9/29/2009 LI: "Applied Mechanics"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Limited Information, which goes live Tuesday morning on magicthegathering.com.

I think your web developers need to create a much better way to view individual cards in a deck. When cards are new it is almost imposible to look at those cards and know what you would do in a sealed format.  Clicking on each link and waiting for the popup is very tedious.


At least have some kind of javascript mouseover effect that changes the image in a picture above the decklist or something similar.  The best way would be to have a viewer similar to the Sample Hand Generator, but even a simple mouseover script would be very helpful.

Not sure how to set up card tags and the like, but I'd go for RW aggro, taking advantage of the solid removal suite and decent ally synergy.

Green/Blue with landfall, splashing black for a disfigure and a couple of mosquitoes - by the time you have the mana to kick them, you should have found your black sources. Get as much mana as you can and merfolk Seastalkers will shut down some decks - if you're lucky, you'll be in a position to tsunami-bounce scouts. Allies are not a big deal here, but a wind drake is a wind drake.


I'd also be tempted to mulligan any hand that doesn't have a telescope, but that might be an overreaction to the repeated spankings I suffered this weekend at the hands of this innocuous-looking but highly powerful card.

Check out my Multiplayer Magic articles on the new site http://www.gatheringmagic.com/

I would go GRW with this deck.  Normally I would try for 2 colors if I can, but 2 Harrows and 1 Heart Expedition would almost certainly push me towards 3 colors.  There is also a dual land for both GR & GW, which is good because while Green is probably your weakest color it also has all of your fixing so it will probably be the primary color mana wise.


White is clearly your best color, and red seams to barely be second as far as the number of playables.  But with a couple of great creatures I think it is worth adding green.  RW can easily put together up to 24 playables without artifacts, so it might not be worth the addition of a third color. 


You can definetly play with quite a few of those artifacts, so perhaps just RW is the best choice.  I would want to set the cards in front of me to really make that decision, I think it is a bit hard to look through cards I dont know in the format they are displayed on the website.

Into the Bonus!


White seems like an okay 'main color' : a turn-2 Blademaster has a pretty 'nutty' board presence.


Blue may be a little nice complement with a decent amount of flyers (also, rite)


Black is the less powerful choice here, no more than 2-3 "nice" cards.


Red may be a good splash (woah-lightning + 1C Allies), but not big enough for the minotaur-guy.


Green looks okay, double Harrow it's something to keep in mind (also, nice fixing if we're taking 3 colors), also, Baloths.


'My sealed deck',


W/U/r


white with the 'weenies', the 'removal'. blue supporting with more aggresive flyers and 'tempo-cards', and good little red with more allies and 'quick sparks'...


Still a little obsessive with the WW cards, maybe getting like 9 plains + 5 islands + 3 mountains...


(on the other hand...what about U/G...?)

Hmm...Black doesn't have enough cards to support, and it's bomb is BBB.  Shame that those Heartstabber Mosquitoes can't be put to good use.


Red's pretty average.  Ruinous Minotaur is pretty red for a card pool that can't support it as a first colour.  Otherwise it has some decent removal and that Geopede, but not much else.


The best colours here are White, Green, and Blue, in that order.  Since there's so much good mana-fixing in Green (and that GW land to boot, not to mention the Explorer's Scopes), I'd suggest running White-Green, with a splash of blue.  White and blue have the early plays with White's 4 allies and blue's quick flyers, and Green has the mana-fixing and Landfall bombs.


 


2 Kazandu Blademaster


2 Makindi Shieldmate


1 Kor Aeronaut


1 Kor Sanctifiers


1 Pitfall Trap


1 Steppe Lynx


1 Journey to Nowhere


2 Harrow


1 Kalni Heart Expedition


1 Joraga Bard


1 Rampaging Baloths


1 Timbermaw Baloth


1 Explorer's Scope


1 Khalni Gem


1 Stonework Puma


1 Grappling Hook


1 Adventuring gear


1 Umara Raptor


1 Welkin Tern


1 Windrider Eel


1 Graypelt Refuge


1 Soaring Seacliff


7 Plains


6 Forest


2 Island


 


As a landfall deck, with three colours, I'm a touch worried that it would need more land, but it does have 5 cards with reliable mana-fixing (counting the Gem and Refuge) and the Explorer's scope, too.  It has 7 allies 4 creatures with landfall.  What do you think?

I dismiss Green right out. It has only six cards I'm happy to play. Not deep enough.
Black is next to get the axe. Heartstabber Mosquito is great, but the rest is very shallow.
Blue is so in. Magosi the Waterveil is fantastic, and the rest of blue is saucy.
White has strong aggressive cards. I'm happy to run it, even if it's shallower than I'd like.
I'll keep red in mind. Splashing for Burst Lightning seems some strong.


