Locking Threads

I am a little trouble at the way that threads are being managed. Historically locking threads was always seen as an option of last resort. Now it is a daily occurance.

I am interested in the communities feelings on when it is appropriate to Lock Threads and when they should be left to resolve themselves. Are VCLs obligated to lock every thread they are requested to lock. Ultimately who is the judge of when a converstation is over.
I am a little trouble at the way that threads are being managed. Historically locking threads was always seen as an option of last resort. Now it is a daily occurance.

I am interested in the communities feelings on when it is appropriate to Lock Threads and when they should be left to resolve themselves. Are VCLs obligated to lock every thread they are requested to lock. Ultimately who is the judge of when a converstation is over.

FP,

careful you tread on dangerous territory...... you could get called elitist or accused of circling the wagons..... these are issues that have been brought up before and oddly enough people who say they dont care then come crucify you for saying anything......

just be careful

Hard to believe threads used to just go to page 2 and then page 3 ..... they would just die on their own.... i kind of thought that was the point of the forum.... you just never know when you wnat to discuss something again
team revan Collection: 801/801 SWM DCI Content Manager sith holonews network
I am a little trouble at the way that threads are being managed. Historically locking threads was always seen as an option of last resort. Now it is a daily occurance.

I am interested in the communities feelings on when it is appropriate to Lock Threads and when they should be left to resolve themselves. Are VCLs obligated to lock every thread they are requested to lock. Ultimately who is the judge of when a converstation is over.

No VCLs can do as they please as long as they follow the CoC. The thread in question was mine and it should not have been unlocked in the first place. Now are you going to start to question IL too?

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)

Can we get this locked before the storm starts
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FP,

careful you tread on dangerous territory...... you could get called elitist or accused of circling the wagons..... these are issues that have been brought up before and oddly enough people who say they dont care then come crucify you for saying anything......

just be careful

Hard to believe threads used to just go to page 2 and then page 3 ..... they would just die on their own.... i kind of thought that was the point of the forum.... you just never know when you wnat to discuss something again

Dean no answer is going to make everyone happy and the other side is going to let you know about it. If we keep this up we are going to break up the community and that isn't what I want. And rehasin something every couple of days is hurt us alot.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)

...Now are you going to start to question IL too?

Well, absolutely particularly if he has this (see below) amount of power over our abilities to express our ideals.

No VCLs can do as they please as long as they follow the CoC.

Well, absolutely particularly if he has this (see below) amount of power over our abilities to express our ideals.

You are lucky to be in the SW area my friend because this would never fly outside SW area. What is going to happen if Wizards really cracks down? Just so you know here is what the VCLs can do quoted from the VCL forum:

The VCL program is distinct from the Tier 1 Customer Support program in that the VCL program aids the Wizards Community team in providing editorial management on Gleemax and the Forums while Tier 1 Customer Support aids Wizards Customer Service in providing conduct management on the Forums.

Editorial management guides the community in having high quality, on-topic discussions throughout the forums. Conduct management focuses on keeping those discussions in line with the guidelines in Wizards’ Code of Conduct.

Specifically this means that:
• VCLs may decide that a new thread needs to be created;
• VCLs may decide who can participate in a given thread;
• VCLs may decide that a comment within a thread needs to be moved to a different thread;
• VCLs may decide that a thread should be closed;
• VLCs may never remove or edit a comment or a thread.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)

Historically locking threads was always seen as an option of last resort. Now it is a daily occurance.

When the thread originator requested a thread to be locked, it's almost always been locked nigh immediately in the past.

It's only an issue now because a certain subset of the community is being shirty with the VCLs.

Feel free to start up whatever subset of the conversation you think is still important and still in need of discussion in a new thread. Then, you'll be the only person who can make an OP-request to close the thread.

FP,

And why on earth would anyone think one particular side of the debate was being unreasonable? I just totally don't understand it ...
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
Specifically this means that:

• VCLs may decide who can participate in a given thread;

Wow, I didn't know this one. I am amazed that WotC would give a volunteer that much power.
You are lucky to be in the SW area my friend because this would never fly outside SW area. What is going to happen if Wizards really cracks down? Just so you know here is what the VCLs can do quoted from the VCL forum:

Wrong thread.

