Why use a Greatsword or Maul?

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I can't see why I'd ever choose a Greatsword or Maul over a different "Heavy" weapon right now. They have a Higher minimum, and will roll average more often... Is rolling 7 damage more often really worth only getting +1d6 on a crit? At least the other Heavy weapons that don't crit well let us do other things like have reach or knock people down with every attack.
Is rolling 7 damage more often really worth only getting +1d6 on a crit?

Actually, surprisingly enough, it is. Assuming you have a +3 Strength and need around a ten to hit, the greatsword has an average DPR (including crits) of about 6.075 damage per round, while the greataxe has an average DPR (again, including their 2d8 crits) of about 6.025 damage per round. So the greatsword is actually .05 DPR ahead of the greataxe, while the greataxe has the chance of a lucky crit that has a higher maximum damage than the greatsword, but doesn't happen often at all. So, really, I'd say they're about even... but yeah, they don't look even until you do the math (the kind of math that gets you labeled a "filthy power-gamer"). I'll admit, it threw me off at first, too.
I assume the maul and greatsword were an oversight and they are supposed to do 4d6 on a crit.  

I  doubt they wanted a staff to possibly crit for 20 while a greatsword was capped at 18. 

Remember this is a public forum where people express their opinions assume there is a “In my humble opinion” in front of every post especially mine.  

 

Things you should check out because they are cool, like bow-ties and fezzes.

https://app.roll20.net/home  Roll20 great free virtual table top so you can play with old friends who are far away.

http://donjon.bin.sh/  Donjon has random treasure, maps, pick pocket results, etc.. for every edition of D&D.

I assume the maul and greatsword were an oversight and they are supposed to do 4d6 on a crit.  

I  doubt they wanted a staff to possibly crit for 20 while a greatsword was capped at 18. 



That's exactly what I was thinking.

Also, thank you for doing the math, JRutterbush, I figured there was probably some logical justification.

They said they were gonna have multiple ways to play each class, so I'm thinking the features are changing so radically right now because they are testing out different ways of doing things to find the most popular options, then bringing those back and finding a way to make them worth together.

I do enjoy this version of the fighter, I just wish their dice were on a per round basis, not a per turn. The most fun my players ever had in Next was a few packets ago when everyone had Martial Dice and Skill Tricks and Maneuvers to spend them on every round. It wasn't the most balanced packet and had it's issues, but to me and my friends, it was the most fun and thats whats really important about playing any Pen and Paper game. We do it to relax and enjoy ourselves.
If you play with the warrior subclass, however, you would always take the higher crit version of weapons, because as soon as you get improved critical they instantly become more effective, and it just gets better for you as your improved critical gets better.

It seems to me a mistake to design it so warriors never wiel sword.
I believe it's just a mistake. The Critical Hit rule is probably outdated, belonging to the last packet in which deadly strike still existed, and no weapon dealt more than one die as a base (great sword dealt d12). I will use it as 4d6 on a crit, while the great axe deals 1d12 + 2d8.
a crit withgreataaxe averages out a point or so higher than A maul or greatsword even with power attack. I put the following into anydice
4d6+5
1d12+2d8+5
for power attack
6d6+10
2d12+2d8+10
OP needs to reread the critical hit rules

"Trying to run gritty gothic horror with 4e is like trying to cut down a tree with a hammer, likewise trying to run heroic fantasy with 1e is like trying to hammer a nail with a chainsaw."

 
 

 This is what i get when i hit the Quote button:  http://community.wizards.com/%23

 

  

"when you score a critical hit with a weapon that has the critical property, the damage value in after the critical property is added to the damage instead of the weapon's damage ddie" page 4. Of equipment.pdf

"Trying to run gritty gothic horror with 4e is like trying to cut down a tree with a hammer, likewise trying to run heroic fantasy with 1e is like trying to hammer a nail with a chainsaw."

