The 5E Forgotten Realms Pantheon

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The 5E Forgotten Realms Pantheon


I was asked to start a separate thread on this, so ok. From what we’ve heard all of the gods will be coming back in 5E. If that happens then that’s going to create a bit of a mess as some of those dead gods have portfolios which are now owned by other gods. Will they be assumed to share that portfolio, or will the old rules still be in force and will gods only be able to share portfolios so long as at least one of them is a Demigod/Exarch? So because I just like making lists (What? I find typing to be a relaxing exercise), I thought I’d comb through the Forgotten Realms deity list as best as I could and make adjustments here and there to some gods in order to make the whole pantheon fit together.


Note: This is done with the assumption that the previous godly rank system (Greater God, God, Exarch), will still be in place as well as the godly dominions (I personally prefer Exarch over Demigod as I wouldn’t mind seeing the occasional classical mythological style Demigod appear).


Amaunator (Greater God)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Bureaucracy, Civilization, Contracts, Law, the Midday Sun, Order, Rulership


Lathander (Greater God)
Neutral Good
Portfolios: Athletics, Birth, Creativity, Dawn, Renewal, Self-Perfection, Spring, Vitality, Youth


Myrkul (Greater God)
Neutral Evil
Portfolios: Autumn, Corruption, Decay, Dusk, Exhaustion, Old Age, Parasites, Undeath, Wasting


Amaunator shifts to Lawful Neutral, gains the Civilization portfolio, and his Sun Portfolio shifts to the Midday Sun. Lathander returns exactly as he was. Myrkul regains Autumn from Mielikki, all of his old unused portfolios, as well as Undeath.


All three are sun gods, but they represent different facets of the sun given their respective portfolios (Dawn, Midday, Dusk), not to mention the rest of their portfolios. Lathander is the god of birth, of new beginnings, of constant change. His role is to encourage creation, but will eventually abandon one of his creations in favor of something new. He’s the rising sun and so must always rise. Amaunator is the god of order, constancy, and the status quo. He’ll take that which Lathander creates and preserve it, keeping it forever the same, never changing. He’s the sun fixed at its highest point in the sky, unmoving, unchanging. Myrkul, however, is the god of decay and corruption. What Amaunator preserves he’ll want to tear down. He’s the setting sun, and as such Myrkul wants to see that things always come to an end, preferably a destructive one. All three feed off each other. Lathander creates, Amaunator protects, and Myrkul destroys, as Lathander looks to the ruins of what Myrkul’s destroyed and from there begins anew. That, I think, would be a new and interesting take on the concept of the Sun God.


Potential Servants of Myrkul
I imagine Myrkul building himself a new Bone Castle out in the Astral Sea. He may no longer be the God of Death but he would still be a terrifying figure. He could share that domain with several other gods.


Mask (God)
Neutral Evil
Portfolios: Intrigue, Shadows, Thievery, Thieves


Bhaal (God)
Lawful Evil
Portfolios: Assassination, Assassins, Blood, Poison, Violence


Moander (Exarch)
Chaotic Evil
Portfolios: Corruption, Decay, Rot, Rotting Death


Mask, upon his return to life, should regain the portfolio of Intrigue from Cyric. Assuming Gods still have to shelter in the domains of Greater Gods, staying with Myrkul is as good a place as any. One could see Myrkul allowing Mask free reign and not really being a threat to him (At least not how Cyric or Shar would be a threat to him), as Myrkul would probably find Mask’s activities amusing.


Bhaal can lay claim to the portfolio of Poison from Sseth, Zehir, Talona, or whomever else has it. Add in Assassination, Blood, and Violence, and he could come back as the god of assassins. Murder and Death would be nice for him, but they’re better off in the hands of Cyric and Kelemvor, so Bhaal can make do with the lesser portfolio of Assassination, which has a narrower focus than the more encompassing portfolio of Murder. Of course he could have both if he was an Exarch, but I personally believe that a more powerful Bhaal, one who’s closer to being on an even keel with both Bane and Myrkul without quite being there, is a better idea. In any case, I sincerely hope that the rumors are true and that all of the gods come back, because I’m eager to see the Dead Three together again. There’s so much regarding their mortal history which has yet to be explored, and I hope that the return of both Myrkul and Bhaal will serve as an impetus to the Realms development team to expand on that history some more (And yep, I read that recent Dragon, or was it Dungeon, article which shed some more light on their mortal lives).


As for Moander, as an Exarch he can share the portfolios of Corruption and Decay with Myrkul, while still maintaining his separate portfolios of Rot and Rotting Death. There’s no great need for him to be anything more than an Exarch, though. Though if he were to be a God than the portfolio of Rot alone would more than suffice for him.


