Hi all,I’ve created a level 16 version of Arrow for the new king of DPR at that level. I just love archers and want to show that they can compete with their melee cousins. The build concept is very similar to the level 12 version, however changing the paragon path is essential for the level 16 feature of Morninglord. Features:Radiant Hunter adds Radiant damage for Morninglord feature32 Frozen Whetstones adds Cold damageCombat advantage and Cold vulnerability through frost cheeseRing of Radiant Storm allows re-rolls on all damage rolls 116.4 DPR – Arrow (level 16) – [1, 6, 8]Attack and Damage Show Twin Strike +28 to hit vs 30 AC +8 Level +7 Dex +3 Prof +4 Enhance +2 Expertise +2 Prime Shot +2 CA +55.5 Damage +6.5 Superior Xbox (+1 ring of the radiant storm) +4 Enhancement +5 Lasting Frost +10 Morninglord feature +3 Pelor’s Sun Blessing +4 Bracers of Archery +3 Steady Shooter +3 Syberys Shard of Radiance +2 Gloves of Ice +2 Frozen Whetstone +2 Prime Shot Weapon +4 Battle Fury Stance +5 Called Shot +2 Set bonus (Gifts for the Queen) 90% Chance to hit for 55.5 damage 5% Chance to crit for 72.5 damage 5% Chance to miss Chance for 1 hit: 89.3% Chance for 1 crit: 9.8% DPR per Attack (0.9*57.5+0.05*74.5) = 53.6 DPR (x2) DPR from Quarry (0.893*9+0.098*12) = 9.2 DPRTotal DPR = 116.4 Arrow level 16 Character Build: Show ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======Arrow, level 16Human, Ranger/Fighter, MorninglordHybrid Ranger Option: Hybrid Ranger ReflexHybrid Talent Option: Ranger Combat TalentRanger Combat Talent Option: Prime Shot (Hybrid)Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort FINAL ABILITY SCORESSTR 11, CON 15, DEX 24, INT 11, WIS 16, CHA 9 STARTING ABILITY SCORESSTR 10, CON 13, DEX 18, INT 10, WIS 13, CHA 8 AC: 25 Fort: 22 Ref: 27 Will: 22HP: 103 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 25 TRAINED SKILLSAcrobatics +20, Athletics +13, Nature +16, Perception +16, Stealth +20, Thievery +20 UNTRAINED SKILLSArcana +8, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +11, Endurance +10, Heal +11, History +8, Insight +11, Intimidate +7, Religion +8, Streetwise +7 POWERSBasic Attack: Melee Basic AttackBasic Attack: Ranged Basic AttackHuman Racial Power: Heroic EffortHunter's Quarry Power: Hunter's QuarryFighter Attack: Combat ChallengePaladin Utility: Shroud of ShadowRanger Attack 1: Twin StrikeFighter Utility 2: Battle Fury StanceMorninglord Attack 11: Pure GlowMorninglord Utility 12: Rising Sun FEATSLevel 1: Weapon Proficiency (Superior crossbow)Level 2: Weapon Focus (Crossbow) retrained to Pervasive LightLevel 4: WintertouchedLevel 6: Crossbow ExpertiseLevel 8: Walker of the Dark PathLevel 10: Hybrid TalentLevel 11: Lasting FrostLevel 11: Steady ShooterLevel 12: Called ShotLevel 14: Radiant HunterLevel 16: Prime Quarry ITEMSPrime Shot Superior crossbow +4 x1Bracers of Archery (paragon tier) x1Ring of the Radiant Storm x1Crown of the Brilliant Sun x1Siberys Shard of Radiance (paragon tier)Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3)Gloves of Ice (paragon tier)Frozen Whetstone (heroic tier) (32)====== End ======Edits:1. Illeist made a good point below. I swapped out Weapon Focus for Pervasive Light to ensure each attack gains the benefit of the radiant vulnerability. I'm not clear on the keyword/damage type rules so this way there should be no question that the damage works.2. Fixed the quarry 2d6 average damage roll from 7 to 9 since it can be re-rolled if desired as it's part of the radiant attack.
