MBC help

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Hey guys been trying to get a fun and workable mbc deck going. Somewhat budget.

This is what I have so far. Its been working okay.

Creatures 19

4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Blood Artist
3x Ravenous rats
2x Desecration Demon (keep switching between 2 and 4 of these guys)
1x Lord of the Void
1x Reaper of the Abyss
1x Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis
1x Sepulchral Primordial (Dont have four of any good "finisher" yet)
1x Crypt Ghast
1x Disciple of Bolas

Spells 19

3x Sign in Blood
2x Victim of Night
1x Ultimate Price
2x Sever the Bloodline
2x Mutilate (unexpectedly useful with Blood Artist)
3x Tribute to Hunger
1x Murder
1x Underworld connections
4x Duress

Lands

22 swamps


SD

1x Wits End
4x Knight of Infamy
4x Appetite for Brains
1x Pithing needle
2x Illness in the Ranks
3x Murder

Any help/criticism is appreciated. Thanks.
Bump. After some testing I changed it up.

Creatures

4x Blood Artist
4x Typhoid Rats
4x Wight of Precinct Six
4x Nighthawk
2x Nefarox
1x Reaper From the Abyss
2x Desecration Demon
1x Crypt Ghast

Spells

3x Sign in Blood
2x Victim of Night
4x Duress
3x Tribute to hunger
1x Sever the Bloodline
2x Mutilate
1x Underworld Connections

Lands

22x Swamp
This is my MBC list. Quite frankly i think it is the best possbile list with only very minor changes being made to it, most probably changing devour flesh out for something or using a different 1 of demon instead of lord of the void . It beats just about every single deck out there but certain match-ups are very hard (i.e. America Control and Jund) where even a single misstep can lose you the game, but if you play your cards right you can wipe the floor with them. Anyways here's the list hope it helps.
 
I am White/Black
I am White/Black
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I'm both orderly and selfish. I act mostly for my own benefit, but I respect and help my community - Specially when it helps me. At best, I'm loyal and dedicated; at worst, I'm elitist and shrewd.
what to put in instead of lilananna expensive card ,, standard of course , I am looking for the future so mainly from Rto ravinca and gatecrash
ALL black
Yeah that list is great. A bit expensive for me though. Seems like my list hast similar problems against certain decks, but that list would be more effective.
liliana is definitely expensive (to be honest i just run 3 duress in the MB and 1 duress 2 sever the bloodline in the SB, alond with 3 Lord of the Void and it works just fine) but the rest of it is relatively cheap considering how much of a rogue deck this still is at the moment. Still not ready to take the plunge and throw in human frailty but we'll see how big humans become here soon. I personally think there are very few cards around that would benefit more than whats already in the deck but i'd love to hear what you guys have in mind, or Niche if the master of black ever happens to bob his head in this thread XD
 
I am White/Black
I am White/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and selfish. I act mostly for my own benefit, but I respect and help my community - Specially when it helps me. At best, I'm loyal and dedicated; at worst, I'm elitist and shrewd.
also devour flesh and murder work great if your trying to keep it post rotation standard. Honestly im a little worried the deck may fall apart if cards like sign in blood, murder, duress, and nighthawk go out. the deck may just collapse.
I am White/Black
I am White/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and selfish. I act mostly for my own benefit, but I respect and help my community - Specially when it helps me. At best, I'm loyal and dedicated; at worst, I'm elitist and shrewd.
Look to Bloodgift Demon for a large flyer with some tacked-on card draw. He has worked wonders in my mono-black and B/R decks.
I glanced at this... and last night I looked at my black cards and tried to think of a budgety MBC deck.

I'll give you my thoughts and cards you should try to use... and you can go from there.

Crypt Ghast : A really good reason to run lots of swamps, or mono black. Also inexpensive, relatively speaking at 2-3 USD each. 

Victim of Night : A tough card to use outside of a heavy black based deck, hits a lot of high value targets. Good for budget mono black. I like 3 of these.

Sign in Blood : 4 of. Don't argue. 

