[ARCHETYPE] Deceiver Exarch + Splinter Twin

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This thread is for the discussion of the ever popular infinite combo, featuring Deceiver Exarch and Splinter Twin.

What is this deck:
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The idea behind this deck is to beat your opponent featuring the infinite combo, created by using Deceiver Exarch with Splinter Twin.

For those unfamiliar with how this combo works, it goes like this:
-Enchant your Deceiver Exarch with Splinter Twin.
(Your Deceiver Exarch must not have summoning sickness for the combo to work)
-Tap your Deceiver Exarch, creating a copy
-As the copy comes into play, chose the first option of the comes-into-play ability, targetting the original Exarch
-This causes the original to become un-tapped
-Create another copy, re-un-tapping your original
-Rinse and repeat, until you have enough tokens. Because each token has haste, you may now attack for as much damage as you would like

This deck's greatest potential lies in being able to "go off" as early as turn 4. At the end of your opponent's turn 3, you may cast Deceiver Exarch, because it has Flash. Then, during your first Main Phase, you enchant and create tokens.

Remember, also, that you do not have to only enchant the Exarch to win. If you can get a Splinter Twin on an Inferno Titan, you are looking pretty golden, because the copy will get both the comes into play ability, as well as the when this creature attacks ability.

Deck Win History:
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(Because this combo was not possible until New Phyrexia was released, the deck has only a few tournament showings so far. Keep your eyes out, though, as those numbers are sure to increase. I will update this thread once a week with standings)

SCG Qualifier - Chester (22 May 2011)
5 - RUG Twin

SCG Qualifier - Apex (22 May 2011)
6 - RUG Twin

SCG Qualifier - Wilmington (22 May 2011)
1 - Pyro Twin

TCG WWS (21 May 2011):
1 - UR Twin
11 - Grixis Twin

SCG Orlando (15 May 2011):
2 - Grixis Twin
3 - RUG Twin
12 - Grixis Twin
13 - Grixis Twin

Variations of Decks:
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There are four main variations of this list, which I will cover below (EDIT: added a 5th list, Exarch-Blade)
UR Twin:
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This build focusus almost solely on the combo, protecting it with Jace, as well as a slew of counter-spells. The deck has massive card-advantage because of many draw spells and abilities.

The most recent version of UR Twin was piloted my Mike Flores to a first place finish at the TCG WWS Big Apple tournament. He did an interview on Yo' MTG Taps podcast, and also spoke about it on his own podcast, Top 8 Magic. He wrote an article on starcitygames.com, for premium subscribers, where he talked about his own decisions about the deck.

One of the most important things he says is that this deck is all about the land, and against other decks, it basically becomes a land-war. He mentions that every single one of his lands come into play un-tapped, and that all are immune to his opponent's Tectonic Edge (except his own Edges, of course).

I would encourage you to look up what he has to say about the deck so that, if for no other reason, you may better understand his decision making.

Here is the list:
Planeswalkers: (6)
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Jace Beleren

Creatures: (11)
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Sea Gate Oracle
2 Inferno Titan
1 Pilgrim's Eye

Spells: (13)
4 Into the Roil
3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Pierce
4 Preordain

Spells: (4)
4 Splinter Twin

Land: (26)
10 Island
8 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tectonic Edge

Sideboard: (15)
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Elixer of Immortality
2 Spellskite
1 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Manic Vandal
1 Trinket Mage
1 Dispel
1 Jace's Ingenuity
2 Spell Pierce
1 Jace Beleren
2 Pyroclasm

Grixis Twin:
Show

This variation of the deck attempts to protect it's combo with discard spells, and also runs more removal in the form of creature destruction.

