Changes Coming to the Adventure Tools in September

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but if you import to the old one youre likely to lose triggers etc
Yes, but one can always add those in. Having the ability to put the stat blocks into Word is the key for me.
but if you import to the old one youre likely to lose triggers etc


I don't think so froth.  The bugs in the offline builder seem related to the "Edit a copy" button.  I never had any problems with custom built critters.  Also, once I put the triggers, etc. back into the critters stat block it didn't go away again if I edited that same custom monster again.  I believe it's either bad data transformation or bad original data.
but if you import to the old one youre likely to lose triggers etc


I don't think so froth.  The bugs in the offline builder seem related to the "Edit a copy" button.  I never had any problems with custom built critters.  Also, once I put the triggers, etc. back into the critters stat block it didn't go away again if I edited that same custom monster again.  I believe it's either bad data transformation or bad original data.



I've only built one monster in the builder since that bug was introduced. I built it from scratch and got the error so unless they changed something in the more recent update, I'm guessing that's not entirely accurate.
@Dane and Grand_Theft_Otto:

What you are both saying (although in different context) is that if the software doesn't have the specific feature that you want, they shouldn't release it.  This is contrary to every software development ever.  You pick target features for version x.x and when you have those features you release.  You pick the features that you think will be the most useful to the most users.  Or said the other way, it means some will not be happy about what you chose to not include.



What I'm saying is that the software should be designed with some common sense as to how it will actually be used. And people fight monsters in groups, so that means you want to design it with an eye towards encounter layouts. Its half assed, like pretty much everything WOTC does with the DDI. They toss soemthing out there, to say they accomplished it.

But hey, we can import character portraits now. Whoopty-doo. I might be impressed if we didnt already have this feature in the better functioning offline version.
The update to the MB looks to be complete.  I'm checking it out now.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.
Tried several attempts to import from the online to original MB, and it crashed the original MB each time.  Disappointing.
Damn!  My subscription lapsed!  My old CC expired last month!  Arghhhhhh!


Kalex the Omen 
Dungeonmaster Extraordinaire

OSR Fan? Our Big Announcement™ is here!

Please join our forums!

Concerning Player Rules Bias
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
Concerning "Default" Rules
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.

CB and MB were updated perhaps 2 minutes ago.

"The turning of the tide always begins with one soldier's decision to head back into the fray"

The ones that seemed to crash the original MB had trigger powers.  Tried taking over monsters without and they transfer, but only bring across powers.  HP, defenses, etc. don't come over.
Damn!  My subscription lapsed!  My old CC expired last month!  Arghhhhhh!





WOW!!!



Re-upped with my new CC and 7 min later...I'm in!  Way to go WotC getting the subscription process streamlined!  Not at all the horror stories I've heard or the one I lived last fall.  I'm quite happy! 

Kalex the Omen 
Dungeonmaster Extraordinaire

OSR Fan? Our Big Announcement™ is here!

Please join our forums!

Concerning Player Rules Bias
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
Concerning "Default" Rules
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.

Unfortunately it appears the old damage values are populating when creating a new monster.  That is disapointing, this was one of the things I was really hoping would be updated.

I love D&D more than I could ever love a human child.

Unfortunately it appears the old damage values are populating when creating a new monster.  That is disapointing, this was one of the things I was really hoping would be updated.



Yeah, I thought the damage output seemed kind of low. That's a bummer, but until they get it fixed at least there are options to quickly adjust the damage by setting average damage and dice size. Using the numbers from this table you'll get the monster damage up to speed quickly.
@Dane and Grand_Theft_Otto:

What you are both saying (although in different context) is that if the software doesn't have the specific feature that you want, they shouldn't release it.  This is contrary to every software development ever.  You pick target features for version x.x and when you have those features you release.  You pick the features that you think will be the most useful to the most users.  Or said the other way, it means some will not be happy about what you chose to not include.



What I'm saying is that the software should be designed with some common sense as to how it will actually be used. And people fight monsters in groups, so that means you want to design it with an eye towards encounter layouts. Its half assed, like pretty much everything WOTC does with the DDI. They toss soemthing out there, to say they accomplished it.

But hey, we can import character portraits now. Whoopty-doo. I might be impressed if we didnt already have this feature in the better functioning offline version.


So all those masterplan (tm) users (and other 3pp software) don't count eh?

We're done with the core features and we have export to XML.  If users have the offline tool they can import and convert to image, RTF, or plain text.
Choice A:  We should release now.
Choice B:  Let's push release back until we the other export formats "built in".

If my chioces are that I can have the tool now and have to take a few extra steps to get the format I want, I'll take the tool now as opposed to waiting another month or more.

