Pathfinder sorcerer guide brainstorming

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There has been talk about building class guides incorporating the new pathfinder classes. Overall most of the same advise applies, but there are difference. The sorcerer has remained mostly the same in terms of spell selection, which is by far the most important facet of the character but pathfinder has incorporated bloodlines, which serve as a group of choosable class feature that give the sorcerer a much needed reason to not take a prestige class, as well as expand the flavor. I wanted to get public input on people's preferences.

here's my take:

Aberrant- while this has an odd flavor it a fairly good bloodline, especially the long limbs power dealing touch spells at a range is great. It has some decent spells too.

 Abyssal- The summon stuff is cool, the gishy stuff isn't 50/50

 Arcane- The is the default bloodline, so it's a good thing it worth taking- it's pretty great all around. Good spell list, choosable skill, almost decent feat list and generally useful powers. If you aren't sure what to do take this.

 Celestial-meh- it has some dive spells you can't get otherwise, which is cool. The flight, while limited, is given early enough to be a draw. lots of resistances. Ascension is good. but the healy stuff is weak. over all you won't be gimped to use it.

 Destined- I don't like it. it seems to be divination based, and the new diviner wizard is amazing and this one isn't so...yeah it has boring flavor and its not that enticing. If someone noticed something I didn't tell me. Because this one looks like the worst bloodline.

 Draconic- solid, but not great. I'm not crazy about aligning myself with a particular element, but this class has other things going for it. like class skill:perception. nice. And wings. I'm a sucker for wings (especially buffalo) though it does come in rather late. My real problem is that three spells are wasted on form of dragon.

 Elemental- I like the flavor but it's bad for the same reasons elemental savant are bad. If you are made of fire and fight a fire creature, you're boned. I'd choose air though if I took the bloodline (electricity and flight are better than the other energy and movement combos, seriously who needs a swim speed without waterbreathing?)

 Fey- I like this one a lot, but probably more than it deserves. It gives a decent skill, and it spells are pretty good ( i really like irresistible dance and shapechange) It has some good powers and some not so good ones.

 Infernal- It's good, class skill: diplomacy is a good start, and corrupting touch is cool. That said, if you hate enchantment you won't like it. But I do like enchantment. but I don't like meteor swarm. still better than abyssal.

 Undead- Pretty good, but I'm not sold on there sorcerer-necromancer. leave it to the clerics. but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

 I'd love to hear what other people think.

PS: for those who haven't bought the book.

Alright, I'll get the first response happening.  Hopefully some other CO will share their opinions:

Aberrant: The Bonus Spell list is pretty good, with some gems like Enlarge Person and Black Tentacles.  If you are making a sorcerer that is going to focus on touch attacks, long limbs is a fantastic ability that can keep you making melee attacks without entering melee.  If you are going to take this bloodline, I think that's the way to go with it.

Abyssal: Bloodline Arcana is not nearly as good as it sounds (Summoned creatures get 1/2 your level as DR/Good if they otherwise wouldn't have any).  Almost every summoned creature has DR, so it's useless 99% of the time.  In either case, a big part of the point of summoned creatures is to make them a target, this does not achieve that.  Few summoned creatures actually die in combat in my experience.

The 15th level power however is what the Malconvoker gives up a full casting level for.  Very tough.

Basically, before level 15 I think this bloodline doesn't work as advertised, after that point, it does.

Arcane: Not exceptional, but solid.  Some minor DC boosts, a couple extra known spells, a bit of a boost with metamagic.  Nothing really stands out here, but altogether, I think there are some decent boosts.

Celestial: As the Abyssal bloodline, the "bonus" to DR is pretty useless.  Really, I'm pretty dissapointed with this one.  The bonus spell list doesn't really have any standouts, the bonus feat list is poor (maybe you can work out some manouverability techniques with Ride by attack?  Maybe if you have a flying mount...)  The bloodline powers leave me unimpressed.  Flight at level 9 (I've been flying for 4 levels already), conviction is OK (reminicent of the Fatespinner ability), but overall, I think this one is a bit weaker.

Destined: Really, really poor.  Nothing particularly standout here at all.  A few 1 round buffs, but 1 round really isn't very good duration for a buff (you normally expect a cantrip buff to have a 1 round duration).  I'm not really seeing the appeal of this one.

Draconic: First off, I think getting perception as a class skill is quite good.  The bonus spell list is decent (mage armor and fly are standouts).  The bonus feat list is OK too (Toughness, Quicken spell, Improved Init).  The bloodline arcana and bloodline powers leave me flat though.  I really don't want claws for my arcane caster, breath weapons are inferior to simple blast spells, and wings at level 15 is a bit late IMO.  The bonus damage on Bloodline Arcana might be OK for a blaster I suppose, but not great even then since it pigeonholes you to a specific energy type.