Murder : I hate this card so much. But it does something not much else does and its easiest for MBC to run it. I like 2....

Now since you're on Crypt Ghast running straight sweepers isn't as exciting.... we don't want to lose the mana advantage. As such I strongly urge you to present alternate ways of smothering aggro. My personal favorites are:

Curse of Death's Hold : 2-3 of these. They're cheap and 1 beats Lingering Souls. 2 starts to lock aggro out of a game. If you can run 3 and get all 3 out aggro scoops.

Staff of Nin: Raw card draw is awesome. This card keeps lots of things off the table. Also lets you poke at Planeswalkers. Now before Crypt Ghast I ran this card as a 2x. With Crypt Ghast I get so much ballsier and I want to run it as a 3x. You stick 3 of these and you're drawing 4 cards a turn and lightning bolting something. Really, really, absuuuurrrddd. Combos well with Curse to hold down creatures.

Liliana of the Dark Realms : Ok not so budgety, but she's super cheap anyway. She draws cards, removes creatures... and blows your mana way up if ghast cannot get it done. Try 2-3

Liliana of the Veil: I briefly considered using both Lilianas since an unanswered Veil means you're winning... and if she gets answered you can smoothly roll out dark realms. Both beat up creatures. But Veil is not budget at all. She's too good to be cheap.

Sever the Bloodline is another aggro hater that loves lots of mana... smooth on curve... not a bad thing. Probably sideboard for token decks though.

Those cards help you smother aggro after doing some 1:1 plays to not die. You should also consider some creatures:

Vampire Nighthawk (or Nightveil Specter, I think its a sexy mono black card... maybe sideboard)
Gloom Surgeon (or Thrill Kill Assassin)
Bloodgift Demon is a really good 5 cmc evasive guy who... also draws cards.
Desecration Demon (i feel the 4cc area is busy, but he could be awesome if you dont want to use lili of the dark realms)

Anthos has a fine run at the deck above. But he should know by now that I do not like people playing creature heavy MBC decks with sweepers. Less creatures, more sweepers, or no sweepers please. You naughty boy.

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I apologize for my neglegence. On that note based on my build above would removing the mutilates in favor of 2x Curse of Death's Hold, 1 more staff of Nin and bumping my SiB back to a 4-of with 2 sever the bloodline in the SB be a better choice?
I am White/Black
I am White/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and selfish. I act mostly for my own benefit, but I respect and help my community - Specially when it helps me. At best, I'm loyal and dedicated; at worst, I'm elitist and shrewd.
Thanks for the replies guys. I liked your idea of curse of death's hold niche, just need to work on getting some.

Been testing my deck recently and this is what it is atm. Stomps most aggro pretty hard (and some reanimator).

Creatures

3x Blood Artist (really like these guys in a lot of circumstances).
3x Wight of Precinct Six (nice against creature heavy decks)
4x Typhoid Rats (Work as chump/removal)
4x Nighthawk
4x Crypt Ghast
2x Nefarox
1x Lord of the Void

Spells

3x Tragic Slip
3x Sign in Blood(want to get 4 in)
2x Victim of Night
2x Ultimate Price
3x Tribute to Hunger
2x Mutilate
1x Staff of Nin(Love this card. Thank you for pointing it out Anthos.)
1x Grave Betrayal (If I can get this out turn after Ghast, usually gg against creature decks.)

Lands

22x Swamps


Sideboard

4x Knight if Infamy
4x Duress
3x Appetite for Brains
1x Pithing Needle
2x Illness in the ranks
1x Wits end
Most of these lists are too creature heavy and won't be very effective at controlling the board.


Here is how MBC post-scars of mirrodin block should look like.

Creatures

Controlling creatures in the current metagame are few and far between and nowhere near as awsome as Phyrexian Obliterator at accomplishing MBC's mission.  However, there are some great cards and one of them I consider a black staple.

Black Cat

He's good against aggro, he's good against control, and he's great in a mirror and there is absolutely no reason not to swing with him every turn.

