DPR King Candidates 2.0

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I'm going to need to add a Revenant key element.

How are you using dancing weapons for every encounter.  You need to be able to do 7 encounters in epic.  At least that's the way we did it with pearl of power/ salve of power(?).
If this is only for 1 encounter, then it's as good as a nova.  If you want to purchase 7 of them you can count one for each encounter, but then you're not utilizing all those lovely minor actions.


7 encounters? I thought only 5 (I asked about that earlier and you never contradicted me).

I was going based off of what was in mellored's SeptBlade build, where he had 5 encounters worth of dancing weapons.

Anyway, if you look, I had purchased 25 of them, but I'm sufficiently under the money limit that I think I can buy 10 more if you insist (worst case scenario I'd just switch to +5 armor).

But just to clear things up: 5 encounters/day, or 7?
Is it say's your a half elf. Not revevant.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Is it say's your a half elf. Not revevant.


Haha, oops. I copied the text from my previous build and changed the relevant pieces (but forgot to change the race).

Fixed.
yeah, 5 is fine.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
EDIT: With the Dancing Weapon nerf, the correct number to use is the final "Variant 2" DPR of 560.3. This is a KPR of 2.12.


Okay, this build's tricks are a bit different than most others I have seen. It does still use a revenant avenger + dancing weapons chassis (because those things add to most everything)...but otherwise it's more unique.

Level 30 Build

Revenant (Mul), Avenger, Mul Battle Slave, Champion of Prophecy
Theme: Samurai

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 28, Con 15, Dex 14, Int 12, Wis 24, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 13, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8.

FEATS
Level 1: Berserker's Fury
Level 2: Rampant Fury
Level 4: Novice Power
Level 6: Heavy Blade Expertise
Level 8: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
Level 10: Adept Power
Level 11: Painful Oath
Level 12: Power Attack
Level 14: Death's Quickening
Level 16: Past Soul
Level 18: Deadly Rage
Level 20: Lasting Frost
Level 21: Primal Resurgence
Level 22: Hand of Divine Guidance
Level 24: Triumphant Attack
Level 26: Wintertouched
Level 28: Godsworn Radiant
Level 30: Ghostly Vitality

POWERS
Encounter: Fury's Advance, Soulforge Hammering, Challenge of Blades
Novice Power: Hurricane of Blades
Adept Power: Ancient Forebears' Rage

ITEMS
Vorpal Falchion +6, Ioun Stone of Might (epic tier), Executioner's Bracers (epic tier), Ring of the Radiant Storm (paragon tier), Ring of Giants (paragon tier), Gloves of Ice (epic tier), Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (epic tier), Battle Harness Starweave Armor +6, Life Charm +5, Symbol of Victory +2, Belt of Sonnlinor Righteousness (epic tier), Spark Slippers (paragon tier), Dancing Falchion +4 (25), Frozen Whetstone (heroic tier) (35), Salve of Power (heroic tier) (5), Scabbard of Sacred Might (heroic tier), Katar

In the first round of each encounter, move to a target, apply Oath of Enmity, and attack with Ancient Forebears' Rage.
In the next round, apply a Frozen Whetstone, attack with Challenge of Blades and Fury's Advance.
Next round, attack with Soulforge Hammering.
Finally, we are only left with Hurricane of Blades. Use it every single round (with Power Attack), and if you hit with the first 3 attacks then make attack 4 with a kick (an improvised unarmed attack) to deliberately miss. HoB is never expended (see the Notes at bottom).

Whenever you finally drop down to 0 or less HP, activate 5 dancing falchions.
Using AFR every encounter

How to use Ancient Forebears' Rage for 5 enc/day (or more, if you have multiple Rings of the Radiant Storm).

For the first encounter, you use it normally. With Primal Resurgence, it will be recovered as soon as you hit bloodied (we're already expecting to hit negative HP, so this is clearly going to happen).

Second encounter, use it normally. It refreshes at the end of the encounter (instead of gaining an AP) thanks to Prophetic Renewal.

Third encounter, start out wielding the katar (which was stored in the Scabbard of Sacred Might). Before you attack with AFR, activate the Scabbard's power. Use Power Attack to force a miss with AFR. Now, activate the daily power of the Ring of the Radiant Storm so that AFR is never expended. This process only fails 1 in 400 days, which means you only lose out on AFR for 1 in every 2000 encounters...that should count as being sufficiently "at-will."

Fourth encounter, use it normally. Refresh it with Prophetic Renewal.

Fifth encounter, use it normally.

