Forum Reorganization--Preliminary Outline

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It's time to look at reorganizing the forums.


Back in April, Wrecan opened up a thread to kick around different organizational ideas. That thread generated a host of good ideas. We took those, melded them with our own, and churned out what you see below.


This is not a final outline—it's a starting point for you to offer more feedback. We want to combine and streamline wherever possible, with the aim of making it easier to find the type of conversation you want. With that as a guiding principle, we've pared down to this outline. I'd like to get it even smaller, but we don't want to be so vicious that no one recognizes the place.


A few explanatory notes and questions we'd really like feedback on:


What's a Player to Do? is a prime candidate for folding into 4E General Discussion. It's kept separate here because WaPtD is fairly busy, and we don't want to overload 4E General. That doesn't alter the fact that those two forums have a lot of overlap.


Astrid's Parlor is folded into 4E General. AP was strong for a while, but its traffic has fallen and we feel its audience would be best served by joining the main forum.


There was discussion of combining the D&D and M:tG off-topic areas into a single forum outside the brand categories; they're off-topic, after all. For now, though, we've kept the OTT as-is.


We considered combining all of the D&D Previous Editions forums into a single Vintage forum, since some of them don't get much use, but decided instead to separate by worlds.



  • Looking to Play D&D?

    • Organized Play

    • Living Forgotten Realms

    • RPG Gamer Classifieds

    • Play-by-Post (including the Virtual Table)

    • Core Coliseum



  • D&D Community

    • 4E General Discussion (combines Astrid's Parlor)

    • 4E Rules Q&A

    • What's a Player to Do?

    • Character Development

    • 4E Character Mechanics (combines Strikers, Controllers, Defenders, Leaders, Multiclassing and Rituals, Equipment & Magic Items)

    • 4E Character Optimization

    • What's a DM to Do? (combines Races and Monsters and Combat, Traps, Terrain, and Tactics)

    • Off-Topic Tavern



  • Campaigns

    • Homebrew Campaigns

    • 4E Core World

    • Forgotten Realms (combines FR General, Running the Realms, and Realmslore)

    • Eberron (combines Eberron Lore and Running Eberron)

    • Dark Sun

    • Gamma World



  • D&D Products

    • Reviews and Projections (enfolds Future Releases)

    • Errata (combines all errata forums)

    • Dragon and Dungeon online (combines Dragon/Dungeon General and Dragon/Dungeon Article Discussion)

    • Online Tools (combines DDi Announcements, DDi General, Character Builder, Monster Builder, Technical Discussion, and Digital D&D)

    • Board Games (combines Castle Ravenloft, Wrath of Ashardalon, Legend of Drizzt, and Conquest of Nerath)

    • D&D Miniatures, Skirmish game



  • D&D HQ

    • Community Business

    • GSL



  • D&D Vintage (reorganizes conversations by world rather than by rules chapter)

    • Vintage General Discussion (for all rules discussions)

    • Birthright

    • Dragonlance

    • Greyhawk

    • Mystara

    • Planescape

    • Spelljammer

    • d20

    • Other RPGs




Steve
If your only tool is a warhammer, every problem looks like a gnoll.
The only suggested changes I have at this time are:


  • Change: "Vintage General Discussion (for all rules discussions)"

    • to: "Vintage Rules Discussion"

    • It says everything the explanatory note says without needing an explanatory note.



  • Move: D&D General

    • To: the bottom of that section

    • To minimize the amount of accidental cross traffic.



Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
Whose lousy idea was it to reorganize the forums!

Oh... it was mine...

I generally like what you've done.  i have a few questions...


  • I assume the "Looking to Play D&D" forums will actually be links to those areas?  Or are we creating new forums to be the repository and directory to other areas?

  • Will Character Development, 4E Character Mechanics, and 4E Character Optimization be subforums of What's a Player to Do?  (I hope you say "yes"). 

  • Move What's a DM to Do? above What's a Player to Do?, like it is now.

  • "Campaigns" should be "D&D Campaigns" just for consistency.

  • Move 4e General Discussion to the bottom of D&D Community

  • Move Off-Topic Tavern to the bottom of D&D HQ

  • I disagree with Seeker that "Vintage General Discussion" should be renamed.  While rules would be discussed there, it's not the only thing that would be discussed there.  I assume, for example, that house rules could be discussed there, as well as table management issues, or locations to find out-of-print items.