This is what I'm going to run:


Into the Roil
Living Tsunami
Merfolk Seastalkers
Rite of Replication
Shoal Serpent
Summoner's Bane
Umara Raptor
Welkin Tern
Windrider Eel


Cliffthreader
Journey to Nowhere
2 Kazandu Blademaster 
Kor Aeronaut
Kor Sanctifiers
Makindi Shieldmate
Pitfall Trap
Steppe Lynx


Adventuring Gear
Eldrazi Monument
Khalni Gem
Stonework Puma
Explorer's Scope


10 Plains
5 Island
1 Soaring Seacliff
1 Magosi, the Waterveil


I have a fairly low curve and Explorer's Scope, so I'm happy to run only 17 lands, despite the landfall. I have Khalni Gem as well, to reuse my landfall effects. I think this is a fine deck - my only problem is that I wish I had the WU tapland. If I had that, I could cut an Plains and keep 10 white sources but with 8 blue sources. Makindi Shieldmate might seems weird in this aggressive a deck, but I've got three aggressive allies it boosts, two of which occupies the space just before it in the curve.

1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Kor Sanct
1 Bold Defense
1 Pitfall Trap

1 Living Tsunami
1 Mfolk Tapper
1 Rite of Replication
1 Shoal Serpent
1 Summoner's Bane
1 Umara Raptor
1 Welkin Tern
1 Windrider Eel
1 Into Roil

1 Greenweaver Druid
2 Harrow
1 Rampaging Baloths
1 Territorial  Baloth
1 Timber Larva
1 Zendikar Farguide

1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Khalni Gem
1 Grapling Hook

2 Plains
1 Graypelt Refuge
7 Island
7 Forest


I wasn't really sure on the mana consistency for the Double of each color required to play everything kicked, or if I had enough to maybe even splash red for the Bursts over the weaker The Greenweaver Druid and the Summoner's Bane or Umara Raptor. I also don't really know how to evaluate the cheap equipment in the set. It'd be quite nutty to land a Kicked Rite of Replication on a Rampaging Baloths then drop a land.

Ok so my thoughts were to immediately take this and chuck it out the window. but here goes nothin.


5- Color Green:


Green Spells


2 Harrow


1 Greenweaver Druid


1 Rampaging Baloths


1 Territorial Baloth


1 Khalni Heart Expedition


Blue Spells


1 into the roil


1 Merfolk Seastalkers


1 Living Tsunami


1 Summoners bane


1 Rite of Replication


Black Spells


1 Disfigure


1 Hideous End


3 Heartstabber Mosquito


1 Sadistic Sacrament


Red Spells


2 Burst Lightning


1 plated geopede


 


Artifact


Khalni Gem


 


Land


6 Forest


4 Island


5 Swamp


1 Soaring Seacliff


1 Mountain


1 Kazandu Refuge


Now I know this isn't that great but the Allure of all that removal is just too good to pass up. Having superior creatures and good fixing/ramp justifies the inclusion of the "copy my rampaging baloths x5" card Rite of Replication. White has a lot of cards in the pool but they are all fairly bad. The only card worth mentioning is the Journey. I would like to play the explorers scopes but putting the removal package in is more important as you need to stabilize the early game against a dedicated Kor, or Vampire Deck.

I wanted to run Eldzari Monument but with only 12 creatures I didn't feel it would fit right.  Allies looked tempting but it woulda been at the expense of landfall, which I feel is stronger.  Harrow and Khalni provides additional landfall triggers while doubling as mana fixing.  Grappling Hook while expensive will have many avenues for abuse with evasion creatures or landfall and harrow.  I dream of 16 damage from a Windrider Eel equiped with a Grappling Hook, a land drop, and a resolved Harrow.


 

































































Blue
1Shoal Serpent
1Living Tsunami
1Windrider Eel
1Merfolk Seastalkers
1Umara Raptor
1Welkin Tern
1Caller of Gales
1Rite of Replication
1Summoner's Bane
1Into the Roil

Green 
1Rampaging Baloths
1Territorial Baloth
2Harrow
1Khalni Heart Expedition

Red
1Tuktuk Grunts
1Plated Geopede
1Magma Rift
2Burst Lightning

Artifact
1Grappling Hook
1Khalni Gem
1Adventuring Gear

Land
1Soaring Seacliff
1Magosi, the Waterveil
6Island
5Forest
4Mountain

Yay, new formats!


For those that havn't had the pleasure of playing yet, this format seems really aggressive.  A deck that can optimize landfall deals serious amounts of damage very early.  "Traditional" aggro decks that just run on creatures and removal only seem efficient enough if you're in red/black as black's common vampires give you creatures early enough to keep up with any other landfall deck.  Red/black aggro with landfall support in geopede or adventurer's gear is just sick.


Turning a view to the sealed pool presented, it's a few cards shy of any good two color aggressive strategies.  The red/white comes closest, but is still about 3 cards off of being good.  The heavy color commitment of looking for WW on turn 2 or RR on turn 3 makes it risky to want to split into a third color.  Besides, with red and white main, the other colors don't really have anything good to splash into.