Elemental: Again, waiting for level 15 for anything good.  Energy substitution early on basically amounts to one so-so bonus feat.  The feat and spell lists aren't anything special.

Fey: The bonus spell list is pretty interesting, with some traditionally non-sorcerer spells in there (entangle, tree stride).  The bonus feat list is decent.  +2 bonus to complusion DC's is a pretty nice bonus if you are going with a specialty in these spells.  Greater invisibility as a spell like ability at level 9 is pretty good.  Overall, this is a good choice.

Infernal: Diplomacy as a class skill for a sorcerer?  Yes please.  Reasonably good bonus spell list, the bonus feat list is OK.  Charm bonus of +2 DC (similar to the Fey bloodline ability, but Charm instead of compulsion).  The bloodline powers are so-so, but overall, I think this choice is solid for a manipulator build.

Undead: Good bonus feats, the bonus spell list is predictable for the bloodline (not great but OK).  The bloodline arcana is going to be steller in an undead heavy campaign.  The abilities are decent as well.  Grasp of the dead seems pretty solid, and incorporeal form as well.  I think it's a pretty good choice.

Well flavour wise I like the Abberant but yes, the Arcane bloodline is by far the best. Best spells, best special power and good feats.

EDDIT: A second reading made me realise I was wrong about how powerfull the Arcane Bloodline is. The spell list is 100% great, all are cherry picks, but after realising that Quicken spell has been revised to work with spontaneous casters, the "modify a spell with a metamagic feat, cast it as a standard action some times per day" isn't THAT awesome - and when it does become awesome at level 20 it's too late.

The DC boosts are neat too but nothing gamebreaking here.

I agree with alot of Treantmonklvl20's opinions, I don't know how I missed Added Summonings as it in and of itself is reason enough to take the abyssal bloodline. I just wonder it it would stack with the malconvolker...

I'm not sure if I'd call the arcane bloodline the hands-down best. It is however the most fool-proof choice. none of its boons are spectacular, but all are good. And it's useful no matter what the build.

The fey bloodline is just kinda cool.

I hope that the advanced player's guide bloodlines will be good. Fingers crossed for giant bloodline. 

The Fey Blodline's +2 to DCs of certain saves or sucks at first level makes me drool. With the addition of a few druid spells to your spell list, it would be my first pick.

For more generalistic builds I would either pick Arcane, for generally solid abilities, or Aberranto for the same reason.

I am not a fan of summoning without acces to rapid summoning like abilities so I wouldn't pick Abysal.


PSD:  I hate the automatic interparragraph space, I can no longer sing properly.

Destined bonus feat choice of leadership deserves mention. It frees up the level 6 slot for several other purposes. Mix with improved leadership from heroes of battle at level 9 and you spent 1 slot for a your level -1 cohort

I personally wouldn't weaken my main character to power up his cohort. That is, I'd rather have a Abberent sorcerer with a level-2 cohort than a destiny sorcerer with a level-1 cohort.

but the leadership feat is a boon to the destiny sorcerer, and worth taking into consideration.

Leadership is the single most overpowered feat in the game... No DM should allow it, unless the party is having real trouble surviving or it consists of one or two players or something.

For the price of a feat, you get a second character..



Too true. leadership gives you more than any other feat. consider "power attack".

That being said, leadership should be taken into account as the destiny sorcerer can take it as a bonus feat, as it is a much more optimized bonus feat for sorcerer than "improved grapple"

What about the Sorcerer variants? Like battle sorcerer from UA. -1 spell known / level for medium BAB and D8 hit die. For PF sorcerers with bloodlines and all, the variant brings them to the normal spells known.

A good tradeoff for gishy characters.

Using that varient would be interesting and would allow a sorcerer to make use of all the melee bonus feats the various bloodlines give him. I'm thinking an abyssal one using his claws, strength boost and summons.

that being said, many DMs fear varients, plus if you're running a pathfinder core only game, that option isn't available.


It's worth mentioning that the dragon disciple prestige class gives some pretty powerful ability score adjustments along with natural armor (+3 natural armor +4 str +2 con +2 int at the end), and additional abilities IN ADDITION to continuing along the blood line, also the attack bonus progression is equal to a rogue's. This means that the dragon disciple allows you to give up some arcane ability (3 caster levels) to become a threat in melee as well as a fairly good caster, without giving up that powerful level 20 ability. So if you do take the draconic bloodline there is a prestige class that makes you actually have a chance to use those claws effectively