Oracle of Mul Daya and Skyward Eye Prophets

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I know this is a yet to be released card on Zendikar set but I know that I will definitely ask this:


 


Oracle of Mul Daya


If I have 2 land card in hand and a opened land card on deck, do I get to play 3 lands (including the normal one land per turn rule)?


If I have 2 Oracle, will I get to play 2 additional lands (assuming that the opened card on deck isn't a land)?


The way I see it, the answer should be "yes" and "yes" to my questions.


Why? Ok, my take here. The ability on the Oracle of playing an additional card will not stifle the ability of this card Skyward Eye Prophets. So if I have the Oracle and the Prophets, the I will be playing 3 land cards (2 from hand and one from deck). In the same genre, the Oracle also says that play with the top card on deck revealed and if it is a land card, you can play it too.


Hence, the sequence of me playing the lands if I have both Oracle and Prophets will be:


(a) draw card


(b) open top card


(c) play land from hand


(d) play land from hand


(e) if top card is land, play land


(f) reveal top card


(g) tap Prophets and play land from deck


Altogether, I can play 4 lands in a turn.


Am I right here?


 

It's hard to understand what you're exactly asking, but I'll try my best.


1. If just the Oracle is in play, you can only play 2 lands. Whether it's two lands from your hand, one from your library and one from your hand, or two from your library, you can only play two. If you mean that you have the Oracle and the Skyward Eye Prophets in play, you can get a total of 3 lands in play. The Prophets ability is not playing a land: it's putting a land into play. Even if you've exausted all of your land drops for the turn, you can still use the Prophet's ability to put a land into play.


2. If you have two Oracles in play, you'll be able to play a total of 3 lands on your turn.

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Questions don't have to make sense, but answers do.

You got my question right


I was just trying to use prophets as a leverage to substantiate the point that I think that one Oracle can play 3 lands if the top card on the deck is also a land.


The way I see it, it seems to be 3 parts of the abilities; play an additional land and play with top card of deck opened. If it's a land, you can chose to play it too.


Take an example. Warp World has a whole mass of rules as its ability. There is no gap between the rules and hence it is taken as one ability. Another card like Noble Hierarch has two abilities, tap for mana or exalted (although in this case, they don't do the same thing). For Oracle, there is a gap between the abilities and hence there are 3 abilities altogether.


One: play additional land - I play


Two: play with top card open on deck - I reveal


Three: If it is a land, you can play it - I play


If it's meant to be play only one additional land, why not worded it as:


"Play with the top card of deck open


You may play an additional land from your hand or from the top card of your deck"


 


 Edit: Another example I can use is the new Trap cards. Pitfall Trap has two parts to its abilities. First part states the condition and what needs to be paid but never states what it is going to do. The second part states the action that the instant spell is doing. So this card clearly dictates that if only 1 creature is attacking, you can pay W instead of its original cost; then destroy attacking creature without flying.


However, if it says that if one creature is attacking, you can pay W and destroy that creature and the next part of the ability says destroy target creature, then I will assume that you can destroy two creatures.


In the same genre, the Oracle says you can play an additional land, at the same time play with top card open on deck and at the same time the option to play that top card if it is a land. Then when you play it, what if the next opened card is still a land? Shouldn't I get to also play it?


But I guess if the meaning and intend of the card is meant to be that it can only play 2 lands in a turn, so be it. Wizards make the rules, I play it 


 Edit: Another example I can use is the new Trap cards. Pitfall Trap has two parts to its abilities. First part states the condition and what needs to be paid but never states what it is going to do. The second part states the action that the instant spell is doing. So this card clearly dictates that if only 1 creature is attacking, you can pay W instead of its original cost; then destroy attacking creature without flying.


However, if it says that if one creature is attacking, you can pay W and destroy that creature and the next part of the ability says destroy target creature, then I will assume that you can destroy two creatures.




I don't know where you get the idea that the Pitfall Trap can destroy two creatures in any circumstance whatsoever. The first ability gives you an alternate way of casting the card. The second one is the effect the spell will have. The effect is to destroy one target attacking creature. Also, think about it logically: if you want to play it for it's alternate, the condition is that only one creature is attacking. Even if the spell would allow you to destroy two creatures, in this scenario there is only one legal target.



In the same genre, the Oracle says you can play an additional land, at the same time play with top card open on deck and at the same time the option to play that top card if it is a land. Then when you play it, what if the next opened card is still a land? Shouldn't I get to also play it?




The last line does not imply a modification to the number of "land drops" you have per turn. The effect would still do something useful if the first ability weren't present. You could then only play one land per turn, as normal, but you'd be allowed to play that land from an unusual location, i.e. the revealed card of the library. Compare to the card Future Sight. This card allows you to play the card that is revealed on top of the library, but you still have to abide by all the rules pertaining to play that card. So if the revealed card is a Sorcery, you have to play it in a Main Phase, for example. Likewise with the Oracle; you still have to abide by the rules for playing lands, and that means you cannot play the land on top of your library if you have already used all your land drops.