  • Think about renaming "Reviews and Projections".  I have already twice mistakenly read "Reviews and Rejections".  How about "Previews, Reviews, and Requests"?

I like the new reorg 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter




  • I assume the "Looking to Play D&D" forums will actually be links to those areas?  Or are we creating new forums to be the repository and directory to other areas?




I'll echo this question - the Core Coliseum (and most/all of the other PbP groups in my sig) could benefit greatly from having a spot in the forums again - but I definitely don't want to move from being a group (we lost a lot of people from all of the forum reorgs, reconstructions and moves - I don't want to move again and lose what small community I have).
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Blue Moon Aurora is looking for some fresh blood to populate their forums. Home of the Duet and West Pacific Supers!
Check out the other PbP games around:
Real AdventuresPbP HavenThe Guild House
Garic's CityMap of the PlanesD20 Modern
Castle of FunTerisia City and Fan FictionGleemax Roleplaying
Coalition War GameParanoia ParadiseMagic Puzzles, Fun, & Games!
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"Campaigns" should be "D&D Campaigns" just for consistency.

I'd call it "D&D Campaign Settings" or "D&D Campaign Worlds" myself.

I like the reorg chart otherwise.

Question: Will a re-org involve thread deletion? More to the point: if the three Realms forums are rolled into one, will that necesitate deletion of all threads from those three forums; deletion of some; no deletion?

Thanks for taking the time to work on this Huscarl and Co.


Question: Will a re-org involve thread deletion? More to the point: if the three Realms forums are rolled into one, will that necesitate deletion of all threads from those three forums; deletion of some; no deletion?

Thanks for taking the time to work on this Huscarl and Co.




Thats really needs to be answered escpially sicne oyur planning to roll of the d20 forums into one,instead of just leaving them alone

ThorvaldHafgrimsson wrote:
Life is full of choices. Sometimes you make the good ones, and sometimes you have to kill all the witnesses.
NastasiaLorn; wrote:
But then you have to pay the liability insurance.
A note about character and world creation
Show
Character and world creation are a form of expression. The point is that some people don't have much to say...
57949688 wrote:
Why doesnt anyone ever sig my qoutes!?
On the subject of who post in the Off-Topic Tavern:
57131438 wrote:
most of them are bored, immature adults.
Offical troller of the House of Trolls
We won't be deleting any threads, AFAIK. We should be able to combine forums without losing anything. The last thing we want is a reprise of the d20 fiasco from a few years ago.  

More responses will be forthcoming when I have a bit more time.

Steve
If your only tool is a warhammer, every problem looks like a gnoll.
We won't be deleting any threads, AFAIK. We should be able to combine forums without losing anything. The last thing we want is a reprise of the d20 fiasco from a few years ago.  



Then i suggest leaving the d20 forums as they are instead of combining them

ThorvaldHafgrimsson wrote:
Life is full of choices. Sometimes you make the good ones, and sometimes you have to kill all the witnesses.
NastasiaLorn; wrote:
But then you have to pay the liability insurance.
A note about character and world creation
Show
Character and world creation are a form of expression. The point is that some people don't have much to say...
57949688 wrote:
Why doesnt anyone ever sig my qoutes!?
On the subject of who post in the Off-Topic Tavern:
57131438 wrote:
most of them are bored, immature adults.
Offical troller of the House of Trolls
One more question... what's happening to the Homebrew Forum?  Is it melding into Homebrew Campaigns or What's a DM to Do?
I would very much like House-Rules and Homebrew to remain its own forum.

You could make it a sub-forum of something else, but that misses the fact that it covers all different sorts of homebrew material, and this caveat also applies to merging it into Homebrew Worlds or What's a DM to Do? also misses out on some ot its content. It is currently separate from Campaign and Adventure Worshop specifically pecause it covers homebrew that has nothing to do with specific campaign settings. It also wouldn't be appropriate to merge it into What's a DM to Do? because it covers material that is intented for and often designed by players. Granted, the DM would still have to look it over and approve its use in his or her game, but that doesn't make it DM specific content.

