9/28/2009 MM: "Four Hundred and Counting"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.

OK, for the *third* time I'll try making this post (the first 2 times the boards decided to FUBAR when I tried to copy-paste something from Maro's article into them.  BRING BACK GLEEMAX!!!)


I only skimmed the article, hoping for some official word on these Vintage cards springing up in Zen packs, but found none.  I did, however, find this little tidbit I'd like to respond to:


What feels right at mythic rare and what doesn't? What's special and what's run-of-the-mill?


To me, Mythic rare has to be, well, mythic.  Y'know, like things you'll tell your buddies "Hey, I just did this" and you'll go down as a legend in your playgroup.  Like windmill-slam a giant angel.  Or burn out an opponent's board with a dragon.  Or drop a giant unkillable monster.  Or become suddenly unable to lose the game.  Or, y'know, counter a spell.  That's all well and good too.  Not.


Basically, a mythic rare should have resonance.  Baneslayer Angel was a good mythic rare cause she was big, flashy, had sweet artwork, and when you saw her you knew you never wanted to see her again except on your side.  Same with Bogardan Hellkite or Darksteel Colossus.  They're big, flashy, and resonant.  Interestingly enough, I think M10, the set of resonance, did mythic rares (and just about everything else) the best I've seen so far.  Zendikar mythics look like just a money grab.  Some, like Iona and Lorthos, feel Mythic.  Others (most of the others), just, well, don't.


What we didn't want in mythic rare were spells that you saw all the time in lower rarities doing simple, plain things only cheaper and more powerfully. We shouldn't, as an example, print Naturalize for G and stick it in mythic rare. This is what I meant when I used the term "utility." Being powerful is not unto itself a reason to make a card mythic rare.


Uh.  Sure, Maro, whatever you say.  You'd NEVER print a spell that did something simple and plain that we see *all the time* in lower rarities (God I wish I could autocard right now).  Like countering spells, right?  You'd never make a mythic rare that did nothing but counter spells, cause we see that all the time in lower rarities.  We have Negate, Essence Scatter, Cancel, Double Negative...you'd never THINK of printing a Mythic Rare counterspell that did nothing all that different except a bit better and for a cheaper cost, right?  Not even if that cost was 0 and it could counter uncounterable spells, right, Maro?  No way that'd *ever* be a mythic rare.  Uncommon, maybe.  Probably not common; that'd be too good.  But maybe uncommon.  But *never* mythic.


Maro, I'm not stupid.  I can read.  And there are many of us who can also read.  We see what's going on, and what you're doing is not what you're saying.  If you want to tell us that Mythic rarity is supposed to be for powerful, resonant, flavorful, special cards, make it for powerful, flavorful, resonant, special cards.  If you want it to be for tourney staples for another money grab, make it for tourney staples for a money grab.  But don't make it a money grab and say it's supposed to be for powerful, flavorful, resonant, special cards.  We're not stupid.

We shouldn't, as an example, print Naturalize for Green Mana and stick it in mythic rare. This is what I meant when I used the term "utility."


How is that "utility" by any stretch of the imagination? I mean, yeah naturalize is utility, but printing a mythic rare vanilla 3/3 for W wouldn't be utility even though it obsoletes watchwolf.
Plus, you know, Baneslayer Angel kicks this argument in the teeth anyway.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.


Basically, a mythic rare should have resonance.  Baneslayer Angel was a good mythic rare cause she was big, flashy, had sweet artwork, and when you saw her you knew you never wanted to see her again except on your side.  Same with Bogardan Hellkite or Darksteel Colossus.  They're big, flashy, and resonant.  Interestingly enough, I think M10, the set of resonance, did mythic rares (and just about everything else) the best I've seen so far.  Zendikar mythics look like just a money grab.  Some, like Iona and Lorthos, feel Mythic.  Others (most of the others), just, well, don't.




This.  Lotus Cobra doesn't feel mythic at all, and stapling the word "Lotus" on to it doesn't change that.  The counterspell trap just looks like a way to soak Vintage/Legacy/Extended players because of the existence of a badly designed mechanic (storm) that calls out for a good SB card.  Other than that, I haven't really been offended by any other mythics thus far.

How about this for a rule?  "If the card is one for which four copies will be routinely included in decks, it's not a good Mythic."  Cruel Ultimatum would have made a great Mythic - I don't understand why it wasn't.  On the other hand, Mindbreak Trap is a lousy Mythic.  It does a simple task for a low price; it should be Rare (because the actual implementation is a little complicated).


Make the Ascensions Mythic, they're way flashier than the Cobra and Instigator.

Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!
My Decks
These are the decks I have assembled at the moment:
Tournament Decks (4)
Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block) Sunforger/Izzet Guildmage Midrange (Ravnica/Time Spiral/Xth Standard) Dragonstorm Combo (Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Xth Standard) Bant Midrange (Lorwyn/Shards/M10 Standard)
Casual Multiplayer Decks (50)
Angel Resurrection Casual Soul Sisters Sindbad's Adventures with Djinn of Wishes Sphinx-Bone Wand Buyback Morph (No Instants or Sorceries) Cabal Coffers Control Zombie Aggro Hungry, Hungry Greater Gargadon/War Elemental Flashfires/Boil/Ruination - Boom! Call of the Wild Teysa, Orzhov Scion with Twilight Drover, Sun Titan, and Hivestone Slivers Rebels Cairn Wanderer Knights Only Gold and () Spells Captain Sisay Toolbox Spellweaver Helix Combo Merfolk Wizards Izzet Guildmage/The Unspeakable Arcane Combo Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and his Wizards Creatureless Wild Research/Reins of Power Madness Creatureless Pyromancer Ascension Anarchist Living Death Anvil of Bogardan Madness Shamen with Goblin Game/Wound Reflection Combo Mass damage Quest for Pure Flame Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle/Clear the Land with 40+ Lands Doubling Season Thallids Juniper Order Ranger Graft/Tokens Elf Archer Druids Equilibrium/Aluren Combo Experiment Kraj Combo Reap Combo False Cure/Kavu Predator Combo Savra, Queen of the Golgari Sacrifice/Dredge Elf Warriors Eight-Post Sneak Attack Where Ancients Tread Zur the Enchanter with Opal creatures Tamanoa/Kavu Predator/Collapsing Borders Esper Aggro Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and his Darksteel Reactor Theft and Control Unearth Aggro Soul's Fire Vampires Devour Tokens Phytohydra with Powerstone Minefield Treefolk Friendly? Questing Phelddagrif Slivers Dragon Arch Fun I'm probably forgetting a few...