Calculations were all done in Excel, so I'll just give general formulas I used.
Attack

all attacks: +15 level, +9 str, +2 triumphant attack, -2 power attack
vorpal: +3 prof, +6 enh, +3 feat, +2 CA (wintertouched) = +38
dancing:  +3 prof, +4 enh, +3 feat = +34
improvised: no additional bonuses = +24

crit chance (C%) = 1 - 0.9^2 = 0.19

hit chance (H%)
vorpal: 1 - C% - 0.25^2 = 0.7475
dancing: 1 - C% - 0.45^2 =  0.6075
improvised: 0.05^2 = 0.0025
Damage

RING OF THE RADIANT STORM
This is really hard to calculate directly...so I just wrote a program that output the average difference of one million pairs of damage rolls. It only applies on a hit with PO or on a crit (because of Godsword Radiant), and adds this much damage:
HoB hit: 30.26
HoB crit: 44.3
Rampage crit: 16.06
dancing hit: 2.52
dancing crit: 6.56

BASE DAMAGE
HoB attacks apply both the Vorpal property and the AFR effect, a Rampage MBA only gets to apply Vorpal, and dancing weapons can apply neither.
1[W] = 30 for HoB, 20/3 for Rampage, and 5 for dancing

all: +9 str, +3 weapon focus, +3 deadly rage, +5 ioun stone, +9 power attack
vorpal: +6 enh, +2 whetstone, +4 gloves, +5 shard, +5 lasting frost = +51
dancing: +4 enh = +33

PAINFUL OATH
If PO is triggered by a crit, then it only adds wis mod damage (because we get the radiant keyword anyway from Godsworn Radiant). However, if it's triggered by a normal hit, then we get to add our Gifts of the Queen set bonus and also a RotRS damage reroll.
damage = chance of hitting on HoB * (wis mod + chance of normal hit given hitting * (item set bonus + RotRS reroll bonus)) + chance of [missing all HoB and hitting on a dancing weapon] * (wis mod + chance of normal hit given hitting * (item set bonus + RotRS reroll bonus)) = 32.72163

CRIT DAMAGE
all: +3[W] high crit, +3d6 bracers, +2 Godsworn Radiant, +2 item set, +RotRS reroll bonus
vorpal:  +6d12 weapon, +12 ring
dancing: +4d6 weapon, +8 ring

HoB: 308.3
Rampage: 179.1055
dancing: 114.06

EXPECTED DAMAGE PER ATTACK
HoB 1 = 141.5495
HoB 2 = 141.5495
HoB 3 = 141.5495
HoB 4 = chance of missing on an earlier HoB * expected damage of the attack = 24.91631
Rampage = chance of having [at least one crit on first 3 HoB attacks OR [crit on HoB 4 AND one of the earlier HoB attacks missed]] * expected damage of the attack = 41.8179
each dancing weapon (there are 5) = 47.7939

DPR = 763.0738


Level 16 Build

Revenant (Mul), Avenger, Mul Battle Slave
Theme: Samurai

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 22, Con 14, Dex 13, Int 11, Wis 18, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 13, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8.

FEATS
Level 1: Berserker's Fury
Level 2: Rampant Fury
Level 4: Novice Power
Level 6: Heavy Blade Expertise
Level 8: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
Level 10: Lasting Frost
Level 11: Painful Oath
Level 12: Power Attack
Level 14: Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade)
Level 16: Devastating Critical

POWERS
Encounter: Fury's Advance, Inexorable Pursuit, Challenge of Blades
Novice Power: Storm of Blades

ITEMS
Jagged Fullblade +4, Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier), Ring of Giants (paragon tier), Gloves of Ice (paragon tier), Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (paragon tier), Battle Harness Githweave Armor +3, Amulet of Protection +3, Waistband of the Grappler (paragon tier), Frozen Whetstone (heroic tier) (35), Salve of Power (heroic tier) (5)
Same logic as the level 30 build, but no AFR, and using Storm of Blades instead of HoB. Otherwise, similar logic, so I won't type out the calculations.

DPR = 95.77109


Simplifications:
1) Ignored the fact that, on an accidental 4th hit with HoB (or 3rd with SoB), you deal some damage
2) Assumed one of the HoB attacks hit for purposes of maintaining frostcheese (chance of >0 hits is over 99.99%; this assumption was not made in the L16 build's calculations)
3) Treated Triumphant Attack as though it were always in play (chance of a crit is over 85% per turn)
4) Ignored the DPR change if you lose access to AFR or HoB/SoB (both extremely unlikely)
5) Only approximated RotRS instead of calculating it exactly
6) For the Level 16 build, assumed the enemy is a Solo (i.e. has a +5 bonus to saves against the Jagged Weapon's ongoing damage).

Notes

1) Technically, by RAW, a Vorpal crit deals infinite damage (you can read about this in excruciating detail here). However, this is clearly broken, and there's no point in optimizing a broken thing. So this build assumes that Vorpal crits are treated the way most people seem to treat them: it has no effect on base damage whatsoever.

2) Some might object to the way I'm refreshing HoB by saying "but HoB has 4 targets, not one!" This is incorrect. When used against only one creature, HoB has one target... if you read the relevant sections of the RC, you will realize that "attacks" don't have targets at all; powers have targets, and then attacks are made at them. So, as a power, if you're only attacking one creature, you only have one target.