Here is the updated handbook


And here is the relevant part:

[indent]The VCL program is distinct from the Tier 1 Customer Support program in that the VCL program aids the Wizards Community team in providing editorial management on the Forums while Tier 1 Customer Support aids Wizards Customer Service in providing conduct management on the Forums.

Editorial management guides the community in having high quality, on-topic discussions throughout the forums. Conduct management focuses on keeping those discussions in line with the guidelines in Wizards’ Code of Conduct.
Specifically this means that:

• VCLs may decide that a new thread needs to be created;
• VCLs may decide that a comment within a thread needs to be moved to a different thread;
• VCLs may decide that a thread should be closed;
• VCLs may never remove or edit a comment or a thread;
[/indent]
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
Wrong thread.

Here is the updated handbook


And here is the relevant part:

[indent]The VCL program is distinct from the Tier 1 Customer Support program in that the VCL program aids the Wizards Community team in providing editorial management on the Forums while Tier 1 Customer Support aids Wizards Customer Service in providing conduct management on the Forums.

Editorial management guides the community in having high quality, on-topic discussions throughout the forums. Conduct management focuses on keeping those discussions in line with the guidelines in Wizards’ Code of Conduct.
Specifically this means that:

• VCLs may decide that a new thread needs to be created;
• VCLs may decide that a comment within a thread needs to be moved to a different thread;
• VCLs may decide that a thread should be closed;
• VCLs may never remove or edit a comment or a thread;
[/indent]

Thanks Mud. I didn't know it was updated. Now to fix the FAQ.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)

Here is the forum that all the most recent documentation is in.
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
Well, I'll apologize for my remarks to Darth Solo in the Request thread, as I didn't realize he had started the topic in question.

(For some reason, I had read "an original poster" and thought it meant that he was ONE of the original people having the discussion, not the one who started it. :embarrass )
you know it is kind of funny though.... i forget who it was that said there was no identifiable number to the number of people no longer using these forums....

I can give you a number.... about 50.... that is the number of new members since this whole thing has started on Gamers.com we dont normally experience that kind of growth in a few days....

well 2 exceptions that chat with Rob and Sarah

and the time we got all the FU stats early from Europe.......

So it is having some sort of effect.
team revan Collection: 801/801 SWM DCI Content Manager sith holonews network
Hi, I had to delete some posts that violated the Code of Conduct

You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.
you know it is kind of funny though.... i forget who it was that said there was no identifiable number to the number of people no longer using these forums....

I can give you a number.... about 50.... that is the number of new members since this whole thing has started on Gamers.com we dont normally experience that kind of growth in a few days....

well 2 exceptions that chat with Rob and Sarah

and the time we got all the FU stats early from Europe.......

So it is having some sort of effect.

Dean why do you have non SWMs forums on your site? Clearly your site is labeled SWM to it is just suppose to be about minis. The same is true here. Wy can't some members except change. Is having another forum really that bad. I know moving thread nobody likes it. It isn't hard to post in the right forum. The whole Trapped thing is because SW area has forgot the rules. It would be like one of your kids no having a parent around and then years later you want to know why he is unruley. If Trapped broke the CoC he needs to go but calling for a public "Hanging" is not the way to go. The last weeks have truely sadden me on both sides.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)

I have not ever had a problem with the off topic forum.... you have never heard that from me.

My forums are clear about where to post about what.... something that a lot of people love about it. you want to post a 200 point squad you go to the 200 point squad critique area.

Wizards has never adopted that policy until now. Which is fine with me. But my problems with Trapped have nothing to do with that.

Mine has been the way he does things and how he goes about them.

1. He posts in threads.... then when he thinks it is over.. he has them closed. he has stated as much.

2. He has taken peoples comments out of context whether via PM or post and used them to make a member look foolish or bait them into a flaming post.

3. he has had stickied threads that have been up for a long time taken down without asking anyone why they were stickied in the first place. Then in turn he has to go back make them stickied again.

Again.... these are my issues.