Opinion on first use:  Very slick, very intuitive, fast and easy to use. It actually seems faster than the old MB. I built a level 14 solo in 10 minutes, using a mixture of powers and traits from other monsters as well as some homebrewed ones. No problems at all. There's a lot of advances options lurking under the surface, you just have to click on the right buttons to gain access to them.

Overall, I'm extremely happy with this. If they could sort out the use of pre-MM3 values and export options I'd rate this as a major homerun for DDI. As it is, it's a 8.5 out of 10.

For your information, I've tried importing the .monster exports into Goathead's DM Minion 2.0, and so far it works. Sorry for Masterplan and DD4eCM users, though
mb is repeatedly crashing when i try to edit damage lines for new artillery monster. the + sign freezes it then crashes

import to masterplan works, more or less
mb is repeatedly crashing when i try to edit damage lines for new artillery monster. the + sign freezes it then crashes

import to masterplan works, more or less



At what step is it craching? I just created a monster and made a bunch of powers and it didn't crash at all.
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
The dev team has been made aware of the crash bug and is working on a fix. They hope to have it ready this afternoon, but it's not yet ready as of this moment, which means nothing is certain. They don't expect that the tool will need to be pulled down for this fix, but that's not 100%, either. 

FYI, the crash seems to be related to nonstandard entries; i.e., 1d2, 1d3, 1d5, etc. Avoid those and you should avoid the crash. If not, let us know.

Steve

If your only tool is a warhammer, every problem looks like a gnoll.

The dev team has been made aware of the crash bug and is working on a fix. They hope to have it ready this afternoon, but it's not yet ready as of this moment, which means nothing is certain. They don't expect that the tool will need to be pulled down for this fix, but that's not 100%, either. 

FYI, the crash seems to be related to nonstandard entries; i.e., 1d2, 1d3, 1d5, etc. Avoid those and you should avoid the crash. If not, let us know.

Steve



actually it was typing a + sign that made mine crash, i didnt do non standard entries. i made it clear in my bug report
Char Builder: Can't houserule-add feats. Still unusable.

Monster Builder: Pre MM3-stats. Power2ool.com still better. And has more storage space.

Getting closer I guess - it's just frustrating that the builder is still nowhere near the functionality of the one they took away.
New MB working great. Bug crash when i first tried to DELETE damage line of a New Utility Power. DID this twice. AFter that all worked fine. Been Customizing and creating a dozen new monsters and Imported then successfully into the VT

Damage expression pre-MM3 needs to be upped. Otherwise its very slick and i am quite happy to see this tool completed finally ! 

Hats to the crew

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Okay, maybe I am just being an idiot or maybe I am looking for a feature that isn't there, but how the heck do I Export a monster?  If theres a button to do it, I can't find it.
Nvm, found it.

The crash bug has been fixed. Thanks to everyone who reported it. If you have any further problems with it, please let us know.

Steve


If your only tool is a warhammer, every problem looks like a gnoll.

Problem.  Have only tested it with 1 moster at the moment.

Gray Wolf.  I customized it.  Changed the bite damage to 1d6+5, and it shows 1d6+5 in the window.  As soon as I click "return" it goes back to 1d6+4.  So I changed it to 1d6+7, and it changed it to 1d6+6.  1d6+15 became 1d6+14.  So, regardless of what I changed the damage to, it subtracted 1 from the final result.

I have yet to test this out in other monsters.
"Five million Cybermen, easy. One Doctor? NOW you're scared!" - Rose Tyler
bizarre. theres weird cb stuff too
Char Builder: Can't houserule-add feats. Still unusable.

Monster Builder: Pre MM3-stats. Power2ool.com still better. And has more storage space.

Getting closer I guess - it's just frustrating that the builder is still nowhere near the functionality of the one they took away.



#1 - Probably not high on the priority list to add house rule options.

#2 - Although I have not played with it much I have heard others say even creating a monster by scratch has the old values. Could juse be a database problem (i.e they didnt update the database or loaded the wrong database).  From all the talk about it I am sure it has been reported.

#3 - I assume you mean the CB here which yes you could add a feat in it, but it never calculated that feat anywhere on the sheet.  So it in essence was no different than you writing it in with a pencil.
The adventure tools are crashing for me with an "unknown error" at the loading screen. I've submitted a ticket to customer service with the error log attached. I'm curious to know if others are seeing this issue as well.
I haven't actually been able to open teh Adventure Tools yet.  I get stuck at the spinning hourglass.
Char Builder: Can't houserule-add feats. Still unusable.

Monster Builder: Pre MM3-stats. Power2ool.com still better. And has more storage space.

Getting closer I guess - it's just frustrating that the builder is still nowhere near the functionality of the one they took away.



#1 - Probably not high on the priority list to add house rule options.