I’ve created a level 16 version of Arrow for the new king of DPR at that level. I just love archers and want to show that they can compete with their melee cousins. The build concept is very similar to the level 12 version, however changing the paragon path is essential for the level 16 feature of Morninglord.
116.4 DPR – Arrow (level 16) – [1, 6, 8]
Attack and Damage
Twin Strike +28 to hit vs 30 AC +8 Level +7 Dex +3 Prof +4 Enhance +2 Expertise +2 Prime Shot +2 CA +55.5 Damage
90% Chance to hit for 55.5 damage 5% Chance to crit for 72.5 damage 5% Chance to miss Chance for 1 hit: 89.3% Chance for 1 crit: 9.8% DPR per Attack (0.9*57.5+0.05*74.5) = 53.6 DPR (x2) DPR from Quarry (0.893*9+0.098*12) = 9.2 DPR
Total DPR = 116.4
Arrow level 16 Character Build:
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Arrow, level 16
Human, Ranger/Fighter, Morninglord
Hybrid Ranger Option: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Hybrid Talent Option: Ranger Combat Talent
Ranger Combat Talent Option: Prime Shot (Hybrid)
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 15, DEX 24, INT 11, WIS 16, CHA 9
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 13, DEX 18, INT 10, WIS 13, CHA 8
AC: 25 Fort: 22 Ref: 27 Will: 22
HP: 103 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 25
Acrobatics +20, Athletics +13, Nature +16, Perception +16, Stealth +20, Thievery +20
Arcana +8, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +11, Endurance +10, Heal +11, History +8, Insight +11, Intimidate +7, Religion +8, Streetwise +7
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Hunter's Quarry Power: Hunter's Quarry
Fighter Attack: Combat Challenge
Paladin Utility: Shroud of Shadow
Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike
Fighter Utility 2: Battle Fury Stance
Morninglord Attack 11: Pure Glow
Morninglord Utility 12: Rising Sun
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Superior crossbow)
Level 2: Weapon Focus (Crossbow) retrained to Pervasive Light
Level 4: Wintertouched
Level 6: Crossbow Expertise
Level 8: Walker of the Dark Path
Level 10: Hybrid Talent
Level 11: Lasting Frost
Level 11: Steady Shooter
Level 12: Called Shot
Level 14: Radiant Hunter
Level 16: Prime Quarry
Prime Shot Superior crossbow +4 x1
Bracers of Archery (paragon tier) x1
Ring of the Radiant Storm x1
Crown of the Brilliant Sun x1
Siberys Shard of Radiance (paragon tier)
Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3)
Gloves of Ice (paragon tier)
Frozen Whetstone (heroic tier) (32)
====== End ======
1. Illeist made a good point below. I swapped out Weapon Focus for Pervasive Light to ensure each attack gains the benefit of the radiant vulnerability. I'm not clear on the keyword/damage type rules so this way there should be no question that the damage works.
2. Fixed the quarry 2d6 average damage roll from 7 to 9 since it can be re-rolled if desired as it's part of the radiant attack.
Dumb question: why do the rogue builds assume that the riposte strike will trigger? I suppose in a 1:1 fight monster has to attack? thanks!
Was looking over the build (trying to see what I need to aim for the lvl 16 slot) when I noticied a few things regarding the item build. I was under the impression that the generally accepted rule used the method for creating a new character at higher than lvl 1 and then liquidating those items for the gp value to purchase your DPR gear. For lvl 16, that'd come to 160k gp. This setup has two 17s, one 16, two 14s, and an 11 for a total gp value 216k. There is also a boon, which is usually under DM purview only. I tried looking for a gear rule, but there are a ton of posts to sift through. I thought I recalled there being a spot on the front page, but I didn't see it. I also noticied the key legend is missing from the front page as well. Anyway, just trying to find out what the accepted DPR King method is (whether the Arrow needs to trim back a little or if this opens up gear options).