I will again state to Lead an office, troops, or community you need to become part of it and learn how it functions. While SWM may be similar to the RPG boards they are not the same. The assumption that they would be is short sited at best. Leadership cannot be given to a person... it must be earned... you can be put in the position of leader but that does not make you one. Can you become one? Sure.... but that is the job of the person put in the position of leadership to learn it. i dont like the backhanded things that have been done. i dont like the fact that when people approached him via PM about things he made them public.

It is unfortunate this has blown into a community war over this. It is unfortunate to find out there are two sides to this. But I am not going to change my mind. If that leads to me being flamed or called elitist well ok. I have been called a lot of things in the last few months on this board that have not been so nice.

I really dont think this thing over Trapped is all everyone thinks it is. I think there have been some raw feelings on these boards for a while now. i think this is more of a symptom than the actual disease. But hey that is just my opinion. i think some people got bent out of shape when people upset over the Pax deal. i think that at that time there was a large group of competitive players upset they were given 30 days notice of championship.... i think the players in the Seattle area kind of defended their turf... I think somewhere in between there were a bunch of people that said they had no opinion on the subject (at least that is what they said) that just enjoyed the oppritunity to get into a fight. I think we have alot of that here also. I think it has continued. I don't some much think the drama is coming from the people with an issue with Trapped and i dont think it is totally Trapped.... At this point I think most of the problem is the people that again say they are sitting on the fence but want to be int he fight. Such is the nature of a community board.

maybe that is good or maybe it is bad... but that is what comes with a free forum.... this too will blow over for about 2-3 months and my guess is there will be another spark to set off another explosion

just some thoughts for ya Solo..... doesnt mean they even make sense but there they are.
team revan Collection: 801/801 SWM DCI Content Manager sith holonews network
I'm on a few other forums and the biggest complaint in most places is people(noobs) not using the search function and starting a thread that already exists...

Here it seems that once a thread has disappeared from the front page then its ok to start a new thread...It really clutters up the place...locking threads for no good reason particularly when you can edit out irrelevant stuff seems silly...
2. He has taken peoples comments out of context whether via PM or post and used them to make a member look foolish or bait them into a flaming post.

Welcome to the internet...:D It takes some patience and consideration of what and how you type/say something before hitting the "submit reply" button..to avoid that kinda thing...
I have not ever had a problem with the off topic forum.... you have never heard that from me.

My forums are clear about where to post about what.... something that a lot of people love about it. you want to post a 200 point squad you go to the 200 point squad critique area.

Wizards has never adopted that policy until now. Which is fine with me. But my problems with Trapped have nothing to do with that.

Mine has been the way he does things and how he goes about them.

1. He posts in threads.... then when he thinks it is over.. he has them closed. he has stated as much.

2. He has taken peoples comments out of context whether via PM or post and used them to make a member look foolish or bait them into a flaming post.

3. he has had stickied threads that have been up for a long time taken down without asking anyone why they were stickied in the first place. Then in turn he has to go back make them stickied again.

Again.... these are my issues.

I will again state to Lead an office, troops, or community you need to become part of it and learn how it functions. While SWM may be similar to the RPG boards they are not the same. The assumption that they would be is short sited at best. Leadership cannot be given to a person... it must be earned... you can be put in the position of leader but that does not make you one. Can you become one? Sure.... but that is the job of the person put in the position of leadership to learn it. i dont like the backhanded things that have been done. i dont like the fact that when people approached him via PM about things he made them public.

It is unfortunate this has blown into a community war over this. It is unfortunate to find out there are two sides to this. But I am not going to change my mind. If that leads to me being flamed or called elitist well ok. I have been called a lot of things in the last few months on this board that have not been so nice.

I really dont think this thing over Trapped is all everyone thinks it is. I think there have been some raw feelings on these boards for a while now. i think this is more of a symptom than the actual disease. But hey that is just my opinion. i think some people got bent out of shape when people upset over the Pax deal. i think that at that time there was a large group of competitive players upset they were given 30 days notice of championship.... i think the players in the Seattle area kind of defended their turf... I think somewhere in between there were a bunch of people that said they had no opinion on the subject (at least that is what they said) that just enjoyed the oppritunity to get into a fight. I think we have alot of that here also. I think it has continued. I don't some much think the drama is coming from the people with an issue with Trapped and i dont think it is totally Trapped.... At this point I think most of the problem is the people that again say they are sitting on the fence but want to be int he fight. Such is the nature of a community board.

maybe that is good or maybe it is bad... but that is what comes with a free forum.... this too will blow over for about 2-3 months and my guess is there will be another spark to set off another explosion

just some thoughts for ya Solo..... doesnt mean they even make sense but there they are.