DWEOMERHEART
Mystra (Greater God)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Magic, the Weave


Azuth (Exarch)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Mages, Spellcasters, Wizards


Savras (Exarch)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Divination, Fate, Truth


No surprises here save for Mystra’s alignment change, although my hope is that it’s the Midnight personality which is resurrected, if for no other reason than my distaste for the way she was killed. I strongly dislike the idea of Midnight being murdered by essentially what was her stalker. It’s way too much like a Lifetime movie, and a disgraceful end for her, so I’d like to see Midnight come back from that. She could change alignment to Lawful Neutral afterwards, but I’d prefer it if it were Midnight.


Leira (God)
Chaotic Neutral
Portfolios: Deception, Illusion, Mist


She gets Deception and Illusion back from Cyric, and regains the unused portfolio of Mist. The only question is where does she go? One potential home for her is in a rebuilt Dweomerheart with the above three. Illusion is one of the schools of magic, after all, so she’d be right at home alongside gods like Savras and Velsharoon. Alternatively, she could make her home in Myrkul’s domain along with Mask. Or maybe nobody really knows where she is? Maybe some believe she keeps a domain in Dweomerheart, and others believe that a portion of Myrkul’s domain (a remade Bone Castle or whatever you want to call it) is reserved for Leira’s use? Or maybe she’s hiding in Cyric’s domain of the Supreme Throne, invisible even to his eyes?


Velsharoon (Exarch)
Neutral Evil
Portfolios: Necromancy, the Undead, Undeath


Like Leira, he could stay either in Dweomerheart or make a home with Myrkul. 


THE SUPREME THRONE
Cyric (Greater God)
Chaotic Evil
Portfolios: Lies, Murder, Strife


He’s lost quite a few portfolios since the heady days of the 2nd edition Forgotten Realms immediately after the Time of Troubles, but I think Cyric could stand to lose more. He’ll be just fine without the portfolios of Deception, Illusion, and Intrigue. All that matters is that he keeps the portfolios which most define the sort of god which he is, and Lies, Murder, and Strife more than adequately serve to define him, as well as grant him more than enough power to still be a powerful god. He draws power every time someone on Faerun lies, commits murder, or whenever there’s any strife. He’ll be more than alright with just those three portfolios. 


CELESTIA
Torm (Greater God)
Lawful Good
Portfolios: Duty, Honor, Justice


Ilmater (God)
Lawful Good
Portfolios: Endurance, Martyrdom, Perseverance, Suffering


Bahamut (God)
Lawful Good
Portfolios: Courage, Trust, Wind, Wisdom


This is The Triad. Torm maintains Duty, one of his original portfolios, as well as Justice, the portfolio which he inherited from Tyr and which makes him a Greater God. I added Honor because it just makes sense, nevermind that reciting the words “Duty, Honor, and Justice” is completely fitting to the character of Torm.


Ilmater stays the same, whereas Bahamut has some differences. God of Good Dragons is pretty boring. Wisdom is great but it was the only good portfolio which he had so I thought it’d be nice if he also picked up Courage and Trust. That, in my view, makes up a very interesting Triad, the chivalrous knight leading the way, with the blessed martyr at one side and the ancient wise man at the other.


As for Bahamut, a strong following amongst Dragonborn would be nice. Gods can appear however they like, so why not have Bahamut take on different appearances to different worshippers? He could be a human in platinum armor to his human worshippers, a Dragonborn to his Dragonborn worshippers, a dragon to his dragon worshippers, and an Air Genasi (Given his association with wind) to his Genasi worshippers.


Helm (God)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Loyalty, Obedience, Protection


I think it’d be a good idea for Helm to pick up Torm’s old portfolios of Loyalty and Obedience. Helm’s always been the most faithful of servants, anyway, so why not? And they make for more interesting Portfolios than simply Guardians and Protectors, which seem redundant.


Tyr (Exarch)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Judgment, Law, Truth


I’ve argued this before and I’ll argue it again: Tyr’s always seemed like a god who should be in semiretirement and has always preferred to fulfill a much narrower role than that which is demanded of a Greater God. He’s more the god of the courts of law and criminal justice than he is the god of adventuring heroes. He could work as a rank higher, but the portfolio of Law is taken by Amaunator. His role should be in promoting a system of laws and fair and just systems of criminal justice, so given a role like that, he doesn’t really need to be more than an Exarch, which will allow him access to portfolios which other gods possess. That and as a god in semiretirement he could play a role to Torm similar to the role which Jergal serves with Kelemvor, that of the aged advisor.