This is further supported by the wording of HoB itself: it says that you repeat the attack against "the same target." Not "the same creature you targeted" or anything like that...you actually use the same target. As such, even one HoB miss is enough to count as "missing every target" (because there is only 1 target, and you missed it). Discussed here.

3) The chance of expending HoB is .00206, which means that it's expected to expend every 485 rounds. If it does expend we use a Salve of Power to get it back (this build has 5 of them). Assuming 100 rounds/enc (and 5 enc/day), that means the chance of running out of HoB on a given day is .0006777, or once every 1476 days. And the build can easily afford more salves (only limited by the fact that we get 9 surges/day).

(As a side note, saying that dpr calcs should assume infinite rounds is problematic because then a Great Hunger weapon would have infinite dpr)

 
VARIANTS for the non-turophiles:

1) Remove the revenant stuff.
Changes

Revenant(Mul) -> Mul

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 14, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8.

Belt of Sonnlinor Righteousness -> Waistband of the Grappler

Past Soul -> Critical Targeting
Death's Quickening -> Devastating Critical
Ghostly Vitality -> Font of Radiance

You only need 10 dancing falchions now.
DPR = 660.1878

2) Same as variant 1, but remove the dancing weapons altogether, because they're pretty cheesy on their own.

DPR = 560.3
I have a candidate for the Nova sectionSmile

Also, I came up with a L30 build with 1330 dpr...but it doesn't really use any "new tricks," it's just a combo of my last couple builds (the Ardent Champion build + the daily recharging of Champion of Prophecy to get Stone Tempest Rage for 18-20 crits). I'm not sure if it's worth writing it up, unless there is a particular interest.
I thought there was a new rule that prevented a character from having more than one of the same magic item?  I can't recall the rule, but I thought it came with the item rarity rules.
Well, it's more that the game went from:
1) You can craft or purchase whatever you want, but can't use more than a couple daily item powers
to
2) You can't craft or purchase almost anything, but you can use as many daily item powers as you want

So you have to deal with one restriction or the other So, yeah, any dancing weapon build fails even casual theory op, nevermind practical. 
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
I thought there was a new rule that prevented a character from having more than one of the same magic item?  I can't recall the rule, but I thought it came with the item rarity rules.


That's an official rule for LFR and a common house rule for any campaign using the rarity system, but it's never stated overtly as RAW. Generally, any GM who wants any degree of control over his or her players will use one of the two item limitations. So, as Mr. Richmond said, builds that rely on multiples of the same item (admittedly, my Monk build included) don't translate very well into a concrete setting. How well they work in theory op depends on the limitations of the theory; for DPR King, we currently have no limitations on multiple magic items.
Well, it's more that the game went from:
1) You can craft or purchase whatever you want, but can't use more than a couple daily item powers
to
2) You can't craft or purchase almost anything, but you can use as many daily item powers as you want

So you have to deal with one restriction or the other So, yeah, any dancing weapon build fails even casual theory op, nevermind practical. 


Yeah, that's why I tend to include non-dancing variants (though couldn't you use dancing weapons of a variety of different types to get around this? like, a dancing longsword, a dancing greatsword, a dancing falchion, a dancing fullblade...).

But like Illeist said, DPR King has no such limitations.
Well, it's more that the game went from:
1) You can craft or purchase whatever you want, but can't use more than a couple daily item powers
to
2) You can't craft or purchase almost anything, but you can use as many daily item powers as you want

So you have to deal with one restriction or the other So, yeah, any dancing weapon build fails even casual theory op, nevermind practical. 


Yeah, that's why I tend to include non-dancing variants (though couldn't you use dancing weapons of a variety of different types to get around this? like, a dancing longsword, a dancing greatsword, a dancing falchion, a dancing fullblade...).

But like Illeist said, DPR King has no such limitations.


I know that's not legal by LFR's ruleset, but I'm not sure how a home game would run that.
I wanted to keep this thread general enough to handle 
1) Item rarity is respected and dancing weapons would quickly never be found in the loot
2) Ignore daily power restriction as well as the item rarity joke
by having a key to indicate that you are not LFR legal, which shows how much importance I place on item rarity in 4e.  If it was established from the beginning that would be different, with a different baseline and items created adhering to that metric.  The mass "we want to hit the reset button but can't think of a better way to handle it" really upset me.  As a result I felt that supporting both LFR and "Item rarity is too much work for the DM" was the best approach.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Ninja: I haven't had the chance to look over the core HoB refresh mechanic, but I do notice something else I wanted to comment on. I see you are spending....3 turns before getting into your quoted at-will DPR. Unless I am mistaken, at-will DPR doesn't get to assume any setup rounds. You need to be able to throw down on round 1. I recall some of the assumptions being you start like 5 squares away (or adjacent, I don't remember on that), no setup rounds, and no assumed help from friends (except maybe flanking, but you get a note if you do).
Ninja: I haven't had the chance to look over the core HoB refresh mechanic, but I do notice something else I wanted to comment on. I see you are spending....3 turns before getting into your quoted at-will DPR. Unless I am mistaken, at-will DPR doesn't get to assume any setup rounds. You need to be able to throw down on round 1. I recall some of the assumptions being you start like 5 squares away (or adjacent, I don't remember on that), no setup rounds, and no assumed help from friends (except maybe flanking, but you get a note if you do).


