4e please keep printing them

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If you want them to keep printing 4th ED stuff please post up here.

 

I like the 4E system ( i know not everyone does) but if we can get enough people saying they still want it maybe they will keep printing it.

 

It is impossible to find a store that has an Adventurers Vault (and others)  in stock.

 

I know I can go Ebay or Amazon, but I started playing in a game shop and I like to support gaming shops.

 

 

   TYVM
           

 

I really dislike D&D Next. I have no intentions of buying it at all. I started D&D in 2nd ed, DM'ed throughout 3rd and 3.5 and I fell in love with 4e as a system. That said, WOTC quality of products went straight down as time went on with 4e. It was obvious they cared about the product series less and less. Books remained at a premium cost but got thiner and thiner and in some cases, were just lazy (4e book of vile darkness is a 30 dollar PAPPERBACK in a cardfolder folder!). 

 

That said I cant forsee them continuing their 4e product line. They have done so little with it for months (I.e nothing) that they have killed their own customer base. There is nothing new for 4e in D&D insider for months now. Whats the reasont to subscribe other than the character builder? Is it truely worth about 100 bucks a year just for that one feature? 

 

I wish they would not kill 4e, but at this point 4e development is more or less dead. What I would love is for them to make 4e an open gaming license so companies with actual interest can pick up the reigns. 

I don't believe books got smaller. Most were always the standard 160-pages. Which was pretty thin, but what they were sized at the start of the edition. 

(The Book of Vile Darkness was the exception, but I think they had planned that as a boxed set before deciding a box was too expensive.)

 

If Amazon still has a book available that means their distributor still has some. And since there's really only one distributor, that means your game store could order one if they wanted. But every book they order and put on shelves is a book they bought and spent money on. And they're only going to order products they think will sell. They're not going to spend their profits ordering books just to display them on shelves. 

 

Printing also isn't cheap. A new print run requires at least 10,000 copies. Potentially more to make money. If a product isn't going to move 10,000 copies then WotC is just wasting money. 

5 Minute WorkdayMy Webcomic Updated Tue & Thur

The compilation of my Worldbuilding blog series is now available: 

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They are only wasting money if no one buys them, heck they keep reprinting older books and no one at my shop wants them, it's like reprinting Wayne gretzky rookie cards and expecting people will snap them up.

Originals are collectible because they are originals!

They can keep making DND NExt but why not support 4e also!

 

C'mon people , post up if you want them to keep printing them, apparently we need 10,000 people to say yes.

 

At minimum they should keep printing the core rule books (like the essentials and PHBs).  That was the problem with all the older editions, you couldn't get the books anymore and so to get new players you had to go to the latest edition so they could buy the books.  With technology what it is, make it so you can buy the PDF, at least.

I'd settle for a compilation of whatever finished/mostly finished material they have lying aorund form all the books that got bumped for essentials. 

 

But yes, keeping the 4e core books in circulation would be amazing.

 
 

I recently introduced my group to 4E after playing Pathfinder and to our surprise, we're all preferring 4E so I for one would rather not see it disappear completely. Two of us have played through all editions. Two of us are younglings who enjoy D&D but only play what we (the older two) subject them to. And one of us is just content to play. I really resisted 4E when it first came out. I liked 3.5... hence the adoption of Pathfinder... and although I bought a bunch of 4E stuff (and later stuff from the Essentials line), I've since eBayed them. Now, I'm having trouble getting... for example... the Essentials Starter Set for what I originally paid for it. At eBay (UK) and Amazon (UK), the cost of the Essentials Starter Set is ludicrously expensive... and I'd rather not have to import it from the States or rely totally on pdfs. I guess I'm old-fashioned but I like to have the physical book. It's just like me to start playing a game that is about to be superceded... sigh!

Notice today that you can get the Rules Compendium, MM2 and MM3 in pdf now at www.dndclassics.com.  Don't know how long that will last.  When it first went up the Adventurer's Vault (maybe both) was available, but disappeared shortly after.

With these new addition though, I hav hope that much of the 4e content will be released on PDF.  