Siamorphe (Exarch)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Nobility, Nobles, Rightful Rule of Nobility


Nobanion (Exarch)
Lawful Good
Portfolios: Good Beasts, Lions and Feline Beasts, Royalty


I think it’d be a good idea to put Siamorphe back in with the Triad. Simply put? Celestia’s a sausage fest. :P Seriously, though, the issues that drove Siamorphe to leave could be smoothed over and she could come back. If Amaunator needs a roommate then he could always bunk with Lathander. As for Nobanion, while he’s a god of intelligent beasts, he’s also a god of royalty. I think he’d fit in Celestia.


That raises a possibility, though. It was mentioned elsewhere that a female Paladin god would be a good idea, so maybe introducing one would be a good idea, even if she’s only an Exarch? There are two possibilities. 1) She’s a mortal who discovered the location of Chalsembyr. As a result she was elevated to godhood by Torm. 2) She’s the daughter of Torm and the Red Knight.


BANEHOLD
Bane and all the rest could stay the same save for the following differences.


Talona (God)
Chaotic Evil
Portfolios: Disease


She loses the portfolio of poison to Bhaal, but really, she has no need for it. The portfolio of Disease, alone, is more than enough to sustain her power as a God.


Fzoul Chembryl (---)
Lawful Evil
Portfolios: None


No longer a god of any sort and returns to being a mortal, although he could still be a Chosen of Bane.


Iyachtu Xvim (Demigod)
Lawful Evil
Portfolios: None


If all the gods are returning then ostensibly Iyachtu Xvim is returning as well. If that’s the case then I can’t really see a place for him amongst the pantheon. However, as I mentioned before I’d like to see a classical mythological version of a Demigod appear in the Realms, and that’s exactly what Xvim was early in his existence, so why not make him that again? In addition, why not let him make peace with his father, and have him perform an evil equivalent of the Twelve Labors of Hercules, which could be the restoration of Zhentil Keep? I don’t know about anyone else, but Zhentil Keep was one of my favorite things about the Forgotten Realms. In my mind, it was a defining characteristic of the setting. Without Zhentil Keep as an active participant in Realms events it simply does not feel like the Forgotten Realms, so in my view Zhentil Keep has to come back. However, they’re presented with the problem of how it can come back without Netheril coming back and squashing them twice as flat. So why not give Zhentil Keep its own epic hero to help them refound the city? Give them their own Perseus, their own Aeneas, their own Romulus. Give Zhentil Keep a demigod to lead them and help them rise from the ashes.


Now here’re a few stragglers to round out the list of gods which would need to be changed.


Sseth (God)
Chaotic Evil
Portfolios: Intelligent Snakes, Yuan-Ti, Ophidians, Renegade Spirit Nagas, Somnolence


Bhaal or no Bhaal, Sseth would still have to lose the portfolio of Poison as Talona and Zehir also have it. Aside from that, though, he’s alright.


Mielikki (God)
Chaotic Good
Portfolios: Dryads, Forest Creatures, Forests, Rangers


As mentioned earlier, Myrkul could reclaim his old portfolio of Autumn from her. Mielikki would be fine since, in addition to the very specific portfolios of Dryas, Forest Creatures, and Rangers, she’s still god of the Forests, which is in itself a pretty big deal.


I believe I’ve caught most if not all the contradictions with the exception of one big one.


Zehir (God)
Neutral Evil
Portfolios: Assassins, Darkness, Poison


I have no idea how this guy could work. Darkness belongs to Lolth, and there’s no way she should give it up to make room for him. Poison belongs to Talona and Sseth already, so he couldn’t keep that anyway. As for Assassins, is there any question that Bhaal would be the better god of Assassins? He’s the one with the history in the Realms, whereas Zehir was a core god who was included in the Realms after countless Realms gods were killed off only because someone at Bioware screwed up and made a Forgotten Realms computer RPG which used a core setting god. Hopefully the idea is to bring back all the gods, but must every god remain? Would it really be a bad idea to eject Zehir from the setting altogether? Is there a single Forgotten Realms fan anywhere who would lament his absence?


My personal preference would be to do something interesting with him. I imagine that a good number of Realms fans would like to see Bhaal come back, so why not have him come back in a big way? Zehir seems like the perfect sacrificial lamb, so why not have Bhaal return and assassinate Zehir, thus claiming the portfolios of Assassins and Poison from him in addition to any other portfolios which he may have already possessed? I know I’d appreciate one last bit of godslaying before Lord Ao puts the lid on that. And who better to be the last slain god than Zehir, who should’ve never been in the Forgotten Realms to begin with? And who better to do it than Bhaal, who hasn’t killed anyone in a long time and, with the return of the Tablets of Fate, won’t have another chance to kill anyone else again?