 
 

 This is what i get when i hit the Quote button:  http://community.wizards.com/%23

 

  

I believe it's just a mistake. The Critical Hit rule is probably outdated, belonging to the last packet in which deadly strike still existed, and no weapon dealt more than one die as a base (great sword dealt d12). I will use it as 4d6 on a crit, while the great axe deals 1d12 + 2d8.

Dunno.   They make alot more sense now with multi-attack then with deadly strike.


Before:
5d12  + 5 +  1d12 crit  = +17% damage.

Now:
(1d12 + 5 + 1d12 crit)  * 3  = +56% damage. 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I believe it's just a mistake. The Critical Hit rule is probably outdated, belonging to the last packet in which deadly strike still existed, and no weapon dealt more than one die as a base (great sword dealt d12). I will use it as 4d6 on a crit, while the great axe deals 1d12 + 2d8.

Dunno.   They make alot more sense now with multi-attack then with deadly strike.


Before:
5d12  + 5 +  1d12 crit  = +17% damage.

Now:
(1d12 + 5 + 1d12 crit)  * 3  = +56% damage. 



I meant the part in which only one die of the attack's damage dice is the extra. When they say that a normal attack of 2d6+2 will be 3d6+2, I am inclined to think that the 2d6 are 2W of a shortsword and not 1W of a greats word. But, of course, I can't be sure. We could ask on twitter... yet, I don't think it's necessary. I'm pretty confident the great sword is suppossed to deal 2d6 extra on crit, it wouldn't make much sense to be 3d6 on crit, while the great axe is 1d12+2d8.
I'm pretty confident the great sword is suppossed to deal 2d6 extra on crit, it wouldn't make much sense to be 3d6 on crit, while the great axe is 1d12+2d8.

I'm pretty sure that's fully intentional.

Higher average, or higher crit.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I'm pretty confident the great sword is suppossed to deal 2d6 extra on crit, it wouldn't make much sense to be 3d6 on crit, while the great axe is 1d12+2d8.

I'm pretty sure that's fully intentional.

Higher average, or higher crit.




Greatsword Average damage on normal hit = 7
Greataxe Average damage on a normal hit = 6.5

Greatsword Average Crit [using 3d6] = 10.5      max =18
Greataxe Average Crit = 15.5                           max = 28

Quarterstaff Average Crit = 11                          max = 20


So you think trading +0.5 average damage is worth average crit damage of 4 points less? 

I think this boils down to lazy designers who either don't care about math which means they should be fired, or slopy work and they didn't think about it because it is just a playtest that = mistake.

I hope it is a mistake and not intentional. 

Remember this is a public forum where people express their opinions assume there is a “In my humble opinion” in front of every post especially mine.  

 

Things you should check out because they are cool, like bow-ties and fezzes.

https://app.roll20.net/home  Roll20 great free virtual table top so you can play with old friends who are far away.

http://donjon.bin.sh/  Donjon has random treasure, maps, pick pocket results, etc.. for every edition of D&D.

+4 * .05 = .2 extra damage.

.5 * 50% hit rate = .25 extra damage.

Difference = 0.05 damage.

So yes, i think it's intended to be a choice.


unless your a warrior, then you get more from the crits.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

+4 * .05 = .2 extra damage. .5 * 50% hit rate = .25 extra damage. Difference = 0.05 damage. So yes, i think it's intended to be a choice. unless your a warrior, then you get more from the crits.



Who else besides fighter warrior subclasses will be mostly using two-handed weapons?

What happens to the math when we make greatswords and mauls do 4d6 on a crit?
Average Crit becomes 14 still less than the greataxe but seems more balanced.

With greatswords doing 2d6 [crit 4d6] vs great axe 1d12 [1d12+2d8] I see a lot of people choosing either based on what weapon they see their character using since the math is different but about the same.
 

Remember this is a public forum where people express their opinions assume there is a “In my humble opinion” in front of every post especially mine.  

