Seriously can't you guys even get your locations correct?

23 posts / 0 new
Last post
Since most of my encounter players will be people who have played in previous seasons with me since I started DMing during Keep on the Borderlands. It would have been really nice if I could have shown my players where on the Nentir Vale map Duponde is located even if it is just off the map. So you've reused the Brindol map from Scales of War for Duponde fine. But based on the description of where the town should be there is already a town in that location called Albridge which is featured in "Reavers of Harkenwold" from the DMs kit.

So Rich spent 150 to 200 hours to create a very good adventure but no one during editing or play testing noticed it's placement is inconsistent with your PoL setting. However, plenty of your players noticed this error, all you need to do is read the comments below the Duponde preview on the site's main page.

You're Quality Control process still needs much work unfortunately.
I think they also reused one of the Albridge maps (or at least a Harken map) for mother Grivelda's House. 
And I just noticed that in the read-aloud text, it puts Duponde on the Nentir River, which is right on top of Fallcrest!
I'm seeing references to the Nentir River, the White River, and King's Road, the three of which never meet.

I'm guessing the Nentir River reference was a mistake and should be White River. That puts Duponde either very close to Harkenwold or just west of the Harken Forest at that dotted path that leads form King's road to Kalton Manor. Though that would take some serious flooding to cross the distance.

With King's Road bridges crossing the river it would have to be just north of Harkenwold which presents two problems:

1) Season 4 talked about the fact that nothing was there between Harkenwold and Hammerfast, thus the need for an expedition.

2) Given the vague descriptions in Season 4 that were also not backed up by a map or geographical references that's the most logical place for the ruins of Inverness to be, per the text.

Why doesn't this kind of thing get published in the adventures and posted here? community.wizards.com/nentir_vale
Come check out and add to the LFR Wiki, part of the Forgotten Realms Wiki.
I uploaded a map to my gallery here on the Wizards Community, but of course I can't get a decent URL to use on a POST to the Wizards Community- very annoying.

Anyway, per the adventure it is on the KING'S ROAD crossing of the WHITE RIVER, a few days north of Harkenwold.  This makes sense if the party is pulling courier duty out of Fallcrest and heading south.  Anyway, that's the map I showed my party so they can make sense of all this...
-Alveric "And the sword that had visited Earth from so far away smote like the falling of thunderbolts; and green sparks rose from the armour, and crimson as sword met sword; and thick elvish blood moved slowly, from wide slits, down the cuirass; and Lirazel gazed in awe and wonder and love; and the combatants edged away fighting into the forest; and branches fell on them hacked off by their fight; and the runes in Alveric's far-travelled sword exulted, and roared at the elf-knight; until in the dark of the wood, amongst branches severed from disenchanted trees, with a blow like that of a thunderbolt riving an oak tree, Alveric slew him."


Why doesn't this kind of thing get published in the adventures and posted here? community.wizards.com/nentir_vale





Because I'm unable to attend or run the Encounter programs at the moment.  (The Borders store I was running the program at closed) Also, keep in mind I’m a volunteer and WotC doesn’t provide me with the information.  Any DMs from March of the Phantom Brigade, who actually possess all of the modules, that  would like to update the Nentir Vale group then please join.  After you join feel free to update the wiki.  Or send the information to me & I will be more than happy to do it for everyone.  Or if you have extra copies you can always donate them to me. I’ll have no trouble reimbursing people for the postage.  



Remember, no matter where ever you go, there you are. --Shaundakul
Hunh? Are you WotC_Huscarl?
Come check out and add to the LFR Wiki, part of the Forgotten Realms Wiki.
Hunh? Are you WotC_Huscarl?




No, I'm a moderator for the Nentir Vale group.  My mistake, I should have mentioned that in the above post.  I need more coffee.
Remember, no matter where ever you go, there you are. --Shaundakul
My assertion is that if WotC wants Nentir Vale to be the core campaign setting, adds locations regularly in official products, and run this community for their users, they should take the time to establish clear and regularly-updated area maps both in every product that takes place in the Vale and on their official group for the campaign setting. That way players and DMs always have a reference point for placing where everything happens in relation to everything else.
 