As I said, I seriously doubt anyone anywhere cares about Zehir. At the same time, there’re a great deal of fans who love Bhaal from both the old grey boxed set and the Baldur’s Gate games. So why not kill two birds with one stone and have Bhaal come back in a big way by killing off the one god who just can’t fit into the current Faerunian Pantheon?


Anyway, those’re my thoughts on how many of the gods in the Faerunian Pantheon could be adjusted in 5E to make room for all the returning gods should the rumors be true about all of them coming back. So thoughts? Opinions?

If all the gods are coming back from previous editions, and their portfolions now belong to another, such as Tyr's portfolios, then Tyr for instance would have to take agent of justice instead of justice ans he would then serve as he who carries out justice instead of teh god of justice.


Zehir is Bhaal, did not Bane give you the memo?





        
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Well, that's why I assigned him the portfolio of Judgment. There're some good cases, though, where some current gods would lose some of their current portfolios to a returning god. Cyric, for instance, is locked up in the Supreme Throne so may not be able to prevent a returning Leira from reclaiming Deception and Illusion (assuming she ever lost them in the first place and was ever even dead). And depending on what Paul Kemp might have up his sleeve for Mask in his novels, Mask may end up proving himself more deserving of holding Intrigue than Cyric.


And sorry. I'm not on Bane's speed dial.  
Zehir could be a God of Jungles.

Other thoughts I'd make Mykrul God of Undead, Curses, and Evil Artifacts.

Valeshroon I'd make God of Necromancers. Necromancers deal with death magic of many types, like cause fear, not just creating undead.

Mykrul build his Bone Castle in the Towers of Night, with Shar. It'd help balance out Selune and Sune bunking in the same dominion. Alernately Banehold, being buddies with Bane, although Banehold is pretty full.

Bhaal I see in Banehold or with Myrkul.

If the Dragonic Pantheon returns it's likely they will rebuild Dragon's Eerie, which Bahamut and Tiamat may wish to return too or not, or simple have portals too.

In a side not Bahamut had a unique Untheric form called Marduk (From the same RL Pantheon Tiamat originated from, Marduk slays Tiamat in those myths), who died during the TOTs, but Bahamut was raised later as his normal Bahamut form. Marduk fought during the Orcgate wars against the Orcish Gods. That in addition to his work as the Platnium Dragon. So Bahamut has a stranger history in the realms then in the 4e core.

Tyr I'd make God of Judges and Authority.

Fzoul I'd keep as a demigod of sicophants.

Xvim I'd make demigod of secret police (or realmsian stand in). He's Bane's son after all.

A question becomes what to do with other Pantheons like the Mulhorandi and Seldarine. I'd stay with if they're in a seperate Pantheon you don't have to worry about over lap which was the old rule.

Oh and kill the use of Exarch's, hate the term. In pre 4e Quasigod was what you called heroic divine blooded mortals. Quasigods had a divine rank of 0, which was still higher then true mortals who have no divine rank period. So hopefully we can restore the pre 4e ranks of Demigod/Lesser God/Intermediate God/Greater God.

Quasigod would makes a really cool divine class or speciality.
1. Ubtao is god of Jungles.

2. Addings Curses to Myrkul's portfolios is a pretty good idea.

3. Giving Tyr the portfolio of Authority is clever.

4. So long as Fzoul stays a god, given what we've heard about how the gods will be used in 5E, he can't be used as a villain. He needs to lose his godhood in order to become an active villain in Faerun again. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to see him back at the head of the Church of Bane in Zhentil Keep and working alongside Manshoon in the Zhentarim.

5. Good idea on how to make Xvim a workable god without taking Fear, Hatred, or Tyranny away from Bane, though I'm still rooting for the evil Bainite version of Aeneas.

6. Agreed on the non-human and Mulhorandi Pantheons. They should be treated as separate in order to allow overlap.

7. Quasigod doesn't sound as good as Demigod when it comes to the half-man/half-god type of being, but eh, I don't really care about terminology. Tongue Out All I know is that I'd really like to see D&D in general and Forgotten Realms in specific at least dip their toe into that particular area of classical mythology, with gods having children with mortals who then grow up to be great heroes or villains.
Alternative on Zehir if the dead gods are returning, then so is the idea of multiple pantheons, so both Zehir and Sseth could be members of the Saurruhk/Yaun-ti pantheon along with others Yaun-ti/Lizardfolk dieties. So Zehir could be basically the same, but for World Snake Pantheon, instead of mainstream Faerun Pantheon.

Remember pre 4e thier were both regional and racial pantheons are that was how they dealt with Greater Deities having overlap. Isis, Selune, and other deities were moon Goddesses, but they were all in seperate Pantheons and each had thier own unique twists.
Chessenta was really big into honoring Quasideities, but as the Realms verison of Greece that makes sense.