 

Things you should check out because they are cool, like bow-ties and fezzes.

https://app.roll20.net/home  Roll20 great free virtual table top so you can play with old friends who are far away.

http://donjon.bin.sh/  Donjon has random treasure, maps, pick pocket results, etc.. for every edition of D&D.

The maul is already ahead.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

If you play with the warrior subclass, however, you would always take the higher crit version of weapons, because as soon as you get improved critical they instantly become more effective, and it just gets better for you as your improved critical gets better. It seems to me a mistake to design it so warriors never wiel sword.

Yes, higher critical damage is a better option when you're playing a character focused on critical hits. Why is this a surprise? Also, while the greataxe does technically become slightly better with the improved critical of the Warrior, it's not by much. Assuming a Strength of 20, needing an 11+ to hit, and an 18-20 critical chance:

Greatsword:
.5(12) + .15(3.5) = 6.525 damage per attack

Greataxe:
.5(11.5) + .15(7) = 6.8

So, while a greataxe is technically better than a greatsword if you have improved critical hit rates, you deal about one point of extra damage every three attacks you make. Not exactly game-breaking, and there will certainly be some Warriors who will still prefer rolling average damage more often than having a DPA of .3 higher. (With a critical hit chance of 19-20, the difference is even lower. Greatsword comes out at 6.35 DPA, while the greataxe comes out at 6.45, for a total of +1 damage over ten attacks.)

Maybe crits should just add player level + relevant ability bonus to damage, for ANY weapon.  Range of 1 to 25.  Scales smoothly, eliminates (some) min-maxing of weapon types.

The cool part is that a level 20 could still do 26 points of damage with a blowgun.  Right in the eye! 
"Therefore, you are the crapper, I'm merely the vessel through which you crap." -- akaddk
Seeems perfectly fine to have higher crit weapons.

Nothing's wrong with a little min-maxing. As long as people don't feel useless. Who cares if one guy does 0.5 damage more.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Seeems perfectly fine to have higher crit weapons.

Nothing's wrong with a little min-maxing. As long as people don't feel useless. Who cares if one guy does 0.5 damage more.

Word.

Danny

I can't see why I'd ever choose a Greatsword or Maul over a different "Heavy" weapon right now.



Because a maul does double damage to skellies.

I'm pretty confident the great sword is suppossed to deal 2d6 extra on crit, it wouldn't make much sense to be 3d6 on crit, while the great axe is 1d12+2d8.

I'm pretty sure that's fully intentional.

Higher average, or higher crit.



It was pretty obvious. Great axe still has greater crit damage, but not that higher. There has to be a choice for fighters.

From twitter:

@mikemearls Hey, Mike. Quick question: RAW, a great sword deals 2d6+1d6 on a crit, while the great axe deals 1d12+2d8. Is this intentional?
@vanesitasss Nope, that's a bug. Suggested fix - roll 2d6 for the greatsword's crit damage.


I can't see why I'd ever choose a Greatsword or Maul over a different "Heavy" weapon right now.


Because a maul does double damage to skellies.


This.  In spades.

I wish there were more use-case variations between weapons, so that some weapons weren't always statistically better than others.

FWIW I'm a huge fan of the Dungeon World system, in which classes get damage dice, like hit dice.  "You're a wizard?  Then you do d4.  Take any weapon you want."
"Therefore, you are the crapper, I'm merely the vessel through which you crap." -- akaddk
I'm pretty confident the great sword is suppossed to deal 2d6 extra on crit, it wouldn't make much sense to be 3d6 on crit, while the great axe is 1d12+2d8.

I'm pretty sure that's fully intentional.

Higher average, or higher crit.

It was pretty obvious. Great axe still has greater crit damage, but not that higher. There has to be a choice for fighters.

From twitter:

@mikemearls Hey, Mike. Quick question: RAW, a great sword deals 2d6+1d6 on a crit, while the great axe deals 1d12+2d8. Is this intentional?
@vanesitasss Nope, that's a bug. Suggested fix - roll 2d6 for the greatsword's crit damage.