Before now there has been no standard.  
You are granted 1 round for setup.  Assume you must retarget every round.  This means that unless your melee character can safely assume he's being fed foes, he cannot Oath and quarry every round because he must move to retarget and standard to attack.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
The standard had been "assume you're beating on Tofu with infinite hit points for infinite rounds", with various exceptions for damage sequences that assume a response by the tofu.  (Riposte type things.  The target is generally assumed to take the action sequence that will minimize your DPR while still contributing to victory for team monster)

So setup rounds get averaged away from the infinite rounds that follow.

Of course, as your DPR passes over the 3-turn-striker level and heads for 2-turn-striker level, this abstraction becomes increasingly inaccurate and irrelevant.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

I had forgotten about the frost-cheese builds (ie. most of them).  Perhaps we can safely assume you have 4 rounds to take him out before moving onto the next block and you have an infinite series of tofutm blocks that you have to churn through.  We need to maintain some semblance of reality.
What are the toughts on infinite series of 4 round bouts.  Spend your minor+move actions however you would like but melee characters must spend move actions to get to the next block unless they can easily get fed blocks.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I had forgotten about the frost-cheese builds (ie. most of them).  Perhaps we can safely assume you have 4 rounds to take him out before moving onto the next block and you have an infinite series of tofutm blocks that you have to churn through.  We need to maintain some semblance of reality.
What are the toughts on infinite series of 4 round bouts.  Spend your minor+move actions however you would like but melee characters must spend move actions to get to the next block unless they can easily get fed blocks.

We're assuming even-level defenses.... shouldn't we assume even level HP? I think your sig gives us the answer.
I had forgotten about the frost-cheese builds (ie. most of them).  Perhaps we can safely assume you have 4 rounds to take him out before moving onto the next block and you have an infinite series of tofutm blocks that you have to churn through.  We need to maintain some semblance of reality.
What are the toughts on infinite series of 4 round bouts.  Spend your minor+move actions however you would like but melee characters must spend move actions to get to the next block unless they can easily get fed blocks.

We're assuming even-level defenses.... shouldn't we assume even level HP? I think your sig gives us the answer.

How about an elite's HP to split the difference.

Deal X damage, then you need to retarget.

And yes that "hurts" frostcheeze, but it's been overrated.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

And to be honest, if your going to change the base assumptions, you might want to start a new thread, as basicly every build will need to be reworked, or at least recalculated.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I've wanted to have a way for an encounter based approach could compete with the at-willers.  We've always assummed infinite rounds, which isn't always the case in practice.  If it were you probably wouldn't have time to submite a build here.

The at-will builds can simply calculate what they would do to every foe they encounter and be proud of the fact that they can keep going till the DM stops.  The Encounter builds will walk through facing 3-4 foes and then median their damage over those 4 rounds.  Nova builds would fall through because we're using median instead of average.

Thoughts? 
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
How about...

How many turns does it take for you to kill...

1 solo
2 elites + 4 minions.
2 elites + 1 regular.
5 regulars.
20 minons.  (spaced in a checkerboard manner).

With short rest in between.
No need to adjust for blasters either.


Of course, it also makes calculations far more time consuming.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Ninja: I haven't had the chance to look over the core HoB refresh mechanic, but I do notice something else I wanted to comment on. I see you are spending....3 turns before getting into your quoted at-will DPR. Unless I am mistaken, at-will DPR doesn't get to assume any setup rounds. You need to be able to throw down on round 1. I recall some of the assumptions being you start like 5 squares away (or adjacent, I don't remember on that), no setup rounds, and no assumed help from friends (except maybe flanking, but you get a note if you do).


Well, if we're talking infinite rounds, then however many setup turns you take, it doesn't really matter in the end when it gets averaged out. I assumed about 100 rounds per encounter, just because.

I had forgotten about the frost-cheese builds (ie. most of them).  Perhaps we can safely assume you have 4 rounds to take him out before moving onto the next block and you have an infinite series of tofutm blocks that you have to churn through.  We need to maintain some semblance of reality.
What are the toughts on infinite series of 4 round bouts.  Spend your minor+move actions however you would like but melee characters must spend move actions to get to the next block unless they can easily get fed blocks.


I don't like the "infinite series" of blocks, just because technically all you need at that point is a Great Hunger weapon and you have infinite dpr. Also, it rules out using things like huge stockpiles of ammunition, or a build like my HoB/AFR one that can maintain dpr for hundreds of rounds but not "infinitely."