The problem with Exarchs is that it was used as a blanket term for everything, not just demigods, so I want to get rid of the confusion.

Demigods need to be able to grant thier own spells too.

And thank you for your insites on my ideas.

Ubatoa is the Primordial of Chult, everything in Chult is his Portoflio to the point were he'd even try to claim the souls of other beings faithful to other gods. Everything, not just jungles belongs to Ubatoa, mountains, coastlines, swamps, rivers, Jungles, everything. Ubatoa isn't worshipped in jungles outside Chult.

Not that it matters if one puts Zehir in a reptile pantheon.

In a side note this should resurrect some strange Gods, like from the Batrachi Gods, and abberant deities, and other monster Gods.
you killed Tyr, now you want him back Undecided

WotC's apparently decided that every god will be coming back. There're a few I don't think need to come back (like Tyr), and a few that're currently alive which don't need to be (like Zehir), but WotC's policy for 5E seems to be that they're all there, hence this thread.

In a side note this should resurrect some strange Gods, like from the Batrachi Gods, and abberant deities, and other monster Gods.

I seriously doubt the designers actually mean they're going to resurrect all deities, especially not those who perished prior to the ToT. They're more interested in reverting the pantheons to how they looked prior to the Spellplague, with perhaps some alterations. I mean, the batrachi gods were never big players in any edition of FR; I don't see reintroducing them as a big priority to the design team.

EDIT: Reading through Erik's comments on Candlekeep, it seems clear they aren't looking to reintroduce every deity under the sun... at least not initially.
erdana,Arial,Helvetica">erdana,Arial,Helvetica; font-size:small">When I say "core pantheon," I don't mean "most powerful gods" in the setting. (Heck, the most powerful gods in the Realms may very well be completely unknown by humans or us, the audience.)

What I mean is the most iconic, flavorful, and well known gods. This is the list you show new players in the Realms looking to play a divine-powered character. These are the gods you look at and say "these ARE the Realms."



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Board Snippets
147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)


DWEOMERHEART
Mystra (Greater God)
Lawful Neutral
Portfolios: Magic, the Weave


No surprises here save for Mystra’s alignment change, although my hope is that it’s the Midnight personality which is resurrected, if for no other reason than my distaste for the way she was killed. I strongly dislike the idea of Midnight being murdered by essentially what was her stalker. It’s way too much like a Lifetime movie, and a disgraceful end for her, so I’d like to see Midnight come back from that. She could change alignment to Lawful Neutral afterwards, but I’d prefer it if it were Midnight.


So thoughts? Opinions?




So there is no truth to the rumors that she'll be given an orange parka and renamed Kenny? The way Mystra/Midnight have been treated over the years she is essentially the Forgotten Realms version of Kenny.
Lawful Neutral is a return to the way it used to be in the old days.  Glad to see the return of the /real/ Mystra.


ALL HAIL AND PRAISE LORD CYRIC!!


 

HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

Only if he gets rid of Lolth and Corellon, otherwise screw him...
only if he gets rid of lolth thats fine, but I gots not much beef with corellon.

I prefer to ahve my elven characters worhsip other elven deities but... still.

screw cyric   
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I'm still amazed by the decision to concentrate so much power into a single god like they did with Cyric with the advent of 2E. He had, what, the powers of FOUR separate gods? Bane, Myrkuk, Bhaal, and Leira? It's pretty amazing, though, when you think about it. He's shed so much power that two other Greater Gods (Kelemvor, Bane) were able to rise to prominence using that lost power and he's STILL a Greater God. And as noted above he can still lose even more power, lose half his Portfolios, and still remain a Greater God based on the strength of the final three portfolios. Cyric's really full of himself, but wow. For a while there he really was the end-all and the be-all of deific powers in the Forgotten Realms.
Cyric is awesome like that!





HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

I like Cyric too, but if Bane and Myrkul, and Bhaal are all back, whats Cyric supposed to do?
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Suck wind in last place, as he always has, the obnoxious little twerp...

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

I like Cyric too, but if Bane and Myrkul, and Bhaal are all back, whats Cyric supposed to do?


Kill them of course...


HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

Suck wind in last place, as he always has, the obnoxious little twerp...



This, I've always disliked Cyric.  I'm just happy to see the return of Mystra.  No god or goddess of magic was just...wrong.
Suck wind in last place, as he always has, the obnoxious little twerp...



This, I've always disliked Cyric.  I'm just happy to see the return of Mystra.  No god or goddess of magic was just...wrong.