I've altered the level 16 version of Arrow and his DPR has a significant boost. I adjusted his equipment to fit within the 160,000g budget of a newly generated level 16 character, added a theme and changed the hybrid class.New level 16 DPR = 141.0 DPR See the link below for the details:community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...Also Borg, if you could, please update my name to the correct (miss)spelling of Annihilation for the level 16 post, thanks! I'll be working on level 24 and possibly 30 variations at some point in the future although it's extremely difficult to compete with the melee crew as there is no easy access to an at-will 3rd attack for ranged characters.
dang it, that's another great point. I'll need to revisit those feats.
Sorry, but there is actually a few extra things you might want to revise/clear up on the Archer:
-I was confused when I didn't see Gloves of Ice on your gear list. I see you had it on the dmg calc, so I think you just forgot it.
-What are the feats Initiate of Faith, Radiant Hunter, and Pervasive Light doing for the build? Painful Oath is already adding radiant keyword (plus dmg) and all your damage automatically is radiant, so Radiant Hunter and Pervasive Light do nothing.
-In the same vein, I saw you added Weapon Focus(Bow) to your dmg calc, but its not on your feat list. For that matter, neither is Lethal Hunter. I went ahead and subbed those two in when I crunched some numbers.
-You are double dipping on vulnerability bonuses on your Quarry and Painful Oath bonus damage. Sorry, but that doesn't work since they are bonus dmg and not their own self contained instance of dmg.
-As was already noted, your fey pet and several features do not interact. Bow Expertise and Sly Hunter require absolutely no creature be adjacent to your target for their dmg bonuses. Prime Shot, Prime Shot Weapon, and Called Shot can function with the pet, bet that would require the archer to be adjacent and draw some OAs. For simplicity, I dropped the fey beast for the numbers below.
-Avenging Resolution does not add a flat +1 to the average dmg. The real average is only 6.75 (add all possible rolls and divide by 12 to double check).
So I ended up with +24 to attack with d12+46 for an average of 52.75 at a .7 hit rate. You will crit .05 of the time for 66+4d6, or an average of 80. All told, each attack will average 40.925 dmg, doubled for 81.85.
Now, for quarry and Painful Oath, the best way to calc their contribution (since they both trigger on your first hit, we will count them together) is to take your total chance of hitting per turn and critting per turn along with the average damage bonus. So, you will hit at least once 84% of the time and crit once 9.75%(quarry specifically states when you use a power that let's you make multiple attacks, you can chose which it applies to. Always chose the one that crits, if any), doing 13 extra damage on a hit and 20 on a crit. This means you add an extra 12.87 from them a turn. Altogether, this nets you 94.72 DPR.
(Sorry for the formatted, posted from mobile.)
I don't have the builder in front of me, but two things I noticied right off the top:
-Painful Oath does extra damage to your first hit (just like quarry). Extra damage is lumped in with all your other damage bonuses for the same attack. If it did x amount of damage (and not extra damage), then it would count as its own damage instance and trigger vulnerability and the boon. But since it is extra damage, the most it will ever do is you Wis mod (+4).
-How are you getting Battle Fury Stance? That is an unleveled utility. Power swap feats require the utility swapped in to have a level. The only way to get around this is PMC, since it allows you to pick an at-will power without ever referencing level.
I'm pretty sure extra damage is a separate damage calculation
I am of the opinion that extra damage is a part of the original damage roll and thus does not trigger vulnerabilities. No sane DM would allow it as such and I request that it be recalculated as such.For some reason I can't seem to edit my first post. Perhaps I need to migrate some more of my updates to my second post. If only I could edit it.
I was thinking that was one of the slayer stances. I will have to look at it. A free +4 dmg on a hit for fighter MC and a feat isn't the worst use of resources if you already have everything else.
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
Is there a reason I don't see callidyrr dragoon used more in these? It gives you a free bastard sword or fullblade at lv1. Builds like the 1st lv Warlock|Executioner seem like they could use it.
hm.. I didn't catch that, yeah the wording is "martial melee weapon", if that should be "military melee weapon" then that's pritty worthless.
how about fey beast taimer owlbear? Charging into ca every turn doesn't seem harder then getting the enemy in the owlbear aura.