I feel that Mark badly dropped the ball this week by not mentioning Zendikar AT ALL.  I was at the prerelease this weekend; I want answers.


What's with this business of Vintage cards in the boosters?  Would you maybe like to explain what that's all about?  Can you tell us something to confirm that Magic is not in fact liquidating its warehouses of leftover cards from the early days, making one last cheap cash-grab before closing down forever?  (I don't think this is really likely, but it was the first thing I thought of when I heard this rumor.)


What about Intimidate?  Why replace Fear with an almost-identical ability, instead of just changing Fear to work the way you want it to?  Is it just an attempt to cover up for the COMPLETE LACK OF A NEW KEYWORD (ability words don't count) IN ZENDIKAR?


I'd also like an explanation of the Surrakar, although I don't really expect that from Mark.  And I was really hoping today's Arcana would be the contents of the ZEN intro packs (which I know because I bought one and read the insert, but since I don't know the cards yet, this didn't tell me too much).


To weigh in on the mythics issue:


Lotus Cobra doesn't make a good mythic, in spite of MaRo's defense.  But I think Mindbreak Trap (for all that it could have used a more evocative name) actually works as a mythic, because it counters uncounterable spells, and potentially a whole bunch of them, and potentially for free.  Plus the art really works for me, reminding me of the "sphinxes" scene in The Neverending Story; the statues' mouths slowly open, revealing beams of doom, as did the sphinxes' eyes in the movie.


(I may well have made the opposite argument before, but this is my opinion as it currently stands; Mindbreak Trap is doing something we've never seen before, and a very powerful, if narrow, something at that.  That's acceptibly mythic, while Lotus Cobra is no more mythic than Dark Ritual or Earthbind or any other abusive mana source.)


It's not accurate to suggest that no mythic could ever appropriately counter a spell; Last Word would feel appropriate as a mythic, because it's a counter that denies the possibility of being countered.  Dismiss is a better card for most play purposes, but could not be a rare, let alone a mythic; Cryptic Command is still better, and perfectly fits rare, but should not be a mythic.  (In general, anything that was in a cycle should not be lifted to mythic unless the whole cycle is; this is why Mirror-Sigil Sergeant annoys me, as nothing about him suggests mythic-ness.)

My New Phyrexia Writing Credits My M12 Writing Credits
As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi

Congratulations on reaching 400!


Never mind the history of Magic, I think that's a pretty unique achievement in the history of game design.


One thing I noticed with this column is that the five star system is running into a bit of trouble. Articles like "Kind Acts of Randomness" and (in a very different way) "80000 Words" are excellent pieces that everyone should read. Compare with something like "IM Legend" which some readers found very amusing, but which isn't really more than an overlong version of a single joke (sure, it had Magic design content, but none of it was new). On a five star scale I guess it makes sense for these to all be fives, but they're not really in the same class.


Here's to the next 100 articles! :-)


(for all that it could have used a more evocative name)




"Costly Mistake"? :D

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.

TL;DR

Lotus cobra can be ridiculously good with cards that play more land on a single turn, but whether it needs to be mythic I have no idea.


Intimidate I actually understand, because fear seems like something you should only have on black cards, and they wanted to expand it into other colors.  Intimidate makes sense for flavor when your talking about green creatures or red creatures, etc etc.


I also am wondering about the vintage cards.


And last word is good, I know because I have one, but on the other hand counter spells are limited.  You can't counter spell forever, but it does gain you some tempo.  Many top tier decks don't counter spell at all, they rely on oblivion rings.  Last word is also not the only uncounterable counter spell, and if you want to talk mythic I would think thought hemorrhage might be a better choice.  I mean really, have you seen that card?  You play it in a deck that uses telepathy, you find out what their biggest creature is, and then get to hurt them for life and remove every copy of it from the game all at once and its still a rare. 


Of all the mythic rares I've seen the one I agree with most is maelstrom nexus,  I use it in a 5 color creature oriented deck, and I can play up to 3 creatures in one turn by having the nexus, and wild pair in play, which isn't as hard to do as it sounds.


To me, mythic means potential to be very powerful, not.. lets ramp up this card to crazy power levels.  I think we are seeing a bit of that in the new felidar, its a great card and I like it a lot, but its not over powered in the way mythic rares sometimes are.  If you ask me, lotus cobra is mythic because wotc doesn't want players to have lots of them, they are supposed to be something you get rarely and maybe have one in your deck.  The minute they are in every players deck, thats when I start to worry.

IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/0a90721d221e50e5755af156c179fe51.jpg?v=90000)


Interestingly enough, I think M10, the set of resonance, did mythic rares (and just about everything else) the best I've seen so far.  Zendikar mythics look like just a money grab.  Some, like Iona and Lorthos, feel Mythic.  Others (most of the others), just, well, don't.


What we didn't want in mythic rare were spells that you saw all the time in lower rarities doing simple, plain things only cheaper and more powerfully. We shouldn't, as an example, print Naturalize for G and stick it in mythic rare. This is what I meant when I used the term "utility." Being powerful is not unto itself a reason to make a card mythic rare.


Uh.  Sure, Maro, whatever you say.  You'd NEVER print a spell that did something simple and plain that we see *all the time* in lower rarities (God I wish I could autocard right now).  Like countering spells, right?  You'd never make a mythic rare that did nothing but counter spells, cause we see that all the time in lower rarities.  We have Negate, Essence Scatter, Cancel, Double Negative...you'd never THINK of printing a Mythic Rare counterspell that did nothing all that different except a bit better and for a cheaper cost, right?  Not even if that cost was 0 and it could counter uncounterable spells, right, Maro?  No way that'd *ever* be a mythic rare.  Uncommon, maybe.  Probably not common; that'd be too good.  But maybe uncommon.  But *never* mythic.