I don't fully trust merls on math.

But he's still implying that the greataxe deals more crit damage, while the sword has better normal damage.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I'm pretty confident the great sword is suppossed to deal 2d6 extra on crit, it wouldn't make much sense to be 3d6 on crit, while the great axe is 1d12+2d8.

I'm pretty sure that's fully intentional.

Higher average, or higher crit.

It was pretty obvious. Great axe still has greater crit damage, but not that higher. There has to be a choice for fighters.

From twitter:

@mikemearls Hey, Mike. Quick question: RAW, a great sword deals 2d6+1d6 on a crit, while the great axe deals 1d12+2d8. Is this intentional?
@vanesitasss Nope, that's a bug. Suggested fix - roll 2d6 for the greatsword's crit damage.

I don't fully trust merls on math.

But he's still implying that the greataxe deals more crit damage, while the sword has better normal damage.



Of course! The Great Axe deals more damage on crit, 1d12+2d8. The greatsword is supposed to deal 2d6+2d6. But the +1d6 damage of the great sword RAW is just sad.

Anyway. Problem solved, I guess.
If you play with the warrior subclass, however, you would always take the higher crit version of weapons, because as soon as you get improved critical they instantly become more effective, and it just gets better for you as your improved critical gets better. It seems to me a mistake to design it so warriors never wiel sword.

Yes, higher critical damage is a better option when you're playing a character focused on critical hits. Why is this a surprise? Also, while the greataxe does technically become slightly better with the improved critical of the Warrior, it's not by much. Assuming a Strength of 20, needing an 11+ to hit, and an 18-20 critical chance:

Greatsword:
.5(12) + .15(3.5) = 6.525 damage per attack

Greataxe:
.5(11.5) + .15(7) = 6.8

So, while a greataxe is technically better than a greatsword if you have improved critical hit rates, you deal about one point of extra damage every three attacks you make. Not exactly game-breaking, and there will certainly be some Warriors who will still prefer rolling average damage more often than having a DPA of .3 higher. (With a critical hit chance of 19-20, the difference is even lower. Greatsword comes out at 6.35 DPA, while the greataxe comes out at 6.45, for a total of +1 damage over ten attacks.)




It doesn't work as well with the longsword vs. the battleaxe though.

Longsword:
.5(9.5) + .15(4.5) = 5.425

Battleaxe:
.5(9.5) + .15(6.5) = 5.725

Here we get a full .3 higher for the battleaxe and nothing to show for it from the longsword. (Versatile is nice, but it doesn't do anything for the sword and board comparison.) Players are going to look at the character sheet and see that 1d12, and with improved critical features, no warrior will choose longsword unless it is really important to their character concept, and will probably feel a bit cheated even then. So we end up with a situation where basically no one takes that subclass and uses a longsword--which is absurd. It is supposed to represent the most basic iconic D&D fighter, and the most basic iconic D&D (human) fighter goes sword and board.
Note also that you made a mistake with the critical damage on the greataxe. It should average to 9, making the total 7.1; a full .575 higher per attack.
I'm pretty confident the great sword is suppossed to deal 2d6 extra on crit, it wouldn't make much sense to be 3d6 on crit, while the great axe is 1d12+2d8.

I'm pretty sure that's fully intentional.

Higher average, or higher crit.

It was pretty obvious. Great axe still has greater crit damage, but not that higher. There has to be a choice for fighters.

From twitter:

@mikemearls Hey, Mike. Quick question: RAW, a great sword deals 2d6+1d6 on a crit, while the great axe deals 1d12+2d8. Is this intentional?
@vanesitasss Nope, that's a bug. Suggested fix - roll 2d6 for the greatsword's crit damage.

I don't fully trust merls on math.

But he's still implying that the greataxe deals more crit damage, while the sword has better normal damage.