The most recent winning deck list:
Planeswalkers: (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Creatures: (8)
3 Spellskite
1 Consecrated Sphinx
4 Deceiver Exarch

Spells: (10)
2 Into the Roil
4 Mana Leak
4 Preordain

Spells: (4)
4 Splinter Twin

Spells: (11)
2 Dismember
2 Go for the Throat
3 Duress
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

Land: (24)
4 Island
2 Mountain
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Halimar Depths
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard: (15)
4 Calcite Snapper
1 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Combust
2 Shatter
3 Twisted Image
3 Pyroclasm

RUG Twin:
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Unfortunately, this is the side of the combo I am least familiar with, so I will simply post the deck list, and ask for some help, updating this section, from someone with experience playing this version of the deck

Planeswalkers: (6)
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Jace Beleren

Creatures: (13)
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Inferno Titan
4 Lotus Cobra
1 Oracle of Mul Daya

Spells: (6)
2 Mana Leak
4 Preordain

Spells: (7)
4 Splinter Twin
3 Lightning Bolt

Spells: (2)
2 Explore

Land: (27)
2 Forest
4 Island
2 Mountain
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Halimar Depths
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Raging Ravine
4 Scalding Tarn

Sideboard: (15)
2 Obstinate Baloth
4 Flashfreeze
3 Nature's Claim
2 Spell Pierce
4 Pyroclasm

UR PyroTwin:
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This deck is said to be the weakest of the versions, and it has not put up any notable results, except on magic-league.com, and those were all earlier in the month. Still, I will put up the most recent version I can find, simply so that I can cover everything.

Creatures: (6)
4 Deceiver Exarch
2 Spellskite

Spells: (18)
3 Into the Roil
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Mana Leak
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
4 Preordain

Spells: (14)
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Splinter Twin
3 Burst Lightning

Land: (22)
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Halimar Depths
4 Mountain
7 Island

Sideboard: (15)
2 Spellskite
4 Pyroclasm
4 Spell Pierce
2 Negate
3 Combust

ExarchBlade


Weaknesses:
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This is a list of the cards that can give our deck a hard time. I did not include counterspells nor hand disruption, as they give any deck a hard time.

Spellskite - This card can stop our combo simply because it is able to steal the enchantment (Splinter Twin) as it attempts to enchant our Deceiver Exarch. We must deal with Spellskite before we can combo out

Dismember - This is sneaky because it can potentially only cost 1 mana, and it's colorless. We might feel safe enchanting because our opponent only has a Plains untapped, but all of the sudden they kill our Deceiver Exarch, if we're not careful

Combust - This is tough because it can't be countered, nor prevented. This card is our kryptonite, and should be avoided at all costs.


I would love any feedback, and I will be updating this thread at least bi-weekly, if not even more often.

Good luck infinite-combo-ing!
Reserved

www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2011/05/exarchbla...

Exarch-blade.... yeah it's happened.....
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www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2011/05/exarchbla...

Exarch-blade.... yeah it's happened.....


Updated the OP with this list, we'll see what happens! 

Here's a more finetuend version of that list:


4 Preordain
2 Jace Beleren
4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
(10)


4 Exarch
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
(13)


4 Splinter Twin
(4)


2 Spell Pierce
3 Mana Leak
3 Into The Roil
(8)


4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Seachrome Coast
5 Mountain
4 Celestial Colonade
2 Island
2 Plains
(25)


needs a sb tho

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@Fubsygamer: This archetype thread needed to be made at some point anyway, but in the future, you HAVE to ask for permission before posting in the Tournament Center.  You did a good job with the thread, though, so I wouldn't have much changed.  I'd only recommend descriptions of why certain cards go in the build.
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@Fubsygamer: This archetype thread needed to be made at some point anyway, but in the future, you HAVE to ask for permission before posting in the Tournament Center.  You did a good job with the thread, though, so I wouldn't have much changed.  I'd only recommend descriptions of why certain cards go in the build.


I am very sorry, I wasn't aware as to how to go about creating the archetype threads. My apologies.

I'll also update the OP tonight with descriptions and reasons for certain cards.

Thanks! 

Here's a more finetuend version of that list:


4 Preordain
2 Jace Beleren
4 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
(10)


4 Exarch
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of War and Peace
(13)


4 Splinter Twin
(4)


2 Spell Pierce
3 Mana Leak
3 Into The Roil
(8)


4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Seachrome Coast
5 Mountain
4 Celestial Colonade
2 Island
2 Plains
(25)


needs a sb tho


Basilisk Collar, Cunning Sparkmage, Inferno Titan (These all could fine spot in the MD too actually), Gideon Jura, Clasm / Slag / DoJ, Lightning Bolt, Crush, Flashfreeze, some random options.