Maro, I'm not stupid.  I can read.  And there are many of us who can also read.  We see what's going on, and what you're doing is not what you're saying.  If you want to tell us that Mythic rarity is supposed to be for powerful, resonant, flavorful, special cards, make it for powerful, flavorful, resonant, special cards.  If you want it to be for tourney staples for another money grab, make it for tourney staples for a money grab.  But don't make it a money grab and say it's supposed to be for powerful, flavorful, resonant, special cards.  We're not stupid.




You've said a lot of what I wanted to say, so I'm going to quote most of your post.


Maro, maybe 'making mana' like Lotus Cobra does is not what you consider utility. Maybe you always thought that cards like Lotus Cobra should be mythic rares. But you know what? If you really did, then you made a mistake in communication. You've generally been good at communicating. And I can forgive a misstep. But there has been a mistake made, if not a disingenuous lie. A family friend of mine said to me over AIM: "I have rarely even thought Wizards has made a mistake. I think this is the first thing they've done that makes me upset. This seems like it completely violates their whole thing that staples should be rare or lower".

Wow... more content in the first ten comments than in the whole of today's articles. We're hot off the prerelease and all we get is the spoiler list and a boring list of articles? Way to go, Mark. How about talking about ZENDIKAR, that little product you're trying to promote about right now ?


BTW, that vintage promo is nice but it will cause more frustrated than happy players. At a rate of 1 per 20 boxes, most of your loyal customers who buy 1 to 5 boxes of everything will be left out in the cold and frustrated that they didn't pull something. It should have been much closer to 1 per 2 boxes, with at least a consolation prize (I'm not saying to put 10 times as many P9 cards but just a substantial number of older small gems) and the feeling to have pulled SOMETHING for most bulk buyers. I just hope I'll get SOMETHING out of my 3 boxes, even if it's one of the weakest offerings on the list - it's about the feeling of drawing the card, not the quick $300 jackpot.


And to rate "IM Legend" as a 5... oh well, someone obviously liked it, but frankly, I'd consider that one rated about 4 stars too highly... as if we hadn't had enough colo philosophy articles in the past.


And to rate "IM Legend" as a 5... oh well, someone obviously liked it, but frankly, I'd consider that one rated about 4 stars too highly... as if we hadn't had enough colo philosophy articles in the past.




I got the impression he was using the Guitar Hero rating system for most of these (granted I really don't have any issues with any of his articles, but there were like what, 3 out of 100 articles that had less than 3 stars?).

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.

These don't just take a long time to write; they take a long time to read too. I spent two and a half hours in the Making Magic archives because of this article.


I think the shard week articles were fives, too. I love how blue starts off the interview, haha.


On the subject of mythics, Mindbreak Trap doesn't do it for me. It counters uncounterable spells, but uncounterable spells aren't exactly all over the place. It just feels like a glorified Double Negative to me. Not mythic at all. Even the most awesome counterspells like Time Stop, Swift Silence, and Decree of Silence seem like a stretch. Counterspells pretty much fit the bill perfectly of those common effects like Naturalize that just aren't special enough.


And the other thing concerns Warren Instigators. Double strike or no, a 1/1 goblin isn't a mythic. It does something powerful, but the real mythic is the six-mana goblin he's dropping onto the field. 


This applies to Lotus Cobra as well. As a rule of thumb, rares accelerate into stuff; mythics are the stuff being accelerated into. I don't think Black Lotus is mythic anymore than a dual land or a Birds of Paradise. Sorry.

Making strong cards, even at Mythic, do not make Magic more expensive of a hobby.  With the smaller set sizes, Magic actually became much cheaper.  But starting with M10 there have been massive shortages of cards being printed.  That is what has made M10 cards so expensive, and it seams like it is continuing with Zendikar.  I know our local store is having a hard time getting enough boxes to supply their customer's pre-orders.


It doesnt really make any sense for WotC to limit supply, so I am really hoping that this has just been a mistake.  Hopefully it will not take long for WotC to fix whatever is screwed up.  Once production steps up then the card prices will drop again.  The average pack of Alara Block cards will get you about $2.13 worth of Rares/Mythics.  But the average pack of M10 will get you $4.42 worth of Rares/Mythics.  This is partially because the cards are much better, but it is mostly because M10 boxes are harder to come by. 


This lack of supply is what is making Magic so much more expensive.  WotC has been doing great things to lower the cost of playing Magic for the last year.  But this lack of production is destroying all of their efforts.  And it doesnt make any sense, because WotC makes no extra money from the secondary card market other than selling them boxes.  If card prices are high just because not enough cards are printed, then WotC is losing alot of potential sales.


Right now the average sac land is going for about $19 online.  As long as WotC prints enough cards that price should easily drop to closer to $11-$12.

The ocassional extrememly expensive Mythic Rare is nothing to be upset about.  Cards like Baneslayer and Lotus Cobra are not making Standard more expensive because you do not have to play with those cards.  When the land bases are expensive it has a much greater impact because far more decks need Dual lands than need an individual finisher or mana accelerator.


When almost every competitive deck needs one or more extremely expensive Mythic playset then WotC would have screwed up (unless they really are just trying for a money grab).  But as long as there are only a few decks using them it will not be a problem.


I looked at the top 3 decks at the StarCityGames $5k Tournament on 8/30/09 and found that the average deck cost $356.  The top 2 cost $316 on average, but the third place deck was 5 color and had Baneslayer, so it cost $436.  This shows that most standard decks can still be made for around $300 even in a format with alot of dual lands and baneslayer angel.  Standard is not that expensive, and with the rotation of Reflecting Pool and Filter lands it will get even cheaper.


And if WotC fixes their production problems, it will get even cheaper.  As long as enough cards are printed, I would be suprised if the average deck doesnt take closer to $250 to build in a few months (unless WotC continues to limit card supply with insufficient print runs).