Of course! The Great Axe deals more damage on crit, 1d12+2d8. The greatsword is supposed to deal 2d6+2d6. But the +1d6 damage of the great sword RAW is just sad.

Anyway. Problem solved, I guess.

the best part is that nothing in the packet states or implies that a greatsword would do 3d6 on a crit, people are misreading the critical hit section and thinking that the greatsword has a d6 damage die rather than a 2d6 damage die.

"Trying to run gritty gothic horror with 4e is like trying to cut down a tree with a hammer, likewise trying to run heroic fantasy with 1e is like trying to hammer a nail with a chainsaw."

 
 

 This is what i get when i hit the Quote button:  http://community.wizards.com/%23

 

  


 the best part is that nothing in the packet states or implies that a greatsword would do 3d6 on a crit, people are misreading the critical hit section and thinking that the greatsword has a d6 damage die rather than a 2d6 damage die.



It both states and implies that a greatsword would do 3d6 on a crit.

"If your attack is a critical hit, the target takes extra damage. Take one of the attack’s damage dice, roll it a second time, and add it to the damage against the target. For example, if your attack normally deals 2d6 + 2 piercing damage, the critical hit deals 3d6 + 2 piercing damage."---How to Play pg.16

The example is even an attack rolling 2d6 base damage.

The way you are trying to read it a read dragon would bite you for 4d12+7 and crit for 8d12+7 when it is perfectly clear the intention of the rule is the dragon would only do 5d12+7.



 

Remember this is a public forum where people express their opinions assume there is a “In my humble opinion” in front of every post especially mine.  

 

Things you should check out because they are cool, like bow-ties and fezzes.

https://app.roll20.net/home  Roll20 great free virtual table top so you can play with old friends who are far away.

http://donjon.bin.sh/  Donjon has random treasure, maps, pick pocket results, etc.. for every edition of D&D.


 the best part is that nothing in the packet states or implies that a greatsword would do 3d6 on a crit, people are misreading the critical hit section and thinking that the greatsword has a d6 damage die rather than a 2d6 damage die.



It both states and implies that a greatsword would do 3d6 on a crit.

"If your attack is a critical hit, the target takes extra damage. Take one of the attack’s damage dice, roll it a second time, and add it to the damage against the target. For example, if your attack normally deals 2d6 + 2 piercing damage, the critical hit deals 3d6 + 2 piercing damage."---How to Play pg.16

The example is even an attack rolling 2d6 base damage.

The way you are trying to read it a read dragon would bite you for 4d12+7 and crit for 8d12+7 when it is perfectly clear the intention of the rule is the dragon would only do 5d12+7.



 


i underlined and italicized the part you missed.  A  greatsword has a 2d6 damage die, so you roll one additional 2d6 on a crit.  TO better understand the critical rules take a look at the more recently updated descriptions given in the "Critical" weapon property on page 4 of the Equipment pdf and the "Brutal Critical" barbarian class feature on page 2 of the Classes pdf.  Hope that clears up your confusion.

"Trying to run gritty gothic horror with 4e is like trying to cut down a tree with a hammer, likewise trying to run heroic fantasy with 1e is like trying to hammer a nail with a chainsaw."

 
 

 This is what i get when i hit the Quote button:  http://community.wizards.com/%23

 

  

@ berathus - that's a+1 from me.

 the best part is that nothing in the packet states or implies that a greatsword would do 3d6 on a crit, people are misreading the critical hit section and thinking that the greatsword has a d6 damage die rather than a 2d6 damage die.



It both states and implies that a greatsword would do 3d6 on a crit.

"If your attack is a critical hit, the target takes extra damage. Take one of the attack's damage dice, roll it a second time, and add it to the damage against the target. For example, if your attack normally deals 2d6 + 2 piercing damage, the critical hit deals 3d6 + 2 piercing damage."---How to Play pg.16

The example is even an attack rolling 2d6 base damage.