I don't want you, Bill, or any one to lose their opinion. Your right about the anti Wizards stuff but then again when you to try to get Wizards more involved in the community at the same time you don't. You ever heard of beating a dead bush? Thread after thread after thread the same people the same remarks. Someone new chimes in the are labeled. If the veteran posters can control a topic by not posting or posting once or stick to one thread (I know it has been hard to do the last with locks and deletes). No one is perfect. But rehashing the same issue every week has got to stop.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)

You ever heard of beating a dead bush?

... No? ...

;)
Patryn of Elvenshae Want a character sheet for your starship? Download! Discuss!
I don't want you, Bill, or any one to lose their opinion. Your right about the anti Wizards stuff but then again when you to try to get Wizards more involved in the community at the same time you don't. You ever heard of beating a dead bush? Thread after thread after thread the same people the same remarks. Someone new chimes in the are labeled. If the veteran posters can control a topic by not posting or posting once or stick to one thread (I know it has been hard to do the last with locks and deletes). No one is perfect. But rehashing the same issue every week has got to stop.

Oddly enough when people wanted to get in contact with Wizards... it was people that work on the game and the people in DCI.....

I don't saying we wanted wizos more involved means we wanted Trapped.... because no offense to him.... he is a member here with some mod powers. i would not call that increased Wizards presence... i would call it a guy with some misplaced ideas of what to do with his mod powers.

We got what we wanted game wise from wizos.... we have more involvement in more ways that i am allowed to comment on at this time. We have Q&A's with Rob and sarah.... a live chat with them on Gamers.... with an agreement that they will do another one.

That is the involvement we wanted.... not Trapped
team revan Collection: 801/801 SWM DCI Content Manager sith holonews network
Oddly enough when people wanted to get in contact with Wizards... it was people that work on the game and the people in DCI.....

I don't saying we wanted wizos more involved means we wanted Trapped.... because no offense to him.... he is a member here with some mod powers. i would not call that increased Wizards presence... i would call it a guy with some misplaced ideas of what to do with his mod powers.

We got what we wanted game wise from wizos.... we have more involvement in more ways that i am allowed to comment on at this time. We have Q&A's with Rob and sarah.... a live chat with them on Gamers.... with an agreement that they will do another one.

That is the involvement we wanted.... not Trapped

if i may make an observation about the involvement of the Wizos (now Orcs) some of the shouting has called for the old way being area specif Wizos,when its clear that CM is not going to go back it and some users do not want to hear that.
EDIT: I have one question did anyone ask them about anything having to do with the SSB players during those Q&As?

ThorvaldHafgrimsson wrote:
Life is full of choices. Sometimes you make the good ones, and sometimes you have to kill all the witnesses.
NastasiaLorn; wrote:
But then you have to pay the liability insurance.
A note about character and world creation
Show
Character and world creation are a form of expression. The point is that some people don't have much to say...
57949688 wrote:
Why doesnt anyone ever sig my qoutes!?
On the subject of who post in the Off-Topic Tavern:
57131438 wrote:
most of them are bored, immature adults.
Offical troller of the House of Trolls
Thread after thread after thread the same people the same remarks.

Hello pot, I'm kettle....

I love how the "Locking Threads" thread has turned into SWMGamer.com bashing now.