I looked at the top 3 decks at the StarCityGames $5k Tournament on 8/30/09 and found that the average deck cost $356.  The top 2 cost $316 on average, but the third place deck was 5 color and had Baneslayer, so it cost $436.  This shows that most standard decks can still be made for around $300 even in a format with alot of dual lands and baneslayer angel.  Standard is not that expensive, and with the rotation of Reflecting Pool and Filter lands it will get even cheaper.


And if WotC fixes their production problems, it will get even cheaper.  As long as enough cards are printed, I would be suprised if the average deck doesnt take closer to $250 to build in a few months (unless WotC continues to limit card supply with insufficient print runs).



That is freakin' ridiculous.

I have never, EVER played a deck so expensive in constructed and I do really friggin' well in constructed.  I built my Mono-Red Shaman deck for maybe 20 bucks and, until the morons in my meta realized how insanely good White is, it went undefeated for weeks.


Magic should not be that expensive to make 1, competitive, deck. Note I did not say, "to play," just to "compete."


Lands/Lotus + Slayers is going to be a top tier deck and the fact that it costs so much is NOT okay.

Well, one thing I would have rated at 5 stars would be 'a view from the top (june 15, 2009)' as you have a design column, you clearly stated why decisions were made, what would come out as a card and you clearly hit a good spot as readers liked how it was done.


Your twitter style I would never rate above three , simply because this is supposed to be a column, twitter just doesn't fill that role. Obviously this is my personal opinion, if other people like it, all for the better.


As mythic rare goes, I think that Felidar Sovereign doesn't fill mythic rare well. First of all, a mythic rare should feel good in all corners. Just because it's powerfull or jaw-dropping when someone plays it doesn't fit the bill right from the start. Artwork, abilities, flavor...it all has to come together on a mythic rare. Now, let's take Felidar Sovereign. You win the game if you have more than 40 life. How exactly does this fit with a big creature. Sure, you have the flavour text which states it knows how to survive but that doesn't mean win the game, it means it's hard to kill the thing. Also, for a 4/6 I'd expect quite the animal but the artwork hardly gives me the idea that this in fact is a big powerfull critter.


Obviously the planeswalkers feel very special and should fill the role of mythic rare. Dragons and angels quickly can go that way but you have to be carefull not to take that too far. Baneslayer angel for instance IS a mythic rare but Jenara, Asura of War misses out. It's just a 3/3 angel that can grow itself. This doesn't feel mythic at all since at three mana it can simply be lightning bolted out of the game. There's hardly anything mythic about this and it really feels like this was pushed to mythic because it's an angel.


One way of showing how a not widely used card does make it to mythic would be Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund. Tournament-wise this won't see much play if any (unless things really get shaken up which I doubt) but the whole feel of a big tyrant which in one fell swoop will dominate all the dragons around (and dragons aren't shabby in any way) totally feels mythic rare.


And as previously posted by someone, mirror-sigil sergeant doesn't feel mythic and I think that has to do with it's name. It's ability definitely feels mythic, if you don't do anything about it this will get out of hand quickly but to say a sergeant is mythic......well, to me that feels wrong.


Hope this helps you in your thought processes Mark.


 

I believe the Felidar Sovereign is fine at mythic.  The art seems powerful in my mind and the flavor text reinforces its abilities.  Also, its final effect can automatically win you the game on your upkeep.


 0012_MTGZEN_EN_LR.jpg


Mindbreak Trap pushes the border of what should be Mythic.  However, it doesn't counter spells.  It exiles them, making sure they can't come back.


Warren Instigator doesn't feel mythic in its art nor its flavor text, but playing two free goblins on a turn which can cause issues so it seems fine as a mythic (though it should probably have haste to fit better as a mythic).


If Lotus Cobra were in any other set, it would be a rare because it would accelerate you only one, maybe two mana.  But with all the ways to get lands out of your deck it accelerates  mana better than almost any other card.  Though, it also heavily pushes the boundary on what is mythic.

IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1205820039/Scorecards/Landscape.png)

i think the biggest problem is when you say


There was some debate whether Lotus Cobra, as an example, was supposed to be rare or mythic rare. In the end, mythic rare won out because the majority believed that the potential to explosively cast large spells felt special.


most people just don't believe you. when you come out with a set that has full art lands, tweaked reprints of highly expensive and/or previously banned cards, and super ultra yugiohrare power 9, it just seems like you're throwing all your back-pocket rainy day tricks directly into our eyeballs at the same time and it's not hard to add "breaking that promise about utility mythics to make a quick buck" to the list.


and when you say "we were still deciding what mythic rares were going to be when i told you what they were going to be and then uh we changed our minds" at the same time you're saying you DIDN'T go back on anything you said, it comes across as less than honest. i'll have to remember the "i was still working on it" argument the next time i get caught in a lie, though. could come in handy.


when you tell us something about a major and potentially upsetting change to this game, make sure you get it right. keep in mind you're kind of an important guy in magic, and we often take stuff you say as official. if that's not the case, don't talk as if it is. and if for whatever reason you get it wrong, an apology would go a long way to making people feel better.

For the record, I'm not so much into this type of article. Perhaps for five hundred you could comemorate your achievement by analyzing how that column has evolved rather than just rating your past work?


Oh, and congratulations!

Just letting you know that I was inspired to read and did enjoy the article on card codes due to this column.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

Well other people have already gotten to the two worst points that came to my mind when I saw this:


1) We should have been reading more about the new set here. Self-congratulatory articles can wait for another time. People opened cards from the Reserved List this weekend and no one wants to talk about that? The set that was hotly anticipated just had a prerelease and no one wants to talk about that?


2) This was the worst excuse for why Lotus Cobra is mythic that I've seen yet, and possibly the worst case of backpedaling in a MaRo article, but that there was a "debate" over it means that there are people at R&D who actually understood why it should have been a regular rare.


"Is deciding what is rare and what is mythic rare an exact science? No. We are constantly fiddling with the line, because we are trying internally to get the right feel. There was some debate whether Lotus Cobra, as an example, was supposed to be rare or mythic rare. In the end, mythic rare won out because the majority believed that the potential to explosively cast large spells felt special."