As an alternative, looking at a midrange or controlling deck we have better options.  Blue has a good set of fliers and white could provide ground control.  I would put it together something like this:


9 Plains
6 Island
1 Soaring Seacliff
1 Magosi, the Waterveil
1 Adventuring Gear
1 Explorer's Scope
1 Kraken Hatchling
1 Cliffthreader
1 Journey to Nowhere
2 Kazandu Blademaster
1 Kor Aeronaut
1 Into the Roil
1 Welkin Tern
1 Pitfall Trap
1 Kor Sanctifiers
2 Makindi Shieldmate
1 Umara Raptor
1 Pillarfield Ox
1 Living Tsunami
1 Merfolk Seastalkers
1 Rite of Replication
1 Summoner's Bane
1 Windrider Eel
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Shoal Serpent


However, my eye was drawn to the potential of this:


1 Graypelt Refuge
7 Forest
6 Plains
4 Swamp
1 Adventuring Gear
1 Disfigure
1 Khalni Heart Expedition
2 Kazandu Blademaster
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Grim Discovery
2 Harrow
1 Kor Sanctifiers
2 Makindi Shieldmate
1 Pitfall trap
1 Hideous End
1 Joraga Bard
1 Khalni Gem
1 Grappling Hook
3 Heartstabber Mosquito
1 Territorial Baloth
1 Rampaging Baloths


This GWb control deck has the same early defense as the UW deck, but it gets a much more powerful endgame.  The deck is just full of card advantage - whether a harrow gets you two land out of your deck (double landfall if you have adventuring gear out - triple if you layed a land that turn) or the heartstabber mosquitos giving you free kills after all that ramping.  The kazandu blademasters are obscene if they come down turn two, but still great even if they come out later.  Joraga bard and makindi shieldmates buy you the time to lay down one of your game enders - grappling hook, baloth, or just a flier with some gear.  The 1/4s hold the ground and removal takes care of anything airborne or just too big to handle otherwise.


I feel the power level of the second deck is significantly greater than the first, so I'd play it straight up.  If I felt the two were close, I'd run the UW in game 1 then switch to the GWb in games 2 and 3 the majority of the time.  There are some good common cards in this set to blunt flying offensives like that which the UW deck presents - namely the common spidersilk net.  A random 2 drop would be blocking the UW's army on turn 3 with the net.  Switching to GWb would leave them poorly boarded if they chose to bring in such cards.  If my GWb was facing another controlling deck, I'd bring in the Sadistic Sacrement for the lategame "I win".  (I really wanted this in the main, just couldn't find justification for the last slot)


If any of you managed to read through and really process this entire post, I'd love to hear comments about my view of the format.  Thanks!


 

Landfall/Allies (UGwr) - 15 creatures/9 spells


1 drops
Kraken Hatchling
Explorer's Scope
Adventuring Gear


2 drops
Into the Roil
Khalni Heart Expedition
Kazandu Bladmaster x 2


3 drops
Umara Raptor
Merfolk Wayfinder
Harrow x 2
Greenweaver Druid
Stonework Puma


4 drops
Windrider Eel
Summoner's Bane
Living Tsunami
Rite of Replication
Merfolk Seastalkers
Timbermaw Lava
Khalni Gem
Joraga Bard


5 drops
Territorial Baloth
Tuktuk Grunts


6 drops
Rampaging Baloths


Lands (16)
Graypelt Refuge
Kazandu Refuge
2 Plains
1 Mountain
6 Islands
5 Forests


Mana base may be a bit flakey, would have to play it a few times and see. I quite liked this pool, challenging with many different possibilities.

With double Harrow double scope I see a UGwrb deck on the cards.  But then there are only 2 baloths and 2 Harrow in green.  So UWr it is.

1  Journey to Nowhere
1  Into the Roil
1  Pitfall Trap
1  Bold Defense (last card in)
2  Burst Lightning (functionally a 5-drop)

1  Steppe Lynx
1  Welkin Tern
1  Cliffthreader
2  Kazandu Blademaster
1  Kor Aeronaut
1  Stonework Puma
1  Umara Raptor
1  Kor Sanctifiers
1  Windrider Eel
1  Rite of Replication
1  Pillarfield Ox
1  Living Tsunami
1  Merfolk Seastalkers
1  Shoal Serpent

2  Explorer's Scope
1  Soaring Seacliff
8  Plains
6  Island
2  Mountain

(not counting Explorer's Scope as a coloured source)
9 sources for 8 white cards (lots of WW though)
7 sources for 8 blue cards
2 sources for 2 red cards

Mana Curve
1 c
2 ccccss
3 cccss
4 cccc
5 css
6 c

me been me i love land destruction in limited it makes most scoop after a few lands go bye bye


so i thought of r/b/g and of r/b/u 


 but i have played the u/g land fall it is sick but having only 1 tsunami and 1 adventure gear make it not possible so if it was me i would do g/w with a splash of red using the minotar for land destruction and try as much land fall as possible


maybe the r/g/b with removal and land destruction be my next best  maybe if i knew how the others play limited i could go eather way

I would build a base Blue-Green deck with a splash of red for removal in it.


Blue:
1  Into the Roil
1  Living Tsunami
1  Merfolk Seastalkers
1  Rite of Replication
1  Shoal Serpent
1  Summoner's Bane
1  Umara Raptor
1  Welkin Tern
1  Windrider Eel


Green:
1  Greenweaver Druid
2  Harrow
1  Khalni Heart Expedition
1  Rampaging Baloths
1  Territorial Baloth
1  Timberlaw Larva


Artifacts:


1  Adventuring Gear
1  Explorer's Scope
1  Grappling Hook
1  Khalni Gem


Red:


2  Burst Lightning
1  Magma Rift


Land:


1  Kazandu Refuge
1  Magosi, the Waterveil


2 Mountain


7 Forest


7 Islands


 


This deck has a decent curve, has quite a few cards that take advantage of landfall, enough land search to support those cards and minimize mana problems, some removal and generally enough tempo to win games. If the game goes late you'll basically rely on your bombs, Rite of Replication and Rampaging Baloths, to win, or rely on an extra turn of attacking via Magosi, the Waterveil. Or burn the opponent's face with Burst Lightning, or a surprise Harrow before combat damage with a Baloth out.


