11/5/2009 FtL: "Allied Strategies"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's From the Lab, which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.

How do you build an ally deck and miss Ghostway?

“Be alert to the rules of 3. What you give, will return to you. That lesson, you have to learn. You only earn what you deserve.”


How do you build an ally deck and miss Ghostway?




Adam Styborski already did that in Tuesday's Serious Fun.

 

What am I missing here?


 



"One more, slightly unrelated. There are three currently printed Elf Allies. If you summoned all twelve with Nissa Revane, you'd get twelve redundant copies of vigilance! More interestingly, all four Turntimber Rangers would trigger twelve times each.


How many Wolves is that? By my count, I'd say at least 117. Seriously, though, slamming all twelve Elf Allies onto the battlefield is pretty awesome."



117? How does that work?


All four Turntimber Rangers trigger twelve times each, so that's 48 triggers. Each only puts one Wolf onto the Battlefield, so where do the other 69 come from?

I've got a question that maybe one of you guys can help me with. Can you use a token copy of a creature with champion in the champion loop? Here's the scenario; turn two Ondu Cleric, turn three Kabira Evangel, turn four Changeling Berserker who champions the cleric, turn five Minion Reflector, turn six play a second Changeling Berserker / activate Reflector for a Berserker token / champion loop = infinite life?


I realize this combo wouldn't be the best thing ever, I'm just curious as to if it is possible.


I've got a question that maybe one of you guys can help me with. Can you use a token copy of a creature with champion in the champion loop? Here's the scenario; turn two Ondu Cleric, turn three Kabira Evangel, turn four Changeling Berserker who champions the cleric, turn five Minion Reflector, turn six play a second Changeling Berserker / activate Reflector for a Berserker token / champion loop = infinite life?


I realize this combo wouldn't be the best thing ever, I'm just curious as to if it is possible.




That may work with the Reflector, but only with the Reflector, and only as long as you have the mana to pay the Reflector cost. In other words, you could gain some life, but not infinite (unless you have infinite mana as well).


The problem is that when you exile the token as part of championing it, it just disappears. However, you could pay the reflector cost when the real champion pops out from under the token.


What doesn't make sense to me is the bit about Deranged Hermit/Wood Elves - I don't think it works because once you pop the original creature out, you can't put it back in, at least not with 4 champions and maybe not at all. The first combo works because the creatures in question trigger off of other creatures entering the battlefield.

MTG Rules Advisor

That may work with the Reflector, but only with the Reflector, and only as long as you have the mana to pay the Reflector cost. In other words, you could gain some life, but not infinite (unless you have infinite mana as well).

The problem is that when you exile the token as part of championing it, it just disappears. However, you could pay the reflector cost when the real champion pops out from under the token.


What doesn't make sense to me is the bit about Deranged Hermit/Wood Elves - I don't think it works because once you pop the original creature out, you can't put it back in, at least not with 4 champions and maybe not at all. The first combo works because the creatures in question trigger off of other creatures entering the battlefield.



Ahhhh, that's right. When a token is removed from play it's gone. Thanks


All four Turntimber Rangers trigger twelve times each, so that's 48 triggers. Each only puts one Wolf onto the Battlefield, so where do the other 69 come from?




i would appreciate someone explaining this in depth.



All four Turntimber Rangers trigger twelve times each, so that's 48 triggers. Each only puts one Wolf onto the Battlefield, so where do the other 69 come from?




i would appreciate someone explaining this in depth.




I can't say how he got to the 117 number. 48 looks like it's the right one. Basically, you fetch all twelve allies (4x of each of the 3) with Nissa's ultimate. Each ally's triggered ability looks back at what came in with it (this is why the Ob Nixilis/Warp World deck works), so each of the allies trigger 12 times, once for itself and once for the 11 other allies.


This means, if you use each of the triggers, you get 48 redundant copies of vigilance on each of the allies, you could hit 48 non-shroud/non-protection flying creatures for 12, and you get 4 14/14 Turntimber Rangers and 48 2/2 wolves.

MTG Rules Advisor

Considering he started the next sentence with "Seriously, though," I think it's just an exaggeration.

In addition to the partially inaccurate and completely annoying (I hate infinite loops) Nissa info, the final all-Ally deck is kind of disappointing as well, though I must admit I am glad to see it done without rare dual lands.


I love the Rite abuse and the Artificial Evolution + Turntimber Ranger combo (yes, even though it's infinite), though.