#2 - Although I have not played with it much I have heard others say even creating a monster by scratch has the old values. Could juse be a database problem (i.e they didnt update the database or loaded the wrong database).  From all the talk about it I am sure it has been reported.

#3 - I assume you mean the CB here which yes you could add a feat in it, but it never calculated that feat anywhere on the sheet.  So it in essence was no different than you writing it in with a pencil.



You could at least add house rules like bonus feats, skills, etc. You could rename items, add languages and backgrounds. Moreover, you could actually get the math to work. People have added entire classes to the thing. The crowdsourced old builder is much better than the current online only builder. No surprise there.
@Dane and Grand_Theft_Otto:

What you are both saying (although in different context) is that if the software doesn't have the specific feature that you want, they shouldn't release it.  This is contrary to every software development ever.  You pick target features for version x.x and when you have those features you release.  You pick the features that you think will be the most useful to the most users.  Or said the other way, it means some will not be happy about what you chose to not include.



What I'm saying is that the software should be designed with some common sense as to how it will actually be used. And people fight monsters in groups, so that means you want to design it with an eye towards encounter layouts. Its half assed, like pretty much everything WOTC does with the DDI. They toss soemthing out there, to say they accomplished it.

But hey, we can import character portraits now. Whoopty-doo. I might be impressed if we didnt already have this feature in the better functioning offline version.


So all those masterplan (tm) users (and other 3pp software) don't count eh?



NO, YOU DONT. Not compared to the vastly larger number of people who use word.


We're done with the core features and we have export to XML.  If users have the offline tool they can import and convert to image, RTF, or plain text.
Choice A:  We should release now.
Choice B:  Let's push release back until we the other export formats "built in".



You;ve got it backwards. Export to text should have been the first priority, the other second.


If my chioces are that I can have the tool now and have to take a few extra steps to get the format I want, I'll take the tool now as opposed to waiting another month or more.



The problem is WOTC drags its ass to fix anything. Case in point - we can just now import portraits. Which you could always do from the old builder. Its what, a year later, and they still havent even made the new builder as good as the old one? I sure am glad they wasted a bunch of resources to punish those who just subscribed for a month to update and cancel, as opposed to offering better functionality to encourage people to remain subscribed.
Grand_Theft_Otto, I wish I lived in your world where other software was so perfect. I've worked for years managing software projects and digital content projects, as well as implementing third party solutions into software. I haven't met a company/provider that didn't have to compromise on what they deliver, didn't have a shortage of resources (to some extent), didn't struggle to please users, and didn't have someone on forums telling them they take forever to fix things, miss obvious functional needs, have their priorities backwards, etc. I define this as the reality of the business space. If you've managed to solve those problems or know companies that have, please do share their names.

Example within the same industry: Paizo introduces a pdf sample of their new intro boxed set. One of the first forum posts is that the download link doesn't work. We would all agree broken links, in theory, should never happen. I haven't met a company where that is the case.

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@Dane and Grand_Theft_Otto:

What you are both saying (although in different context) is that if the software doesn't have the specific feature that you want, they shouldn't release it.  This is contrary to every software development ever.  You pick target features for version x.x and when you have those features you release.  You pick the features that you think will be the most useful to the most users.  Or said the other way, it means some will not be happy about what you chose to not include.



What I'm saying is that the software should be designed with some common sense as to how it will actually be used. And people fight monsters in groups, so that means you want to design it with an eye towards encounter layouts. Its half assed, like pretty much everything WOTC does with the DDI. They toss soemthing out there, to say they accomplished it.

But hey, we can import character portraits now. Whoopty-doo. I might be impressed if we didnt already have this feature in the better functioning offline version.


So all those masterplan (tm) users (and other 3pp software) don't count eh?



NO, YOU DONT. Not compared to the vastly larger number of people who use word.


Stop making this into personal attacks.

I don't use masterplan and I find it interesting that you automatically ASSUME that because I asked about "those users" you decided I was therefore one of them.  I didn't even say "So all us masterplan..." thereby including myself in said group.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and put you in the big chair.  Let's pretend you're in change over at WotC.  You only get one export format at launch because that's all you have time to implement.  Here are your choices:

A)  XML - This option integrates directly to other 3pp software that has been developed as well as importing into the old tool.  From there your customers can use the old tool to create any of the old supported formats (RTF, plain text, image).  This option (though needing extra steps) supports all currently supported formats at launch.
B)  RTF - This option doesn't work with 3pp software so a segment of your customer base will be completely unserved at launch.  You also can't import to your old tool to generate images or plain text.
C)  Image - Well, we could do this, but anyone who wants an image can use "printscreen" and paste into their choice of software.  Seems like a poor choice
D)  Plain text - Much the same as RTF.