I considered using Black for removal, but thought that Red would be the easier/better splash (considering the dual land and light colored requirement of the Lightnings and the Rift).

i was starting to think noone saw how powerful this pool is in GU landfall archetype... go Eagony


i'd play something like that or even splashing white for pitfall trap and journey to nowhere. lot's of good fixing here, so GUrw isn't that much a stretch to get all the good removal in. this may also be the deck where adventuring gear shines.


 


so many people trying to force white just for the blademasters... it's not worth it, you have 3 good allies, 2 mediocre ones...

I went White - Green - blue


2  Kazandu Blademaster
1  Kor Sanctifiers
2  Makindi Shieldmate
2  Shieldmate's Blessing
1  Steppe Lynx


2  Harrow
1  Joraga Bard
1  Khalni Heart Expedition
1  Rampaging Baloths
1  Territorial Baloth


1  Into the Roil
1  Living Tsunami
1  Rite of Replication
1  Umara Raptor
1  Windrider Eel


2  Explorer's Scope
1  Grappling Hook
1  Khalni Gem


1  Graypelt Refuge
1  Soaring Seacliff


6 plains
6 forest
3 Islands

Green/Blue/Black seems the way to go.  I spent a lot of time debating whether to go Allies or Landfall, but in the end the Baloths was too tempting, and making five copies of it was even more tempting, so Blue/Green sounds like a good combination to me, with splashes of black for some removal.

I gave this a shot, and came up with the following list.


UGr


Green:


Rampaging Baloths


Greenweaver Druid


Harrow x2


Khalni Heart Expedition


Territorial Baloth


Blue:


Living Tsunami


Kraken Hatchling


Windrider Eel


Shoal Serpent


into the Roil


Merfolk seastalker


Merfolk Wayfinder


Welkin Tern


Rite of Replication


Red:


Burst lightning x2


Plated Geopede


colourless and land:


Khalni Gem


Eldrazi Monument


Explorer's scope x2


Soaring seacliff


Kazadu refuge


Mountain x1


forest x7


island x8


 


I'm not the greatest (as you can clearly see) but I thought I'd post anyway and see how other people did.

Land 17


Forest - 6


Kazandu Refuge - 1


Mountain - 5


Swamp - 5


Creatures 12


Blood Seeker - 1


Heartstabber Mosquito - 3


Plated Geopede - 1


Rampaging Baloth - 1


Ruinous Minotaur - 2


Stonework Puma - 1


Territorial Baloth - 1


Timbermaw Larva - 1


Zendikar Farguide - 1


Other 12


Adventuring Gear - 1


Burst Lightning - 2


Disfigure - 1


Eldrazi Monument - 1


Explorer's Scope - 2


Harrow - 2


Hideous End - 1


Khalni Heart Expedition - 1


Magma Rift - 1


Good mana fixing and not enough really in anyone single color lead me to three colors, picked up the best mana fixing and removal then put in the best creatures that i could. The Eldrazi monument MIGHT  not have enough creatures to really make a statement towards staying power but if there was a sorcery spell that read:


Mana cost : 5 colorless: Sorcery: All your creatures gain flying +1/+1 and indestructibility until end of turn. During your upkeep you may play this spell from your graveyard for free by sacrificing a creature.


Im willing to bet it would be an auto include in any deck, and thats not saying anything about potentially having a rampaging baloth triggering landfall to keep the creature count up.  The only things im kind of iffy about are the ruinous minotaurs... double red so early is kind of painful.

I would also go Blue-Green Landfall, splashing the red burn spells.


2  Caller of Gales


1  Into the Roil


1  Living Tsunami


1  Merfolk Seastalkers


1  Rite of Replication


1  Shoal Serpent


1  Summoner's Bane


1  Umara Raptor


1  Windrider Eel


1  Greenweaver Druid


2  Harrow


1  Khalni Heart Expedition


1  Rampaging Baloths


1  Tanglesap


1  Territorial Baloth


1  Timberlaw Larva


3  Heartstabber Mosquito


1  Khalni Gem


1  Adventuring Gear


1  Explorer's Scope


2  Swamp


8 Forest


6 Island


1  Soaring Seacliff



 


This fits more of my play style, don't know if it's the "hands down" best strategy. What do you guys think?

You have a ton of removal (black!), but just 1 really good finisher (Baloth). I think white is too mana dependant (double white turn 2!), and has no real lategame. Landfall seems too unreliable, and the allies are too expensive for what they do.


I guess I would make a BGur deck, splashing the red removal and big blue creatures. Possibly is BUr nice too.