Vampire Nighthawk

Give this guy first strike and you are in business. A good candidate is Runechanter's Pike.  Even if you have just a few spells in your graveyard this guy is sick.

Desecration Demon

An absolute MUST in MBC. A 4 drop 6/6 that your opponent will happily trash creatures so this guy doesn't beat their face in.

Bloodgift Demon

A two of, don't worry about the loss of life Nighthawk will get it back for you.

Spells

While Scars block phasing out hurt MBC in the way of creatures tremendously it still left us great options even with Go For The Throat and Doom Blade going the wayside.  That said your kill magic should be varied so run 2 of this spell, and 2 of this other spell, so this way you have several answers for a varying degree of situations.

Duress

Absolute must.  The idea behind MBC besides keeping the board clear is disruption and duress delivers that disruption.  It gets rid of counter, rancor, sphinx's revelation, bonfire of the damned, and a whole mess of other cards that decks bank on for win-con. It also allows you to keep tabs on your opponents hand allowing you to follow up with a Appetite for Brains if need be.

Appetite for Brains

There are enough midrange decks in the current meta to run 2 of these mainboard.  It gets rid of Thragtusk and Restoration Angel turn 1 and it allows you to keep tabs on your opponents hand allowing you to follow up with a Duress if need be.

Sever the Bloodline

Absolute must.  It works great against aggro, midrange, tokens, the whole shabang.  2 of as a minimum.

Ultimate Price

I would stay away from this card TBH.  The current metagame has too many multicolored creatures and because of that this card ends up dead in your hand.

Tribute to Hunger 

Great card, because its instant you can do alot with this card.  2 of.

Liliana of the Veil

Absolute must, 3 of, and don't worry about the investment she'll retain her value after she cycles as she's played in eternal formats.  She is hands down the best plainswalker in the format in the way of CA AND board control.

Mind Rot

Great against control and great against aggro.  3 of.

Mutilate

A must, 4 of, this will facilitate keeping the board clear of shenanigans.

Runechanter's Pike

2 of, for your Nighthawks and Demons.

Tragic Slip

Excellent card.  It deals with indestructable vampires and oozes. 2 of.  Because of the sac mechanics already in the deck it shouldn't be difficult to get the -13/-13 effect.

Ghost Quarter

2 of, there's enough utility lands floating around that makes the card worth the slots in this deck and after 5 mana your deck is going to run fine.



4 x Black Cat
4 x Vampire Nighthawk
4 x Desecration Demon
2 x Bloodgift Demon

4 x Duress
4 x Tragic Slip
2 x Appetite for Brains
2 x Runechanter's Pike
2 x Tribute to Hunger 
3 x Liliana of the Veil
3 x Mind Rot
2 x Sever the Bloodline
4 x Mutilate

2 x Ghost Quarter
18 x Swamp

This deck is about a war of attrition.  The idea is to get them top decking and then killing whatever they play and god help them if they get a couple of lands on the draw with an empty hand.  With Liliana you are mostly going to be discarding swamps/sorceries/instants which is a good tradeoff for the deck anyway.  It should be noted there are very few reasons to have more than one creature out at a time other than bloodgift demon and another creature.

Your sideboard is mostly going to be the other parts of the killspells that you don't have a play set of and appetite for brains. 

-NW "Behold blessed perfection!" --Sheoldred, Whispering One
I kick a baby every time I see someone running 4 Mutilates with 14+ creatures. 

WUT R U DOIN.

STAHP.

NEWBS.

STAHP NEWBS.

STAHP!!!

Also, Ultimate Price is a card that should be somewhere in your 75. 

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

I really don't understand the whole build a board presence and then sweep them all away. I don't really think a MBC should be built around creatures. Sure you could have some cards that stop aggro in their tracks (IE Gloom Surgeon & Vampire Nighthawk


If you want to play Crypt Ghast into Griselbrand you're not really a control deck, your focused on setting up and protecting your "combo". 


I would splash Blue, even if its just for Nephalia Drownyard, its really control's best win condition.


Cards like Lilianna of the Veil, Murder, Devour Flesh, Mutilate, Ulitmate Price, and the like are where you probably want to be at. I wouldn't worry about any discarding other than Lilly. 