DCI L2 Judge "When nothing remains, everything is equally possible." - One With Nothing

Hendrikhaese, you're exactly right. I don't think that pitfall trap can destroy two creatures


I used a counter-argument to say that the first part and second part of the pitfall trap ability doesn't link up and the first part of it just provide an alternative way of casting the spell. Hence, there was a gap in the ability wording.


In the same consistent reasoning, the Oracle had 3 parts of the abilities. The first said you can play an additional land. The second said that you play with the top card of deck open. The third said that you can play it if it is a land.


As for your line of reasoning on the additional land, Rampant Growth doesn't say that you can play an additional land too but you can search your library for a land and put it into play.


Like I said, the rule on this card should have be phrased as


"Play with the top card of deck open


You may play an additional land from your hand or from the top card of your deck"


Anyways, wizard makes the rules and I play it. Just wanted to clarify it (although I don't agree with the reasoning to the wordings).


Thanx

Like I said, the rule on this card should have be phrased as

"Play with the top card of deck open


You may play an additional land from your hand or from the top card of your deck"



No, it shouldn't.  That wording would result in different behavior if you had Crucible of Worlds in play.


The rules allow you to play a single land during your turn.  Oracle of Mul Daya's first ability allows you to play an additional land, but doesn't change what zones you're allowed to play lands from.


The rules allow you to play land from your hand.  Oracle of Mul Daya's third ability allows you to play land from the top of your library, but doesn't change how many lands you're allowed to play.

I saw the spoiler, gasped, then thought of Djinn of Wishes, and then sighed.


If I am remembering the Djinn debates correctly, the Oracle's last ability wont allow you to play any more Lands than usual, or to play one during your opponent's turn. With just 1 Oracle on the battlefield, 2 Lands in hand and one on top of your Library, you can still only play 2 lands at most.


Something I am not sure I remember correctly, is whether you are still limited to playing the lands during your own 2 main phases while the stack is empty... can someone clarify?


Cheers


~ Tim


 

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)

If I am remembering the Djinn debates correctly, the Oracle's last ability wont allow you to play any more Lands than usual, or to play one during your opponent's turn. With just 1 Oracle on the battlefield, 2 Lands in hand and one on top of your Library, you can still only play 2 lands at most.

That is correct.

Something I am not sure I remember correctly, is whether you are still limited to playing the lands during your own 2 main phases while the stack is empty... can someone clarify?

Correct. The Oracle allows you to play one additional land, and provides a new location from which you can do so, but does not change when you can play lands at all.

 


I saw the spoiler, gasped, then thought of Djinn of Wishes, and then sighed.


If I am remembering the Djinn debates correctly, the Oracle's last ability wont allow you to play any more Lands than usual, or to play one during your opponent's turn. With just 1 Oracle on the battlefield, 2 Lands in hand and one on top of your Library, you can still only play 2 lands at most.


Something I am not sure I remember correctly, is whether you are still limited to playing the lands during your own 2 main phases while the stack is empty... can someone clarify?


Cheers


~ Tim





Thus sez comprules:



305.1. A player who has priority may play a land card from his or her hand during a main phase of his or her turn when the stack is empty. Playing a land is a special action; it doesn't use the stack (see rule 114). Rather, the player simply puts the land onto the battlefield. Since the land doesn't go on the stack, it is never a spell, and players can't respond to it with instants or activated abilities.


305.2. A player may normally play only one land during his or her turn; however, continuous effects may increase this number. If any such effects exist, the player announces which effect, or this rule, applies to each land play as it happens.


305.3. A player can't play a land, for any reason, if it isn't his or her turn. Ignore any part of an effect that instructs a player to do so. Similarly, a player can't play a land, for any reason, if that player has used all of his or her land plays for that turn. Ignore any part of an effect that instructs a player to do so.



So it is writ, so it must be.

Yeah, thanks guys - thought so. Kinda sucks that they have made another card that doesnt do what it looks like it does on the face of it... could have done with some reminder text, methinks.


(This card is going to cause headaches/arguements at Pre-releases...)


Cheers


~ Tim

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)

This card might just have an entry in the Zendikar FAQ . . .


* As you play a land, announce whether it's your normal land play for the turn or you're playing it as the result of Oracle of Mul Daya's first ability (or another such effect that exists).

* If you control more than one Oracle of Mul Daya, the effects of their first abilities are cumulative. If you control two, for example, you can play three lands on your turn.

* When playing with the top card of your library revealed, if an effect tells you to draw several cards, reveal each one before you draw it.

* If the top card of your library changes during the process of casting a spell or activating an ability, the new top card won't be revealed until the process of casting the spell or activating the ability ends (all targets are chosen, all costs are paid, and so on).

* Oracle of Mul Daya doesn't change the times when you can play a land card from the top of your library. You can play a land only during your main phase when you have priority and the stack is empty. Doing so counts as one of your land plays for the turn (either your normal one, the additional one Oracle of Mul Daya grants you, or an additional one from some other effect).

* If you play your first land of the turn from the top of your library, and the new top card is another land card, you can play that one too.

* Oracle of Mul Daya doesn't allow you to activate the activated abilities (such as cycling) of a land card on top of your library.

Del Laugel

Editing manager, Magic TCG

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