Start at or below 0 hit points. [Using soulfang to assure this]
From Superior Will, make save vs. daze with +9. [background+2, focused mind +4, horreb cube +2, theme +1]To Hit: +34 v. Ref (vs 36) = 95% chance to hit; 10% chance of crit.
Avg Regular Damage 54 Avg Crit Damage: 76
Standard: Miss with Avalanche of Fury (+22 - 98% chance). Triggers Star Favored Champion feature, letting me basic attack as a minor. Avalanche of Fury is both reliable and comes back if you miss the second attack roll.
Move: Divine Bolts
Minor: Divine Bolts
Move (Ghostly Vitality): Divine Bolts
Minor (Ghostly Vitality): Divine Bolts
Minor (Death’s Quickening): Divine Bolts
10 attacks X 52.4 damage = 524 damage per round (262 single target)
The Chiller, level 24
Revenant, Invoker/Ranger, Crimson Hunter, Star-Favored Champion
Hybrid Ranger Option: Hybrid Ranger Fortitude
Covenant Manifestation Option: Manifestation of Wrath
Hybrid Invoker Option: Hybrid Invoker Will
Choose your Race in Life: Half-Elf
Background Benefit: Scorned NobleTheme: Chevalier
STR 10, CON 18, DEX 24, INT 13, WIS 24, CHA 12
STR 8, CON 14, DEX 15, INT 11, WIS 17, CHA 10
AC: 30 Fort: 31 Ref: 38 Will: 39
HP: 121 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 30
Acrobatics +27, Endurance +23, Nature +25, Perception +25, Stealth +25
Arcana +13, Athletics +14, Bluff +14, Diplomacy +16, Dungeoneering +19, Heal +19, History +13, Insight +19, Intimidate +18, Religion +13, Streetwise +14, Thievery +19
Chevalier Attack: Valiant Charge
Revenant Utility: Dark Reaping
Hunter's Quarry Power: Hunter's Quarry
Seeker Feature: Inevitable Shot
Star-Favored Champion Feature: Sign of Challenge
Invoker Attack 1: Divine Bolts
Ranger Attack 1: Fox's Cunning
Invoker Attack 1: Silent Malediction
Seeker Attack 1: Elemental Spirits
Ranger Utility 2: Crucial Advice
Invoker Utility 6: Demand Justice
Ranger Utility 10: Prime Shift
Crimson Hunter Attack 11: Ravaging Shot
Crimson Hunter Utility 12: Hunter's Mobility
Invoker Attack 13: Seal of the Heretic
Ranger Attack 15: Blade Cascade
Ranger Utility 16: Curving Shot
Ranger Attack 19: Threefold Assault
Crimson Hunter Attack 20: Bloody Despair
Ranger Utility 22: Master of the Hunt
Ranger Attack 23: Avalanche of Fury
Level 1: Staff Fighting
Level 2: Hybrid Talent
Level 4: Staff Expertise
Level 6: Superior Will
Level 8: Primal Sharpshooter
Level 10: Wintertouched
Level 14: Primal Eye
Level 16: Death's Quickening
Level 18: Superior Reflexes
Level 20: Power of Skill
Level 21: Ghostly Vitality
Level 22: Focused Mind
Belt of Sonnlinor Righteousness (paragon tier) x1
Dice of Auspicious Fortune
Stone of Wind
Horreb Ritual Cube
Rovikar's Dagger +2
Bracers of the Perfect Shot (epic tier) x1
Eagle Eye Goggles (epic tier) x1
Frost Quarterstaff +5 x1
Gloves of Ice (epic tier) x1
Amulet of Double Fortune +5 x1
Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (epic tier)
Any Soulfang====== End ======
You can't really cancel the fail out with the crit. You need to actually model the expected DPR for each outcome by the odds it will occur. Just like how we model expected damage/odds for a single attack. Also, while a very low chance (0.05^3 = 0.000125), there is the possibility for failing 3 death saves and just being dead. And since dead zeroes out all further DPR, this statistically sets your DPR to 0.