As a comparison, Del Rey regularly adds additional novels to their Star Wars line, but you can always find an updated timeline in the front of every novel upon it's release and the most up-to-date timeline is always available on their website. Customers are never left wondering when exactly something happens in relation to everything else. The products make more sense, more people follow the product line, more people grab products to fill in gaps that they might not otherwise buy.
 
And it's not like maps are a new concept for D&D that WotC might not have got the hang of yet . . .


Come check out and add to the LFR Wiki, part of the Forgotten Realms Wiki.
I agree that if WotC wants us to play in the Nentir Vale then give us more "official" info. 

I think they could do this though the group / wiki and though DDI and books. Most, if not all, of the other official campaign settings have guides and source material why not this one? 

I also find it odd that in the official list of campaign settings the Nentir Vale is not listed. 

I love that they are putting the Encounters seasons there but after the season is over can they not update the group or a wiki for folks that can't / don't play encounters?

Just a simple though or two from someone that is a DM who runs both encounter and a home game in the Vale.
>>I also find it odd that in the official list of campaign settings the Nentir Vale is not listed.

Well, Nentir Vale is unique in that it's designed to be placed inside other campaign settings if the DM likes. In FR, for instance, it is officially placed in the Dalelands. It could easily be placed in a number of countries in Khorvaire in Eberron. And so on.

I'm more concerned about keeping straight what's inside the Vale for players that ARE buying everyhitng and getting increasingly confused about what happened where.



Come check out and add to the LFR Wiki, part of the Forgotten Realms Wiki.
>>I also find it odd that in the official list of campaign settings the Nentir Vale is not listed.

Well, Nentir Vale is unique in that it's designed to be placed inside other campaign settings if the DM likes. In FR, for instance, it is officially placed in the Dalelands. It could easily be placed in a number of countries in Khorvaire in Eberron. And so on.

I'm more concerned about keeping straight what's inside the Vale for players that ARE buying everyhitng and getting increasingly confused about what happened where.




>>
html_removed
Nentir Vale is unique in that it's designed to be placed inside other campaign settings<<

Well thats something I did not know LOL.

That kind of makes my point (and your also) in that if I have read all the "Official" info on the Vale and never took away that it can fit in other setting like FR or Eberron then they are not doing the best job giving us as players or DM's info.

I would love for WotC to set the encounters version of the Nentir Vale in a full campaign world so we can flesh it out if we wanted to.

I know regulars at my table would like that.


 
I found this interesting, from the live chat with Rich Baker:

Actually, Duponde lies south of the Nentir Vale by several days' travel. It's in the Barony of Therund, on the way toward Sarthel. So it's a little peek outside the southern borders of the Nentir Vale.


Looks like things got changed in editing. This makes a lot more sense.
To Occam:  That was me he told that to.  I thought the exact same thing, when I read the material the posted online the very next day.......Maybe he went into DM mode and started shooting from the hip....either way, I enjoyed week one! 

We play at Labyrinth Games in Washington, D.C. www.labyrinthgameshop.com/  

There were two completely packed tables!  Everyone seemed to have a great time!  I'm looking forward to next week!!!

I found this interesting, from the live chat with Rich Baker:

Actually, Duponde lies south of the Nentir Vale by several days' travel. It's in the Barony of Therund, on the way toward Sarthel. So it's a little peek outside the southern borders of the Nentir Vale.


Looks like things got changed in editing. This makes a lot more sense.



Did he clarify what river it's supposed to be on? The text (including the Duponde article) mostly reference the White, which is clearly entirely within the Nentir Vale. That introductory paragraph is the only thing that references the Nentir as far as I can tell. And who knows what rivers are just outside the Vale. Though I supose we'll find out in June. =\

Come check out and add to the LFR Wiki, part of the Forgotten Realms Wiki.
And who knows what rivers are just outside the Vale.