You could also split it up, but that would mean that the homebrew material would be scattered and therefore more difficult to hunt down.

I really think that it is distinct enough to warrant its own forum, even if the traffic is lower than your criteria would otherwise allow for.

Nothing.

That is all.

ummm noy sure I agree with putting all the setting forums in a single forum for each setting.

dont care to much for subscribing to individual threads either 

a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....


  • D&D Vintage (reorganizes conversations by world rather than by rules chapter)

    • Vintage General Discussion (for all rules discussions)

    • Birthright

    • Dragonlance

    • Greyhawk

    • Mystara

    • Planescape

    • Spelljammer

    • d20

    • Other RPGs




Steve

Character Optimizations should remain separate.  They aren't world specific, nor are they truly "rules" discussions.

"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls


  • Looking to Play D&D?

    • Organized Play

    • Living Forgotten Realms

    • RPG Gamer Classifieds

    • Play-by-Post (including the Virtual Table)

    • Core Coliseum






I would be interested to know how the LFR section works with regards to the LFR Group and how the Organized Play forum works with regards to the D&D Encounters forums on the D&D Group. My guess is the LFR admins would not want the old threads moved over (if I understand correctly, they have been trying to get the old RPGA section cleaned out). This might also impact Organized Play. Please do check with them.


If this is re-directs, it may be worth considering programs like Ashes of Athas, Lair Assault, etc. However, I think a thread similar to the one I started on EN World could handle that. I do think that the entirety of organized play should be captured. Also, before the RPGA threads are deleted some of those threads explaining how to get started should be copied and then re-written. There is still an incredible amount of confusion out there.




  • Campaigns

    • Homebrew Campaigns

    • 4E Core World

    • Forgotten Realms (combines FR General, Running the Realms, and Realmslore)

    • Eberron (combines Eberron Lore and Running Eberron)

    • Dark Sun

    • Gamma World




Can these be organized alphabetically with Core World first and Homebrew last? It would seem to provide the best utility to me.

Thanks!

Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).




  • D&D Community



    • 4E General Discussion (combines Astrid's Parlor)

    • 4E Rules Q&A

    • What's a Player to Do?

    • Character Development

    • 4E Character Mechanics (combines Strikers, Controllers, Defenders, Leaders, Multiclassing and Rituals, Equipment & Magic Items)

    • 4E Character Optimization

    • What's a DM to Do? (combines Races and Monsters and Combat, Traps, Terrain, and Tactics)

    • Off-Topic Tavern



  • Campaigns

    • Homebrew Campaigns

    • 4E Core World

    • Forgotten Realms (combines FR General, Running the Realms, and Realmslore)

    • Eberron (combines Eberron Lore and Running Eberron)

    • Dark Sun

    • Gamma World





I'd keep the forum combining as in the outline, but would prefer ordering in the categories closer to what it is now. Move 4e Character Optimization to third in the list, like it is now. I navigate mostly by the drop-down menu at the bottom of the pages, and I like the short drag-through from 4e General to CharOp.

Also, I agree that the campaigns list should be altered. The 4e Core World should definitely be first, and Hombrew last. I'm fine with the others in their proposed positions, as Forgotten Realms will probably get more traffic than Eberrron or Dark Sun. 
Looks good to me.

HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

I'd be inclined to put Gamma World under the "D&D Products" header rather than the "Campaign Worlds" header.

"Character Development" probably ought to have a different name to clarify its purpose as a theme forum as opposed to Character Mechanics. ("Development" is unhelpfully vague and even in the current structure results in people posting character mechanics stuff there from time to time.) CharOp might be made a subforum of CharMech.


"What's a Player to Do?" and "What's a DM to Do?" probably ought to be spliced and merged. The rules-related stuff (combat, equipment, multiclassing, etc) already falls under Rules and/or Character Mechanics, and the rest - player and DM alike - consists of campaign troubleshooting questions, which a single "Campaign Troubleshooting" (or equivalent) forum would cover just as well. (It might also result in more balanced responses to some of the the questions...)

Does the Vintage section really need a separate forum for each setting? Could a single "Vintage Setting Discussion" forum (along with the "Vintage Rules Discussion") not work just as well and be less bloaty?
I personally like keeping Player and DM troubleshooting separate. I come to each forum looking for different ideas.