Yes, the ability to win one or two turns earlier, which turns cards into staples, somehow feels "special." Now if this is false, it's just another lie. But if it is true, it is an indicator of how out of touch the team that runs the metagame for the players actually is. We are constantly debating why some mana acceleration such as Birds of Paradise and Noble Heirarch are rare. Now a card that works very much like those two cards, and in fact can work much better than them, has gotten a promotion. This is very cut and dry to me.


"We've also decided that there are certain things we specifically do not want to be mythic rares. The largest category is utility cards, what I'll define as cards that fill a universal function. Some examples of this category would be cycles of dual lands and cards like Mutavault or Char."


So if Lotus Cobra is not utility, then neither is Noble Heirarch, and we'll be seeing that in the mythic slot soon enough.



most people just don't believe you. when you come out with a set that has full art lands, tweaked reprints of highly expensive and/or previously banned cards, and super ultra yugiohrare power 9, it just seems like you're throwing all your back-pocket rainy day tricks directly into our eyeballs at the same time and it's not hard to add "breaking that promise about utility mythics to make a quick buck" to the list.




 Well put sir. (Where is the tiphat smilie when you need it?)

I think that when a mythic rare doesn't feel mythic, it's usually because of the art and concept.  For instance, while Warren Instigator's ability is potentially quite explosive and therefore mythic in its potential, the creature's art and concept suggest that it's just a random goblin alarm-raiser.  The card would make a better first impression on me if the goblin looked more imposing in the art and if it were concepted as, say, an ancient goblin warlord who causes other goblins to flock to him.


On the subject of mythics, Mindbreak Trap doesn't do it for me. It counters uncounterable spells, but uncounterable spells aren't exactly all over the place. It just feels like a glorified Double Negative to me. Not mythic at all. Even the most awesome counterspells like Time Stop, Swift Silence, and Decree of Silence seem like a stretch. Counterspells pretty much fit the bill perfectly of those common effects like Naturalize that just aren't special enough.




While I agree with most of what you said, I'm going to disagree here, particularly about Time Stop (the other 2 are fine arguments). Time Stop isn't just "counter all other spells". It's also "counter all other ablities" and, if timed properly, it's an instant-speed Time Warp. While Time Warp isn't mythic quality (probably the only one of the M10 Mythics that shouldn't have been Mythic, although I'll forgive it since it's kind of narrow), the fact that it can counter abilities as well as spells and can be played at instant speed is really good. It's basically Silence + Fog + Stifle + Mindbreak Trap + a bunch of other cards that haven't been made yet, all rolled up into one. I would definitely say it's mythic quality.

I think that in a vacuum, Mindbreak Trap DOES feel mythic. Mythics shouldn't be restricted to big creatures and planeswalkers, spells should be represented too so long as they are epic enough, and exiling all spells for free is fairly epic (Time Stop would DEFINITELY work).  Mindbreak Trap doesn't exist in a vacuum however, it exists in a world where it perfectly hoses a strategy that every single deck in a format needs to deal with and every single deck in that format can run Mindbreak Trap. This makes it, for all intents and purposes, utility, but I understand where they're coming from when they say it does something special that hasn't been done before.


Instigator definitely needed to be flavored differently, apart from that I'm fine with it.


If Lotus Cobra somehow actually captured the essence of a black lotus (simply being a good mana accelerator is not the same thing), I might have been able to excuse it. But sticking "Lotus" onto a good mana accelerator does not a Mythic make.

Firstly: What was the average rating, like 4/5? As if this type of article wouldn't be nigh worthless to begin with, even the ratings have been rendered meaningless.


Secondly: Maro you addressed the "mythic" aspect in your "year of living changerously" article. How about the "we will print fewer careds" aspect? Funny how that was basically erased by printing a new core set with new cards each year. (And this is ignoring the fact that mythics themselves basically offset the change. After all, "too many cards" to players means "too much money" and that's it.)


Now regarding mythics:


We want the flavor of mythic rare to be something that feels very special and unique. Generally speaking, we expect that to mean cards like planeswalkers, most legends, and epic-feeling creatures and spells.


Please read that while thinking about Lotus Cobra or Warren Instigator. If you don't see a problem then I think you've mastered the art of lying to yourself. Lotus Cobra is purely mechanical, and Warren Instigator, as has already been mentioned, is just some random goblin running around.


As far as Mindbreak Trap, I'll just say that outside of vintage it will be functionally equivalent to Disspate almost every time it's cast. That means it really is, as others have said, a cash-grab for type one players (unless you think Dissipate is actually worthy of being a mythic).


The card has the word Lotus in its name because it reminded many R&D members of Black Lotus, and it's hard to argue that that card wouldn't have been mythic rare if the rarity had existed in Alpha.


The card has "Lotus" in it's name because you thought it would remind players of Black Lotus, thus making it an easier sell as a mythic.


 



 

Honestly mindbreak trap I can see as mythic, if only because it's the only counterspell that actually makes me giddy ("Oh, you remanded another spell, good job, would you like a cookie?" (Not that I'm bashing control players, it's just usually pretty boring to play against)).
Of course, this fact depresses me, because I want a set for my trap deck...

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.

I see a lot of complaints that only three articles were rated below 3 stars...  MaRo, apparently your writing is too consistently good.  I suggest writing a few terrible articles during the next 100 weeks, just so you can give them low ratings in "Five Hundred and Counting".  ;)


By the way, the title for Week #319's article somehow escaped its heading and ended up in the description for Week #320.

now that i have time i think i'm going to elaborate on my hasty before-work post.


i used it in several earlier posts on this subject but i'll say now that lie is probably a strong word. since everyone seems to have a slightly different personal definition of utility, and since you didn't say "no utility mythics" (you just said you didn't "want" utility cards to be mythics, which strongly suggested they wouldn't exist) i think i should have used the term "misled." you misled us, and it was not appreciated.


