NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author)
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
L16 Human Thief24 Dex-- Gritty Sergeant Background: Rapier prof, +1 init-- Feats: Light Blade Expertise, Surprising Charge, Backstabber, Nimble Blade, Silvery Glow, Cyclone Warrior, Kulkor Arms Student, Wintertouched, Lasting Frost, Deft Blade, Power Attack-- Paragon Path: Kulkor Arms Master-- Items: +3 Frost Rapier, Horned Helmet (Paragon), Syberis Shard of Merciless Cold (Paragon), Gloves of Ice (Paragon), Bracers of Mighty Striking (Paragon)-- CA from Frostcheese-- Charge from Shift 2 with Unbalancing Trick-- Prone from Unbalancing TrickTo-Hit: 8 lvl + 7 dex + 3 prof + 3 enh + 2 exp + 3 CA + 1 charge + 1 WT - 2 PA = +26 vs Ref 28 = 5% miss // 90% hit // 5% critCharge: 7 dex + 4 finesse + 2 exp + 3 enh + 3 feat + 2d8 rapier + 5 vul + 3 Shard + 2 GoI + 2d6 HH + 4 item + 3d8 SA + 4 PA [+ 3d6 crit] = 66.5 normal // 99.5 critMBA: 7 dex + 4 finesse + 2 exp + 3 enh + 3 feat + 1d8 rapier + 5 vul + 3 Shard + 2 GoI + 4 item + 4 PA [+ 3d6 crit] = 41.5 normal // 55.5 crit=> 0.9 * 66.5 + 0.05 * 99.5 + 0.95 * (0.85 * 41.5 + 0.05 * 55.5) = 100.97 DPROh borg, you remember to remove the CA / Ch tags from my L1 / L6 Thiefs ? ;)
First time poster her, but I believe I have a king candidate.Level 1 human Scout.Multiclass ranger two blade warrior, wield carrikals in each hand.Feats: two blade warrior; Weapon Focus(axe)This build assumes combat advantage, via flanking. Dex (20) +5To Hit: Dex(5) + Prof(2) + Charge(1) +CA(2) = 10(must roll a 5 to hit) 1-4 = 20% miss chanceDamage: d8(b2) + dex(5) + Spinning axe mastery(2) + aspect of the lurking spider (2) + weapon focus (1) = average 15.5 Crit 18First attack, .75 chace to hit + .05 to crit second attack .70 to hit, .05 to crit. = (11.625 + .9) + (10.85 + .9) = 24.275 dpr using only melee basic attacks and at wills. obviously this could be increased somewhat for 1 round, using the encounter power.thoughts?
(Chance to Hit – Chance to Crit)*(Damage hit) +(Chance to crit)(damage crit)+(Damage Miss)(Chance to Miss) = DPRAlso assume you are hitting NADs at Level +12 or 42. This build hits reflex, so target's reflex will be 42 for all DPR calculations.
DPRKingContestant, level 30Dragonborn, Sorcerer, Argentum Alliance, Avatar of IoBuild: Dragon SorcererSpell Source: Dragon MagicDragon Soul: Dragon Soul LightningLevel1Rules: Racial Ability Bonus (Charisma)Level1Rules: Racial Ability Bonus (Strength)
Dragonborn Racial Power: Dragon BreathDragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath StrengthDragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath LightningPowerful Breath: Powerful Breath StrengthTrusted Spellcasting: Dragon Breath
FINAL ABILITY SCORESStr 30, Con 14, Dex 12, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 25.
STARTING ABILITY SCORESStr 18, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 14.
AC: 43 Fort: 46 Reflex: 36 Will: 43HP: 171 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 44
TRAINED SKILLSArcana +27, Bluff +27, Insight +20, Intimidate +27, Athletics +30
UNTRAINED SKILLSAcrobatics +16, Diplomacy +22, Dungeoneering +15, Endurance +17, Heal +15, History +18, Nature +15, Perception +15, Religion +16, Stealth +16, Streetwise +22, Thievery +16
FEATSLevel 1: Ancient SoulLevel 2: Nusemnee's AtonementLevel 4: Draconic SpellcasterLevel 6: Daunting BreathLevel 8: Cyclone WarriorLevel 10: Dragonclaw MarkLevel 11: War WizardryLevel 12: Thundering BreathLevel 14: Resounding Thunder - Technically DPR Kings only cares about single target, so if I could drop this for more damage I totally would. Problem is I don't see another damage dealer that does as much.Level 16: Hurl Breath - It seems like I should be able to drop this, but I can't, so I won't.Level 18: Draconic ArroganceLevel 20: Echoes of ThunderLevel 21: Powerful BreathLevel 22: Sorcerous Flux - Useless due to different PP. Can be replaced with Arcane AdmixtureLevel 24: Oncoming Storm - Over the +hit needed for DPR Kings, can be replaced with Burning Breath. Both add together for a total of + ~5 DPR for the total round.Level 26: Mark of StormLevel 28: Empowered Dragon BreathLevel 30: Trusted Spellcasting
For our purposes, this section is pointless.