Do I need to tell you what the "right" answer is?


We're done with the core features and we have export to XML.  If users have the offline tool they can import and convert to image, RTF, or plain text.
Choice A:  We should release now.
Choice B:  Let's push release back until we the other export formats "built in".



You;ve got it backwards. Export to text should have been the first priority, the other second.


See above.

If my chioces are that I can have the tool now and have to take a few extra steps to get the format I want, I'll take the tool now as opposed to waiting another month or more.



The problem is WOTC drags its ass to fix anything. Case in point - we can just now import portraits. Which you could always do from the old builder. Its what, a year later, and they still havent even made the new builder as good as the old one? I sure am glad they wasted a bunch of resources to punish those who just subscribed for a month to update and cancel, as opposed to offering better functionality to encourage people to remain subscribed.


I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the issue at hand (which export format at launch), but what the heck.  "Better functionality" was not going to solve the subscribe and cancel problem and if you think it would have then I have some swamp land in Florida I'd like to sell you.

If you're really this bitter and you feel WotC has no right to make a profit, I politely suggest you just cancel now and get your refund.
B)  RTF - This option doesn't work with 3pp software so a segment of your customer base will be completely unserved at launch.  You also can't import to your old tool to generate images or plain text.

This is not accurate.  There are a lot of 3rd party utitilies out there that parse monster data in RTF format right from the clipboard.  Also, Word and Wordpad are 3pp as they pertain to the MB, and RTF works just great with them.


Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.
B)  RTF - This option doesn't work with 3pp software so a segment of your customer base will be completely unserved at launch.  You also can't import to your old tool to generate images or plain text.

This is not accurate.  There are a lot of 3rd party utitilies out there that parse monster data in RTF format right from the clipboard.  Also, Word and Wordpad are 3pp as they pertain to the MB, and RTF works just great with them.




Ok, then I stand corrected.  RTF still doesn't support all existing formats at launch they way that XML does for the same reasons I laid out.  Just there are a few options that use RTF that I wasn't aware of.  Sorry I wasn't thinking of "Word" as 3pp - just masterplan et. al.  I view 3pp as software written specifically for use with a given product.  Word wasn't made specifically for DDI tools even though it can be used with them.
Ok, then I stand corrected.  RTF still doesn't support all existing formats at launch they way that XML does for the same reasons I laid out.  Just there are a few options that use RTF that I wasn't aware of.  Sorry I wasn't thinking of "Word" as 3pp - just masterplan et. al.  I view 3pp as software written specifically for use with a given product.  Word wasn't made specifically for DDI tools even though it can be used with them.

XML, as it has been provided, was not intended for use in 3pp.  They provided it so people could import and export them into the new monster builder and the VT.  Everything else, including importing it into the old monster builder, is tertiary, therefore your reasoning behind your A choice is faulty, especially the "supports all currently supported formats at launch" part.  Initial testing and reports indicate that the new XML format isn't even entirely compatible with the old MB.  Follow-up editing is still required.

Providing the RTF export and RTF To Clipboard functionality is a valid request, and should be a priority.  You can act like it was not an oversight all you like, but it was an oversight.  It is also an incredibly simple thing to implement.

It also stands to reason that more people know how to understand and manipulate RTF format than XML format, thus it is potentially more useful to the end user.  It is as viable an option, if not more, than XML, except for how it pertains to importing to the online MB and the VT.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.
I’ve removed content from this thread because Baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here:

wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg...

Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.
Providing the RTF export and RTF To Clipboard functionality is a valid request, and should be a priority.  You can act like it was not an oversight all you like, but it was an oversight.  It is also an incredibly simple thing to implement.

It also stands to reason that more people know how to understand and manipulate RTF format than XML format, thus it is potentially more useful to the end user.  It is as viable an option, if not more, than XML, except for how it pertains to importing to the online MB and the VT.


Please show me where I said RTF export was NOT a valid request and it shouldn't be a priority or stop using straw man arguements.
Providing the RTF export and RTF To Clipboard functionality is a valid request, and should be a priority.  You can act like it was not an oversight all you like, but it was an oversight.  It is also an incredibly simple thing to implement.

It also stands to reason that more people know how to understand and manipulate RTF format than XML format, thus it is potentially more useful to the end user.  It is as viable an option, if not more, than XML, except for how it pertains to importing to the online MB and the VT.


Please show me where I said RTF export was NOT a valid request and it shouldn't be a priority or stop using straw man arguements.

As soon as you show me where I said that you said it was not a valid request or not a priority.
 
My response that "the RTF functionality is a valid request and should be a priority" does not in any way make any inference that you do not feel that way.  I merely presented it as a point and I attached no connotations to it.  The inference is of your own creation.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Default module =/= Core mechanic.