TjD

Of course! I hope they keep printing 4E stuff, and I also hope they keep available CB and AV for 4E users. 
I spend my money on DDI just for that reason.
 

geoharpst wrote:

At minimum they should keep printing the core rule books (like the essentials and PHBs).  That was the problem with all the older editions, you couldn't get the books anymore and so to get new players you had to go to the latest edition so they could buy the books.  With technology what it is, make it so you can buy the PDF, at least.

 

This +1.

 

I Am A: Neutral Good Human Druid (5th Level)

Ability Scores:
Strength-16
Dexterity-13
Constitution-17
Intelligence-15
Wisdom-16
Charisma-14

Alignment:
Neutral Good A neutral good character does the best that a good person can do. He is devoted to helping others. He works with kings and magistrates but does not feel beholden to them. Neutral good is the best alignment you can be because it means doing what is good without bias for or against order. However, neutral good can be a dangerous alignment when it advances mediocrity by limiting the actions of the truly capable.

Race:
Humans are the most adaptable of the common races. Short generations and a penchant for migration and conquest have made them physically diverse as well. Humans are often unorthodox in their dress, sporting unusual hairstyles, fanciful clothes, tattoos, and the like.

Class:
Druids gain power not by ruling nature but by being at one with it. They hate the unnatural, including aberrations or undead, and destroy them where possible. Druids receive divine spells from nature, not the gods, and can gain an array of powers as they gain experience, including the ability to take the shapes of animals. The weapons and armor of a druid are restricted by their traditional oaths, not simply training. A druid's Wisdom score should be high, as this determines the maximum spell level that they can cast.

Find out What Kind of Dungeons and Dragons Character Would You Be?, courtesy of Easydamus (e-mail)

geoharpst wrote:

At minimum they should keep printing the core rule books (like the essentials and PHBs).  That was the problem with all the older editions, you couldn't get the books anymore and so to get new players you had to go to the latest edition so they could buy the books.  With technology what it is, make it so you can buy the PDF, at least.

Hopefully as Print on Demand technology increases it will become cheaper and more viable to print classic books whenever. So you can pick the book of your choice. 

 

However, this will likely be online only. You cannot expect stores to carry six or seven variants of D&D at all times. 

And I can see it being softcover for price reasons. 

5 Minute WorkdayMy Webcomic Updated Tue & Thur

The compilation of my Worldbuilding blog series is now available: 

Jester David's How-To Guide to Fantasy Worldbuilding.

It would be nice to have the DDI tools up and running together with the option of getting pdf or printed (through print-on-demand) versions of 4e from dndclassics.com

Personally that is what I really like about the new adventures Murder in Baldur's Gate and the Legacy of the Silver Shard, I can run them in any edition I want to even 2nd edition with just a little work on my part.  I hope they keep this up.

 

I believe that the rules for all the editions should be accessable in pdf format given the current technology and costs.  Search enabled pdf's allow players and DMs alike to find information faster.  You can store all your rule books on a Kindle Fire and considerably lighten the load you are carrying.  What would be cool is if there was a way local gaming stores could sell pdf''s versions of the rule books from their webpages so we could support our local store & get the rule books we want or need.  

 

I too believe that supporting your local gaming store is important.  If you cannot find the 4th edition rule books there that you want you could buy the new adventure modules that are edition neutral and source books, dice, minatures, and other accessories there.  

I'm another D&D fan from way back (Basic, Advanced, 3.0, 3.5 & 4.0) who fell in love with 4th Edition.  I agree with supporting local game stores but I recently had to go to Amazon when they didn't carry some products I was looking for. 

 

A more fundemental question than getting WotC to keep printing 4E products is whether they will keep running the DDI tools web site.  It seems like easy income to me but considering how letting 3.5 live resulted in pathfinder, they may go for the coup de gras.  My observation on this forum, however, is that 5th Edition is trying to appeal to a group that has strong opinions about the rules and isn't afraid to not buy new versions of them.

I see no reason why they cant sell both Next AND 4e. They are different styles, and both have merit. It really comes down to the people you play with. Why try to force everyone into one RPG style? Just make both available. No matter what you do, if you only pick one style, there are going to be people yearning for the other and there will be a company to cover it. Might as well do it yourself.

 

 

I support this post. WotC tries to cover the fact that there's a lot of people who still love and play 4e and WILL NOT make the change to 5e.

Another vote to keep 4e in print.