The mage formerly known as kedi. Team GFG - Goons From Ghana - Playing sweet decks since 2010 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: I'm actually playing B/r zombies 1:31 AM Battle7: nice 1:31 AM Nighthavk_: yeah it's pretty sweet really 1:31 AM Battle7: playing esper tokens 1:32 AM Nighthavk_: I like that deck 1:32 AM Battle7: it's sweet

Since this deck is more combo-y, I reckon it's better off playing sparky-collar in the board, since it doesn't need much creature removal MD. Jace bounce and tap down should be enough to score hits from the sworded dudes, as well as 10 dudes to equip + batterskull.

However, all those cards are incredibly valid and the list is far from perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

I think it's going to be like last year, where at the end of the format, the best deck is one that just does everything the other decks are doing al at once, in this case stoneforge-twin, last year it was mythic, with it's vengevines, conscriptions and walkers.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
yea, i guess this deck doesn't necessarily suck, i'll give her another go:

Lands:
4 - Creeping Tar Pit
4 - Darkslick Shores
4 - Blackcleave Cliffs
2 - Dragonskull Summit
4 - Scalding Tarn
1 - Halimar Depths
4 - Island
3 - Mountain
26 Lands

Creatures:
4 - Deceiver Exarch
1 - Grave Titan
5 Creatures

Other Spells:
4 - Mana Leak
4 - Preordain
2 - Into the Roil
4 - Inquisition of Kozilek
3 - Duress
3 - Go for the Throat
4 - Splinter Twin
1 - Jace Beleren
4 - Jace, the Mind Sculptor
31 Other Spells

Sideboard:
1 - Jace Beleren
3 - Spell Pierce
2 - Memoricide
1 - Go for the Throat
1 - Doom Blade
2 - Combust
3 - Pyroclasm
2 - Crush
15 Cards in Sideboard

i just got all excited because i smoked a caw player in 2 games.  granted, he may not have been the best pilot ever, jury is still out, but still... a win's a win.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

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Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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I'm honestly not a huge fan of the ubr version.  I honestly prefer straight UR or maybe RUG.  I honestly think that straight UR is the easiest on the manabase, allows for Tectonic Edge, and Inferno Titan is a beast as well.  I just honestly find for Ur to be a lot easier to set up the combo and still go off.


Here's my list:

Lands
    10 [ZEN] Island (1)
    6 [ZEN] Mountain (3)
    4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    1 [M11] Terramorphic Expanse
    2 [WWK] Halimar Depths
    3 [WWK] Tectonic Edge


// Creatures
    4 [ROE] Sea Gate Oracle
    4 [NPH] Deceiver Exarch
    3 [M11] Inferno Titan


// Spells
    4 [M11] Preordain
    4 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    2 [M11] Jace Beleren
    4 [M11] Mana Leak
    3 [ZEN] Into the Roil
    4 [ROE] Splinter Twin
    2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce


// Sideboard
SB: 2 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 4 [NPH] Spellskite
SB: 4 [SOM] Trinket Mage
SB: 1 [M11] Elixir of Immortality
SB: 1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar
SB: 3 [WWK] Cunning Sparkmage


Want to know how to keep a moron busy? Reread this sentence to find out!
mana concerns are the big difference, for sure, but having black disruption is usually pretty good, especially when it comes to vamps.  being able to knock out crap from their hand allows for a safer turn 4/5 kill.

with UR, you probably are waiting until turn 5 to go off safely.

halo, from your list, i'd probalby go down to only 2 trinket mages and another cunning sparkmage and something else.  maybe the 3rd mage or another collar.  sparkmage is more important that trinket mage.  this coming from experience since i'm actually messing around with UR twin combo AND also my UR trinket mage midrange control deck that you might remember from a few months ago.  without valakut, it works better since it owns boards.  sparkmages are pretty nuts right now, its just not as well known.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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Here is the list I ran last week and FNM and the NPH game day.