ITEMS - Batman's tool belt would be ashamed, this is a list to choose from, not a list to have everything from.
Arkhosian Scepter +6, Ring of the Dragonborn Emperor (paragon tier), Ring of the Radiant Storm (paragon tier), Thunderwave Staff +6, Queen's Staff +6, Ring of Free Time (epic tier) (4), Robe of the Archfiend Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +6, Trollhide Bracers (epic tier), Wyrmtouched Amulet +6, Robe of Defying Storms Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +6, Great Hero's Gauntlets (epic tier), Gloves of the Wandering Star (paragon tier), Lightning Dagger +6, Sash of Regeneration (epic tier), Stone of Storms (paragon tier), Crown of the Brilliant Sun (paragon tier), Fey Warrior's Boots (epic tier), Many-Fingered Gloves (paragon tier), Mummified Hand (epic tier), Ring of Invigoration (paragon tier), Spark Slippers (paragon tier), Flame Bracers (epic tier), Bracelet of the Radiant Storm (paragon tier)
First Breath of the Encounter:
Half Level - +15Level Adjustment (Dragon Breath Racial Feature) - +6Base Dragonbreath Hit (Strength) - +10Draconic Spellcaster - +3Arkhosian Scepter - +6
Total: +40 vs Reflex
Damage:Empowered Breath – 3d10Strength Mod (Dragon Magic Class Feature) – 10Level Adjustment (Dragon Magic Class Feature – 4Argentum Alliance - 2d6Powerful Breath (Strength) – 10Draconic Spellcaster – 3Dragonclaw Mark – 10Draconic Arrogance – 10Gifts for the Queen (Queen's Staff, Crown of the Brilliant Sun, Spark Slippers)* – 3Arkhosian Scepter – 6
Total before Forced movement: 3d10 +2d6 + 56Spark Slippers (Charisma Modifier) – 7*3 = 21
Total After forced movement: 3d10+2d6+77
Average Hit: 3*(5.5) + 2*(3.5) + 77 = 100.5Crit Damage: 119 +3d6Crit Average: 129.5Miss Average: 50.25Thus DPR for my initial breath is:Breath 1 +40 vs Reflex = 10% miss, 5% crit
(Chance to Hit – Chance to Crit)*(Damage hit) +(Chance to crit)(damage crit)+(Damage Miss)(Chance to Miss) = (.85)*(100.5) + (.05)(129.5) + (.1)(50.25) = 85.425 + 6.475 + 5.025 = 96.925 DPRAfter the initial breath all breaths for the remainder of the encounter (assuming you keep your mouth open) are at +3 hit [Avatar of Io (+2) and Oncoming Storm (+1)] and +5 damage [Avatar of Io (+2) and Echoes of Thunder (+3)]. This changes things for breath to into this formula with these values:
Average Hit: 3*(5.5) + 2*(3.5) + 77 + 5= 105.5Crit Average: 134.5Average Miss: 52.75
(Chance to Hit – Chance to Crit)*(Damage hit) +(Chance to crit)(damage crit)+(Damage Miss)(Chance to Miss) = (.9)*(105.5) + (.05)(134.5) +(.05)(52.75) = 94.95 + 6.725 + 2.6375 = 104.3125 DPRNow remember this is all as a minor action, so lets take those values and kick them up a notch. Your initial turn will have you dealing 305.55 DPR. Every turn after that will have you dealing 312.9375 DPRIf you get a milestone this damage really skyrockets. 4 Rings of Free time give you 4 extra minor actions. That adds up very very quickly. 7 breaths in one turn is 722.8 for your initial turn and 730.1875 DPR for every turn thereafter.Also remember that all of this is being done as a big burst (Burst 3 in 10), not single target.Without using the rings / Using your old rings from paragon until you get to a milestone makes you do a bit more damage on the non-milestone rounds. For this we assume you are not using any Rings of Free time (although you can still wear the gloves and get one without it being too terribly expensive) but instead are opting for 1x Ring of the Radiant Storm and 1x Ring of the Dragonborn Emperor.
First Breath:Total After forced movement (See above): 3d10+2d6+77Average Hit: 3*(5.5)+ 5 (Ring of Dragonborn Emperor) + 2.86 (Ring of Radiant)+ 2*(3.5) + 77 = 108.36Crit: 119 +3d6 + 5 (Ring of Dragonborn Emp)Crit Average: 129.5 + 5 (Ring of Dragonborn Emp)Miss: 50.25 +2.5 (Ring of Dragonborn Emp) + 1.93 (Ring of Radiant Storm)
(Chance to Hit – Chance to Crit)*(Damage hit) +(Chance to crit)(damage crit)+(Damage Miss)(Chance to Miss) = (.85)*(108.36) + (.05)(134.5) + (.1)(52.75) = 92.106 + 6.725 + 5.275 = 104.106 DPR
Average Hit: 3*(5.5) +2.86 (Ring of Radiant) +5 (Ring of Dragonborn Emp)+ 2*(3.5) + 77 + 5(2ndbreath)= 113.36Crit: 124 +3d6 + 5 (Ring of Dragonborn Emp)Crit Average: 134.5 +5 (Ring of Dragonborn Emp)Miss: 52.75 +2.5 (Ring of Dragonborn Emp) + 1.93 (Ring of Radiant Storm) = 57.18
(Chance to Hit – Chance to Crit)*(Damage hit) +(Chance to crit)(damage crit)+(Damage Miss)(Chance to Miss) = (.9)*(113.36) + (.05)(139.5) +(.05)(57.18) = 102.024 + 6.975 + 2.859 = 111.848 DPR
This gives us 327.802 for the initial round and 335.544 for all subsequent rounds.Now, if you wanted to go Nova, switch to Ninefold PP and (possibly) go to Master of Moments EP and have one turn where you are pulling off 11 breaths in one turn. (3 normally, 1 free from ninefold, 3 from AP, 4 from Rings).