 

As others have said, it's all available on E-Bay and Amazon, but I prefer to support the local store where I play.

 

And again, as I and others keep pointing out... 4e is sufficiently different from any other RPG system available that there's no reason not to continue at least a low level of support.

 

What type?

 

Well assuming that Dungeon and Dragon e-zines come back, I could see perhaps 10 to 25 percent of their content being devoted to 'retro' systems - ADnD, 3.5, 4e, even 2nd Ed.

 

We liked the multi-platform support featured in Baldur's Gate and Crystal Shard, so that type of thing could contine with future releases of 'canned adventures'.

 

I just don't see any hope that Next is going to be the platform that re-unites the RPG world.

3.5 is alive and well... but now it's called Pathfinder and Paizo makes the bucks.

The same will happen to 4e... Somebody is going to support the fanbase - why not WotC?

 

I can see three versions of D&D being supported by WotC.

Clean up 3.5 and try to take back the 'ultimate d20 D&D' crown.

Continue to support 4e - for those of us who like the tactical skirmish minatures aspect of the game.

Let Next be the 'Retro' platform for us old timers, who want a more free-form, narrative, theater of the mind, style of game.

 

Ford does Trucks, Sports Cars and SUV's... not everyone wants or needs the same vehicle... whether that's a mode of transportation or an RPG.

I would have loyally bought any 4th edition books, and kept subscribing to D&D Insider, for the rest of my life. Even after they announced they were working on a new iteration, I signed up for the playtests, and followed the 5th editions development for a while. I didn't like what I saw as much as 4th, but it reminded me of those old Baldur's Gate games for the PC, so it still had a decent enough Dungeons & Dragons flavor. I would have spent money on it probably.... BUT THEN.... Neverwinter Online came out. It was the worst experience in online gaming I have ever had, and broke all of the promises made in advertising. The combat system pigeon-holed everyone into cookie cutter builds so you never even got to choose your own spells or exploits to make you different from every other member of your class at your level. When I asked on the forums why we were forced to play a certain build instead of getting to create our own a community moderator responded saying it was because the game was based on 4th edition. Of course, you all know that's bologna, and that 4e had a very in-depth character creation system with tons of exploits/spells to choose from. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, here's a link to a more in-depth thread regarding my complaints:

 

http://community.wizards.com/forum/third-party-and-officially-licensed-products/threads/3945281

 

I will be boycotting the D&D brand until Wizards does something about Neverwinter Online, and formally apologizes for letting Perfect World soil the reputation of Dungeons & Dragons. I used to tell people with pride that I was a Dungeon Master. Now I'd be ashamed if someone saw the dozens of D&D books sitting on my shelf. With the new iteration, and cash-grab lockbox MMO, I'm convinced that the Dungeons and Dragons brand has fallen into the pockets of businessmen looking to make a quick buck, rather than D&D players like us who simply have a love and passion for the game. The decision to make a new iteration was a poor one in my opinion, it really bummed me out. Neverwinter Online though.. That made Wizards lose me as a customer. I don't even buy Magic the Gathering cards anymore. 

wu.hsin88 wrote:

I would have loyally bought any 4th edition books, and kept subscribing to D&D Insider, for the rest of my life. Even after they announced they were working on a new iteration, I signed up for the playtests, and followed the 5th editions development for a while. I didn't like what I saw as much as 4th, but it reminded me of those old Baldur's Gate games for the PC, so it still had a decent enough Dungeons & Dragons flavor. I would have spent money on it probably.... BUT THEN.... Neverwinter Online came out. It was the worst experience in online gaming I have ever had, and broke all of the promises made in advertising. The combat system pigeon-holed everyone into cookie cutter builds so you never even got to choose your own spells or exploits to make you different from every other member of your class at your level. When I asked on the forums why we were forced to play a certain build instead of getting to create our own a community moderator responded saying it was because the game was based on 4th edition. Of course, you all know that's bologna, and that 4e had a very in-depth character creation system with tons of exploits/spells to choose from. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, here's a link to a more in-depth thread regarding my complaints:

 

http://community.wizards.com/forum/third-party-and-officially-licensed-products/threads/3945281

 

I will be boycotting the D&D brand until Wizards does something about Neverwinter Online, and formally apologizes for letting Perfect World soil the reputation of Dungeons & Dragons. I used to tell people with pride that I was a Dungeon Master. Now I'd be ashamed if someone saw the dozens of D&D books sitting on my shelf. With the new iteration, and cash-grab lockbox MMO, I'm convinced that the Dungeons and Dragons brand has fallen into the pockets of businessmen looking to make a quick buck, rather than D&D players like us who simply have a love and passion for the game. The decision to make a new iteration was a poor one in my opinion, it really bummed me out. Neverwinter Online though.. That made Wizards lose me as a customer. I don't even buy Magic the Gathering cards anymore. 

