever since I heard about the Foundry+Sword Combo I've wanted to do something with it. I'll have to sleeve this up and play around with it


If this wasn't budget, what would change?




I've been running a thopter foundry deck for a while (which thus always has me torn about articles that 'out' the deck I've been playing, as some of it's advantage is people not necessarily knowing the combo and attacking a few of their important creatures like a lord, or a combo enabler into my 'empty' board of a few lands, thopter and sword).  I run it in a gifts shell (and gifts is cheap online so that can easily go in) with academy ruins, engineered explosives, chalice, and damnation since mine is blue black over blue white.  It also splashes green for nature's spiral, gaea's blessing, life from the loam (and the green lets me explosives for three).


 


On the blue white version, if I was adding gifts I'd probably add one wrath, one day of judgment if I wanted a better shot at a sweeper.  Gifts for both of those, and both combo pieces if you're getting over run.  They either let you wipe their board, or they let you stabilize. 


I'd certainly add a couple of artifact lands since you can pop them to get your sword back, trinket mage to find a land, pithing needle, chalice, or explosives. 


No budget restrictions and I'd throw in glacial fortresses over the adakar wastes.  With the rest of the lands being basic plains and islands, they'll come into play untapped except on turn one.  With Emeria, I'd probably run the 7 islands as 4 hallowed fountains and 3 islands instead.

Would this deck play Meddling Mages, given the oppurtunity?

That sure looks like an excellent deck concept to attack the current Extended metagame, Jacob. I'm eager to read about your results ! I'm also happy to see that the deck I'm currently working on, a Rock variant, has the tools to beat it Wink. But heh, you can't win against everything.


If I know the deck, overall the norm is to not play proclamation mainboard.  It's a dead card early on, and Emeria the Sky Ruin can take its place pretty easily.  Although Emeria may require those expensive ravnica lands to run more smoothly; however since there are only two colors here, I'm sure the deck can function by replacing the 2 Proclamations for 2 Emerias and switchin the Adarkar Wastes for some Terramorphic Expanses.   It's notable that in 3/4 matchups listed, the 2 proclamations are being boarded out anyawy.


Something like 7 non-plains lands, even including Emeria itself, is way too much for it to work properly. A non-budget version of the deck could indeed go for Hallowed Fountain + fetchlands for all its blue sources and make Emeria work wonders, but without that, it's just a bad idea.


What do artifact lands bring....

oh... never mind.   Thopter synnergy.  Love it.



Note that they're also fodder to pitch to Thirst for Knowledge. I do like the idea a lot, better than Emeria (you of course can't play both).


There are some dangers in going overboard with artifact lands and borderposts, though. Efficient artifact hate can turn into cheap land destruction against you. The most played artifact destruction spell, Ancient Grudge, could be double Stone Rain for three mana when there is no foundry to destroy.


Would this deck play Meddling Mages, given the oppurtunity?


Funnily enough, I think it would if it was 1/1 instead of 2/2, lol.  But as is, no. MM is too easy to remove to be a reliable answer against the combo decks you would want it for, and the deck already has better answers for matchups anyway.

Magic The Gathering DCI Lvl 1 Judge Don't hesitate to post rules question in the Rules Q&A forum for me and other competent advisors to answer : http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75842/134778/Rules_Q38A

though i guess condemn could always take the place of path to exile...maybe? thoughts?

I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.

running less rares is usually good for budget but it's not the whole story. uncommons can be pricier than rares. path and ghostly prison both do not come cheap.


i liked the deck, it is pretty neat. the sword/thopter foundry combo is fun but not ridiculous. it does, unfortunately, get a lot more fun with gifts, but i think people would have been upset about a budget deck running 4x gifts.


though i guess condemn could always take the place of path to exile...maybe? thoughts?




He has 4 of both in the main board.

Of course I'm sure I've gone mad. The little man who crawled out of my eye was quite clear on this.


though i guess condemn could always take the place of path to exile...maybe? thoughts?





Condemn already is in Jacob's list in addition to Path to Exile, so it can't be a direct replacement.
Magic The Gathering DCI Lvl 1 Judge Don't hesitate to post rules question in the Rules Q&A forum for me and other competent advisors to answer : http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75842/134778/Rules_Q38A

hola .. me encanto your article .. but just wanted to ask you a favor, and that I wanted to know how it would be a version somewhat more expensive than this .. anger, Emeria, Kitchen Finks? pls help xD saludos desde peru.Laughing


I've been running a thopter foundry deck for a while (which thus always has me torn about articles that 'out' the deck I've been playing, as some of it's advantage is people not necessarily knowing the combo and attacking a few of their important creatures like a lord, or a combo enabler into my 'empty' board of a few lands, thopter and sword).  I run it in a gifts shell (and gifts is cheap online so that can easily go in) with academy ruins, engineered explosives, chalice, and damnation since mine is blue black over blue white.  It also splashes green for nature's spiral, gaea's blessing, life from the loam (and the green lets me explosives for three).