I can't think of too many MBC win-con's other than Griselbrand. Bloodgift Demon maybe... Otherwise you just get so much more value splashing Blue or White for things like Obzedat, Ghost Council or Jace, Memory Adept 
Agreed, stay away from creatures in a control deck. All you need are Ghast and (maybe) Nighthawk. Ghast can enable plenty of wincons if it sticks, and your own PWers do work while you sweep. Mana sinks like Sands of Delirium and Rakdos's Return are sweet with the Ghast.
Agreed, stay away from creatures in a control deck. All you need are Ghast and (maybe) Nighthawk. Ghast can enable plenty of wincons if it sticks, and your own PWers do work while you sweep. Mana sinks like Sands of Delirium and Rakdos's Return are sweet with the Ghast.




Wouldn't you rather just invest the mana into Nephalia Drownyard or Jace, Memory Adept instead of Sands of Delirium though?
Drownyard hurts the manabase by lowering the swamp count; if you're only splashing one color then it's fine, but beyond that it's dicey (i.e. Grixis can't include it). Jace is interesting, but he probably complements rather than competes with Sands.
The reason I have so many creatures is I've noticed many decks were just too fast. Typhoid rats/blood artist help me stay in the game until I can win (sometimes by mutilating the board w/ a couple blood artists out). Black doesn't have many solid life gain/kill cards atm like tendrils of corruption. Also gives some nice extort options w/ghast out. So its either my small creatures kill you eventually or removal is wasted on them until I play bigger ones.
The reason I have so many creatures is I've noticed many decks were just too fast. Typhoid rats/blood artist help me stay in the game until I can win (sometimes by mutilating the board w/ a couple blood artists out). Black doesn't have many solid life gain/kill cards atm like tendrils of corruption. Also gives some nice extort options w/ghast out. So its either my small creatures kill you eventually or removal is wasted on them until I play bigger ones.





Um... Vampire Nighthawk, Tribute to Hunger, Devour Flesh, Ultimate Price, Victim of Night, Murder, would all like a word with you.

EDIT: Also forgetting Tragic Slip, and Sever the Bloodline.


 
The reason I have so many creatures is I've noticed many decks were just too fast. Typhoid rats/blood artist help me stay in the game until I can win (sometimes by mutilating the board w/ a couple blood artists out). Black doesn't have many solid life gain/kill cards atm like tendrils of corruption. Also gives some nice extort options w/ghast out. So its either my small creatures kill you eventually or removal is wasted on them until I play bigger ones.





Um... Vampire Nighthawk, Tribute to Hunger, Devour Flesh, Ultimate Price, Victim of Night, Murder, would all like a word with you.

EDIT: Also forgetting Tragic Slip, and Sever the Bloodline.


 




Sorry i meant cards that are both life gain+kill in one. I just think typhoid rats are too good to not have atm.

The reason I have so many creatures is I've noticed many decks were just too fast. Typhoid rats/blood artist help me stay in the game until I can win (sometimes by mutilating the board w/ a couple blood artists out). Black doesn't have many solid life gain/kill cards atm like tendrils of corruption. Also gives some nice extort options w/ghast out. So its either my small creatures kill you eventually or removal is wasted on them until I play bigger ones.





Um... Vampire Nighthawk, Tribute to Hunger, Devour Flesh, Ultimate Price, Victim of Night, Murder, would all like a word with you.

EDIT: Also forgetting Tragic Slip, and Sever the Bloodline.


 




Sorry i meant cards that are both life gain+kill in one. I just think typhoid rats are too good to not have atm.





Thats pretty much what Vampire Nighthawk is and that is absolutely what Tribute to Hunger is.

Typhoid Rats is pretty bad honestly. There is a lot better things you can do at 1 mana for black. Duress, Appetite for Brains, and Tragic Slip are all better. Typhoid Rats can't even block Lingering Souls
I suppose. I guess I just like keeping duress/appetite in SB. Maybe ill try w/o the rats.
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