I do think it is worth having separate sections for each Vintage setting. Keep in mind Dark Sun used to be in that category and then had a setting book for 4E. It would be a nightmare to bring those old threads back into a new category if a setting is released. (And, yes, the old posts do get referenced fairly often in the Dark Sun forum).

Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).



  • Move: D&D General

    • To: the bottom of that section

    • To minimize the amount of accidental cross traffic.






 If we're going with the outline posted, General Discussion should be second to last - the OTT should be the last one in that section...

 Also Character Development shouldn't come before the mechanics forums or else it'll end up flooded by people looking for CharOp and posting build questions that should be in the mechanics forums...


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I am very curious how the Living Forgotten Realms board on this list relates to the Living Forgotten Realms group and its forum (community.wizards.com/lfr)? As Alphastream mentioned, we have made that the official site for discussion, and rarely if ever visit the RPGA boards anymore. Personally I have no big issue with expending it a bit, but in all honesty, I prefer discussions to remain focussed on one place.
"What's a Player to Do?" and "What's a DM to Do?" probably ought to be spliced and merged. The rules-related stuff (combat, equipment, multiclassing, etc) already falls under Rules and/or Character Mechanics, and the rest - player and DM alike - consists of campaign troubleshooting questions, which a single "Campaign Troubleshooting" (or equivalent) forum would cover just as well.


I disagree.  Players and DMs often have very different issues with regard to campaign and table management and the tools available them to solve issues.  DMs are odten the ones deciding what sort of campaigns run, while players are most often struggling to fit into the vision of the rest of the group. 

Does the Vintage section really need a separate forum for each setting?


Yes.  The fans of each setting are quite distinct.  Also, if Wizards decides to Fourthify a campaign world (as they did with Dark Sun) they can just move the section from Vintage to 4e.

Also, just to clarify... are the Legacy Forums getting archived somewhere?
Does the Vintage section really need a separate forum for each setting?

Yes.  The fans of each setting are quite distinct.  Also, if Wizards decides to Fourthify a campaign world (as they did with Dark Sun) they can just move the section from Vintage to 4e.

The topics currently discussed in various boards are also quite distinct, but if the reorganization has ideals like merging low-activity boards, the question is not whether the topics or fans are merely distinct, but whether or not they individually generate enough activity to justify a separate board.

As for edition updates to a campaign world, if a vintage section for a specific campaign world includes any discussion of the relevant rules elements from earlier editions (or other details specific to the world in a particular edition), it wouldn't be directly transferable to a more recent edition.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
if a vintage section for a specific campaign world includes any discussion of the relevant rules elements from earlier editions (or other details specific to the world in a particular edition), it wouldn't be directly transferable to a more recent edition.


But the discussions that didn't involve rules would be directly translatable, and that's most of the discussions that take place on campaign world forums.  We've dealt with this nightmare before, when there was a consolidation briefly of certain campaign worlds, and then a reversal, and lots of threads got lost.  I don't want to go through that again.  I do think each world should remain its own forum.

This reminds me though, that there should be an "Other Published Worlds" forum in the Vintage section to accommodate obscure settings like Council of Wyrms, Rokugan, and Lankmar, and worlds published by third-parties
But the discussions that didn't involve rules would be directly translatable, and that's most of the discussions that take place on campaign world forums.  We've dealt with this nightmare before, when there was a consolidation briefly of certain campaign worlds, and then a reversal, and lots of threads got lost.  I don't want to go through that again.  I do think each world should remain its own forum.

The lore of campaign worlds also undergoes changes from edition to edition, and the rules are often connected to that lore.  Any discussion of the world in relation to a newer edition will inherently be generating its own content based on the most recent iteration of lore and rules or referring back to earlier lore that isn't sourced from the boards in the first place.

The potential of performing a merger that is rejected and then losing something in a reversal exists for any given merging of boards, no matter what their content or subject.  The fear that "something might go wrong" isn't a solid argument against merging particular boards.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
The fear that "something might go wrong" isn't a solid argument against merging particular boards.