*shakes head*
Here is a link to the Orphans list I maintain: http://www.desmoinesfanforce.net/Orphans.htm Life-sized Tile Wars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAXn5ZwopPc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o64M5_J1JHs Geoncon08: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srArBLLHYBQ
if i may make an observation about the involvement of the Wizos (now Orcs) some of the shouting has called for the old way being area specif Wizos,when its clear that CM is not going to go back it and some users do not want to hear that.
EDIT: I have one question did anyone ask them about anything having to do with the SSB players during those Q&As?

ive been staying out of these (like I think more should)

I am only commenting on the Question. It was brought up at some point. I dont know what was actually said though
ive been staying out of these (like I think more should)

I am only commenting on the Question. It was brought up at some point. I dont know what was actually said though

okay

ThorvaldHafgrimsson wrote:
Life is full of choices. Sometimes you make the good ones, and sometimes you have to kill all the witnesses.
NastasiaLorn; wrote:
But then you have to pay the liability insurance.
A note about character and world creation
Show
Character and world creation are a form of expression. The point is that some people don't have much to say...
57949688 wrote:
Why doesnt anyone ever sig my qoutes!?
On the subject of who post in the Off-Topic Tavern:
57131438 wrote:
most of them are bored, immature adults.
Offical troller of the House of Trolls
Hello pot, I'm kettle....

I love how the "Locking Threads" thread has turned into SWMGamer.com bashing now.

Who's bashing Gamers??
Wow this just won't stop, I hope people near the top realize that this is just an unstoppable topic. I don't think Mike Vic, Dog fighter got this much run.

It just goes from one place to another, and it seems to be unending.

And in the 5 or 6 other threads on this topic I've pretty much said my piece, and don't have much more to say other than I haven't been happy with whats been happening, and am going to wait and see from here. But I have no doubt I'll be at gamers a bit more, to see if people are actually talking minis over there.
Best gaming community in the world. My collection is proof. 2009 SWM RAC member 795 Club member Over 75 Good trades, Zero Negatives You can check out my squads at Bloomilk, or share in more conversations at SWMGAMERS "There is always a choice..."
Hello pot, I'm kettle....

I love how the "Locking Threads" thread has turned into SWMGamer.com bashing now.

*shakes head*

Um, what? What the heck? Nobody bashed on Gamers... at all.

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGS1AL.png) Sig by zpikduM.

I would never bash Gamers because I respect Dean. I don't know where bashing Gamers came from.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)

I would never bash Gamers because I respect Dean. I don't know where bashing Gamers came from.

Dean why do you have non SWMs forums on your site? Clearly your site is labeled SWM to it is just suppose to be about minis.

I took that as derogatory towards his site, given your recent posts. Apparently you were just trying to make a point.
Here is a link to the Orphans list I maintain: http://www.desmoinesfanforce.net/Orphans.htm Life-sized Tile Wars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAXn5ZwopPc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o64M5_J1JHs Geoncon08: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srArBLLHYBQ
I took that as derogatory towards his site, given your recent posts.

You don't think Dean would say something if I did? I was asking Dean a question to make a point and he answered as I thought he would. I still don't see why having an off topic forum will hurt. All the issues are getting twisted around each other.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)

you know what i think should be done?

i think wizards needs to "crash" for about a week. it would give everyone the time they need to cool off. then we can get back to talking about how this person is an elitest, or how we don't need another vader/luke/han, or how lightsaber should be changed, or why older hans have FPs, or why luke JM is one of the worst pieces in the game, or...well you get the point.
you know what i think should be done?

i think wizards needs to "crash" for about a week. it would give everyone the time they need to cool off. then we can get back to talking about how this person is an elitest, or how we don't need another vader/luke/han, or how lightsaber should be changed, or why older hans have FPs, or why luke JM is one of the worst pieces in the game, or...well you get the point.

Sounds good to me.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)

Although I'm not against the OT forum, I don't think it was necessary. General was more general and everything that did not say "Star Wars Minis" was not shipped somewhere else. The community business forum was unheard of becase we managed ourselves. It worked. Then someone decided everything was in the wrong place and doomed to fail ultimately because of a couple post long spit. Now I'm not sure which of my posts I'll be avble to see a day later. I love constructive criticism, but due to heavy handed moderation, it never gets heard. Thank you for listening.

EDIT: Has little to do with current discussion, but I wanted to get my post IBN
IBN---- is that?

IN BEFORE NUKE
team revan Collection: 801/801 SWM DCI Content Manager sith holonews network
Although I'm not against the OT forum, I don't think it was necessary. General was more general and everything that did not say "Star Wars Minis" was not shipped somewhere else. The community business forum was unheard of becase we managed ourselves. It worked. Then someone decided everything was in the wrong place and doomed to fail ultimately because of a couple post long spit. Now I'm not sure which of my posts I'll be avble to see a day later. I love constructive criticism, but due to heavy handed moderation, it never gets heard. Thank you for listening.