The way you are trying to read it a read dragon would bite you for 4d12+7 and crit for 8d12+7 when it is perfectly clear the intention of the rule is the dragon would only do 5d12+7.



 


i underlined and italicized the part you missed.  A  greatsword has a 2d6 damage die, so you roll one additional 2d6 on a crit.  TO better understand the critical rules take a look at the more recently updated descriptions given in the "Critical" weapon property on page 4 of the Equipment pdf and the "Brutal Critical" barbarian class feature on page 2 of the Classes pdf.  Hope that clears up your confusion.



I underlined and italicized the part you missed. A greatsword dealsnormally  deals 2d6 damage, so the critical hit deals 3d6 piercing damage, as per the example given right in the text. 2d6 is not a single die, it is two dice that you roll when dealing damage (damage dice) and as the rules state, you take one of the damage dice and re-roll it on a critical hit. To better understand the critical rules take a look at the critical rules in the how to play pdf. Hope that clears up some of your confusion.

FWIW I'm a huge fan of the Dungeon World system, in which classes get damage dice, like hit dice.  "You're a wizard?  Then you do d4.  Take any weapon you want."



Dungeon World seems to have a number of elegant mechanics, but could you imagine the outcry if they tried to implement something like this in D&D? 


FWIW I'm a huge fan of the Dungeon World system, in which classes get damage dice, like hit dice.  "You're a wizard?  Then you do d4.  Take any weapon you want."



Dungeon World seems to have a number of elegant mechanics, but could you imagine the outcry if they tried to implement something like this in D&D? 



13th age has a similar mechanic, but instead of your class just telling you your damage die and the weapon not mattering, your class tells you yor damage die with different weapon types. So a wizard might deal 1d4 with a sword but 1d8 with a staff, while it might be the other way around for a fighter. It's a very nice compromise between the D&D approach and the DW approach, and seems pretty popular. But yeah, even that would probably be derided as " not D&D"

 the best part is that nothing in the packet states or implies that a greatsword would do 3d6 on a crit, people are misreading the critical hit section and thinking that the greatsword has a d6 damage die rather than a 2d6 damage die.



It both states and implies that a greatsword would do 3d6 on a crit.

"If your attack is a critical hit, the target takes extra damage. Take one of the attack's damage dice, roll it a second time, and add it to the damage against the target. For example, if your attack normally deals 2d6 + 2 piercing damage, the critical hit deals 3d6 + 2 piercing damage."---How to Play pg.16

The example is even an attack rolling 2d6 base damage.

The way you are trying to read it a read dragon would bite you for 4d12+7 and crit for 8d12+7 when it is perfectly clear the intention of the rule is the dragon would only do 5d12+7.



 


i underlined and italicized the part you missed.  A  greatsword has a 2d6 damage die, so you roll one additional 2d6 on a crit.  TO better understand the critical rules take a look at the more recently updated descriptions given in the "Critical" weapon property on page 4 of the Equipment pdf and the "Brutal Critical" barbarian class feature on page 2 of the Classes pdf.  Hope that clears up your confusion.



I underlined and italicized the part you missed. A greatsword dealsnormally  deals 2d6 damage, so the critical hit deals 3d6 piercing damage, as per the example given right in the text. 2d6 is not a single die, it is two dice that you roll when dealing damage (damage dice) and as the rules state, you take one of the damage dice and re-roll it on a critical hit. To better understand the critical rules take a look at the critical rules in the how to play pdf. Hope that clears up some of your confusion.

normal hit = 1W + mods
critical hit = 2W + mods

a greatsword has a W value of 2d6, so 2W is 4d6, not 3d6.

the example given hasn't been changed from when there was deadly strike.  Also, there sre no 2d6 piercing weapons, which indicates the example is using a 1d6 piercing weapon with deadly strike.  

"Trying to run gritty gothic horror with 4e is like trying to cut down a tree with a hammer, likewise trying to run heroic fantasy with 1e is like trying to hammer a nail with a chainsaw."