2 Decks, first is based around allies second is based around landfall utilizing the harrow/khalni combo


 


WB with splash of U

1 Cliff Threader
1 Journey to Nowhere
2 Kazandu Blademaster
1 Kor Aeronaut
1 Kor Sanctifiers
2 Makinidi Shieldmate
2 Shieldmate's Blessing
1 Blood Seeker
1 Disfigure
3 Heartstabber Mosquito
1 Hideous end
1 Adventuring Gear
1 Explorer's Scope
1 Grappling Hook
1 Umara Raptor
1 Stonework Puma
1 Trailblazer's Boots
1 Into the Roil
1 Steppe Lynx
1 Soaring Seacliff
1 Piranha Marsh
6 Plains
5 Swamp
3 Island

G
2 Harrow
1 Khalni Heart Expedition
1 Rampaging Baloths
2 Tanglesap
1 Territorial Baloth
1 Timbermaw Larva
1 Greenweaver Druid
1 Khalni Gem
2 Explorer's Scope
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Disfigure
1 Grim Discovery
3 Heartstabber Mosquito
1 Hideous End
1 Adventurer's Gear
2 Burst Lighning
1 Plated Geopede
2 Ruinous Minotaur
1 Kazandu Refuge
1 Piranha Marsh
6 Forest
4 Mountain
3 Swamp

I would go GRW with an Ally/Landfall theme. Kazandu Blademaster is ridiculous, so he would be in there regardless, but to be able to play off of the allies is even better. I would love smashing in with a huge late game Tuktuk Grunts. I decided to try for Landfall too because of the great landfall cards that are available in the three colors I already picked. If Rampaging Baloth sticks, he gets out of control quickly, especially if you're dropping a Harrow soon after. This deck is going to be very aggressive with a little bit of removal backup in the form of Journey to Nowhere and Burst Lightning (which I think is a great removal card because of it's versatility). The deck I built is as follows:


 


2x Kazandu Blademaster
2x Makindi Shieldmate
1x Highland Berserker
1x Tuktuk Grunts
1x Stonework Puma
1x Joraga Bard
1x Steppe Lynx
1x Plated Geopede
1x Rampaging Baloths
1x Territorial Baloth
1x Greenweaver Druid
1x Goblin Bushwhacker
1x Noble Vestige
1x Kor Sanctifiers

Other Spells:

1x Journey to Nowhere
2x Burst Lightning
2x Harrow
1x Eldrazi Monument


Lands:

1x Graypelt Refuge
1x Kazandu Refuge
7x Plains
4x Forest
4x Mountain


 


Let me know what you guys think.

I'd go Blue/White splash Red


Creatures(13):


2x Kazandu Blademaster


1x Kor Sanctifiers


1x Kor Aeronaut


1x Steppe Lynx


1x Stonework Puma


1x Living Tsunami


1x Merfolk Seastalkers


1x Shoal Serpent


1x Umara Raptor


1x Welkin Tern


1x Windrider Eel


1x Plated Geopede


Spells(10):


1x Journey to Nowhere


1x Pitfall Trap


1x Into the Roil


1x Rite of Replication


2x Burst Lightning


1x Explorer's Scope


1x Grappling Hook


1x Eldrazi Monument


1x Adventuring Gear


Land(17):


1x Soaring Seacliffs


5x Island


8x Plains


3x Mountain


 

I went with WGR Landfall with an ally sub-theme. Harrow and Khalni Heart Expedition are just too good to pass up with this many strong landfall effects.


1 Graypelt Refuge
1 Kazandu Refuge
5 Forest
5 Mountain
5 Plains
-----
17 Lands

1 Joraga Bard
1 Rampaging Baloths
1 Territorial Baloth
2 Kazandu Blademaster
1 Kor Aeronaut
1 Kor Sanctifiers
1 Steppe Lynx
1 Goblin Bushwacker
1 Highland Berserker
1 Plated Geopede
1 Tuktuk Grunts
-----
12 creatures
 
2 Harrow
1 Khalni Heart Expedition
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Pitfall Trap
2 Burst Lightning
1 Adventuring Gear
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Explorer's Scope
1 Khalni Gem
-----
11 other spells

allies in general seem pretty weak. with the exception of kazandu blademaster and oran rief survivalist, all the non-rare allies are either too expensive or their effects are too weak. building an allies deck would depend entirely on whether you got a good ally rare or not, and whether you got more than one blademaster. i might be underestimating them, though, because i find the mechanic so boring. non tribal tribal? after massively heavy tribal in lorwyn and shadowmoor?



Mana cost : 5 colorless: Sorcery: All your creatures gain flying +1/+1 and indestructibility until end of turn. During your upkeep you may play this spell from your graveyard for free by sacrificing a creature.




that plays a lot different (and a lot better) than eldrazi monument. as soon as you don't pay the cost, it goes away forever. i'm not saying the monument is bad, but the card you describe would be much more powerful because of the differences between it and the monument.


onto the exercise: this is what i would do. i do not think this is what anyone SHOULD do, it's just what i would do if i had these cards. i am not particularly good at limited and i haven't done it very much (but i really like it).


cliffthreader
2 kazandu blademaster
kor aeronaut
kor sanctifiers
noble vestige
steppe linx
greenweaver druid
rampaging baloths
territorial baloth
timbermaw larva

journey to nowhere
pitfall trap
sunspring expedition
2 harrow
1 khalni heart expedition
2 tanglesap

eldrazi monument
2 explorer's scope
khalni gem
grappling hook
adventuring gear

greypelt refuge
8 plains
8 forest

B/R, use grim discovery to basicly play 4 masquitos

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I have chosen to build a GUb Landfall based deck with a few nice kicker cards in the way of the mosquitos and replication.