EDIT: Has little to do with current discussion, but I wanted to get my post IBN

As Dean said there hasn't been peace here since a month before Gen Con and it has slowly gotten worse. There is no right/wrong and everyone is at fault that post here to some degree. Even me. But demand and arguements that go no where aren't going to fix anything.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)

But hey that is just my opinion. i think some people got bent out of shape when people upset over the Pax deal. i think that at that time there was a large group of competitive players upset they were given 30 days notice of championship.... i think the players in the Seattle area kind of defended their turf... I think somewhere in between there were a bunch of people that said they had no opinion on the subject (at least that is what they said) that just enjoyed the oppritunity to get into a fight. I think we have alot of that here also. I think it has continued.

can you elaborate on this over in the history lesson thread,so that we don't hijack this one pleaser?

ThorvaldHafgrimsson wrote:
Life is full of choices. Sometimes you make the good ones, and sometimes you have to kill all the witnesses.
NastasiaLorn; wrote:
But then you have to pay the liability insurance.
A note about character and world creation
Show
Character and world creation are a form of expression. The point is that some people don't have much to say...
57949688 wrote:
Why doesnt anyone ever sig my qoutes!?
On the subject of who post in the Off-Topic Tavern:
57131438 wrote:
most of them are bored, immature adults.
Offical troller of the House of Trolls
As Dean said there hasn't been peace here since a month before Gen Con and it has slowly gotten worse. There is no right/wrong and everyone is at fault that post here to some degree. Even me. But demand and arguements that go no where aren't going to fix anything.

Well DS,

I think that we on the same coin... but just on different sides of it. The thing is my comments about edge around here was talking about the community on the whole.

Now with this TS thing.... I definately think there is a right and a wrong in this.

But the community's reaction to it.... that is the raw edge I am talking about. The community (I am talking about kind of the neutral center and not the polarized edges) has been edgy since that episode. What i am finding is since then there is less neutral and the more members becoming polarized... and probably will continue to do so.... even after this has ended.... it is just the growing pains of any family type atmosphere.


@Trapped..... no I wont go post about it in the history thread for two reasons.

1. I have no clue where that thread is....

2. Posting what happened 6 months ago in the forum would certainly start another fight as you would be reading my version... then someone would want to give you their insights and then someone would disagree.... then the whole thing becomes a flame war. i thought my comments in the Elitism thread would had clued you in about that. Now if you would like to PM me and ask some questions i will be glad to give a brief history (without trying to be on a side of the issue)
team revan Collection: 801/801 SWM DCI Content Manager sith holonews network
Well DS,

I think that we on the same coin... but just on different sides of it. The thing is my comments about edge around here was talking about the community on the whole.

Now with this TS thing.... I definately think there is a right and a wrong in this.

But the community's reaction to it.... that is the raw edge I am talking about. The community (I am talking about kind of the neutral center and not the polarized edges) has been edgy since that episode. What i am finding is since then there is less neutral and the more members becoming polarized... and probably will continue to do so.... even after this has ended.... it is just the growing pains of any family type atmosphere.


@Trapped..... no I wont go post about it in the history thread for two reasons.

1. I have no clue where that thread is....

2. Posting what happened 6 months ago in the forum would certainly start another fight as you would be reading my version... then someone would want to give you their insights and then someone would disagree.... then the whole thing becomes a flame war. i thought my comments in the Elitism thread would had clued you in about that. Now if you would like to PM me and ask some questions i will be glad to give a brief history (without trying to be on a side of the issue)

ok Dean. I respect that. I'm signing off for the night. This thread has shown me 2 things. We all judge quickly and harshly and any statement can be turned around and used against you.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)

Here's my thing on it. If a post is closed....for no given reason, and if the post has not violated any CoC. You have the right to contact wizards and file a complaint. The adressed issue *should* be looked and and hopefully the post re-opened.

If wizards is really giving martial law to volunteers then im signing up....