Instead of him crying in a corner, I want him to be torn into godly shreds and devoured by whatever foul forces exist in the Realms.  It would make things kind of come full circle, ya know?  Plus, I want to see Cyric wet his divine trousers at the sight of superiors taking their spot back from the whiny little usurper >.>

Crazed undead horror posing as a noble and heroic forum poster!

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

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Instead of him crying in a corner, I want him to be torn into godly shreds and devoured by whatever foul forces exist in the Realms.  It would make things kind of come full circle, ya know?

So... we let Kezef take care of him? I think that would be appropriate.

Anyway, I really hope Cyric doesn't hog the spotlight in 5E as he has done in the past. Same goes with Shar, who seemed to be pulling every string towards the end of 3E into 4E. Give them their due, but don't ignore the other malevolent deities in the Realms. Talona, Loviatar, Beshaba, Malar, Tiamat - I would love to see all of them be more involved in events and plots. Just avoid giving us an overload of one particular deity and all will be well. That's my hope, at least.

My Sig
Reality is but the sum total of all illusions. Proud Hand of Karsus, now and forever Mess with one Hand, mess with 'em all I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
"just do what LM the lord of magical might does, and you'll be fine" - sfdragon, 10/12/09
Board Snippets
147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
Looking at the possible Greater Gods of evil, we have Bane, Cyric, Gruumsh, Lolth, Myrkul, Shar, and Talos. It'd be nice if those six at least could receive roughly equal treatment in the evil department. Just about all of them represent different kinds of evil forces present in Faerun, so play it all up. A setting with multiple groups of villains is far more interesting than one with an overarching villain. Aside from their respective churches and any cultists which may follow them they also represent forces like Zhentil Keep and the Zhentarim, Orcs, Drow, the Undead, and Netheril. Let's see all of those groups and more be a major threat.

And of course that's just the Greater Gods. We still have Beshaba, Bhaal (hopefully), Garagos, Loviatar, Mask, and others. Hopefully their influence will also be felt on Faerun.
You forgot Ghaunadaur and Asmodeaus both Greater Gods. Asmodeaus is God of Sin and Devils and Ghaundaur is God of Slime, Abberants, and Abominations.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Forgotten_...

If they bring back all the Gods in the realms this is how big the Pantheon will be, the dead Gods on the list will be back as well.
Whoops, you're right. They both completely slipped my mind. So that puts the number of evil Greater Gods up to nine. But yeah, like the above seven, they're also represented on the Realms not only through their various churches but through other evil forces as well. Asmodeus through the infernal influence of the Nine Hells and its devils and Ghaunadaur through his abominations. That's an altogether wonderful diversity in villainy and I hope that the 5E Forgotten Realms developers will exploit that.
I dont think they are bringing all the dead gods back.



I think they are bringing all the gods, splitting thatm back apart from those who were conjoined and all, but as far bringing them all back, from what was said it seems like only a few dead ones might return.



I'd be happy with the return of mystra, Helm, mask, Eilistraee, vhaerun( not my favorite but....)  revealing Zhehir to be Bhaal and throw out the pol stuff(aka         the exarch,primal spirit, primordial etc stuff) 



could you imagine with the return of mystra, Cyric being freed jsut to turn around to see a shocking sight.

a strong warrior in imposing armor and a man dressed in leather.


"suprise , I bet you didn't expect to see me again," the man in leather states.

"Aren't you dead," cyric says


"I fool you there and the rest of toril," Bhaal states," you have something of mine."


"I'm bettter than you and I killed you once," Cyric boasts," and I'll kill you again."


"And that is not likely to happen," a disembodied voice states as a horned crown appears around cyric's brow.


"Whats this," Cyric looks around in confusion.


Throwing the crown off his head, the evil man smirks," Now I have something of his."


"Myrkul," Bane states.


"Yes," the lord of bones states as he blasts the portfolio of murder into Bhaal," and let all of toril quake in the knowledge that the dark three hae returned."



Dark three laughs as Cyric trapped in the crown of horns tries to comprehend what happened.


"We should deal with him first," Bane states.


"Bah, throw him in the hells," Bhaal smirks.


Myrkul laughs wickedly has he opens a gate before hurling the crown into the hells." You know, with his luck, he might try switching places wit ha devil ..."                                           
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....

HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

I dont think they are bringing all the dead gods back.



I think they are bringing all the gods, splitting thatm back apart from those who were conjoined and all, but as far bringing them all back, from what was said it seems like only a few dead ones might return.



I'd be happy with the return of mystra, Helm, mask, Eilistraee, vhaerun( not my favorite but....)  revealing Zhehir to be Bhaal and throw out the pol stuff(aka         the exarch,primal spirit, primordial etc stuff) 



could you imagine with the return of mystra, Cyric being freed jsut to turn around to see a shocking sight.

a strong warrior in imposing armor and a man dressed in leather.