I do understand that there only 4 cards with Landfall, so it is not much of a basis, but I feel that the Baloths as well as the Shoal Serpent has the potential to be very nice, especially if I kick the Replication on one of them.


 


Lands

Forest x8
Island x4
Swamp x3

Creatures

Greenweaver Druid
Rampaging Baloths
Territorial Baloth
Timbermaw Larva
Zendikar Farguide

Living Tsunami
Merfolk Wayfinder
Shoal Serpent
Windrider Eel
Welkin Tern
Caller of Gales x2
Kraken Hatchling

Heartstabber Mosquito x3

Spells

Khalni Gem
Explorer's Scope x2
Adventuring Gear

Harrow x2
Khalni Heart Expedition

Rite of Replication
Disfigure

I play GBr removal.dec with sacrament and baloths as late-game bombs.  Triple mosquito double shock was too good to pass up, especially with harrow to back it up.  I'm sad to pass up the rite of replication.


 


Land (17)


1 kazandu refuge


2 mountain


7 swamp


7 forest


B (7)


3 mosquito


1 disfigure


1 hideous end


1 sadistic sacrament


1 grim discovery


G(5)


2 harrow


1 khalni heart expedition


1 rampaging baloths


1 territorial baloth


R(5)


2 burst lightning


1 demolish


1 magma rift


1 plated geopede


A(6)


1 eldrazi monument


2 explorer's scope


1 adventuring gear


1 khalni gem


1 grappling hook


 


I play GBr removal.dec with sacrament and baloths as late-game bombs.  Triple mosquito double shock was too good to pass up, especially with harrow to back it up.  I'm sad to pass up the rite of replication.


3 mosquito


1 rampaging baloths


1 territorial baloth


1 plated geopede


1 eldrazi monument


2 explorer's scope


1 adventuring gear


1 grappling hook


Are you concerned that you have only 6 creatures, almost all very expensive, yet 5 cards that do nothing without a creature?  Removal is good, but it's not like a 7CC Mosquito is going to save you from aggressive creatures.

That looks a lot like how I started building my deck at the Prerelease; Green fixing and acceleration, Black removal, Red removal...  Three great support colors, but nothing to provide the team.  I realized I had very little in the way of bodies, and reluctantly switched to WR, even though white had no removal, just a Felidar Sovereign, some mediocre Allies, and a couple 2/4s.  I ended up at 5-0-1, and I think my decision to play creatures over extra removal and fixing was key to that outcome.  (It didn't hurt that Felidar Sovereign was amazing.)

Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!
My Decks
These are the decks I have assembled at the moment:
Tournament Decks (4)
Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block) Sunforger/Izzet Guildmage Midrange (Ravnica/Time Spiral/Xth Standard) Dragonstorm Combo (Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Xth Standard) Bant Midrange (Lorwyn/Shards/M10 Standard)
Casual Multiplayer Decks (50)
Angel Resurrection Casual Soul Sisters Sindbad's Adventures with Djinn of Wishes Sphinx-Bone Wand Buyback Morph (No Instants or Sorceries) Cabal Coffers Control Zombie Aggro Hungry, Hungry Greater Gargadon/War Elemental Flashfires/Boil/Ruination - Boom! Call of the Wild Teysa, Orzhov Scion with Twilight Drover, Sun Titan, and Hivestone Slivers Rebels Cairn Wanderer Knights Only Gold and () Spells Captain Sisay Toolbox Spellweaver Helix Combo Merfolk Wizards Izzet Guildmage/The Unspeakable Arcane Combo Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and his Wizards Creatureless Wild Research/Reins of Power Madness Creatureless Pyromancer Ascension Anarchist Living Death Anvil of Bogardan Madness Shamen with Goblin Game/Wound Reflection Combo Mass damage Quest for Pure Flame Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle/Clear the Land with 40+ Lands Doubling Season Thallids Juniper Order Ranger Graft/Tokens Elf Archer Druids Equilibrium/Aluren Combo Experiment Kraj Combo Reap Combo False Cure/Kavu Predator Combo Savra, Queen of the Golgari Sacrifice/Dredge Elf Warriors Eight-Post Sneak Attack Where Ancients Tread Zur the Enchanter with Opal creatures Tamanoa/Kavu Predator/Collapsing Borders Esper Aggro Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and his Darksteel Reactor Theft and Control Unearth Aggro Soul's Fire Vampires Devour Tokens Phytohydra with Powerstone Minefield Treefolk Friendly? Questing Phelddagrif Slivers Dragon Arch Fun I'm probably forgetting a few...

I went with white-red with allies and some burns.


