Considered Trained vs. Actually Trained

I'm making a Fallanassi character and there's some confusion.

The "White Current Adept" talent (pg. 77 JATM) states that a player can make a Use the Force check in place of a Stealth check. They are considered trained in the Stealth skill.

Now, we always assumed "you are considered trained in the 'X' skill" to mean that you're actually trained. The effect being that if we wanted we now had access to talents and feats that required training in said skill.

But if that's the case, the talents "Force Immersion" and "Immerse Another" don't make sense as they both require "White Current Adept" and trained in Stealth. If what we've been assuming as correct is correct, having "White Current Adept" is enough.

If we've been wrong all this time I have to assume that "you are considered trained in the 'X' skill" to mean your 'training' is applicable so far as the talent that supplies that benefit states explicitly. i.e. No stacking talents and feats on top of 'X' skill because you're not actually trained in it.

If someone could, if it's out there, can I be pointed in the direction of the official ruling on this?

EDIT: I located the Official FAQ Compilation and it states:

Q: If I have a talent or similar ability that states "you are considered trained in the X skill for purposes of this talent" does that mean I can qualify for feats, talents, and prestige classes as if I had been trained in that skill?
A: Yes.

If this is still accurate it seems to me that the "trained in Stealth" requirement for the above talents is a misprint. Still, it seems strage to have that misprint twice and even the bit about making a Fallanassi character states that choosing a Scout is a good route because some White Current talents require training in Stealth.
With the skill substitution talents anywhere is requires training in the substituted skill you qualify. I will note that that you do NOT get the actual +5 to the skill that training brings but for everything else, including Skill Focus, you are considered trained.
So, you're saying that I don't need to be trained in Stealth to get those talents if I have the "White Current Adept" talent? That the requirement for Stealth training is a misprint?
If I'm not mistaken, "considered trained" simply means you can use the "Trained" aspects of the skill you're considered trained in...As Steven mentioned, you don't actually get the +5 skill bonus you would get for having the skill trained...

Oh and "Considered trained" does qualify as prerequisite...
So, you're saying that I don't need to be trained in Stealth to get those talents if I have the "White Current Adept" talent? That the requirement for Stealth training is a misprint?

I do not believe so although I don't yet have the JATM. Mentioning the need for trained skill (stealth) is not a misprint but rather unnecessary but still accurate. I will caution that if Skill FOCUS (whatever) is a prereq then you actually have to have the listed Skill Focus even if you don't use it due to your Skill Substitution talent.
In general, subsittution talents make you trained in a skill, but don't give you the +5 bonus actually being trained nets you (that's why they say you are considered trained, not that you actually are trained in the skill). If you have such a talent, you can use trained-only applications of a skill, and substitute your Use the Force (or whatever) modifier for your actual rating in the skill.

What all this boils down to is that if you take the White Current Adept talent, you are considered trained in Stealth, and as such fulfill the Stealth prerequisite of other talents.

It's a redundant prerequisite that was left in there for some reason but has no actual effect.
So, just so I'm clear, if I'm rolling Use The Force, and I'm both trained and have Skill Focus in it, I'm rolling it like normal but at a -5 penalty?

Like: 5 (because I'm trained in Use The Force) + 5 (for Skill Focus) + CHA mod + half level - 5 (not trained in Stealth) = total Stealth modifier

If so, if I become trained in Stealth, does the penalty go away when I roll Use The Force for Stealth?
So, just so I'm clear, if I'm rolling Use The Force, and I'm both trained and have Skill Focus in it, I'm rolling it like normal but at a -5 penalty?

Like: 5 (because I'm trained in Use The Force) + 5 (for Skill Focus) + CHA mod + half level - 5 (not trained in Stealth) = total Stealth modifier

If so, if I become trained in Stealth, does the penalty go away when I roll Use The Force for Stealth?

You wouldn't take any penalty at all. If a talent allows you to substitute your Use the Force check for another skill, you use your full Use the Force check. It would look like this on your stat block:

Use the Force +X (may substitute for Stealth checks).

You are still considered to be trained in Stealth - you can use any aspect of the skill, trained or untrained, you are just using a a different skill to roll Stealth checks with. If you later became trained in Stealth, you could use your normal Stealth modifier, or your Use the Force modifier, whichever one was better for you.
The Putrid Dork Fallacy: "Just because a rule is written one way doesn't mean it can't be interpreted in a completely different way." RUW - Rules Unclearly Written. For more information, see RAW and RAI.
Then why is everyone saying I don't get the +5 bonus for being actually trained in the skill (which I'm not) when I still get the +5 for being trained in Use The Force?
Then why is everyone saying I don't get the +5 bonus for being actually trained in the skill (which I'm not) when I still get the +5 for being trained in Use The Force?

You don't get the +5 bonus to STEALTH you would get with proper training.

You DO get to use the +5 bonus for being trained in USE THE FORCE (and the further +5 from Skill Focus [Use the Force]).

Your Use the Force modifier replaces your Stealth modifier. That's it. No penalty, or whatever.
Okay. I just wanted to be crystal clear because I think it's really off that the Fallenassi section mentioned needing to be trained in Stealth THREE seperate times to get access to some White Current talents.

I wanted to make sure that the mistake is in the book, and not my understanding of how the mechanic works.

Thanks for all the help.
Then why is everyone saying I don't get the +5 bonus for being actually trained in the skill (which I'm not) when I still get the +5 for being trained in Use The Force?

Lets say you have DEX 16 and CHA 14 with your force user. Now assuming you are trained in UtF that would give you a +7 modifier while your untrained Stealth Check would be your DEX modifier or +3. Now you take White Current Adept so you can use your UtF modifier inplace of your Stealth modifier and are considered trained in Stealth so you can make use of trained only parts of the skill (although I can't think of any). We are saying you don't get the +5 to the actual skill although you are considered trained in it because if we look at this example then your "trained" stealth (which would be at +8 if the +5 was included) would then be higher than your UtF modifier (+7) which defeats the purpose of the substitution.
I just want it to be known that I disagree with everyone else about whether or not you would get the +5 training bonus to the ACTUAL Stealth skill.

As such my interpretation for the White Current Adept and similar talents would be...

Stealth modifier/Use the Force modifier (when used for Stealth)
+5 / +5 training due to White Current Adept talent
+5 / +5 for being 10th level
+0 / +5 for Skill Focus (use the Force)
+3 / +2 for for Dexterity/Charisma score
+13 / +17 total modifier

Now, had I not picked up Skill Focus (use the Force), it would actually be more beneficial for me to use my actual Stealth modifier rather than my Use the Force modifier--which is perfectly allowable since talents such as White Current Adept usually say "You MAY substitute your Use the Force modifier" and still train you in the skill.

A lot of people (including pretty much everyone who has posted so far) disagree with this interpretation, but I have yet to see anyone really refute it with hard evidence.
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Okay. I just wanted to be crystal clear because I think it's really off that the Fallenassi section mentioned needing to be trained in Stealth THREE seperate times to get access to some White Current talents.

I wanted to make sure that the mistake is in the book, and not my understanding of how the mechanic works.

Thanks for all the help.

Probably just extraneous text that didn't get caught in editing. Saga's only real problem is poorly or vaguely written text.
The Putrid Dork Fallacy: "Just because a rule is written one way doesn't mean it can't be interpreted in a completely different way." RUW - Rules Unclearly Written. For more information, see RAW and RAI.
Probably just extraneous text that didn't get caught in editing. Saga's only real problem is poorly or vaguely written text.

Agreed. White Current Adept should be all you need.
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