I'd prefer something like "100 round dpr" or the like, and against multiple enemies is fine. Is charging an acceptable way to get from one enemy to the next when that is necessary?

And to be honest, if your going to change the base assumptions, you might want to start a new thread, as basicly every build will need to be reworked, or at least recalculated.


I agree with this.

Also, in terms of using elite monster HP...I like it in theory, but it seems like it'd make calculations pretty tricky. Especially because now you have to know the variance of your damage; let's say you have two builds that both deal, on average, 1.5x monster hp, and neither one can retarget mid-round.

One of them always deals around that much damage.

The other one sometimes get as low as 1x monster hp, and then as high as 2x monster hp.

The second build will have higher dpr because it sometimes gets a one-shot. Calculating this is really complicated though.

Even though it's less accurate, I prefer something like the 4-round approach. 
How about...

How many turns does it take for you to kill...

1 solo
2 elites + 4 minions.
2 elites + 1 regular.
5 regulars.
20 minons.  (spaced in a checkerboard manner).

With short rest in between.
No need to adjust for blasters either.


Of course, it also makes calculations far more time consuming.


I'd like to avoid the "for the labs" approach for every candidate.  
I want facilitate the "My at-will damage is 3*.95(4.5+50) = 300 DPR, Here is my breakdown for damage"
I also want to include "But I would use encounter powers as they are strictly stronger than my at-will and combat is usually over by the time I need to use my at-wills"
The 4 round median is a good representation.  The at-willer can simply say my at-will = median.  The encounter guy can offset his at-will with his good encounter power selection. 

If I were to make a new thread (DPR king candidates 3.0) I will surely allocate 4-5 posts for myself instead of the 1 I did with this one. 
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I also want to either require candidates to convert their DPR to the number of rounds to kill an equal level monster like in my sig.  This way you could look at level 6 candidates and be impressed at the 2-round candidate, and be equally impressed by the 2-round striker in level 16.  Currently I see 50 DPR and I need to do a conversion to rounds for me to judge how good the DPR is.

Or I'll do the conversion myself. 
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I like pure-at-will DPR as a tool better than encounter DPR because it's "more stable" against the DM's response to optimized PCs.

A PC with at-will DPR of 30, but "real DPR" (my personal term for 4-round encounter DPR) of 200 is in a world of trouble when the 2nd wave of monsters appears, but the DM may not be aware of the issue.  A PC with at-will DPR of 90 and real DPR of 120 is in a much more comfortable place, and much less likely to get accidentially splattered.

So how about aiming at 8-10 rounds?  That's enough that nova-bursts can get averaged down, but infinite-length-DPR stunts can't really take over yet?  The main problem is just going to be difficulty to calculate.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

I also want to either require candidates to convert their DPR to the number of rounds to kill an equal level monster like in my sig.  This way you could look at level 6 candidates and be impressed at the 2-round candidate, and be equally impressed by the 2-round striker in level 16.  Currently I see 50 DPR and I need to do a conversion to rounds for me to judge how good the DPR is.

Or I'll do the conversion myself. 

 Agreed.

Normalized for the level is a good thing.



Oh, how about action points or dailies in a 4 round battle(s)?  Or do we draw the "it's to complicated" line at flat encounter.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I also want to either require candidates to convert their DPR to the number of rounds to kill an equal level monster like in my sig.  This way you could look at level 6 candidates and be impressed at the 2-round candidate, and be equally impressed by the 2-round striker in level 16.  Currently I see 50 DPR and I need to do a conversion to rounds for me to judge how good the DPR is.

Or I'll do the conversion myself. 

 Agreed.

Normalized for the level is a good thing.



Oh, how about action points or dailies in a 4 round battle(s)?  Or do we draw the "it's to complicated" line at flat encounter.


Daily powers are too situational.  Some daily powers affect the DPR for the rest of the encounter, other simply push the median a little closer to itself.  No daily powers.  Essential builds couldn't complete.
Action point is for the nova candidates. 
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I like the 10 round if for no other reason because its a nice, round metric (see what I did there?). I don't think going below 5 is a good idea, since at that point you are more or less in the encounter nova territory (especially when we are already granting a round of setup followed by a round of boom). Perhaps I'm wrong, but I always felt the who point of the at-will DPR wasn't to measure what a build could expect to average on any given encounter, but what they can expect to do at a bare minimum, all other resources expended.
How about if/when I create a new thread and if I want to support encounter power based candidates that I take a poll for the number of rounds to set the threshold.  Too low and I favor encounter power candidates and trivial encounter length, too many(10) and I favor at-willers and boss fights.  This poll will be in the form of


  • How many rounds does a typical encounter last?  

  • How many rounds does your typical boss fight last?  

  • How many rounds would you calculate average overall DPR on?