"suprise , I bet you didn't expect to see me again," the man in leather states.

"Aren't you dead," cyric says


"I fool you there and the rest of toril," Bhaal states," you have something of mine."


"I'm bettter than you and I killed you once," Cyric boasts," and I'll kill you again."


"And that is not likely to happen," a disembodied voice states as a horned crown appears around cyric's brow.


"Whats this," Cyric looks around in confusion.


Throwing the crown off his head, the evil man smirks," Now I have something of his."


"Myrkul," Bane states.


"Yes," the lord of bones states as he blasts the portfolio of murder into Bhaal," and let all of toril quake in the knowledge that the dark three hae returned."



Dark three laughs as Cyric trapped in the crown of horns tries to comprehend what happened.


"We should deal with him first," Bane states.


"Bah, throw him in the hells," Bhaal smirks.


Myrkul laughs wickedly has he opens a gate before hurling the crown into the hells." You know, with his luck, he might try switching places wit ha devil ..."                                           



*wicked cackle*

Crazed undead horror posing as a noble and heroic forum poster!

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
Nice story sfdragon, but thats all it is a story, they could never get the jump on Cyric like that, especialy not in his own doamin, unlike the other "gods" Cyric was not content with the realm that came with his office, so he ventured into the Realms of Chaos and forged his own, all gods have a connection with their own planes, but with Cyric its even more so, he crafted the Supreme Throne himself, its as much part of him as his arm or leg, face it, as far as gods go, Cyric is the man!
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
all it was for was entertainment.




but cyric has intrigue and he would be to curious to avoid it.    
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Nice story sfdragon, but thats all it is a story, they could never get the jump on Cyric like that, especialy not in his own doamin, unlike the other "gods" Cyric was not content with the realm that came with his office, so he ventured into the Realms of Chaos and forged his own, all gods have a connection with their own planes, but with Cyric its even more so, he crafted the Supreme Throne himself, its as much part of him as his arm or leg, face it, as far as gods go, Cyric is the man!



Cyric was dumb enough to read the Cyrinishad, and was lackey to Shar to shank Mystra, /and/ take the fall for it while Shar skated off scott free.  I put no level of stupidity past Cyric.

Cyric was dumb enough to read the Cyrinishad

To excuse him a little: At this point no one knew what would happen from him reading his book himself. It was a unneccessary risk but by far not the worst a faerunian deity did.

And Mask read the book after knowing what happened to Cyric.


 

and was lackey to Shar to shank Mystra

Which we have no proof of at all.

We can't really say that anyone of them manipulated the other, since they both full well dearly wanted to do what they did together. None was tricked into something he/she wouldn't have loved to do.


Did Shar did trick Cyric into delivering the death stroke only a greater power of murder could deliver? Maybe, but it's not as if Cyric wasn't aching for the chance to strike that blow anyway.


Did Cyric trick Shar into provind him the drop on Mystra that enabled him to deliver the stroke? Maybe, but it wasn't as if Shar didn't ache to see Mystra slain anyway.


 

/and/ take the fall for it

Since he did it. And it's not that much of a fall. He can influence the realms just as much as any other deity, he just can't take a stroll through Toril for some time.

 

while Shar skated off scott free.

Because she didn't do any of the real work.

 

I put no level of stupidity past Cyric.

You did read all the old novels featuing Mask or the Dark Three (e.g. Bane in the Pools of [...] novels .. ouch!)
I put no level of stupidity past Cyric.

You did read all the old novels featuing any deity whatsoever.

Fixed.

Seriously, though. While Mask and the Big Three have all had their moron moments (I would personally say Bane's are the most painful to read, but YMMV), they are not alone. The majority of occasions when a deity appears in a Realms novel, s/he ends up looking like a buffoon. That's not to say Mask's, Bhaal's, Bane's, and Myrkul's follies weren't glaring (they were).

Hell, the Avatar Series has to take the cake for all-time worst representations of the deities. In addition to the aforementioned gods, we saw Helm (who is supposed to be one of the most vigilant deities in existence) reduced to being a gullible stooge, Mystra (whom one would think would be level-headed enough to recognize Ao's power) freaking out and deciding that she was too important to heed Ao's decree that "No gods allowed" means just that, Sune (a goodly, loving goddess, mind you) being disgusted at the thought of needing to cultivate and protect her faithful following to ensure her continued prominence in Faerun, etc.

We also have Helm teaming up with Talos in the Druidhome Trilogy. I suppose, in a way, that's a worthy successor to Bhaal's failure in the Moonshae Trilogy. Yeah, that brings back memories.