Red-


Highland Berserker x1


Tuk Tuk Grunts x1


Burst Lightning x2


Magma Rift x1


Plated Geopede x1


Demolish x1


Hellfire Mongrel x1


White


Kazandu Blademaster x2


Makindi Shieldmate x2


Shieldmate's Blessing x2


Journey to Nowhere x1


Pitfall Trap x1


Bold Defense x2


Steppe Lynx x1


Kor Sanctifiers x1


Artifacts-


Adventuring Gear x1


Grappling Hook x1


Khalni Gem x1


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

This is hard, black has plenty of removal, but mind you mosquitos are only removal when kicked which costs 7 mana.  I road U/R to 4th at prerelease.  Blue is a solid color with the normal blue flying armada strategy.  Blue seems to has some nice evasive creatures; however it doesn't have enough to be alone in the creature department.  White and Black look like good secondaries. White has many strong early creatures, but many need double white.  Black has more removal than white.  Red and Green look like splashes.  Red has some nice damage removal with low commitments and green has land fetch and a strong late game bomb.


So I am thinking U/B/G















































BlueBlackGreen
2 Caller of Gales1 Disfigure2 Harrow
1 Living Tsunami3 Heartstabber Mosquito1 Khalni Heart Expedition
1 Merfolk Seastalkers1 Hideous End1 Rampaging Baloths
1 Merfolk Wayfinder1 Mire Blight1 Greenweaver Druid
1 Umara Raptor  
1 Welkin Tern  
1 Windrider Eel  
   
ArtifactsLands 
1 Spidersilk Net6 Islands 
1 Khalni Gem5 Forest 
1 Grappling Hook3 Swamp 
2 Explorer's Scope1 Pranha Marsh 
 1 Soaring Seacliff 

Lands(18):


Magosi, the Waterveil
Kazandu Refuge
Soaring Seacliff

7x Islands
4x Forest
4x Mountain


Creatures(12):


Living Tsunami
Windrider Eel
Welkin Tern
Umara Raptor
Kraken Hatchling
Caller of Gales

Shoal Serpent
Territorial Baloth
Rampaging Baloths
Hellfire Mongrel
Molten Ravager
Plated Geopede


Instant/Sorcery(7):


Into the Roil
Rite of Replication

2x Harrow
2x Burst Lightning
Magma Rift


Artifacts(4):


Khalni Gem
Adventuring Gear
Grappling Hook
Explorer's Scope


 

While there are two great green landfall cards + 2x Harrow, the pile offers us a great evasion aggro cards in white/blue colors, and when opponent will cast his harrow in third turn, he will be at 14 facing at least two of your creatures.


// Lands 16
9 Plains
7 Island

// Creatures 16
1 Steppe Lynx
1 Welkin Tern

1 Kor Aeronaut
2 Kazandu Blademaster
1 Cliff Threader
1 Umara Raptor
1 Merfolk Wayfinder
1 Stonework Puma
1 Windrider Eel
1 Living Tsunami
1 Pillarfield Ox
2 Makindi Shieldmate
1 Kor Sanctifiers
1 Merfolk Seastalkers

// Spells 8
1 Adventuring Gear
2 Bold Defense
1 Rite of Replication
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Pitfall Trap
1 Summoner's Bane
1 Into the Roil

//Sideboard
3 Mountain
2 Burst Lightning

1 Magma Rift
1 Demolish

The weakest card here is Pillerfield Ox, it probably should be replaced.
Maybe with: 8th island, Grappling Hook or Explorer's Scope.

The curve of creatures is great:
1cc: 1
2cc: 5
3cc: 4 + 2 (ally defenders)
4cc: 4


6 allies in the deck. 3 landfalls. 7 evasion creatures. 3 removals. No card is above 4cc in the deck, unless you want to use Bold Defense and Rite of Replication with kickers (and probably you want). If there are problems with getting through, sideboard plan is to add some burn/removal.


Typical sideborading:
-1 Pillerfield Ox
-1 Bold Defense
-1 Merfolk Wayfinder
-1 Plains
+2 Mountain
+2 Burst Lightning

U/b/r  Board Control


1  Into the Roil
1  Kraken Hatchling
1  Living Tsunami
1  Merfolk Seastalkers
1  Rite of Replication
1  Shoal Serpent
1  Summoner's Bane
1  Umara Raptor
1  Welkin Tern
1  Windrider Eel
10 blue cards


2  Burst Lightning
1  Magma Rift
1  Plated Geopede
1  Tuktuk Grunts
5 red cards

1  Disfigure
1  Grim Discovery
3  Heartstabber Mosquito
1  Hideous End
5 black cards

1 Explorer's Scope
1 Grappling Hook
1 Khalni Gem
3 artifacts


1  Magosi, the Waterveil
1  Piranha Marsh
7  Island
4  Mountain
4  Swamps
17 land

I'd run this; I like having 10+ cards which kill creatures while still having 12 creatures.  I'm unsure if the Grappling Hook should be a 2nd Explorer's Scope, since I've never played Hook before.

Hi I would play a mainly Blue landfall deck with green as manafix and black or red as a splash.


The mosquito is kind of mana heavy and that's why I only play 2 of then. It's better to get the eel or tsunami out on turn 4.