That way we can get a feel for the minimum (typical), maximum(boss), and preferred (how many rounds would you).
I will then follow the steps of senators ignore it all and base it on my last game.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I like the 10 round if for no other reason because its a nice, round metric (see what I did there?). I don't think going below 5 is a good idea, since at that point you are more or less in the encounter nova territory (especially when we are already granting a round of setup followed by a round of boom). Perhaps I'm wrong, but I always felt the who point of the at-will DPR wasn't to measure what a build could expect to average on any given encounter, but what they can expect to do at a bare minimum, all other resources expended.

I think the point was to include (encounter) nova damage, and avoid setup rounds.  To get a more "realistic" comparison.

So 4 rounds (no setup) to deal as much damage as you can.  No dailies, no AP's.
Normalized to rounds per kill.

Total / 4 / (8*lvl+24).
err, that can be simplified.
Total / (32*lvl + 96)

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Heh, you should name the new thread TPK (turns per kill) kings. Laughing

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I like the 10 round if for no other reason because its a nice, round metric (see what I did there?). I don't think going below 5 is a good idea, since at that point you are more or less in the encounter nova territory (especially when we are already granting a round of setup followed by a round of boom). Perhaps I'm wrong, but I always felt the who point of the at-will DPR wasn't to measure what a build could expect to average on any given encounter, but what they can expect to do at a bare minimum, all other resources expended.

I think the point was to include (encounter) nova damage, and avoid setup rounds.  To get a more "realistic" comparison.

So 4 rounds (no setup) to deal as much damage as you can.  No dailies, no AP's.
Normalized to rounds per kill.

Total / 4 / (8*lvl+24).
err, that can be simplified.
Total / (32*lvl + 96)


Total would allow nova people to be comparable to at-willers.  Something that I think would result in alot of hatred.
Encounter candidates
(8*lvl+24) / Median damage of N rounds.  
At-willers it's just  
(8*lvl+24) / DPR 
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Mello: if that is the plan, then ye. I agree. I was still working under the assumption of differentiating between nova dpr and at-will.

Borg: Funny. If I can through out an early vote, I would suggest the following. Instead of the current at-will/nova distinction, require king builds to submit to metrics: their encounter nova (maybe 2-4 rounds), followed by a pure at-will dpr that would come after the nova and last infinity turns. This would give several benefits. 1) Direct comparison of how quick builds can go boom or sustain their power in a grind. 2) Allows for a psuedo-setup for both nova andat-will (since the at-will still benefits from everything that occured during nova). 3) Clearly highlights if a build has weakspots (can't pop a bad right-here-right-now when necessary / can't do anything after gibbing one or two). 4) Would most accurately model how the build would perform at a real table (assuming a slightly unreal generic encounter).

It would add a little extra effort on the part of submitters, but not terribly much. Plus, it will greatly open up the optimization space, so I feel the people who do participate in these shenanigans already will hardly even notice.

You could even include the normalized number of standards killed after x rounds. So say we get 4 nova turns to burn encounters, then 6 rounds of at-will, we then also include over that 10 round period how many mobs we can expect to drop (or any other number of rounds. I feel the at-will should be about half-again as long as the burst, but that's my preference. So like 2/3, or 4/6. I'm sure others might want a 50/50 split.)
Total would allow nova people to be comparable to at-willers.  Something that I think would result in alot of hatred.

Why would you think that?  It seems like a good thing to me...

Not that i'm telling you what to do with your awsome thread or anything.  

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Total would allow nova people to be comparable to at-willers.  Something that I think would result in alot of hatred.

Why would you think that?  It seems like a good thing to me...

Not that i'm telling you what to do with your awsome thread or anything.  


Using total / 4 means you're calculating an average, and average is biased to outliers (nova).
Median would force nova people to be in a seperate category all themselves.

I feel that nova and sustained DPR are very different representations of a striker's capability to do his job.  Throwing them into the same basket is like comparing apples to oranges.  Using LDB's encounter nova sequence to increase his total, and thus average, DPR does not represent well how this build would do against a block of tofu.  While it's true that X damage dealt in round 1 accounts to the total damage dealt as much as the Y damage dealt in round N, but X damage in round 1 is much more important than the Y damage in round N.  Nova is very important in ending encounters, but should not be mixed with sustained DPR.  Median is the happy middle ground to allow encounter power based candidates to compete with at-will people.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
I personally like both Mello and Mojo's thoughts...

I don't think there should be such a distinction between a nova build and an at will build - after the nova, the build needs to be able to put out enough at will to be playable, and likewise, a build with decent at will (but which can't compete with a nova build over 4 or 5 rounds) is nowhere near as good at the table as one is led to believe.

If a build can at-wil 80 DPR, and has zero nova capability (so 80 DPR is it, forever), and you compare it to a build with 500/4 round nova damage, and then 60DPR at will afterwards... well in any real world table the nova build is superior.