It looks like there are a couple nearby, although everything we know seems a bit contradictory.
(For those needing orientation: Nerath, upper left corner).

If Duponde's on the King's Road/White River near Harkenwold, then it's as seen here, although on the north side so that washed out bridges are an obstacle.

If the city's in the Barony of Therund, then the characters have not been travelling along the King's Road, and the read aloud text at the top of page 7 makes sense in that the recent flooding is in the Nentir River, and not "in the Nentir" as in one of it's tributaries (which might be less prone to flooding). However, our couriers have opted for the longer – although perhaps safer – route to their destination.

If our heroes have been travelling on the King's Road, then they have taken the shorter route and are headed in the rough direction of a major river in Sarthel – although we do not know where Sarthel proper is located, which could pose problems if a river crossing is not required.

If Duponde's on the King's Road/White River near Harkenwold, then it's as seen here, although on the north side so that washed out bridges are an obstacle.



First off, thanks for providing a proper link to the map I slapped "Duponde" onto.  Sorry about putting the city on the wrong side of the river, it should be the north side, otherwise the washed-out bridges wouldn't let the party into Duponde in the first place!

I'm going to say it's this location though, based on the opening box text: "...You've been traveling the King's Road for a week, heading south to the city of (New) Sarthel with correspondence from Lord Markelhay, the Lord Warden of Fallcrest."  That seems to be pretty specific, even though it's contradicted in the next paragraph by "the city's two bridges had been damaged by recent flooding in the Nentir River."  

My assumption is that's a typo and should say "White River."  It's the simplest explanation provided by posters here. 
-Alveric "And the sword that had visited Earth from so far away smote like the falling of thunderbolts; and green sparks rose from the armour, and crimson as sword met sword; and thick elvish blood moved slowly, from wide slits, down the cuirass; and Lirazel gazed in awe and wonder and love; and the combatants edged away fighting into the forest; and branches fell on them hacked off by their fight; and the runes in Alveric's far-travelled sword exulted, and roared at the elf-knight; until in the dark of the wood, amongst branches severed from disenchanted trees, with a blow like that of a thunderbolt riving an oak tree, Alveric slew him."
If Duponde's on the King's Road/White River near Harkenwold, then it's as seen here, although on the north side so that washed out bridges are an obstacle.



First off, thanks for providing a proper link to the map I slapped "Duponde" onto.  Sorry about putting the city on the wrong side of the river, it should be the north side, otherwise the washed-out bridges wouldn't let the party into Duponde in the first place!

I'm going to say it's this location though, based on the opening box text: "...You've been traveling the King's Road for a week, heading south to the city of (New) Sarthel with correspondence from Lord Markelhay, the Lord Warden of Fallcrest."  That seems to be pretty specific, even though it's contradicted in the next paragraph by "the city's two bridges had been damaged by recent flooding in the Nentir River."  

My assumption is that's a typo and should say "White River."  It's the simplest explanation provided by posters here. 



Unfortunately, Albridge which is featured in "Reavers of Harkenwold" from the DM's kit is already at that exact location on your map.

Unfortunately, Albridge which is featured in "Reavers of Harkenwold" from the DM's kit is already at that exact location on your map.


Nope, the events in "Dark Legacy" take place several years after "Reavers," and in between the two adventures a curious incident occurred:

"Albridge" was a town literally "all-bridge," with over a dozen spans across the White River (it looked like a dozen Ponte Vecchios) comprising the mercantile heart of the town.  Unfortunately, the merchants kept building ever-more elaborate structures on top of the bridges, despite many warnings from the Stonemasons Guild.  But the prosperous merchants of Albridge ignored them and their incessant pleas for coin to maintain the bridges, so the stonemasons left. 

Sure enough, a few years later the White River had a massive flood that washed out all but the bare structure of two of the bridges, and turned the surrounding fords into a shallow, marshy lake.  For years afterwards, travelers would ask what happened to the magnificent bridges of Albridge, to be answered by the locals "dey went into de pond."  Soon both locals and visitors took to referring to the once-waterlogged town as "De Pond," or Duponde.