What we didn't want in mythic rare were spells that you saw all the time in lower rarities doing simple, plain things only cheaper and more powerfully. We shouldn't, as an example, print Naturalize for G and stick it in mythic rare. This is what I meant when I used the term "utility." Being powerful is not unto itself a reason to make a card mythic rare.


the problem with this explanation is that mythic cheaper naturalize or mythic dual land doesn't seem any different to me than a mythic birds of paradise version that potentially makes more than one mana a turn. if mana fixing lands fit your definition of utility (and you did list them next to stuff like naturalize in your original article) then why wouldn't cheap and efficient mana fixing creatures fit utility? i just don't understand the logic there. mythic lotus cobra seems like a spell that you see in lower rarities doing a simple, plain thing except more powerfully. and since you're not a stupid person, using an illogical argument like the one quoted above makes it appear that you are just lying (and the word is appropriate here).


but maybe i'm wrong and there's a good argument for why birds of paradise isn't utility but dual lands are. i'm open to listening to an explanation from anyone who thinks that's true.


i briefly mentioned several aspects of zendikar and i'd like to elaborate on those as well:


1. regarding some of the non-lotus-cobra cards in this set that have caused a stir:


warren instigator is fine. i don't think it's a good mythic but i understand the argument for it. the flavor is there, and yes it's not that epic but at least the card's flavor and mechanics link up, and it can be exciting to play with.


mindbreak trap really irritated me initially, because it's basically a hoser for storm, cascade, and uncounterables (two of which find homes in the same decks in standard) and a hoser is a pretty bad mythic rare. imagine deathmark or pithing needle, for instance, at mythic rare. i don't think anyone would put deathmark or pithing needle in a different box than stuff like naturalize. ironically it was lotus cobra that made me accept the argument for this at mythic, because next to the starkly basic usefulness of lotus cobra, mindbreak trap does look kind of exotic and interesting. i now look at it the way i look at baneslayer: a blatant money grab, but at least the effort was made to dress it up pretty. i appreciate that.


2. regarding the power 9 in zendikar: i actually think this is pretty neat. i don't think they will appear in enough packs to bring prices up outrageously (i could be wrong about this) and because they aren't new cards they aren't making anything more rare. by putting these in boxes they are actually making cards that were already quite rare LESS rare. they are putting cards that could potentially make people very happy into circulation, rather than leaving them to collect dust somewhere. some kids who would never have otherwise owned some of those cards can own them.


that said, some part of me cringes remembering the time i saw a 12 year old kid rip through a pack of lorwyn, find garruk, look bored, and toss him into a plastic bag to open some more booster packs (of yugioh). now i imagine that kid opening black lotus. and i can also see a future where this kind of super rare distribution in boxes happens with new cards rather than old cards. cards like birds of paradise II (costs 0, makes two mana, has deathtouch) and super counterspell (costs U, exiles the card).


3. regarding full art basics: full art basics are awesome.


so basically, nothing in zendikar is particularly upsetting on its own (except for lotus cobra). it's the sheer density that's disturbing. it leads inevitably to the question "what does this mean for the future?" what is going to be in worldwake boosters, hundred dollar bills? are the fat packs going to have caviar and gold bars in them (with a short excerpt of the relevant novel as well)?



Where is the tiphat smilie when you need it?




on the now defunct gleemax site we used to enjoy, hanging out with its buddies card tags and [sblock].


I may well have made the opposite argument before, but this is my opinion as it currently stands; Mindbreak Trap is doing something we've never seen before, and a very powerful, if narrow, something at that.



Incorrect.  Mindbreak Trap is entirely what we've seen before, just never all in one card.  It's a combination of Swift Silence (in its ability to counter multiple spells), Dissipate (or another counterspell that exiles the card, but this is the simplest) and Venser, Shaper Savant (in the ability to hit the uncounterable spells).  The only new thing is "Free Mechanic 2.0" trap ability which is clearly not unique to mythic rares.  No, the best argument you could make is that it's because you've piled on a bunch of abilities and the card doesn't cost a thousand mana to cast, so that's why it's mythic.  In the case of Baneslayer, at least there's something in the flavor that you could argue makes it feel mythic.  Unless there's a trap has some world changing ability I can't see any flavor arguments for why it's mythic.


"We wanted mythic rares to feel special. We wanted them to be cards that felt worthy of being mythic rare...  In the end, mythic rare won out because the majority believed that the potential to explosively cast large spells felt special."


Lots of cards feel special.  This is far too broad of an argument to actually have any meaning.  I would argue that Oracle of Mul Daya feels at least as special, heck even more special.  It breaks several rules of magic.  As someone pointed out earlier, all of the Ascencions feel more special (obviously they don't want those at mythic because there's a large set of players who are going to want to build decks around these cards that scream "build a deck around me!").  Magosi, the Waterveil feels incredibly special.  Why wasn't that mythic?  Furthermore, Black Lotus wouldn't have been printed at Mythic Rare... because it wasn't.  It was designed to be just as hard to get as every other rare in the set.  The technology was there to make some cards more rare than others, but they chose not to do so for a reason.  The only reason it even feels mythic to us now is because it's become nearly mythic on its own.  You can't find one because there are only a small number of them and everyone is clutching them with a dethgrip.  If it had continued to be printed in every set since then, there would be no 'mythicness' attached to it at all.


Edit: A lot of people have brought up far better points than I just did.  Feel free to ignore my last paragraph.

Okay, so here's a theory.  When you're Wizards and you're printing a card, you want to make sure it is the right rarity for its target audience (i.e. you want to motivate as many people as possible to buy as many cards as possible).


So, cards for Limited players, extremely casual players, and collectors who admire the art and flavor:  Common.  These are the people who look at every card in a booster pack, so make the common cards for them.


These players will also want occasional rarer and more complicated cards: Uncommon.


Timmy, who wants flashy spells and creatures his friends may not have seen:  Rare.


Johnny, who wants cards to build around, and is willing to purchase them as singles, but is not prepared to spend a large amount of money: Rare.


Spike,  who needs to build a deck as good as anything his opponents might have, and already has a bunch of money on the line just to play in tournaments: Mythic Rare.


It's all about knowing what you can convince your target audience to spend, and charging them that much but no more.

Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!
My Decks
These are the decks I have assembled at the moment:
Tournament Decks (4)
Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block) Sunforger/Izzet Guildmage Midrange (Ravnica/Time Spiral/Xth Standard) Dragonstorm Combo (Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Xth Standard) Bant Midrange (Lorwyn/Shards/M10 Standard)
Casual Multiplayer Decks (50)
Angel Resurrection Casual Soul Sisters Sindbad's Adventures with Djinn of Wishes Sphinx-Bone Wand Buyback Morph (No Instants or Sorceries) Cabal Coffers Control Zombie Aggro Hungry, Hungry Greater Gargadon/War Elemental Flashfires/Boil/Ruination - Boom! Call of the Wild Teysa, Orzhov Scion with Twilight Drover, Sun Titan, and Hivestone Slivers Rebels Cairn Wanderer Knights Only Gold and () Spells Captain Sisay Toolbox Spellweaver Helix Combo Merfolk Wizards Izzet Guildmage/The Unspeakable Arcane Combo Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and his Wizards Creatureless Wild Research/Reins of Power Madness Creatureless Pyromancer Ascension Anarchist Living Death Anvil of Bogardan Madness Shamen with Goblin Game/Wound Reflection Combo Mass damage Quest for Pure Flame Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle/Clear the Land with 40+ Lands Doubling Season Thallids Juniper Order Ranger Graft/Tokens Elf Archer Druids Equilibrium/Aluren Combo Experiment Kraj Combo Reap Combo False Cure/Kavu Predator Combo Savra, Queen of the Golgari Sacrifice/Dredge Elf Warriors Eight-Post Sneak Attack Where Ancients Tread Zur the Enchanter with Opal creatures Tamanoa/Kavu Predator/Collapsing Borders Esper Aggro Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and his Darksteel Reactor Theft and Control Unearth Aggro Soul's Fire Vampires Devour Tokens Phytohydra with Powerstone Minefield Treefolk Friendly? Questing Phelddagrif Slivers Dragon Arch Fun I'm probably forgetting a few...

The last thing mythic rarity should EVER be is the place Spike gets all of his cards. Even MaRo admits that. The argument that "Spike already spends lots of money" holds no water. Everyone likes good cards. You don't just put them at mythic rare. For that matter, one of the biggest problems with competitive magic is how muh it costs to play. Wizards has a degree of control over that, and the correct thing to do is use the rarities where they belong. We can't agree entirely what should be at any rarity, much less mythic rare, but MaRo is dead wrong when he says Lotus Cobra belongs there for any reason other than to make a very desirable card require that many more boosters to open.


It's all about knowing what you can convince your target audience to spend, and charging them that much but no more.




This is almost true.  The important difference is the implication that players are stuck in one demographic.  Several years ago I decided that the Spike in me had grown and that I wanted to start shelling out some money in order to actually play constructed competitively.  This was about in Ravnica.  Then Time Spiral came out, and simply because of the existence of the purple cards, I calculated how much more expensive things were going to become (on average)*, and realized that the cost wasn't worth it to me.  Every now and then I reconsider to see if I think the expense is worth it, but it isn't.  Putting the utility cards like Mindbreak Trap in mythic will continue to keep players from making the extra step necessary into investing more money and time into their cards.


*I recognize that the purple cards didn't have as large an impact as I originally anticipated, but the resentment was great enough to overlook that.

the "spike already spends the money" argument is completely ludicrous because it assumes that spike has infinite money. yeah, spike already spends a lot of money on the game. and maybe he's NOT RICH and therefore has a spending limit. saying he spends the money anyway so he'll spend four times as much ignores so many factors it's silly.

I know that there has been a lot of good points made over the mythic rarity, and I figured I'd put in my two cents too.


I personally feel that, up until M10, that the mythic rare was being represented and done very well. In it we had the heroes of each shard and their most powerful residents. We had artifacts that allowed us to come back from death and spells that let us harvest the very core of a horrifying cataclysm that was going to destroy 5 different planes of existance. We even had planeswalkers, beings that roam the multiverse going dplane to plane having the same kind of battles and experiences, flavor wise, that we as players do. Only 1 or two rares, like Mirror-sigil Sergeant, don't make a ton of sense, but his ability was so limiting that it really wasnt that big of a deal, and one could make the argument that being able to self-replicate your very being, even if you needed a little help, could be a big deal as not many creatures in the multiverse seem capable of that.


 


Now we get to M10, and see a lot of the same things. Planeswalkers are now mythic (though it's getting a little tiresome to see them ALL at mythic mostly due to the fact that I personally feel that it is shutting out an entire card type from the casual and new player audience due to high prices, and yet they are marketed as the face of magic and thus the most desirable cards for new players to get, kind of like holding a small child ice cream and then charging him 10 dollars for it, but at least they dont break flavor.) Then we have the epic feeling creatures, baneslayer included, and mythic spells, like bending the very fabric of time. However, we now get into the feeling that these were not done as well as before, as we now have very clear power differences between rarities. Yes, you could play Serra Angel in your construced deck, bt why would you ever when there is a card that does everything better than it for the same price. That is partly what makes MaRo's argument today a little bit weaker, because in saying that he wouldn't print a naturalize variant at G and make it mythic is kind of invalidated by the very presence of Baneslayer Angel. Not entirely, however, as Baneslayer is far from utility, though very playable and powerful. The problem lies in that Baneslayer has been done before right in the same set, Serra Angel. Yes, Baneslayer is not cheaper than Serra, but she is almost completely better. Instead of making Serra cheaper and making her mythic, you just gave her more abilities and made her mythic. At least here, however, she is FLAVORFULLY mythic, a huge angel that has no fear of dragons or demons and its immensly powerful, is mythic.


 


Now we get to Zendikar, and here's where things go bad. Yes, we have our planeswalkers, and they all feel quite mythic. We have some legends, and they all feel like the most powerful creatures on the plane. We even have a couple of cool artifacts that feel like ancient artifacts of pure power, and fit into the whole discovery/adventure theme of the set. However, the non-planeswalker or legendary mythics is where we start hitting trouble.