4 Tectonic Edge
4 Scalding Tarn
10 Island
8 Mountain

4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Splinter Twin

2 Inferno Titan

3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Preordain
3 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Jace Beleren
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

2 Spell Pierce
3 Mana Leak
4 Into the Roil

SIDEBOARD
1 Spell Pierce
1 Turn Aside
3 Pyroclasm
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Jace Beleren
2 Manic Vandal
1 Consecrated Sphinx 

At FNM I went 3-0-1, beating Vampires, Elves and a Shape Anew/Golem deck.  I split with a friend for 1st place who was playing a white weenie/Puresteel Paladin deck.

The game day had a low turn out, only 12 people shows.  I lost to a mono-green infect deck, beat... someone that I can't remember, then intentionally drew with a friend gambling that doing so would get us both into the top 8.  The gamble paid off, both of us made it into the top 8 and 7th and 8th place.  I then played the mono-green deck again, and beat them 2-0.  The top 4 decided to just split the top, ending my day at 2-1-1.

After those matches I plan to swap in a few more counters and add Apostle's Blessing, which I believe trumps Combust.
If you protect yourself from Combust with Apostle's Blessing, the Splinter Twin they cast it in response to will fail.
i forgot turn aside.  that seems like a good card, especially given the cards that normally are meant to fight the deck.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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i ran this list at last weeks gameday

4 deceiver exarch
4 splinter twin

6 creature

2 inferno titan
2 Augury Owl (no joke this guy is inane)
2 sea gate oracle

18 spells
4 into the roil
4 mana leak
3 spell pierce
3 gitaxian probe
4 preordain
3 koth

26 lands
9 islands
10 mountains
4 scalding tarn
3 tectonic edge

sideboard
1
inferno titan
3 Crush
3 Slagstorm
1 pyroclasm
2 sphinx of jwar isle (some home brew tech i'm trying out)
1volition rein
3 spellskite
1 Augury Owl ( this is for the cawblade match)

Yes there are no jaces in the deck. It is for a good reason and no i'm not a budget player i acually did some testing and found that it was much better to just avoid the jace war and spend more resources in the plan B (beat down). this is only if you don't get the combo.  When i was running jace i was spending too many of my turn protecting him.  I'm not sure if this is right but i like it so far and it has a decent cawblade match i would say a little below 60% win.

I would like some help tweaking i know that the sidebaord is in very rough condition.
koth =/= jace

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket


The UR version still doesn't seem as good, even moreso now that Combust is happily sittign in sideboards. If your opponent has a combust agaisnt the UR version, then you pretty much can't win. The RUG build seems really strong since it has a much stronger backup plan and mana, same goes for the RWU build.
Website for my radio series: http://www.cyrusbalesfilms.co.uk/id2.html For the facebook group of my radio series, search for "Who will save us now?" Please join! Follow my regular articles on: http://www.manaleak.com/mtguk/
If you protect yourself from Combust with Apostle's Blessing, the Splinter Twin they cast it in response to will fail.



You make a good point.  Which leads me to Mutagenic Growth.  Should stop Combust and Dismember, unless they have multiple removal spells...

I prefer the UR version because it can run more counters and card filtering than any of the 3-color versions.   2x Inferno Titan have been enough of a back up plan for most games.
For a few games I ran the ubr version, but now this past week and on-line i've switched to a UR version with pyromancer ascension in the sideboard.  If they can beat the combo, I sideboard in the pyro (taking out the 8 combo cards) and go to burn. Tezzeret's gambit and volt charge along with gitaxian probe and the normal blue spells mana leak and preordain get the quest counters on pyro really quick in standard.   I find running burst lightning and lightning bolt in my main board is great at creature & plainswalker removal keeping me alive until i can execute the combo.
If you protect yourself from Combust with Apostle's Blessing, the Splinter Twin they cast it in response to will fail.



You make a good point.  Which leads me to Mutagenic Growth.  Should stop Combust and Dismember, unless they have multiple removal spells...

I prefer the UR version because it can run more counters and card filtering than any of the 3-color versions.   2x Inferno Titan have been enough of a back up plan for most games.



I like that idea, I've been using it well in Block.