And that's the REAL story of what happened...I swear!

-Alveric "And the sword that had visited Earth from so far away smote like the falling of thunderbolts; and green sparks rose from the armour, and crimson as sword met sword; and thick elvish blood moved slowly, from wide slits, down the cuirass; and Lirazel gazed in awe and wonder and love; and the combatants edged away fighting into the forest; and branches fell on them hacked off by their fight; and the runes in Alveric's far-travelled sword exulted, and roared at the elf-knight; until in the dark of the wood, amongst branches severed from disenchanted trees, with a blow like that of a thunderbolt riving an oak tree, Alveric slew him."
I'm going with Alveric's story.
Unfortunately, Albridge which is featured in "Reavers of Harkenwold" from the DM's kit is already at that exact location on your map.


Nope, the events in "Dark Legacy" take place several years after "Reavers," and in between the two adventures a curious incident occurred:

"Albridge" was a town literally "all-bridge," with over a dozen spans across the White River (it looked like a dozen Ponte Vecchios) comprising the mercantile heart of the town.  Unfortunately, the merchants kept building ever-more elaborate structures on top of the bridges, despite many warnings from the Stonemasons Guild.  But the prosperous merchants of Albridge ignored them and their incessant pleas for coin to maintain the bridges, so the stonemasons left. 

Sure enough, a few years later the White River had a massive flood that washed out all but the bare structure of two of the bridges, and turned the surrounding fords into a shallow, marshy lake.  For years afterwards, travelers would ask what happened to the magnificent bridges of Albridge, to be answered by the locals "dey went into de pond."  Soon both locals and visitors took to referring to the once-waterlogged town as "De Pond," or Duponde.

And that's the REAL story of what happened...I swear!




You should be doing PR for WotC.

No, I don't like this. I've told my players they traveled south into the barony of Therund and there Dupond is on the shores of the Nentir River.

A little note, now that we're 2/3 through Season 5: The box text in Chapter 3 refers specifically to the adventurers heading west on a road overlooking the White River, not the Nentir River, which is yet more evidence that Duponde was placed right smack where "Reavers of the Harkenwold" puts Albridge.  So I'm sticking with "Albridge became Duponde" because that makes the most sense in the context of this season's adventure.

But this little exercise on the location of Duponde, along with all the products detailing the "D&D World" (modules, Nentir Vale, Conquest of Nerath, etc.) brings up another question.  Wasn't this specifically designed to be a generic campaign world because players and DMs don't like being burdened by all the "fluff" background lore/history and the onerous continuity requirements?  I seem to recall that was the rationale for not using any of the previously established D&D campaign worlds (Greyhawk/ Mystara/ the Known World/ etc.) for 4th-edition products.  I know it was the excuse given for gutting the Forgotten Realms in 4th Edition.

So for now I'm going to put Duponde where the Legacy of Evard says it is, because it and the background information in "Reavers" doesn't really matter.  Maybe I'll put the Tomb of Horrors and White Plume Mountain on either side of it, since everything in this generic D&D world is freely interchangeable.  Maybe I'll care more about the pesky details if WotC gives up the charade that players and DMs actually like generic campaign worlds, and gives a name to this increasingly lore-heavy 4th-Edition campaign world.

-Alveric "And the sword that had visited Earth from so far away smote like the falling of thunderbolts; and green sparks rose from the armour, and crimson as sword met sword; and thick elvish blood moved slowly, from wide slits, down the cuirass; and Lirazel gazed in awe and wonder and love; and the combatants edged away fighting into the forest; and branches fell on them hacked off by their fight; and the runes in Alveric's far-travelled sword exulted, and roared at the elf-knight; until in the dark of the wood, amongst branches severed from disenchanted trees, with a blow like that of a thunderbolt riving an oak tree, Alveric slew him."
Sign In to post comments