 


--land (17):--
8 Island
4 Forest
2 Swamp /
2 Mountain
1 Soaring Seacliff
1 Magosi the Waterveil

1 Piranha Marsh / Kazandu Refuge

--creatures (13):--
1 Welkin Tern
1 Blood Seeker
1 Umara Raptor
1 merfolk Wayfinder
1 Greenweaver Druid
2 Heartstabber Mosquito
1 Windrider Eel
1 Merfolk Seastalkers
1 Living Tsunami

1 Territorial Baloth
1 Shoal Serpent
1 Rampaging Baloths

--spells (5):--
1 Disfigure
1 Into the Roil
2 Harrow

1 Rite of Replication


--enchantments (1)--


1 Khalni Heart Expedition

--artifact (4):--
2 Explorer's Scope
1 Adventuring Gear
1 Khalni Gem


I would consider to exchange the black cards against these red ones:
1 Plated Geopede
2 Burst Lightning
1 Magma Rift


 


any thoughts?


 


(I know lands doesn't have colour - just marked them as well)

Hi all !


The pool is very deep, so it's hard to chose colors. I would go with Naya (GWR). I chose not to play Blue. I'm absolutly ok that Blue is very very deep, but I feel it was less synergic with the two others colors.


(blue offer "only" very good beast, the others colors offer BOTH good beasts AND good spells).


I don't play the Monument, because the deck seems aggressive enough  (so it doesn't really need the monument), and because I play "only" 12 creatures. I think the monument is only OK in particular case (a stalemate where the Flying give you an edge, but you MUST have enough creatures to keep it online long enough : too situational imho).


I considered splashing the mosquitos, but I already had enough playable and removal.


My deck (I goldfish a few games with it on MWS, it seems ok) :


// Lands (18)
    1 [ZEN] Graypelt Refuge
    1 [ZEN] Kazandu Refuge
    5 [ZEN] Mountain (4)
    5 [ZEN] Forest (3)
    6 [ZEN] Plains (4)

// Creatures (12)


    ..............................................................1CC
    1 [ZEN] Steppe Lynx


    ..............................................................2CC
    2 [ZEN] Kazandu Blademaster
    1 [ZEN] Kor Aeronaut
    1 [ZEN] Kor Sanctifiers
    1 [ZEN] Plated Geopede


    ..............................................................3CC
    1 [ZEN] Stonework Puma


    ..............................................................4CC
    1 [ZEN] Timbermaw Larva


    ..............................................................5CC and +
    1 [ZEN] Territorial Baloth
    1 [ZEN] Rampaging Baloths
    1 [ZEN] Highland Berserker
    1 [ZEN] Tuktuk Grunts


// Spells (11)
    1 [ZEN] Journey to Nowhere
    2 [ZEN] Burst Lightning
    1 [ZEN] Magma Rift
    2 [ZEN] Harrow
    1 [ZEN] Khalni Heart Expedition
    1 [ZEN] Adventuring Gear
    2 [ZEN] Explorer's Scope
    1 [ZEN] Grappling Hook


 


I love 41 cards deck (here with 18 lands for landfall), it's bad I know


 


/******************************/
/*  QUESTION TO STEVE :   */
/******************************/
Could you please write a little chapter about how you evaluate "Makindi Shieldmate". I personnaly don't like the card (I understant it is a great defender with synergy with others allies), but the "will never attack" clause seems really to hard for me.
Same for Bold Defense : I found the card really too expensive (7 mana for the effect you really want ?!! In a aggro limited format ?? ). And even for 7 mana it is far from being an "auto-win" like Naya Ultimatum or Overrun.


Thx !


GT.

Here's a GUrw deck that uses Harrow and Khalni Heart Expedition to trigger Landfall and otherwise pay for expensive spells. It's a fatty deck with removal to stay alive.

When you have all this fetching, it's easy to splash both Red and White for removal spells. The 2 Burst Lightnings, 1 Pitfall Trap, and Journey to Nowhere keep you alive until you cast your big spells. You could cast a Harrow on turn 3 and play Burst Lightning or Pitfall Trap on the same turn, because the lands come into play untapped. I like the way they can be used to survive the early game or remove a bigger threat later on.

16 Lands:
6 Forest
1 Graypelt Refuge (GW)
1 Plains
1 Kazandu Refuge (GR)
1 Mountain
1 Soaring Seacliff ... Flying Territorial Baloth ftw
4 Island

4 Mana Fixers:
2 Harrow
1 Khalni Heart Expedition
1 Khalni Gem

12 Creatures (+ Rite of Replication & Summoner's Bane)
1 Kraken Hatchling ... block a Lynx or Lacerator, save removal for later.
1 Welkin Tern
1 Greenweaver Druid ... might help cast Rite of Replication with kicker, or hard-cast Rampaging Baloths and sac Expedition on same turn.
1 Stonework Puma ... blocks intimidate creatures
1 Umara Raptor ... nice target for kicked Replication
1 Windrider Eel ... Landfall!
1 Living Tsunami ... Landfall enabler
1 Merfolk Seastalkers ... tap down everything with gobs of land
1 Tuktuk Grunts ... nice target for kicked Replication
1 Territorial Baloth ... Landfall!
1 Rampaging Baloths ... Landfall!!!
1 Shoal Serpent

9 Spells
2 Burst Lightning
1 Pitfall Trap
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Rite of Replication ... at least a Clone, sometimes a win condition
1 Summoner's Bane
1 Adventuring Gear ... Landfall!
1 Into the Roil
1 Grappling Hook ... this deck needs ways to create advantage out of having tons of mana

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