The UR build is really problematic, trying to use mutagenic growth is a lot like turning it into a three card combo agaisnt any red deck. Without somethign like Gigadrowse, I can't see it working too well against anything red. You're almost better off by boarding into a different deck agaisnt anything red.
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At this point I see Gitaxian Probes as just wasted slots.  They pretty much do, well, nothing but cantrip.  We aren't going to combo off incorrectly so why do we need Gitaxian Probe as insurance?  I really think that unless you don't trust yourselves to know when to combo off, you should not play Gitaxian Probe.  A friend lent me some Inferno Titans for my list, but I still don't have big Jaces (somebody stole 2 of them and the others I traded a while back ><) so here is my list as it stands:


Lands 26:


4 Scalding Tarn
10 Island
8 Mountain
4 Tectonic Edge

Spells 19:

4 Preordain
2 Jace Beleren
4 Into the Roil
2 Spell Pierce
3 Mana Leak
4 Splinter Twin

Creatures 15:

1 Pilgrim's Eye
2 inferno Titan
4 Sea Gate Oracle
4 Spellskite
4 Deceiver Exarch

Sideboard 15:

3 Cunning Sparkmage
2 Trinket Mage
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Basilisk Collar
2 Pyroclasm
2 Dismember
3 Dispel
1 Manic Vandal


Thoughts on this list?                                          
Want to know how to keep a moron busy? Reread this sentence to find out!
i feel like you're playing elixir just because, and maybe you'd be better off playing another artifact hate card.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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i feel like you're playing elixir just because, and maybe you'd be better off playing another artifact hate card.



Maybe, but the Elixir has been helping a lot in red matchups, but then again, I'm winning those matches with skite and SGO anyways xD
Want to know how to keep a moron busy? Reread this sentence to find out!
well, here's what i'm currently trying to work with:

Lands:
4 - Scalding Tarn
10 - Island
8 - Mountain
4 - Tectonic Edge
26 Lands

Creatures:
4 - Sea Gate Oracle
4 - Deceiver Exarch
2 - Inferno Titan
10 Creatures

Other Spells:
4 - Mana Leak
3 - Spell Pierce
4 - Preordain
3 - Into the Roil
4 - Splinter Twin
2 - Jace Beleren
4 - Jace, the Mind Sculptor
24 Other Spells

Sideboard:
1 - Dispel
2 - Trinket Mage
1 - Basilisk Collar
3 - Cunning Sparkmage
1 - Manic Vandal
1 - Crush
1 - Combust
3 - Pyroclasm
2 - Dismember
15 Cards in Sideboard

not sure if i'm gonna keep the trinket/sparkmage package.  anyone that knows my history knows that i've been on and off rocking this since SOM came out.  it can be good in some situations, for sure, but i don't know if its truly necessary in those situations.

basically, the deck would board sorta transformationally into a sorta midrange/combo/control deck.

the deck is probably my best bet for doing well right now, so i'll try some dailies with it this weekend, see how things turn out.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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does anyone know of any good sideboard tech for cawblade?
does anyone know of any good sideboard tech for cawblade?


artifact hate, cunning sparkmage

otherwise, caw isn't really a deck one can hate on.

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At the moment, I'm working on a RUG Twin deck that could be viable if SFM & Jace get banned.

Currently, it roughly looks like this;

Artifact (1);
1x Birthing Pod

Creatures (31);
1x Acidic Slime
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Deciever Exarch
4x Fauna Shaman
1x Frost Titan
3x Inferno Titan
4x Lotus Cobra
1x Manic Vandal
4x Vengevine

Enchantement (4);
4x Splinter Twin

Sorceries&Instants (4);
4x Preordain

Lands (15);
4x Copperline Gorge
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Raging Ravine

Basic Lands (11);
3x Forest
5x Island
3x Mountain

Sideboard;
Doesn't look like anything right now. It'll have to be worked on.
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-2 island, +1 forest, +1 llanowar elves.  26 lands is probably one too many and getting another mana dork would be good.  preordain isn't that great here, i'd probably rather run more creatures instead like sea gate oracle since it does sorta the same thing, but is a body, especially for vengevine.

maybe lose a titan for a phyrexian metamorph (the new clone).

sideboard should have some counters, dismembers, and probably nature's claims and maybe combust.  start there.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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RUG builds are better against everything that isn't Valakut.