Also, if it is to be truly at-will, I don't think any setup rounds should be allowed. If it requires set-up, it really isn't "at-will" because you simply cannot do it without said setup (which could be prevented for any number of reasons) and is thus situational.

4 rounds may be a bit light; but then again maybe not - I think 5 or 6 is closer to a real world average in my experience over the past 4 or 5 years...but 4 is common enough that those 5, 6, 8, and even up to 10 round combats which raise the average up from 4 are rare enough that they aren't nearly as important/significant to a real world table.

So, have the 4 round AVG damage, and the 10 round AVG damage, as well as 'At Will' or 'infinite' damage after that. Using the random numbers I used above, the 80/rnd build with no nova potential would be 320 (80/rnd) | 800 (80/rnd)| 80/rnd, while the nova build would be 500 (125/rnd) | 860 (86/rnd) | 60/rnd. And no, those numbers aren't based on any actual builds, just random numbers I pulled out of a random orifice.

It would be much more useful to the casual Op'er who is looking for a build to play.
So I have been sitting on a level 16 build. I continued the riposte style of my previous builds, but switched it up with some White Lotus variety. I also might've stole some goods ideas from the previous king of 12 and 16, the Archer (Painful Oath & Pelor's Sun Blessing are just insane). I really haven't had the chance to sit down and write it all up, but after today's talk of possibly switching everything up, I thought I really ought to post the build before the format doesn't matter anymore. The build successfully utilizes crit-fishing, multi-attacks, and frost/radiant cheese. All I am missing is a little bit of charge-cheese and maybe some revenant/dancing weapons to hit absolutely every damage boosting trick there is. But those will have to wait till the 24 and 30 variants to squeeze those in.

Lvl 16 Half-Elf Avenger Morninglord 24 Wis 18 Dex

Dilettante- Eldritch Strike, Censure- Pursuit
Feats- Adept Dilettante, Cunning Stalker, Mark of Finding, Two-Weapon Fighting, White Lotus Riposte, Versatile Master, Painful Oath, Two-Weapon Opening, Lasting Frost
Items- Pelor's Sun Blessing, Bracer's of Mighty Striking (paragon), Ring of Giants, Gloves of Ice, Melegaunt's Darkblade Greatsword +4 with Shard of Merciless Cold (paragon), Radiant Gauntlet Axe +3 with Shard of Radiance (paragon), Frozen Whetstones (heroic)

Some assumptions:
-Your target is only adjacent to you and you have them oathed.
-At 100g a pop and a minor action, you can afford to apply a Frozen Whetstone to the greatsword every combat at the start. I like being able to throw up this damage from the start, so no whetstone on the gauntlet axe, though. If you wanted to assume you added it on a later round, it would add 2.642 DPR.
-Assuming frost vulnerability from the start is the norm here, so I went ahead and did the same. If you miss your target or attack a new one, subtract 4.689 from the expected damage.
-Utilizing a bit of cheese with the guantlet axe; doesn't require proficiency (so I just lose the +2 prof bonus). Keeps hands free to hold/use other things. While I do not get the bonus damage from TWF (since TWF specifies a weapon in each hand), it qualifies for TWOpening, which only specifies mainhand/offhand weapons. So when I crit with greatsword, I let go of it with my OH as a free action and make my OH attack with the axe, followed by using another free action to regrab the greatsword. This isn't absolutely necessary for the build, it just so happens to be the most elegant at tying several elements together with the limited resources available at 16 that I am trying to cram in. If there is a qualm with the build, I anticipate it being here.
-For WLR, I have made a couple of assumptions. 1) It can stack from making multiple successful attacks against the enemy, each then applying an effect that deals x damage if the target tries to attack me. 2) That the auto damage from WLR (as a no action) will resolve after the immediate interrupt granted by WLMR, potentially adding 1 or 2 additional hits, each applying another iteration of WLR that will resolve after the interrupt. Honestly, this is a very small fraction of the DPR, so if a point of contention, it wont effect much. All it really does is make it an extremely bad choice for the enemy to choose to attack you, meaning the OA attack is the default option.

Two Weapon Opening Eldritch Strike
+20 Attack (8 Lvl, 7 Wis, 3 Enh, 2 CA) v AC 30 | Base Accuracy 55%
OoE Double Roll: Crit [1-(0.95*0.95)] = 9.75% | Hit [1-(0.45*0.45)-crit] =  70%
d8+34 (7 Wis, 3 Enh, 4 Itm, 7 Plr, 3 RS, 10 VlnR) [38.5] | 48+3d6 [58.5] Crit
0.7*38.5 + 0.0975*58.5 = 26.95 + 5.704 = 32.654

Eldritch Strike
+24 Attack (8 Lvl, 7 Wis, 4 Enh, 3 Prof, 2 CA) v AC 30 | Base Accuracy 75%
OoE Double Roll: Crit [1-(0.9*0.9)] = 19% | Hit [1-(0.25*0.25)-crit] =  74.75%
d10+51 (7 Wis, 4 Enh, 4 Itm, 7 Plr, 7 PO, 10 VlnR, 2 FW, 2 GI, 3 SMC, 5 LF) [56.5] | 69+4d6 [83] Crit
0.7475*56.5 + 0.19*(83 + 32.654) = 42.234 + 21.974 = 64.208

OA / WLMR
0.9375*64.208 = 60.195

Preliminary DPR 124.403

Now we get into the bonus damage based on the monster's choice of taking the WLMR and however many WLR procs, or, trying to escape and triggering the bonus to damage from Censure of Pursuit being added into the OA and your expected damage on the following turn.