More recently...

The War of the Spider Queen didn't make Vhaeraun look particularly brilliant either ("Woohoo! Straight shot to Lolth! Time to die, Spider Qu- oh crap, I forgot about you, Selvetarm, Lolth's guardian and champion"). I don't even think I need to address the Lady Penitent and Empyrean Odyssey trilogies.

My Sig
Reality is but the sum total of all illusions. Proud Hand of Karsus, now and forever Mess with one Hand, mess with 'em all I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
"just do what LM the lord of magical might does, and you'll be fine" - sfdragon, 10/12/09
Board Snippets
147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
Ha, while I really liked the Gods as characters I admit the depictions aren't flattering or impressive most of the time. I mean your dealing with a cosmic being with untold power and then they get out smarted like a cheesy bond villians.

Could be worse, they could have been the Gods in the Hammer of the Gods episode of Supernatural, worst episode ever.

Back on topic, I actually felt bad for Sune in the TOTs. I hated Adon, he was such a self absorbed twit I kept hoping Cyric would kill him.

I mean the tool knew she was tossed from the heavens, her Godhood stripped from her, and her ability to grant divine spells only available to those close by.

I mean if Adon had a hard time with a scar on his face, imagine having Godhood stripped away, along with ones powers and perceptions, and oh and all your millions of worshippers are suffering and scarred and you can't do anything about it because your crippled and blind. And Adon's moopping because she won't heal his scar, never mind she can't.

Anyway the best depictions of Gods would be in Sands of the Soul/Simbul's gift for Sharess, as well as Paul S. Kemp for Mask/Shar. Both have subtly and cunning, no bumbling and they stay mostly in the background, working through thier agents.
If a auther has to ahve agod as a character in his or her book, they should only appear in a vision or dream sequence and not appear in avatar form.

or if they are a chosen, speak to taht caracter directly via mental deal, but never appear. 
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
 
and was lackey to Shar to shank Mystra

Which we have no proof of at all.

We can't really say that anyone of them manipulated the other, since they both full well dearly wanted to do what they did together. None was tricked into something he/she wouldn't have loved to do.


Did Shar did trick Cyric into delivering the death stroke only a greater power of murder could deliver? Maybe, but it's not as if Cyric wasn't aching for the chance to strike that blow anyway.


Did Cyric trick Shar into provind him the drop on Mystra that enabled him to deliver the stroke? Maybe, but it wasn't as if Shar didn't ache to see Mystra slain anyway.



If you read the Empyrean Odyssey, you will see that Cyric pretty much orchestrated the whole thing, Shar just stepped in to help him deal the final blow, as she had the most to actually profit from Mystra's death (i.e. leaving her the sole goddess of magic).
I'm okay with Helm and Mystra coming back, so long as they aren't Helm and Mystra. Now, stick with me and I'll explain.

I want Helm to come back, but I think it'd be nice if it was someone raised up to divinity by Torm. Someone such as... Kalen "Shadowbane" Dren. As for the new Mystra? Myrin. The "girl" Kalen has been watching over.

That, I'd be okay with.



Oh. And Hoar out from under the boot of Bane and become fully a God of Poetic Justice. Because seriously, the Realms needs a God of Karma. Tongue Out
smart paladin, we the FR universe regret to inform you that she has returned already and it is..........



Show
Mystra  after mystryl not midnight
   
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I want Helm to come back, but I think it'd be nice if it was someone raised up to divinity by Torm. Someone such as... Kalen "Shadowbane" Dren. As for the new Mystra? Myrin. The "girl" Kalen has been watching over.

I'm torn. On the one hand, Shadowbane is one of the coolest characters in the Realms. He would thus probably make an awesome deity, and is definitely a worthy successor to Helm. On the other hand, Shadowbane novels are awesome, and I foresee a problem if he gets elevated to divine status.

As for Myrin, I think I might ignore EE and go with that, because that does sound better. (Or I will just keep Azuth as the Lord of Dweomerheart, which is what I did in my game).
My Sig
Reality is but the sum total of all illusions. Proud Hand of Karsus, now and forever Mess with one Hand, mess with 'em all I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
"just do what LM the lord of magical might does, and you'll be fine" - sfdragon, 10/12/09
Board Snippets
147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
smart paladin, we the FR universe regret to inform you that she has returned already and it is..........



Show
Mystra  after mystryl not midnight
   


Well bugger. I should really get back into reading. The last ones I read were The Masked Witches: Brotherhood of the Griffon, Book IV (which was fun) and Brimstone Angels (which I loved). I was gonna read Shadowbane, but it's a E Book. Which is annoying. I want to hold the book in my hand!