UBR versions dodge hate better and crush Valakut.

UR versions are whatever; probably just worse than UBR. 
RUG builds are better against everything that isn't Valakut.

UBR versions dodge hate better and crush Valakut.

UR versions are whatever; probably just worse than UBR. 



The thing with UR is that it's more streamlined than UBR, but it is weaker to hate.
2:25 PM sneakattackkid: my basics are worth more... 5:21 PM Nighthavk_: I was splitting more 8-4s than a hooker splits her legs. 11:42 PM Nighthavk_: because honestly, your opponent may be caw, but he'll probably be a drooling idiot who just found out porn exists.
Tectonic Edge and Spreading Seas will hurt the mana base for either of the 3 color options, both of which people will likely be playing more to combat Valakut decks.

UR cannot win the game if the opponent has a Combust in hand. This alone is reason enough to not run UR, since RDW and Valakut will probably be two fo the top decks.
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UR cannot win the game if the opponent has a Combust in hand. This alone is reason enough to not run UR, since RDW and Valakut will probably be two fo the top decks.

Mutagenic Growth says hi to both Combust and Dismember. Try it out, it actually works quite well in practice.

UR cannot win the game if the opponent has a Combust in hand. This alone is reason enough to not run UR, since RDW and Valakut will probably be two fo the top decks.

Mutagenic Growth says hi to both Combust and Dismember. Try it out, it actually works quite well in practice.


As a Valakut player, I would think you have to have better options than turning your 2-card combo into a 3-card combo. It seems like against either of Valakut/RDW, your opponent's clock is fast enough that waiting to find a 3rd combo piece might not be feasible, especially since you still lose to 2 removal spells (Combust/Bolt, double Bolt, etc...).

UR cannot win the game if the opponent has a Combust in hand. This alone is reason enough to not run UR, since RDW and Valakut will probably be two fo the top decks.

Mutagenic Growth says hi to both Combust and Dismember. Try it out, it actually works quite well in practice.


As a Valakut player, I would think you have to have better options than turning your 2-card combo into a 3-card combo. It seems like against either of Valakut/RDW, your opponent's clock is fast enough that waiting to find a 3rd combo piece might not be feasible, especially since you still lose to 2 removal spells (Combust/Bolt, double Bolt, etc...).


its not a 3 card combo.  its a 2 card combo having a protections spell against a possible threat if it can.  there's nothing wrong with that.

besides, what else could you possible mention instead that wouldn't be technically regarded as a "3 card" combo and still accompolish the same thing in the same given scenario?

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket


UR cannot win the game if the opponent has a Combust in hand. This alone is reason enough to not run UR, since RDW and Valakut will probably be two fo the top decks.

Mutagenic Growth says hi to both Combust and Dismember. Try it out, it actually works quite well in practice.


As a Valakut player, I would think you have to have better options than turning your 2-card combo into a 3-card combo. It seems like against either of Valakut/RDW, your opponent's clock is fast enough that waiting to find a 3rd combo piece might not be feasible, especially since you still lose to 2 removal spells (Combust/Bolt, double Bolt, etc...).


Its the same thing as running Dispel to protect the combo from Dismember, counterspells, or other removal.  It is still a 2 card combo that just gives you other options.  That said, I've only actually been running 2 of the Growth.  It comes in handy at times, but you never want multiples.  Plus I'm still running Gitaxian Probe, so I'm not going to just run out the Deceiver blindly.

Probe is better, so you know about the hate. The problem with growth, is that it doesn nothing without the combo, unlike counterspells or discard, so yeah, it does make it very much like a three card combo. It's so much easier to run discard.
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I went 4-0 at my local fnm running the rug just didn't have the Jace in the deck it was still cool to take home the win
I went 4-0 at my local fnm running the rug just didn't have the Jace in the deck it was still cool to take home the win

Is there any recommendations on RU control twin as replacements for Jace seeing as how they will be banned
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