OA (+8 to all damage till end of your next turn)
We will calc by taking chance OA hits plus chance OA crits and OH hits. Since the OA/Main attack are the same, we will then double this to get the total added damage if the bad decides to draw the OA.
0.9375*8 + 0.19*0.7975*8 = 7.5 + 1.212 = 8.712*2 = 17.424

WLR (7 damage of the same type as attack when target attacks you)
Since the initial attack is both cold and radiant, we get to tack on 15 damage from the vulnerabilities, 10 from the OHs. And since we are doing damage to a target vuln to radiant, we also get to tack on another 7 from Pelor's boon to all of them. To calc, we will take damage for that iteration times the chance the first hit, plus chance WLMR hit, plus chance that either drew a crit, plus chance both drew a crit.
0.9375*29 + (0.7974*0.9375)*29 + (0.19 + 0.7475*.19)*29 + (0.19*0.19)*29 = 27.188 + 21.679 + 9.629 + 1.047 = 59.543

Final Expected DPR
141.827 (draw OA) / 183.946 (attacks back)

If anyone sees any mistakes or has any questions, please let me know. I do not doubt the likelihood I goofed somewhere on some math, since there was a ton of it that was a bit complicated. But assuming it wasn't a massive, gross error....I am pleased with the new king.
Just out of curiousity, in the current DPR King rules, are items like Pelor's Sun Blessing allowed? I was purposefully avoiding it, but I guess there was no reason to think I had to.


In terms of the 4-round median...consider this nova:
round 1: pure setup
round 2: activate a "until EoNT" power (like OoE via Disciple of Divine Wrath), do tons of damage
round 3: do tons of damage
round 4: do normal at-will damage

I think a 2-round-long nova of this kind is actually pretty common, and it'll affect the median by a bit (and you can get away with having that setup round because it doesn't affect the median at all).

Maybe you actually want this to be the case, because you want to let novas have an effect...I'm just pointing out the possibility. I would recommend a slightly higher number of rounds (even just 5 would do) to avoid these types of issues. Otherwise, MC avenger is half as good as actually being an avenger for most characters.

In general, I get the idea behind using the median, but I think "median of 4 rounds" will just make people optimize toward the median (e.g. with setup rounds so that the damage is "created" on one turn and then dealt later, or by moving a power to a different turn so the median goes up even though you're dealing exactly the same amount of damage) and you'll again end up with candidates that don't represent normal play. You're forgetting the type of people who are going to be making these builds

The average is, I think, a more accurate representation of what you can do. Maybe a 6-10 round average. Fewer rounds are more representative of typical combat, more rounds show how reliable your damage is.

...Though I don't feel like 6 rounds, whether average or median, can really be called "dpr" anymore. But "Damage Kings" is an interesting optimization problem of its own.
With a few hundred, possibly even a couple of thousand, hours of game time these past few years, fairly equally divided between DM and player, and slightly biased towards home play vs. LFR play, but also fairly even... I'd say in my experience 4 rounds is an accurate assumption of encounter longevity. Even at a table of non-optimized characters, who weren't used to adventuring with one anoher, 3-4 rounds is the most common duration I have seen. The ocassional 2-round, 5-round, and the rare 6-10 round encounters exist, but are not what I would consider 'normal'.

That's just based on my experience, though - but since I wasn't the one who initiated the idea of a 4-round encounter, obviously others feel it is normal as well.
Just out of curiousity, in the current DPR King rules, are items like Pelor's Sun Blessing allowed?

Sure.  Plenty of builds use it.

With a few hundred, possibly even a couple of thousand, hours of game time these past few years, fairly equally divided between DM and player, and slightly biased towards home play vs. LFR play, but also fairly even... I'd say in my experience 4 rounds is an accurate assumption of encounter longevity. Even at a table of non-optimized characters, who weren't used to adventuring with one anoher, 3-4 rounds is the most common duration I have seen. The ocassional 2-round, 5-round, and the rare 6-10 round encounters exist, but are not what I would consider 'normal'.

That's just based on my experience, though - but since I wasn't the one who initiated the idea of a 4-round encounter, obviously others feel it is normal as well.

We're talking about highly optimized strikers here.

If anything 4 is high.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

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