Rampaging Baloths, though no one is talking about it at all, doesn't feel hugely mythic to me. Yes, it's power level is definitely up there with a mythic, but flavorfully it doesn't feel mythic at all. If this world is as wild and dangerous as it's being hyped up to be, I doubt that a pack of baloths would be the among the rarest things youd see on the plane. Though it is definitely not a staple nor utility, it does feel weird with this being mythic, it just doesn't feel special.


Mindbreak trap, the first real offender here, doesn't feel that mythic either. The world is full of adventurers and traps, and flavorfully you would basically be playing the numbers game before enough people on Zendikar found the traps or it's world. I could understand if maybe this was like, THE last defence against raiders and that this trap was only located by the one lucky survivor who made it to the inner sanctum of the ruin, maybe to find some Eldrazi, and was completely obliterated by the trap in order to prevent spreading it's location. However, this just looked like some guy in a generic waterfall area being accosted by statues. Also, it does what less rare spells do, only better. This is the big issue here. It effectively counters numerous spells at the same time cheaper than spells like swift silence and better. It really doesn't feel special.


 


Warren Instigator is simply put not really mythic in any way outside of maybe power level. Yes, it is a very powerful effect, but in this current standard environment it is very limited in its power. In order to get it's maximum potential you need to hit your opponent with it and have two goblin cards in hand to get into play. This card has not gotten as much anger directed towards it because it is not a staple in decks; it can really do into goblin decks in order to be its most powerful, and maybe some R/G decks that use it for its double strike ability (which is an insanely powerful ability that people overlook these days). Mostly, the anger comes from the fact that it is no way flavorfully mythic. It does not feel special in any way. It is simply just a scared goblin the runs around like a screaming idiot looking for help. If magic lore is to be believed, 99% of goblins are screaming idiots, and this being mythic because it's the one goblin that other goblins listen to is no good.


Which brings us to lotus cobra. What can I say that hasn't been said. This is not flavorfully mythic, it does not feel special. It is a snake that hangs out near lotuses. Lotuses in and of themself are pretty mythic, since they are in Magic lore what appears to be the pure embodiment of mana in physical form. Some snake that just happens to live in them, however, does not feel special. It's ust a snake.


The huge issue here is that this creature is a utility creature plain and simple. Lets go over it. What does he do? He makes mana. How? By you, as it's controller, playing lands. That is not special. There are countless creatures out there that make mana of all different colors in all colors. This card makes mana by you doing something that you do in every deck, play lands. I don't know which writer said this, but I would definitely like to use his quote on this one. This card is a pure staple, plain and simple. Like what that writer said about Watchwolf was that you needed a clear reason NOT to play Watchwolf, he was that good. This card is the same. It's function is so universal and so powerful, it's cost is so managable, and the way to go about using its ability is so utterly basic that you NEED to find a reason to not put it in every deck that runs green. If you have a green deck that plays lands you basically play this guy. No deck does not want more mana at 0 cost to themselves (the thing doesnt even tap to make mana) outside of the initial cost of an efficient creature. Oh yeah, and there was the whole "this reminds us of lotus, which would definitely be a mythic rare now" which really does NOT help your argument. That is one of the main reasons why people are angry from what I've gathered, they feel that the word lotus was just tacked onto a creature in order to make it seem more mythic. Proving them right does not solve the problem at hand.


 


So the big issue here is that these spells dont fel special. They aren't hugely defining spells that can cause ruination upon any planeswalker that happens to have to face them. The first two are just mildly generic spells while second two are creatures that are just creatures that have been done better elsewhere and have no flavorful reasons for being mythic.


Just a little advice for the next time you design a card and decide whether or not it's special enough. Remember that we now have a card, designed at rare in M10, that can destroy an entire plane of existance. An entire plane, gone, in one spell, and this was not considered special enough to be mythic. Now, the next time you see a card, really think if it's more special than wiping away an entire plane with one spell, and if it is not then it probably should not be mythic, unless it's power level, and non-staple status, allow it to be so.


 


Final note, about 80% of the magic community, I would estimate from forum viewing and talking to people (although a biased audience I'll admit, but still I'm going on what I've seen and read) think that Lotus Cobra is a tremendous screw up. They would like to hear that from you guys. We don't know if you can contractually admit that you screwed up on the site, but if you can it would put a lot of people at east and restore a lot of the trust and faith that was lost with this card.

You know, there's also something weird about mythics that die to lava dart. I mean, I know dies to removal blahblahblah and I'm not saying they're not good, but given the timmy fodder the mythic rarity in general is, it's kind of amusing to think of some 8 year old (not that all timmies are 8 year olds, but all 8 year olds are timmies) getting all excited over pulling a mythic only to see it's a 2/1.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.

Playing cards like Ancient Spring, Grinning Ignus and Seething Song allow you to cast much bigger spells on turn 4 than you would normally be able to. And they are all commons.

It sure is nice for the timmies to get some cards to sell to the spikes for a change. Spikes are happy to let timmy pay extra for something, but bawwww as soon as they might have to do the same. Well, boo hoo. If you can't afford to play competitively, then play casually. The sky isn't falling just because you can't go and win more free stuff, on top of the stuff you already have to play with and enjoy.

"It sure is nice for the timmies to get some cards to sell to the spikes for a change. Spikes are happy to let timmy pay extra for something, but bawwww as soon as they might have to do the same. Well, boo hoo. If you can't afford to play competitively, then play casually. The sky isn't falling just because you can't go and win more free stuff, on top of the stuff you already have to play with and enjoy."


 


 


Seconded.


BTW Lotus cobra feels perfectly mithic to me.


It sure is nice for the timmies to get some cards to sell to the spikes for a change. Spikes are happy to let timmy pay extra for something, but bawwww as soon as they might have to do the same.




Except Spike pays at most 100 dollars for a set, whereas Timmy has to buy assloads of boosters to get a set, likely paying at least four times as much (granted, Timmies can buy singles too, but then they're paying the same price as Spike and if they sold it, it'd be at a loss).

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
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