A number of things about your boycot make no sense:

 

1) You are preventing yourself from continuing to enjoy something that you personally enjoy, because something exists which you do not - that's like my saying I will absolutely never eat again because blueberries taste awful to me.

 

2) Perfect World is not as at fault as you expect they are - play any of their other games (even older titles), and in my experience, you will see much better put together games. The case with Neverwinter is that the company which WotC actually licensed the creation of the game was purchased by Perfect World, who then did not scrap and re-do the entire game because that it is just genuinely crazy to do.

 

3) Companies exist because someone has said "hey, we could sell this!" and they persist only if that person was right - that you are surprised that a company would do something seemingly motivated by profit, such as license a video game or create a new edition of a table-top game to try and boost sales, is completely ridiculous.

 

4) That you think a "bad" videogame impacts the reputation of Dungeons & Dragons, rather than only impacting the reputation of that one videogame and the company that produced it (Cryptic Studios) or released it (Perfect World), is bonkers.

 

Opinion, being subjective as it is, actually happens to have numerous folks out there who enjoy Neverwinter Online, and some are even getting into table-top D&D because of it... and that is very, very far from any "ruined reputation" or justification for your overly dramatic boycott response.

ATTENTION:  If while reading my post you find yourself thinking "Either this guy is being sarcastic, or he is an idiot," do please assume that I am an idiot. It makes reading your replies more entertaining. If, however, you find yourself hoping that I am not being even remotely serious then you are very likely correct as I find irreverence and being ridiculous to be relaxing.

4e has my vote

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

 

wu.hsin88 wrote:

I would have loyally bought any 4th edition books, and kept subscribing to D&D Insider, for the rest of my life. Even after they announced they were working on a new iteration, I signed up for the playtests, and followed the 5th editions development for a while. I didn't like what I saw as much as 4th, but it reminded me of those old Baldur's Gate games for the PC, so it still had a decent enough Dungeons & Dragons flavor. I would have spent money on it probably.... BUT THEN.... Neverwinter Online came out. It was the worst experience in online gaming I have ever had, and broke all of the promises made in advertising. The combat system pigeon-holed everyone into cookie cutter builds so you never even got to choose your own spells or exploits to make you different from every other member of your class at your level. When I asked on the forums why we were forced to play a certain build instead of getting to create our own a community moderator responded saying it was because the game was based on 4th edition. Of course, you all know that's bologna, and that 4e had a very in-depth character creation system with tons of exploits/spells to choose from. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, here's a link to a more in-depth thread regarding my complaints:

 

http://community.wizards.com/forum/third-party-and-officially-licensed-products/threads/3945281

 

I will be boycotting the D&D brand until Wizards does something about Neverwinter Online, and formally apologizes for letting Perfect World soil the reputation of Dungeons & Dragons. I used to tell people with pride that I was a Dungeon Master. Now I'd be ashamed if someone saw the dozens of D&D books sitting on my shelf. With the new iteration, and cash-grab lockbox MMO, I'm convinced that the Dungeons and Dragons brand has fallen into the pockets of businessmen looking to make a quick buck, rather than D&D players like us who simply have a love and passion for the game. The decision to make a new iteration was a poor one in my opinion, it really bummed me out. Neverwinter Online though.. That made Wizards lose me as a customer. I don't even buy Magic the Gathering cards anymore.

 

A number of things about your boycot make no sense:

 

1) You are preventing yourself from continuing to enjoy something that you personally enjoy, because something exists which you do not - that's like my saying I will absolutely never eat again because blueberries taste awful to me.