 
 

 This is what i get when i hit the Quote button:  http://community.wizards.com/%23

 

  

So you think a red dragon would do 8d12+7 on a crit?  

That is not what the rules say if they wanted it to do +[W] they would say so but they don't they say an extra die [singular].

Now don't get me wrong I houseruled mauls and greatswords criting damage to 4d6 as soon as I saw how screwed up it was but the point is I had to house rule it because the way they wrote the rule on critical hits.

 

Remember this is a public forum where people express their opinions assume there is a “In my humble opinion” in front of every post especially mine.  

 

Things you should check out because they are cool, like bow-ties and fezzes.

https://app.roll20.net/home  Roll20 great free virtual table top so you can play with old friends who are far away.

http://donjon.bin.sh/  Donjon has random treasure, maps, pick pocket results, etc.. for every edition of D&D.


 the best part is that nothing in the packet states or implies that a greatsword would do 3d6 on a crit, people are misreading the critical hit section and thinking that the greatsword has a d6 damage die rather than a 2d6 damage die.



It both states and implies that a greatsword would do 3d6 on a crit.

"If your attack is a critical hit, the target takes extra damage. Take one of the attack's damage dice, roll it a second time, and add it to the damage against the target. For example, if your attack normally deals 2d6 + 2 piercing damage, the critical hit deals 3d6 + 2 piercing damage."---How to Play pg.16

The example is even an attack rolling 2d6 base damage.

The way you are trying to read it a read dragon would bite you for 4d12+7 and crit for 8d12+7 when it is perfectly clear the intention of the rule is the dragon would only do 5d12+7.



 


i underlined and italicized the part you missed.  A  greatsword has a 2d6 damage die, so you roll one additional 2d6 on a crit.  TO better understand the critical rules take a look at the more recently updated descriptions given in the "Critical" weapon property on page 4 of the Equipment pdf and the "Brutal Critical" barbarian class feature on page 2 of the Classes pdf.  Hope that clears up your confusion.



I underlined and italicized the part you missed. A greatsword dealsnormally  deals 2d6 damage, so the critical hit deals 3d6 piercing damage, as per the example given right in the text. 2d6 is not a single die, it is two dice that you roll when dealing damage (damage dice) and as the rules state, you take one of the damage dice and re-roll it on a critical hit. To better understand the critical rules take a look at the critical rules in the how to play pdf. Hope that clears up some of your confusion.

normal hit = 1W + mods
critical hit = 2W + mods

a greatsword has a W value of 2d6, so 2W is 4d6, not 3d6.

the example given hasn't been changed from when there was deadly strike.  Also, there sre no 2d6 piercing weapons, which indicates the example is using a 1d6 piercing weapon with deadly strike.  


[w], while an elegant and useful mechanic, is for what ever reason not actually used in Next as it currently stands.
So you think a red dragon would do 8d12+7 on a crit?  

That is not what the rules say if they wanted it to do +[W] they would say so but they don't they say an extra die [singular].

Now don't get me wrong I houseruled mauls and greatswords criting damage to 4d6 as soon as I saw how screwed up it was but the point is I had to house rule it because the way they wrote the rule on critical hits.

 



2d6 is a single die for the purposes of weapon damage dice.  d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, 2d6, (and apparently 2d8 for certain weapon crits).  if d14 was a common die type you could use that instead, but if you don't have a d14, a 2d6 works just as well as a single damage die.  As for dragons i have no idea what their base damage die is, so i can't speculate on them.  

"Trying to run gritty gothic horror with 4e is like trying to cut down a tree with a hammer, likewise trying to run heroic fantasy with 1e is like trying to hammer a nail with a chainsaw."

 
 

 This is what i get when i hit the Quote button:  http://community.wizards.com/%23

 

  

So you think a red dragon would do 8d12+7 on a crit?  

That is not what the rules say if they wanted it to do +[W] they would say so but they don't they say an extra die [singular].