It is when it's a specific consequence that's we've actually experienced and know it's likely we will experience it again.  As it is, if we had done this before the release of Dark Sun, a lot of Dark Sun resources would have been lost.  We know that D&D will sometimes bring back a prior setting.  We don't have that concern with the other forums that are being merged, like Astrid's Parlor, and the role-specific forums.
I would request some subforums in this area:


  • D&D Products     

    • Reviews and Projections (enfolds Future Releases)

    • Errata (combines all errata forums)

    • Dragon and Dungeon online (combines Dragon/Dungeon General and Dragon/Dungeon Article Discussion)

    • Online Tools (combines DDi Announcements, DDi General, Character Builder, Monster Builder, Technical Discussion, and Digital D&D)

    • Board Games (combines Castle Ravenloft, Wrath of Ashardalon, Legend of Drizzt, and Conquest of Nerath)

    • D&D Miniatures, Skirmish game



  • Board games should be split into D&D Adventure Cooperative games (Castle Ravenloft, Wrath of Ashardalon, Legend of Drizzt) and D&D Large Scale Combat (Conquest of Nerath)
    Putting them together is like discussing Clue and Risk in the same place.


    D&D Miniatures and the new Skirmish game should be seperate. I think the Skirmish Game is going to attract new players and they might be quickly overwhelmed and confused with the discussions of 1e and 2E DDM.

    It isn't perfect, but it is much, much better than what we have now.  Anything that gets all errata to one forum will be an improvement.

    Minor suggestions: Can we get a better name than character mechanics?  It seems a bit vague to me.  I have no idea what name would be better.

    Another forum in D&D community called "what type of PC should I play" or something similar might be a good addition.  That is one of the most common new threads, but it gets asked in both the Charop boards and the defender/striker/leader/controller boards and occasionally in general.
    The fear that "something might go wrong" isn't a solid argument against merging particular boards.


    It is when it's a specific consequence that's we've actually experienced and know it's likely we will experience it again.  As it is, if we had done this before the release of Dark Sun, a lot of Dark Sun resources would have been lost.  We know that D&D will sometimes bring back a prior setting.  We don't have that concern with the other forums that are being merged, like Astrid's Parlor, and the role-specific forums.

    An updated release of an earlier campaign setting doesn't mean that all content from previous editions related to that campaign setting is automatically sifted out of combined boards and destroyed.  All the updated release makes likely is the creation of a campaign-specific board related to the newer edition.

    The potential existence of campaign-specific boards for earlier editions doesn't protect existing resources from potential loss any better than being in a combined board.  All it does is increase the number of low-activity boards.

    The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

    Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

    My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
    Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.

    4E Character Mechanics (combines Strikers, Controllers, Defenders, Leaders, Multiclassing and Rituals, Equipment & Magic Items)

    I like it.

    Forgotten Realms (combines FR General, Running the Realms, and Realmslore)

    I like it very much, was long overdue

     


    All in all I think these are all sensible changes, the two above are the ones I like most

    We'd like to avoid sub-forums as much as possible, which to me means entirely. If a topic draws enough traffic to merit a forum, then it deserves a place in the main lineup. Sub-forums just add confusion to the "where should I post" question.

    Steve 
    If your only tool is a warhammer, every problem looks like a gnoll.
    We'd like to avoid sub-forums as much as possible, which to me means entirely. If a topic draws enough traffic to merit a forum, then it deserves a place in the main lineup. Sub-forums just add confusion to the "where should I post" question.

    Knowing this is your take on the re-org is very helpful. Thank you. It will inform our feedback.

    Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
    • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
    • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
    • Skills (p178-179)
    • Feats (p 192)
    • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
    • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
    A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
    We'd like to avoid sub-forums as much as possible, which to me means entirely. If a topic draws enough traffic to merit a forum, then it deserves a place in the main lineup. Sub-forums just add confusion to the "where should I post" question.

    Steve 


    I can get behind that as a motivation, but I remind you of Albert Einstein: Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler.