 

2) Perfect World is not as at fault as you expect they are - play any of their other games (even older titles), and in my experience, you will see much better put together games. The case with Neverwinter is that the company which WotC actually licensed the creation of the game was purchased by Perfect World, who then did not scrap and re-do the entire game because that it is just genuinely crazy to do.

 

3) Companies exist because someone has said "hey, we could sell this!" and they persist only if that person was right - that you are surprised that a company would do something seemingly motivated by profit, such as license a video game or create a new edition of a table-top game to try and boost sales, is completely ridiculous.

 

4) That you think a "bad" videogame impacts the reputation of Dungeons & Dragons, rather than only impacting the reputation of that one videogame and the company that produced it (Cryptic Studios) or released it (Perfect World), is bonkers.

 

Opinion, being subjective as it is, actually happens to have numerous folks out there who enjoy Neverwinter Online, and some are even getting into table-top D&D because of it... and that is very, very far from any "ruined reputation" or justification for your overly dramatic boycott response.

 

1. I was making my own systems for tabletop RPG's as a kid way before I got into D&D. With today's technology there's a lot you can do with just a little creativity and effort. In fact, it would be far easier for a group to make their own rules than it would be to bother purchasing the new iteration to memorize. As for 4th edition, I was already creating 90% of the content, including encounters, campaign settings, storyline, etc. As Gary Gygax said, we don't even need the rules to play.

 

2. Fine, I will be sure to blame Cryptic too.

 

3. I understand companies need to make money, and it's not the fact they licensed a video game or decided to make a new iteration that bothers me. It's that the quality keeps getting lower and lower, until it seems like my eight year old brother could probably do a better job of recreating the D&D experience with a set of lego blocks. Also the fact that Neverwinter did not keep any of its promises to the hardcore D&D fans who anticipated it and invested money in its development really irks me. Just look at the state of the Foundry, that is the kind of disrespect Dungeon Masters get in that game from the devs and community mods. In a hypothetical transation, say I were to offer you a barrel of apples for 10 dollars. Then, upon payment, I give you a barrel of crab apples. You can't turn me in for fraud or anything, after all, crab apples ARE apples. That's how I take it the devs at Cryptic felt about making Neverwinter Online. They didn't set out to make a good game, they just set out to make a game, so they could get their ten bucks. Maybe some people can roll over and accept being suckered into paying for garbage, but I am in utter shock and disbelief that Wizards of the Coast even allowed it's release, considering the quality of 4th edition supplements when I first got into it. Even though it's free to play it's still too expensive even if you don't spend a penny on it because it is a big waste of time. Sorry if that wall of text got a little melodramatic, I should probably be using this time to write my next campaign...

 

4. Maybe I am bonkers, but here's my perspective on the matter. Dungeons & Dragons used to be about quality over quantity. It was sort of a niche that you had to be really nerdy or geeky to fit into. It was a creative outlet for people that liked to draw, make maps, do math, write stories, play board games, role play, etc. I feel like it's getting dumbed down though as Wizards, Cryptic, Perfect World, etc. try to make it appeal to as wide of a demographic as possible. Even the later "Essentials" materials printed for 4th edition were lazy paperbacks with only a couple of cookie-cutter classes with totally linear character progression. That's how the character creation system turned out in Neverwinter Online. And I have a hunch that as time goes on there will be even less options and freedom in future iterations, because that would just make it too complicated for newer players thus interfere with their profit making. We can also say goodbye to hardback books and Wizards sponsored apps to support us creating our own content, since us being able to make our own content will possibly discourage us from spending money on content from the publisher. There will also be less content per book. I guess that's fine though if thousands of young hipsters get to feel cool flipping through the pages of their first Monster Manual. The true tabletop players don't even need any iteration of D&D to have fun.

 

In summary, if you guys want to keep playing 4e, that's fine, I love the system. I'd just rather create my own system than continue to represent a company which I feel no longer has my interests at heart. I really don't expect Wizards to keep supporting 4e though, the selection of D&D books at the nearest Barnes & Noble has barely changed over the last few years, with the only notable change being the availability of 3rd edition books now. They probably haven't sold a single 4th edition book all year. I may be bonkers for boycotting Wizards, but you guys are equally bonkers for expecting a company to put a niche group's interests over their own profit margin. Have fun gaming, whatever system or iteration you decide to use. :D

I am currently enjoying 4e with no plans of changing because i like the product and have many books.  I don't feel like investing in a new system.  I was really liking that they were releasing edition neutral adventures.  Unfortunately they decided to quit doing that was well.  Please continue the edition neutral adventures.