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Optimized net user. Moderate.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. One of THE most abusive character in 4e.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.
Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
Here's my "class-less" striker @ 105.5
172.84 DPR Stormfury(30th) by dragon4e with slides, subzero and CAI've noticed the wizard build that's all the rage. I noticed though it's one target and worse staggering only apply to weapon attacks. I've been thinking about how I could do burst slides and then I said centered breath and mark of storm. Spark slippers wasnt exactly viable for monks if I wanted to use rushing cleats. I needed a damaging zone then I found Lightning Fury pp.
Here's my "class-less" striker @ 105.5Updated. 274.11225 Without a class.Edit: it's at 303 now, but i still need to figure out how much a ring of radiant storm adds.
I've got a new candidate for the Level 1 list.
Revenant (Dwarf) ScoutLevel 1
Class Features:Attack FinesseSpinning Axe Mastery
Feat:Dwarven Weapon Training
Powers:Aspect of the Charging RamAspect of the Dancing Serpent
If we can manage some tactical teamwork to allows us a Charge and Combat Advantage, every turn, we have top-tier L1 DPR.
MBA:Attack: +10 --> +5 Dex, +2 proficiency, +2 CA, +1 ChargeDamage: 1d10(Brutal 2)+11 --> 5 Dex, +2 DWT, +2 Spinning Axe, +2 StanceAvgDmg: 17.5 hit, 21 crit(0.75*17.5)+(0.05*21) = 14.175
DWA:Attack: +9 --> +5 Dex, +2 proficiency, +2 CADamage: 1d8+9 --> +5 Dex, +2 DWT, +2 Spinning AxeAvgDmg: 13.5 hit, 17 crit(0.70*13.5)+(0.05*17) = 10.3
MBA + (0.80*DWA) = 22.415
Even without CA, our damage is still huge if we keep Charging, turn after turn.
MBA:Attack: +8 --> +5 Dex, +2 proficiency, +1 ChargeDamage: 1d10(Brutal 2)+11 --> 5 Dex, +2 DWT, +2 Spinning Axe, +2 StanceAvgDmg: 17.5 hit, 21 crit(0.65*17.5)+(0.05*21) = 12.425
MBA + (0.70*DWA) = 19.635
If we can't guarantee the Charge, we can always pick off lone baddies.
MBA:Attack: +8 --> +5 Dex, +2 proficiency, +1 stanceDamage: 1d10(Brutal 2)+10 --> 5 Dex, +2 DWT, +2 Spinning Axe, +1 StanceAvgDmg: 16.5 hit, 20 crit(0.65*16.5)+(0.05*20) = 11.725
DWA:Attack: +7 --> +5 Dex, +2 proficiencyDamage: 1d8+9 --> +5 Dex, +2 DWT, +2 Spinning AxeAvgDmg: 13.5 hit, 17 crit(0.60*13.5)+(0.05*17) = 8.95
MBA + (0.70*DWA) = 17.99
And if all else fails, our regular ol' DPR is still pretty rockin'.
MBA + (0.65*DWA) = 16.0675
EDIT: Crap. Just realized I made an error-- DWA only comes into play if the MBA hits. Fixed my math to account for this.
Charge attack DPR = .99*noncrit + .19*crit + .99*slippers=70.5*.99+162*.19+34.65=69.795+30.78+34.65=135.225
Yes. Hunter's Quarry is maximized on a critical hit.
You misread the rules out of context. The entry you are quoting refers specifically to "extra damage you deal when you score a critical hit", not "all forms of extra damage".
Yes. Hunter's Quarry is maximized on a critical hit.I hate to correct you LDB, but I think you are wrong about Hunter's Quarry being maximized on a critical.Per the Compendium, "Once per round, when you hit your quarry with an attack, the attack deals extra damage based on your level."Per the compendium, when you roll a critical hit: "Extra Damage: Magic weapons and implements, as well as high crit weapons, can increase the damage you deal when you score a critical hit. If this extra damage is a die roll, it’s not automatically maximum damage; you add the result of the roll."Perhaps there is a ruling I have not seen, or perhaps I misread your post out of context?