    For instance, under this system, the d20 Character Optimization forum (a place of pure mechanical help aimed primarily at D&D 3.5) would be merged with the Character Development forum (pure story), the d20 Modern forum (story and lore of a completely different system, which never gets enough support on its own and shoehorning it in here will just sweep it under the rug), and the RPG General board (which is pure off-topic compared to the other three, and has served as a dumping ground for 4e-comparison threads by the community supervisors' own admission). These have nothing to do with each other and will only make finding key threads harder - which is of particular concern on the CO boards, especially after the d20 fiasco a few years ago and forum pruning resorted in losing (and I sincerely wish I were joking here) lifetimes of man-hours of work on the system. (At one point, that board in particular was considered valuable by WotC - several of us were actually recruited by Wizards to give 4e its first stab at true optimization, strictly because we loved the game and were good at spotting mechanical synergies. We couldn't have done that if we didn't have a good resource for this, and one of the hallmarks of that was the high signal:noise ratio on the CO boards.) 



    I also have a semi-related question: What will happen to sticky threads in subforums that are merged? In the Previous Editions forums (which will become Vintage Rules Discussion, I believe), for instance, you find a number of very useful sticky threads... but they're most useful for the subforum in question.

    Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

    Weekly Optimization Series

    Show
    These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

    [TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
    [TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
    [AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
    [RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
    [AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
    [TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
    [TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
    [TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
    [AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
    [AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
    [TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
    [AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
    [TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
    [RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
    [SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
    [RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
    [AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
    [RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
    [RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
    [RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
    [AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
    [AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
    [DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
    [AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
    [RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
    [AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
    [TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
    [DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
    [AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
    [RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
    [RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
    [TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
    [RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
    [AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
    [TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

    [TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

    [TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

    [RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

    [TS] Assassin's Bleed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

     

    Want to see how the entire group rolls?
    [All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
    [TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
    [RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

     

    Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

    DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

    RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

    I may be one of those who didn't embrace 4e but still frequent the Previous Edition boards.  I'll admit they don't see much traffic so merging them into a single form wouldn't have things swept away daily but it certainly would make anyone who casually visits hard pressed to find anything.  My thought would be to merge the character hard stuff (classes, prc, equipment/skills/feats, race, psionics, and spells/magic) into one forum and merge the other stuff (general, adventures) into a second forum.

    Unless you're moving them in from somewhere else I do NOT see where all the campaign worlds should fall into Previous Editions.  Very few questions currently asked are world specific.  Game mechanics specific to campaign worlds can still fall into the normal categories but I'd guess that all of the fluff involved in any campaign setting could go into one world specific forum.
    We'd like to avoid sub-forums as much as possible, which to me means entirely. If a topic draws enough traffic to merit a forum, then it deserves a place in the main lineup. Sub-forums just add confusion to the "where should I post" question.

    Steve 


    Thanks for the info!  In that case, I strongly urge that What's a DM to Do? be moved adjacent to What's a Player to Do?, either above or below.
    The potential existence of campaign-specific boards for earlier editions doesn't protect existing resources from potential loss any better than being in a combined board.


    Yes, it does.  If I search in the Dark Sun forum for an NPC by name, I know I am unlikely to find threads about a similarly named person from Dragonlance, Planescape, or Birthright.  That's the whole point of having a campaign-specific forum.
    This reminds me though, that there should be an "Other Published Worlds" forum in the Vintage section to accommodate obscure settings like Council of Wyrms, Rokugan, and Lankmar, and worlds published by third-parties


    Good point.

    To Slagger, it really is a mess when you combine forums from different worlds. It stops being a useful forum to visit if you can't monitor it for threads about "your" setting and have to sift through other settings. These are generally really discrete audiences. You want to go read and talk about Planescape, not Al'Quadim. And you can't expect people to label each thread correctly. There are places on the Internet where this is done and I steer clear of those forums because it isn't worth my time.

    Low volume can be ok. It still means that an audience can get their needs met and feel good about WotC in the process. It also means that low volume can get noticed. A fan can step up and stir up some activity. In a larger forum worlds can get lost and people just walk away. Give them a place and there is a chance for growth.

    Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
    Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).

    The potential existence of campaign-specific boards for earlier editions doesn't protect existing resources from potential loss any better than being in a combined board.


    Yes, it does.  If I search in the Dark Sun forum for an NPC by name, I know I am unlikely to find threads about a similarly named person from Dragonlance, Planescape, or Birthright.  That's the whole point of having a campaign-specific forum.


    Right, but the confusion present in multi-edition worlds easily outweighs the small possibility that there's more than one King Kaius, Zagyg, Agis of Asticles, Elminster, Strahd, Lady of Pain or similar.