I honestly don't see why they need to stop the 'older' editions; especially if the older one turns out to be more favoured than the newer (World of Darkness, key example) the V20th of that is Dark Ages meets modern settings - so the 2nd edition got shafted effectively. D&D can be pretty much the same way; even if they have to "remake" the core rulebooks of E1-E2-E3 (and Pathfinder, oh wait... nvm) with the PH1/2/3 etc and make it x4/5 the original size... they'd sell for decades to come, as everyone has a ruleset they want or like better.

The moment you stop wondering if something could be done differently; is the moment you've got a problem.

 

I think they plan on having all the past editions on DriveThruRPG. The actual problem with printing them is that stores do not want to tie up the limited shelve space with stuff that might not sell. Printing of the books is quite expensive as well. The PDFs only have a cost when they are downloaded as the storage of a hundred megabyte is not much. Most PFDs are much smaller in size.

Update:

 

I bought the Essentials Dungeon Master's Kit last year at the local shop (The Portal - Lehigh Valley, PA) for $40. Just was browsing around E-Bay/Amazon for 4e stuff. The going price for 4e DMK is now $150, even more for a Mint unpunched kit.

 

That's a pretty fine ROI.

Kazadvorn wrote:

Update:

 

I bought the Essentials Dungeon Master's Kit last year at the local shop (The Portal - Lehigh Valley, PA) for $40. Just was browsing around E-Bay/Amazon for 4e stuff. The going price for 4e DMK is now $150, even more for a Mint unpunched kit.

 

That's a pretty fine ROI.

 

Not quite sure what you are trying to say here. Are you suggesting WotC print new books and charge $150 a peice to make it worth while? I suspect if WotC printed new books, people would have troubles selling at $150. I doubt many people would pay that anyway.

 

I have a sneaking suspition that new players without books will most likely want to purchase the current version. The small hobby stores won't want to keep old version books in stock with a new version about to drop. Now would be the best time to buy 4th edition as those stores are probably trying to move that merchandise before 5th edition. The number of people who are looking to replace a wornout book will be more limited. Back when I ran an AD&D 1st edition game, I went to a used bookstore and bought several used players guides for quite cheap. I used those as guest books if the players forgot theirs.

FYI In recent News From the GAMA Trade Show, WoTC announced that 4E will remain in print until interest goes away.

 

D&D Presentation: No edition wars. They will still print 4e until interest goes away. Do whatever rules, enjoy this story
 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Plaguescarred wrote:

FYI In recent News From the GAMA Trade Show, WoTC announced that 4E will remain in print until interest goes away.

 

 

D&D Presentation: No edition wars. They will still print 4e until interest goes away. Do whatever rules, enjoy this story

 

 

I hope this is not the reason they have been real slow at putting out any 4th edition stuff on DriveThruRPG.

Amazon shows it's getting stock on several key 4e items this weekend.

JodyJohnson wrote:
Amazon shows it's getting stock on several key 4e items this weekend.

 

Like what? They're looking to buy the Rules Compendium - now available new... from $98.99 and up... to $250.00.

Now, I know that the person asking $250.00 is'nt going to sell it... today. But tomorrow, when that copy is the cheapest on the net? Who knows.

 

Not every item is out of the warehouses - but the things that most folks want and need are gone. 4e Monster Manual 2 - gone. Out of print, out of stock. $50.00 and up on Amazon.

It looks like a printing of PHB 1, DMG 1, MM 1, Heroes of the Fallen Lands, Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, and Dungeon Tiles: the Dungeon arrived/are arriving at Amazon. For reprints I don't expect Amazon gets them in large numbers at a time, so it's likely they will go in and out of stock at Amazon and the Distributors as they order more. Books that are available as PDFs on DnDClassics.com probably won't be reprinted. This includes MM2, MM3, RC, and Adventurer's Vault. Both DDI and PDFs keep this product available.

Agreed I LOVE 4E and have no intrest in Next.