 




Sorry to break it to you, but I first heard about this combo during the recent PT that Kibler won, it was a deck tech video. The gifts shell and the hexmage/dark depths combo in it too. So this combo has been "outed" before this article


running less rares is usually good for budget but it's not the whole story. uncommons can be pricier than rares. path and ghostly prison both do not come cheap.


i liked the deck, it is pretty neat. the sword/thopter foundry combo is fun but not ridiculous. it does, unfortunately, get a lot more fun with gifts, but i think people would have been upset about a budget deck running 4x gifts.




 


I only play online, so I'm not entirely sure about paper prices, but online gifts is a $2 card, prison is a 15 cent card.  Path is more expensive than both at about 2.5. 


 


My black blue thopter build also runs a single Tolaria West, Dark Depths, and 2 hexmages (and no I didn't shell out stupidbucks for the DD - had it from an old CSP league...thought I had two and would have made a bucket of tickets on what used to be a card you couldn't give away) as an alternative win condition.  If I were running it white blue however, I'd probably splash green to (again) boost a possible explosives, have life from the loam if running a couple artifact lands, or getting back lost gifts lands (piles of times I've gifted for acadamy ruins, dark depths, loam, and something else).  Sans budget restrictions, a couple of Hallowed Fountains, and a couple of Temple Gardens, plus a Seat of the Synod or two, and trim the islands pretty low.  Then Emeria runs smoothly (and loam gets it back if need be).  As cute as the borderposts are, they're quite vulnerable to pulse, or any other artifact hate.  The fact that they're essentially a bad tapland most of the time, which can be blown up, really hurts.

What would you guys think about splashing green for Sigil Captain? Would it be better to use that mana on counter spells/removal/thopter creation or would creating 3/3's be worth the effort?

It seems weird to me that, if you think Dredge and Dark Depths (which can play its own Thopter combo)  is a big enough part of the metagame to attack, you are going to then play a deck that gets fairly well hosed by graveyard removal.  It seems like you are going to get a ton of splash damage from people sideboarding (or mainboarding) against Dredge and Thopter combo.


Not saying it's not a good deck, just saying that it's not quite the metagame silver bullet you conceived it as.

I'm Just about to make myself a deck runnin the exact same combo... so it is nice to see that it is workin.


Personally i was going to for a time sieve deck. with sword of meek and the thopters for fodder to the sieve.


So my build BU and i was also thinkin of usin' myr servitor. both as def, and as fodder for time sieve. Just my plan, besides my casual mates wouldn't stand a chance so i don't need better options than Servitor. I Know it's bad.... but i also know that it is fun as hell xD


Peace

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If this wasn't budget, what would change?




more Baneslayer Angel, Kitchen Finks, Wrath of God/DoJ, and duals, less Thopter Combo and Borderposts.
there were a few people at PT-Austin that did decent with a W/B version of Marty-Proc fueled by Phyrexian Arena.
personally, i still like my mono-white version best, but splashing blue, black, or even red does bring a lot to the table for this deck.  i just always disliked seeing Martyr decks running significant amounts of non-white cards, all the way back to when Nassif or Nuitjen, whoever it was, played w/u martyr-tron.  i believe mono-white has the tools available (albeit usually slower tools) to contend vs. just about anything.  going mono also smooths out the Emeria plan.

Sorry to break it to you, but I first heard about this combo during the recent PT that Kibler won, it was a deck tech video. The gifts shell and the hexmage/dark depths combo in it too. So this combo has been "outed" before this article



I know the combo was known, but when it gets 'known' from PT deck techs and isn't a top 8 deck from that same PT I find I see it less than I see something if the BoaB article in a given week features it. 

That same deck tech is where I got the idea for my version which runs a lot of the same stuff, as I based mine on that list but with a few changes due to my own budget concerns and card pool, as well as stuff I like playing.

I've only run across a mirror match 2 times in the weeks since that video.  I'm guessing I'll see a few more now. Not a big deal though, it's still a fun deck.

A thought, if you will.... would it be worth running a copy of Felidar Sovereign as another win condition?
Felidar Sov. aka Fat Cat. I put this deck together for pennies and added the cat rather than the Ghostly Prison. Calling it the Cat(box/toy/tamer) Special. 40 life is easily achievable, but I have yet to hit the cat drawing.

Can't wait....
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