Now don't get me wrong I houseruled mauls and greatswords criting damage to 4d6 as soon as I saw how screwed up it was but the point is I had to house rule it because the way they wrote the rule on critical hits.

 



2d6 is a single die for the purposes of weapon damage dice.  d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, 2d6, (and apparently 2d8 for certain weapon crits).  if d14 was a common die type you could use that instead, but if you don't have a d14, a 2d6 works just as well as a single damage die.  As for dragons i have no idea what their base damage die is, so i can't speculate on them.  



The text explicitly contradicts you. If you look at the 00 Read First.pdf, you'll see that Critical Hit rules were updated in this packet, 8/2/13. 
So I'm sorry, but there's not enough wiggle room for your interpretation here. An attack that normally does 2d6+ on a hit does 3d6+ on a crit, unless otherwise specified by weapon type. 
So you think a red dragon would do 8d12+7 on a crit?  

That is not what the rules say if they wanted it to do +[W] they would say so but they don't they say an extra die [singular].

Now don't get me wrong I houseruled mauls and greatswords criting damage to 4d6 as soon as I saw how screwed up it was but the point is I had to house rule it because the way they wrote the rule on critical hits.

 



2d6 is a single die for the purposes of weapon damage dice.  d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, 2d6, (and apparently 2d8 for certain weapon crits).  if d14 was a common die type you could use that instead, but if you don't have a d14, a 2d6 works just as well as a single damage die.  As for dragons i have no idea what their base damage die is, so i can't speculate on them.  



The text explicitly contradicts you. If you look at the 00 Read First.pdf, you'll see that Critical Hit rules were updated in this packet, 8/2/13. 
So I'm sorry, but there's not enough wiggle room for your interpretation here. An attack that normally does 2d6+ on a hit does 3d6+ on a crit, unless otherwise specified by weapon type. 

Read this packet's critical hits section and compare it to the one from the last packet, they are identical, not a word has been changed, meaning they meant to update them but forgot, which would serve only to further reinforce my point (in addition to the twitter feed confirming my point).

you still haven't addressed the fact that the example provided cannot happen without deadly strike. 

"Trying to run gritty gothic horror with 4e is like trying to cut down a tree with a hammer, likewise trying to run heroic fantasy with 1e is like trying to hammer a nail with a chainsaw."

 
 

 This is what i get when i hit the Quote button:  http://community.wizards.com/%23

 

  


FWIW I'm a huge fan of the Dungeon World system, in which classes get damage dice, like hit dice.  "You're a wizard?  Then you do d4.  Take any weapon you want."



Dungeon World seems to have a number of elegant mechanics, but could you imagine the outcry if they tried to implement something like this in D&D? 




Yeah, wouldn't happen.

In some ways I'm a grognard (base classes, fewer choices, more exploration/interaction, warlord stupidest idea ever, etc.) but at the same time I wish WotC would be willing to be a bit more flexible on some mechanics and terminology.  Some of it (like the very term "Hit Dice") seem to be held onto for no discernible reason other than resistance to change.
"Therefore, you are the crapper, I'm merely the vessel through which you crap." -- akaddk
 not a word has been changed, meaning they meant to update them but forgot,



It means no such thing.

which would serve only to further reinforce my point



In no way does the text corroborate your opinion.

(in addition to the twitter feed confirming my point).



The one about greatswords having the "critical" quality and getting 4d6 on crits? So? It's a weapon property, not the rule about crits. Crits, as a rule, add one damage die on a crit. So a dragon's bite is 4d12, or 5d12 on a crit. It wouldn't do 8d12 because the greatsword has a weapon property that bumps its crit damage. 

The extra die is the RULE. The critical weapon property is the EXCEPTION.

you still haven't addressed the fact that the example provided cannot happen without deadly strike. 



Deadly Strike isn't even a mechanic anymore. I'm not even sure why you're bringing it up.