    Pretty much the only terms I can think of that show up in multiple worlds referring to radically different concepts is "Tyr" (FR and DS), and it's usually pretty obvious if they're talking about a place or a god. On the flipside, the enormous mechanical and lore differences between the thri-kreen of assorted editions of DS make it almost impossible to answer questions quickly and effectively without people specifying an edition in every thread. And as a regular of the Previous Editions forum (where there's an "implicit" edition of 3.5 but frequent posts from earlier editions, similar to how the new world boards would have an implicit 4e edition but access to earlier ones), I can clearly say that this is quite unlikely.

    Plus, take a look through those boards. Most of the threads you get will be discussing a rules question in some way, shape, or form (even those that sound like What's a DM/Player To Do In [This World] threads will come down to some mechanical discussion sooner or later.) If the edition is unclear, you're only making resolving those issues harder.

    Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

    Weekly Optimization Series

    Show
    These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

    [TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
    [TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
    [AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
    [RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
    [AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
    [TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
    [TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
    [TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
    [AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
    [AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
    [TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
    [AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
    [TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
    [RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
    [SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
    [RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
    [AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
    [RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
    [RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
    [RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
    [AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
    [AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
    [DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
    [AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
    [RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
    [AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
    [TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
    [DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
    [AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
    [RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
    [RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
    [TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
    [RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
    [AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
    [TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

    [TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

    [TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

    [RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

    [TS] Assassin's Bleed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

     

    Want to see how the entire group rolls?
    [All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
    [TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
    [RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

     

    Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

    DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

    RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

    The potential existence of campaign-specific boards for earlier editions doesn't protect existing resources from potential loss any better than being in a combined board.

    Yes, it does.  If I search in the Dark Sun forum for an NPC by name, I know I am unlikely to find threads about a similarly named person from Dragonlance, Planescape, or Birthright.  That's the whole point of having a campaign-specific forum.

    That makes it easier to find, not better protected against destruction by some kind of shenanigans involving merging and unmerging boards.

    Searching for an NPC's specific name in a combined board isn't going to generate a lot of confusing results unless the board has an inordinate amount of activity (enough to generate a lot of NPCs that just happen to have very similar names), and even if there was a sudden and fantastic spike in activity, any decent NPC has plenty of related details to narrow a search.

    The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

    Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

    My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
    Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
    If I'm a fan of Planescape and I go to a forum that has Planescape and Dark Sun in it, I will be confused. If I look at the first page of the Dark Sun forum I see plenty of threads where I don't immediately know the setting if I don't know that setting.

    If I'm a Planescape fan, could "How to become a dragon" be worth reading? How about "silt horrors"? "Crown of Dust"? "Dungeon 193 the Ravenous"? "Just thought I'd share this"? "Help a DM out"? It goes on and on. Fully half of the titles are recognized as Dark Sun only if you know the setting well. Why create confusion and dilute the benefit?

    I don't play a lot of Spelljammer, but if I end up doing it again I don't want to sift through a forum that has all the other worlds. I want to read about other worlds only in the context of Spelljammer. I want a discrete forum on that topic.

    Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
    Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).

    If I'm a fan of Planescape and I go to a forum that has Planescape and Dark Sun in it, I will be confused. If I look at the first page of the Dark Sun forum I see plenty of threads where I don't immediately know the setting if I don't know that setting.

    If I'm a Planescape fan, could "How to become a dragon" be worth reading? How about "silt horrors"? "Crown of Dust"? "Dungeon 193 the Ravenous"? "Just thought I'd share this"? "Help a DM out"? It goes on and on. Fully half of the titles are recognized as Dark Sun only if you know the setting well. Why create confusion and dilute the benefit?

    I don't play a lot of Spelljammer, but if I end up doing it again I don't want to sift through a forum that has all the other worlds. I want to read about other worlds only in the context of Spelljammer. I want a discrete forum on that topic.

    Sifting through everything shouldn't be much of a problem since every single one of the boards currently listed under the "Other Published Worlds" section has its first page covering topics reaching back to a minimum of 1 year.  Compare that to a very active board (by previous editions standards) like d20 Character Optimization, which only goes back two weeks on its first page of topics.  This is with 30 topics per page.

    The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

    Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

    My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
    Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.